Can anyone help RSPCA identify those in this video?

Sarah sum1 said:
But it is neither a cow or a pig. And who would use one on a dog!? and what for! I bet you anything that DEFRA wouldn't permit the use of a cattle prod on a dog!
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But they DO allow electric shock collars...

Much of a difference? Let me see, two pins apply electric shocks at the requirement of a human pushing a button to repremand bad behaviour...
 
Serenity087 said:
But they DO allow electric shock collars...

Much of a difference? Let me see, two pins apply electric shocks at the requirement of a human pushing a button to repremand bad behaviour...
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Gah, all this electrical equipment is beyond me. But will be looking into the cattle prods for use on future boyfriends. :D Possibly the electric shock collar also :p
 
But electric collars are probably going to get banned too.
Never used one myself but I know a couple of dogs who would be dead without them.
Better getting run over, shot, or the needle instead of a pop of current, or GOSH, the buzz setting.

Also, pressing a button to reprimand bad behaviour is not the way to use an electric collar, unless your timing is perfect.

It's to say 'hey!' and once you have attention, you use a positive reinforcement.
 
Mike007 said:
Where they can safely graze with all the fluffy bunnies.
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I have lurked on here for a few years now and always read your posts with interest and respect however that is a ridiculous judgement to make! You know nothing of me and whilst I don't have to defend my opinion on here I can assure you there is nothing fluffy about any bunnies anywhere near me or my horses :D

ETA actually if thats your definition of fluffy I'll happily be a bunny if my horses are safe in their fields and not out on the roads or something. What a daft thing to say!!
 
..well i can say i must be a horse whisperer..... horse out of field after 9 years...has been broken before rebacked 2 months....never seen a box or wagon.....rope halter n hand full treats.....20 mins first day on box....2 mins second day on box travelled came off no sweat etc......i gt to say i wud like to meet these girls and shove the prod where the sun dnt shine....no wonder so many horses are classed as dangerous etc....they must be so sick of humans treating them like ****....i believe u only get out what you put in....putting in this training can only bring out an aggressive unwilling animal.
what a shame the horse didnt land on her (unprotected) head it may have nocked some sense into her !
 
It just amazes me all the people who are so up in arms at this post have to resort to name calling and being very rude.

I am pretty darn sure that all the people who think the RSPCAs involvement is unnecessary dont have a cattle prod in their grooming box so why the upset?

Im all for a good debate but when people start a slanging match they know they are losing the arguement.

Dark horse you have lost it big time on here is that why you have started another thread ,especially as its past your bed time.
 
Sarah sum1 said:
Gah, all this electrical equipment is beyond me. But will be looking into the cattle prods for use on future boyfriends. :D Possibly the electric shock collar also :p
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Mum and Dad had hours of entertainment with the dogs collar. Well, Dad did.

"Here, test this, I don't think it works"
"OOOOOOWWWWW"
"nah, it's definitely broken..."
"OOW OW OWW OWWW OWWW OOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW"

Pretty sure thats not legal either ;)

Back to dogs, we had an electric fence (would be a shame if they were banned for dogs, NO different to horses AND they buzz a warning when you get too close!!!) and a collar. Dog soon worked out collar had a range so if anything just encouraged him to run away twice as fast... But the fence worked a treat!
Damn brittanies and their brains :(
 
deicinmerlyn said:
I feel sickened and saddened that people think it is acceptable to use an electric prod on a horse to load it and then justify it by giving examples of it's use on other animals.

The horse in this video is probably well on the road to being labelled a problem horse, which will be entirely 'man made' ruined like so many others from ignorant cruel handling.
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here here.....totally agree
 
minigal said:
I have lurked on here for a few years now and always read your posts with interest and respect however that is a ridiculous judgement to make! You know nothing of me and whilst I don't have to defend my opinion on here I can assure you there is nothing fluffy about any bunnies anywhere near me or my horses :D

ETA actually if thats your definition of fluffy I'll happily be a bunny if my horses are safe in their fields and not out on the roads or something. What a daft thing to say!!
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Echo this.

