Cant help him no more

[noblesteed]

I really hope you get things sorted.
Surely he is redeemable to somebody experienced with Iberians, because you say he is fantastic to ride. You REALLY NEED to talk to an Iberian specialist!!!! RIng one of the studs, anything. People brush them off as 'normal' horses and they really ARE NOT. They are one of the worlds oldest breeds and were bred in Spain to be war horses and bullfighters. They are NOTHING like our horses and need completely different handling. For a start at 6 he is NO WAY mature - they don;t mature til at least 7 or 8. He is still learning.

If he was born in spain and gelded late due to being sent to the UK (they leave them entire) then he will be riggy and a vet will help you with that. Apparently if the SPanish DO geld them in Spain then it's because they are nut jobs - so you could have ended up with one of these in which case PTS.

If it's any consolation mine has been passed around a lot, and I have found the only way he will settle is through 24 hour turnout, NO feed or rugging - have you tried all this? Sometimes their digestive systems can;'t handle any sugar and they have problems with our grass. Mine is muzzled. He was a TOTAL nightmare at the livery yard, even my instructor couldn;t handle him, and put me in hospital twice. I was determined not to give up, I did have some help from the luso lady I mentioned earlier and from members of the BAPSH forum. My horse will fight if you push him - but I have learned to work with him. He is super-intelligent but also VERY sensitive and it took 2 YEARS to build up trust together. He would stress, box walk, sweat, try to push his way out of his stable, broke fences, pulled down half a barn wall, wrestled with the farrier and the dentist and threatened to kick me (though he never actually did). BUT he has become a total superstar, once he learned to trust me he would follow me through fire, they really are amazing animals and I would never part with him.

I am not an experienced horse person, but I have had to do a lot of research about iberians so I could learn the best way to handle mine. WHATEVER you do, DO NOT, EVER send him to a Natural Horsemanship trainer. Mine's last owners did that and it really confused him. Iberians are just too clever for it!

Good luck. You really do need to get a Spanish expert to help.

 

[scarymare]

No, you can't.

I had one similar - had all of us trapped in loose boxes at Snowball Farm about 25 year ago and had me trapped in a corner just rearing on me. I never did get to the bottom of it. I sent him away to be professionally sorted and the event rider just said his behaviour came out of nowhere - he could have a great session riding and then just get cornered in the stable.

He went (from the eventers yard) to a PC home (totally honest sale for less than meat money). I still think I should have PTS though.

I think you should too.

 

[Wagtail]

I have to say that although I have never had a healthy horse PTS and am currently in the situation of having to keep two field ornaments at the expense of being able to afford (or have the space for) my own horse to ride, if either of my field ornaments seriously turned on me without obvious and understandable reason, they would be PTS promto.

 

[Herts05]

Go with your instincts. Yes, PRE's are different (I have had one for 3 years) and yes a good Iberian trainer who has worked for a decent time in Spain/Portugal is a good way to go to get guidance but it sounds like it might be too late. Late cut geldings will always retain a level of stallion behaviour and must always be treated as such. The reason that they are so well behaved in Spain/Portugal is that they are not allowed to get away with anything!

However, Richard Maxwell has experience of Iberians, he took on a problematic Luso stallion with good success. You may want to give him a call.

If at the end of the day PTS is the way to go, then well done for being tough enough to make this decision.

 

[xTrooperx]

i think you are doing the right thing..

what good would a trainer be? you will always have this event in your mind and the thought of it happening again, once scared of a certain horse its very rare to every fully trust again.
and re-homing could also result in this issue happening again which may lead to a worse out come, and you being blamed for knowing this horse has done this in the past.

a hard thing to decide, but im sure which ever way you go, we will be here to support you.

 

[somethingorother]

I think if every avenue is exhausted then PTS is the only option. But to me, it doesn't sound like you are taking the very good advice of people on here who are giving you names to contact. All trainers are different, it may just be that the ones you have tried do not have experience with this type of horse. I would not PTS until i had spoken to as many iberian horse experts as i could find. And i hate it when people on here use the term 'bunny hugger' to refer to anyone who doesn't agree with them.

There's many things worse than a quick painless death, but if he is a good ride, as you say, then i would try everything before PTS.

