Can any one help? or has this happened to you?

[paddy555]

. I need for someone with a legal understanding to help.. and there's no one. its crap

that is not the case. Have you followed Peter Natt's advice in post 42.
If you google NFU and solicitors then you will find that there are specific legal firms that they refer their members to. I think from memory there are 11 firms. I think NFU members get 15 mins free advice and then pay for the rest at a discount. You will obviously have to pay but at least they should have agricultural depts. All you have to do is chose one of the firms.

Something about this doesn't really add up. Someone you have warned several times before had their dog kicked and reported the incident to HSE. I wonder if there is more to this? presumably the dog walker contacted you, did they want their vet's fees paid? Was there confrontation? what did they report to HSE, did their story escalate to them being chased. HSE would like some fencing and better signs. There is a difference between what they would like/advise which you may be able to come to an agreement with them to the situation whereby you are being fined for failing to correctly do something.
Had there been earlier contact with HSE and advice given, had there been earlier dog/walker incidents.

From what you describe HSE could simply rock up to any farmer in the country with a footpath through their field and fine them for it not being fenced. I wonder if there is more going on here.

It is not clear as to whether this is a case of HSE trying it on to recover their costs or alternatively there genuinely is a problem.

 

[YorksG]

Op, send a subject information request to the HSE. That way you will be able to see the original complaint, all be it with the complainers name redacted, that way you can see what was being claimed and how many complaints there have been. You will also see any email contact between departments and with the complainant, this is very useful when you are battling with such departments.

 

[paddy555]

Op, send a subject information request to the HSE. That way you will be able to see the original complaint, all be it with the complainers name redacted, that way you can see what was being claimed and how many complaints there have been. You will also see any email contact between departments and with the complainant, this is very useful when you are battling with such departments.

whilst you are doing that ask for a copy of the notes of the meeting you had when the HSE inspector visited. If you, or anyone else, deal with a government department always ask for a copy of the notes of the interview.
At least then you can be sure what you said was correctly recorded and also their replies/advice,

In the government dept that I worked for we automatically sent copies of the interview notes and asked the individual to sign and return a copy if they were correct or to advise discrepancies. At least then everyone moves on from the same understanding

 

[Tessflower42]

that is not the case. Have you followed Peter Natt's advice in post 42.
If you google NFU and solicitors then you will find that there are specific legal firms that they refer their members to. I think from memory there are 11 firms. I think NFU members get 15 mins free advice and then pay for the rest at a discount. You will obviously have to pay but at least they should have agricultural depts. All you have to do is chose one of the firms.

Something about this doesn't really add up. Someone you have warned several times before had their dog kicked and reported the incident to HSE. I wonder if there is more to this? presumably the dog walker contacted you, did they want their vet's fees paid? Was there confrontation? what did they report to HSE, did their story escalate to them being chased. HSE would like some fencing and better signs. There is a difference between what they would like/advise which you may be able to come to an agreement with them to the situation whereby you are being fined for failing to correctly do something.
Had there been earlier contact with HSE and advice given, had there been earlier dog/walker incidents.

From what you describe HSE could simply rock up to any farmer in the country with a footpath through their field and fine them for it not being fenced. I wonder if there is more going on here.

It is not clear as to whether this is a case of HSE trying it on to recover their costs or alternatively there genuinely is a problem.

hi, i have rang the nfu they will not give me any solicitors numbers, i am with nfu for my insurance, with public liability, i have also found out that even if i had legal cover, i may not be covered, there is a new insurance they offer which would of covered me but they normally offer that to big business, but they are dumbfounded by this too, they have never heard of such a case as this.
No the dog walker didn't contact me, the first thing i heard was when the HSE rang me 3 weeks after it had happened! no other incidents, no confrontation, i have put up signs which HSE say its good practice, but it isnt the law unless its a bull. because i read into it, well before this had happened, just to warn people so they keep their dogs on the leads because its been a nightmare with people coming and going, off the footpaths and pleasing them selves.
no earlier contact with them, first time.
the quote you have said HSE could rock up at any farm. Yes if there is an incident, yep.. they want everyone to be wrapped in a bubble. no one has to worry about common sense. The world is a shambles. i suggest if you have footpaths and horses or cows or sheep or goats, this will happen to you. i welcome you to our farm and have a look and see what happens on a daily basis..