It appears fashionable on here to call anyone who disagrees with cruelty or poor horsemanship 'fluffy bunnies'
 
horseandshoes77 said:
..well i can say i must be a horse whisperer..... horse out of field after 9 years...has been broken before rebacked 2 months....never seen a box or wagon.....rope halter n hand full treats.....20 mins first day on box....2 mins second day on box travelled came off no sweat etc......i gt to say i wud like to meet these girls and shove the prod where the sun dnt shine....no wonder so many horses are classed as dangerous etc....they must be so sick of humans treating them like ****....i believe u only get out what you put in....putting in this training can only bring out an aggressive unwilling animal.
what a shame the horse didnt land on her (unprotected) head it may have nocked some sense into her !
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Some horses couldn't care less, some could & some are just little beggars!
I had a horse once that loaded absolutely fine when we got him.. occasionally had to circle him twice.. or trot him up but that's it. Nothing ever happened to him in the trailer & he was only getting taken to PC rallies where nothing happened (except having to do work :/ ).
One day (about 3months after having him) he decided that he wasn't going to load, tried circling trotting, food, lunge rein round the bum.. & he started jumping around so put a bridle on to just try & keep him still then he started striking out with front & back hooves then reared & snapped the rein. At that point dad put it back in the field & phoned the owner saying that if they wanted their "100% safe, good loader. They could come fetch it themselves" :(

Oh I don't agree with using a cattle prod.. wouldn't beat a horse into a trailer either BUT in the scheme of things there are much more needy/severe cases that the RSPCA should be dealing with. Also you can't agree with using it on cattle & not on horses IMO.
 
Dubs said:
I'm not debating whether cattle prods are cruel or not, as I don't know enough about them or their effects.

However, the fact is, there were two young girls, 'loading a horse', with camera rolling, and a cattle prod at the ready.

In reality there was no real attempt made to load the horse at all - the loader was standing idly on the ramp facing the horse ffs.

The whole episode was set up ready for filming, and if they get their kicks out of causing a horse to panic, for entertainment purposes, then they need to be made an example of.
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^^^^^^^^^^ This!! The fact that at the beginning they showed the prod 'zapping' onto the fence made me very uncomfortable.
 
No, fluffy bunnies are the ones with no justification behind what they say.

"Electic shocks are cruel because I don't think the horse liked it!"

Cruelty, as defined by the law, is the deprivation of food, water or veterinary care or deliberatly causing an animal harm in an extreme fashion.
No where does the law say "not liking" is grounds for something to be cruel.
 
I would put money on this not being the only situation that those girls use electric shocks as a training tool. If the RSPCA (or any organisation) can step in and re-educate them or stop them in any other way then politics aside it is only a good thing.
 
Serenity087 said:
No, fluffy bunnies are the ones with no justification behind what they say.

"Electic shocks are cruel because I don't think the horse liked it!"

Cruelty, as defined by the law, is the deprivation of food, water or veterinary care or deliberatly causing an animal harm in an extreme fashion.
No where does the law say "not liking" is grounds for something to be cruel.
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I have read the whole thread and nobody says that?

Somebody did say they would withold water and food from a horse though - does that make them cruel?
 
It's a known fact with interogation that mental torture is far worse than physical. Whilst this isn't the same, it's kind of similar.

The whole clip was less than 2 minutes and the Horse was on. I've witnessed difficult loaders be subjected to all sorts. They range from being dragged in via a lunge line through a ring at the front, whips, pressure halters, chifneys, brooms up the backside, lunge lines etc etc. In many cases it's taken over an hour, which to me must be mental 'torture' for a Horse. In many cases I've seen the Horse rear. This has normally been at shows. Rearing for a Horse is a pretty normal thing. If you have a Horse that lives out (ie as naturally as possible) you see them rear and buck loads. Mine does, but never when ridden.

Ok so an electric prod might look awful but I'll bet it's probably more humane than a lot of those methods I've mentioned. It's a quick zap, and over in an instant. That Horse looked like it was being stubborn, and despite the fact the two girls didn't exactly do it right (or maybe they did, who knows?), the stress part to the Horse was very quick.

We spend a fortune looking after our Horses. It's not too much to ask that they load at all providing we have safe transport and drive well. However, I would only ever use something like that if I was certain it was stubborn and not afraid. If it was fear I would take the time to overcome this.

You can't judge in full from that clip. As for the RSPCA - get real. This isn't what I would class as cruelty at all. It's no worse than using a whip, and probably hurts less. Horses are big animals, they think nothing of using teeth and heels on each other, again which hurt a lot more than a prod. I'm not trying to justify it - just look at it realistically.