 

[Tessflower42]

I will keep you all updated what is happening, I have now asked the HSE to send me the original compliant. I have also asked for the copy of the meetings. I shall now get in contact with the highways and see if they made any notes when they were here with them.
This farm is only a hobby, no money is made here and I have to get on with my own work.. But thank you all to those who have given me helpful points. keep my fingers crossed I will get somewhere. I will keep you posted.

 

[paddy555]

hi, i have rang the nfu they will not give me any solicitors numbers,.

here is the list.
https://www.nfuonline.com/membership/your-nfu-member-services/nfu-legal-panel/

 

[Tessflower42]

here is the list.
https://www.nfuonline.com/membership/your-nfu-member-services/nfu-legal-panel/

Thank you. I have just called the number from you. They say because i am not a member, even though i have my insurance through them, they can't help. Also even if i joined, they wont be able to help, because this incident happened before i joined. but good try! but i thought this was the case because i had already called my local NFU office.

 

[Goldenstar]

Just contact one of the solicitors on the NFU list directly .

 

[Tessflower42]

Just contact one of the solicitors on the NFU list directly .

i have, only waiting for 1 more to get back to me, none of the others can help me!

 

[paddy555]

Thank you. I have just called the number from you. They say because i am not a member, even though i have my insurance through them, they can't help. Also even if i joined, they wont be able to help, because this incident happened before i joined. but good try! but i thought this was the case because i had already called my local NFU office.

of course they cannot help if you are not a member. You will have to deal with a solicitor directly as any member of the public would have to. It is irrelevant if you are a NFU member. You are not calling them in that capacity but as an individual who requires legal advice. The list is simply solicitors who will have farming knowledge. If you have contacted every firm on the list them I would be amazed if not a single one can offer legal farming advice.

 

[Tessflower42]

of course they cannot help if you are not a member. You will have to deal with a solicitor directly as any member of the public would have to. It is irrelevant if you are a NFU member. You are not calling them in that capacity but as an individual who requires legal advice. The list is simply solicitors who will have farming knowledge. If you have contacted every firm on the list them I would be amazed if not a single one can offer legal farming advice.

it is madness isnt it. I have just had a reply, and someone from Clarke Willmott, hopes he can help, but needs to speak to others, I will find out on Monday.. Any how its been a long few months, and there seems to be a glimmer of hope. so off for a drink. Have a good weekend all, and thank you again all for your help.

 

[GreyMane]

Oh dear, OP. I do feel for you.

Apparently HSE are losing money because it costs them more to do inspections than they receive in fines, the shortfall in 2017/18 was £1.9m. I'd imagine this makes them rather motivated to find breaches... they put the fees up by nearly 20% last year.

Friends who deal with building contractors say it is well known that if the inspectors turn up at your site, they WILL find SOMETHING that means they can charge!

As far as liability goes, out of this nightmare could come something useful in that IF one of the wandering eejits ever tried to claim against you (God forbid) for their own carelessness, you could say "We HAVE done everything required by law to mitigate safety risks; the HSE have told us we are compliant so go away unless you can prove otherwise". Part of me is surprised you haven't been sued for the cost of replacing a gold plated show collie... £4000 for an inspection may seem a lot but losing a PI claim can cost 10 times that.

Web search turned up this insurance company who say they offer:
"specialist Risk Management advice to help you ensure you are meeting the HSE’s standards"
and insurance that covers the cost of HSE inspections, though not fines.
Too late for this time perhaps, but might stop lightning striking twice?
https://www.mcclarroninsurance.com/news/hse-fee-protection/

 

[Tessflower42]

Just contact one of the solicitors on the NFU list directly .

I have, the last and final solicitor one I tried got back to me at 5.17 on Friday, said they would get back to me first thing today!!

 

[blitznbobs]

It’s a pity you didn’t shoot the dog when you had the chance... dogs aren’t allowed to worry livestock... ask them about a counter claim against the dog owner and see if they back off

 

[Gingerwitch]

It's also a requirement under the h and s act that you take reasonable care of your self. But I assume they are not acknowledging this as he is a member of the general public. I too would ask for the footpath to be re routed to a boundary and stick 5foot fence panels along it. General public do not deserve a decent view x x