For those saying electric fences are ok but have an issue with these prods - I know of 2 Horses killed (horifically) in electric fence accidents. Hardly relevant, but thought provoking. Horses can avoid them, but, accidents happen.
 
minigal said:
I have read the whole thread and nobody says that?

Somebody did say they would withold water and food from a horse though - does that make them cruel?
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I doubt they withhold them indefinitely.

Same way that if you apply a prod indefinitely, you'd have the RSPCA knocking.

SuzySparkle - point - Before I got her Dorey climbed up the side of a tree (large oak with big roots before anyone pictures Dorey scaling trees ;) ) and got stuck on an electric fence for two hours.

For years she couldn't even cross tape on the floor without a human touching her.

Now there's a lasting effect of pain...
 
suzysparkle said:
It's a known fact with interogation that mental torture is far worse than physical. Whilst this isn't the same, it's kind of similar.

The whole clip was less than 2 minutes and the Horse was on. I've witnessed difficult loaders be subjected to all sorts. They range from being dragged in via a lunge line through a ring at the front, whips, pressure halters, chifneys, brooms up the backside, lunge lines etc etc. In many cases it's taken over an hour, which to me must be mental 'torture' for a Horse. In many cases I've seen the Horse rear. This has normally been at shows. Rearing for a Horse is a pretty normal thing. If you have a Horse that lives out (ie as naturally as possible) you see them rear and buck loads. Mine does, but never when ridden.

Ok so an electric prod might look awful but I'll bet it's probably more humane than a lot of those methods I've mentioned. It's a quick zap, and over in an instant. That Horse looked like it was being stubborn, and despite the fact the two girls didn't exactly do it right (or maybe they did, who knows?), the stress part to the Horse was very quick.

We spend a fortune looking after our Horses. It's not too much to ask that they load at all providing we have safe transport and drive well. However, I would only ever use something like that if I was certain it was stubborn and not afraid. If it was fear I would take the time to overcome this.

You can't judge in full from that clip. As for the RSPCA - get real. This isn't what I would class as cruelty at all. It's no worse than using a whip, and probably hurts less. Horses are big animals, they think nothing of using teeth and heels on each other, again which hurt a lot more than a prod. I'm not trying to justify it - just look at it realistically.

For those saying electric fences are ok but have an issue with these prods - I know of 2 Horses killed (horifically) in electric fence accidents. Hardly relevant, but thought provoking. Horses can avoid them, but, accidents happen.
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Wheres the blooming LIKE button when you need it????

Well said :D
 
Recovered to post. :p
teddyt said:
So to me, a prod can not be compared to an electric fence in this circumstance. And furthermore, whatever happened to patience and training? Why bully the horse- isnt riding meant to be a partnership?
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Erm yes, what happened to the 'partnership' and respect for other living creatures? What happened to actually training the horse to lead, load etc. What happened to listening to the horse? Oh, left to the 'bunny huggers' I expect. Thank the lord I'm one rather than a bully, because that is what this video is all about really. It's also about glorifying and enjoying being a bully, being 'dominant'. being the boss. Thosee women appear to actually revel in what they are doing, at their 'training' at hurting a horse... :eek:
Says a lot about them imo.

There may be some merit in looking at how the prod is used to learn about timing as Dragonslayer suggests but I have a personal rule not to inflict pain or hit in my training so for me there is little point. Reading some of the replies just reinforces for me how important having that basic rule is in ensuring I have to think what and how I am training and what the horse is actually learning. Don't get me wrong, I'm far from perfect btw.

Comparing to cattle, Parelli, horses locked in stables with no hay is fine but just takes away from looking at what is going on in this video.
Must say though that I think implying that 'bunny huggers' *(whoever they are) leave horses locked up with no food is a gross exaggeration, it has gone on as long as humans have domesticated horses and is imo amongst the most underrated abuse horses have endured since man decided to use them. Whatever my feelings about this and the use of prods on other animals, it doesn't make what is shown in this video right or any more acceptable to me. Yes worse stuff that goes on... perhaps we should all just say "Oh it's ok coz they do it to cows" or "it's ok coz that man just beat his horse to within an inch of it's life"... That sort of 'comfort' thinking isn't for me. :(
Where on the 'worse' scale do we stop saying "it's OK because?"
Anywhere? Or is it a slippery slope to anything goes?
 
amandap said:
Recovered to post. :p


Erm yes, what happened to the 'partnership' and respect for other living creatures? What happened to actually training the horse to lead, load etc. What happened to listening to the horse? Oh, left to the 'bunny huggers' I expect. Thank the lord I'm one rather than a bully, because that is what this video is all about really. It's also about glorifying and enjoying being a bully, being 'dominant'. being the boss. Thosee women appear to actually revel in what they are doing, at their 'training' at hurting a horse... :eek:
Says a lot about them imo.

There may be some merit in looking at how the prod is used to learn about timing as Dragonslayer suggests but I have a personal rule not to inflict pain or hit in my training so for me there is little point. Reading some of the replies just reinforces for me how important having that basic rule is in ensuring I have to think what and how I am training and what the horse is actually learning. Don't get me wrong, I'm far from perfect btw.

Comparing to cattle, Parelli, horses locked in stables with no hay is fine but just takes away from looking at what is going on in this video.
Must say though that I think implying that 'bunny huggers' *(whoever they are) leave horses locked up with no food is a gross exaggeration, it has gone on as long as humans have domesticated horses and is imo amongst the most underrated abuse horses have endured since man decided to use them. Whatever my feelings about this and the use of prods on other animals, it doesn't make what is shown in this video right or any more acceptable to me. Yes worse stuff that goes on... perhaps we should all just say "Oh it's ok coz they do it to cows" or "it's ok coz that man just beat his horse to within an inch of it's life"... That sort of 'comfort' thinking isn't for me. :(
Where on the 'worse' scale do we stop saying "it's OK because?"
Anywhere? Or is it a slippery slope to anything goes?
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just this - if you have a horse be lucky you can and love him / her xxx
 
Serenity087 said:
SuzySparkle - point - Before I got her Dorey climbed up the side of a tree (large oak with big roots before anyone pictures Dorey scaling trees ;) ) and got stuck on an electric fence for two hours.

For years she couldn't even cross tape on the floor without a human touching her.

Now there's a lasting effect of pain...
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Big difference between a second and 2hrs. Your Horse was very very lucky. The two I mention were braindead a lot quicker than that. One I used to own and happened after I sold her on (to an excellent home). The other, well, I shan't go into details, was a friend of mine's Horse.
 
Completely agree with what Dubs has said. And for that reason alone someone needs to take these stupid women to one side and have a word.

The other thing they should consider in future is the type of vehicle they transport thier horse in.

That box is too small for the horse, and notoriously bad for delivering a stable journey.

As for the rspca - well this is right up thier street. Soft target, nothing to get thier hands dirty over and the media all done for them.
 
Re: loading - I have to admit to observing with interest the troubles people have loading when at shows or other "dos" I particularly like seeing people giving their horses a "run up" - all mine can manage to walk up the ramp without needing momentum to get up there! However that is off topic, except I can fully appreciate it is intensely frustrating to have a pony that is a bad loader - that and being bad to catch is on my list of no-nos.

I agree that watching ponies being hit, poked with brooms and otherwise bullied onto lorries is horrible but I don't think that just because these things happen, it justifies the using a cattle prod on a horse. I repeat, perhaps if the use of one makes a situation safer then it might be ok, but as a training aid to load a horse? No thanks I'd rather not travel my horses than subject them to that.
 
suzysparkle said:
We spend a fortune looking after our Horses. It's not too much to ask that they load at all providing we have safe transport and drive well.
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Arghhhhhhhhhh not that one. This is my pet hate! The thinking that because we spend fortunes of money on horses that they somehow 'owe' us!
If we want them to travel we have to teach them how to load and convince them that we can drive carefully, that the trailer or lorry is safe or alter it so it is safe to that horse. We shouldn't expect anything imo. So yes it's too much to ask unless we do our bit in training and preparation etc. If we haven't done it why should we have the right to force a horse onto a trailer, especially using pain? I bet he must get to that show or move house now and really doesn't want to loose money when the trailer is rented etc. :rolleyes:

My horses don't even know money exists let alone our obsession with it being so important... they have no idea that humans think and often insist they should get their monies worth. :confused:

Runs and hides from the onslaught of people that believe horse do owe us for what we spend on them...
 
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