 

[somethingorother]

Also, just to say, i loaned a cob who boxed at your face when rearing, ran through fences, wouldn't tie up, dragged you everywhere, bolted when riding and reared every time he couldn't get his own way. It used to take 2 of us 5 hours a night to get everything done with him. But he changed home, was bought by someone with an elderly mare and donkey and lots of hilly land and most importantly lots of time and a good instructor. A few months later we went to visit and found a completely different horse. It was just his routine and environment which didn't suit him with us.

 

[Amaranta]

Go with your instincts. Yes, PRE's are different (I have had one for 3 years) and yes a good Iberian trainer who has worked for a decent time in Spain/Portugal is a good way to go to get guidance but it sounds like it might be too late. Late cut geldings will always retain a level of stallion behaviour and must always be treated as such. The reason that they are so well behaved in Spain/Portugal is that they are not allowed to get away with anything!

However, Richard Maxwell has experience of Iberians, he took on a problematic Luso stallion with good success. You may want to give him a call.

If at the end of the day PTS is the way to go, then well done for being tough enough to make this decision.

I agree with this, having trained and bred PRE's for 20 odd years I feel I know them pretty well.

They are very very intelligent and also very sensitive, they don't need handling any differently from any other breed but they need GOOD handling. Handled the right way they learn unbelievably quickly, and once they have learned something it seems to stick. Sadly they also learn bad things just as quickly.

From what you say, your little man had a bad start, this is in no way your fault and you have tried to help him but have been unable to, again not your fault.

I believe you are doing the right thing in having the vet check him over, if there is nothing physically wrong, then you may need to make a tough decision.

However, if he were mine, I would give him one last chance, I would send him to Yeguada Esperanza in Northants. James and Emma are very experienced in Iberians and I know of at least one difficult stallion who went on to become a paragon of virtue. They have patience AND ability, they will also tell you the truth as to whether he can be saved or not.

Good luck whichever decision you make.

 

[traceyann]

I have had very long chats with richard maxwell poor bloke must be sick of me and followed his advice on the rearing and boxing. And like iv said hes now stopped that. what he did though is new and more dangerous and he could have killed me if it wasnt for my cob. I had a spanish trainer over from spain brutal wasnt the word put my horse back weeks. Im all for a smack he took to another level. I will be speaking to richard again poor bloke before any decision is made its a shame richard cant take horses in at the moment. He would be there in a flash

 

[Amaranta]

The spanish can be very brutal, which is one of the reasons the stalllions don't misbehave. Not all of them of course are like this and I am sorry you had one who resorted to smacking the horse the way he did. Once a spanish horse is in the 'zone' it is very difficult to get them out of it.

I know Richard has helped you but I really would give Emma and James a ring if I were you, they have had fantastic results and turned out some very happy, well adjusted horses.

 

[pebblemania]

I have to say being quite new to this that I agree with you completely. I am sure he is a stunning horse and understand your sentiment as 'paying you back' it's not meant in a literal sense! this horse had had a lot of chances and somewhere you have to draw the line. no horses life is ever worth more than your own and I'm sure your friends and family would agree. follow your instincts and I am really impressed by your brave decision.

 

[leah_x]

If PTS is your last option, there is one more thing you could try. I work for Redwings Horse Sanctuary, and a lot of the time with situations like yours, they will take horses in. We have the dodgy nutters at the site I work on, so they would more than likely take him. If for some reason they don't, they will definately talk to you and give some advice.

 

[noodle_]

Your safety is far more important than anything else.You seem to have exhausted any other options.Don't let the"tree huggers"bully you into more dangerous situations.

This ^


and especially seeing as he was destined to be pedigree chum....

 

[PoppyAnderson]

this is how he repays me.

This is not how animals operate. He doesn't behave the way he does to 'get back on you' or exact revenge. Sounds to me like you need to understand a little more of a horses psyche and motivations for behaviour. Hope you manage to achieve the right outcome for the horse.

 

[Sags_Deer]

As others have said speak to Spanish trainers there are lots on the BAPSH website, which part of the country are you in?

 

[Tinseltoes]

However, if he were mine, I would give him one last chance, I would send him to Yeguada Esperanza in Northants. James and Emma are very experienced in Iberians and I know of at least one difficult stallion who went on to become a paragon of virtue. They have patience AND ability, they will also tell you the truth as to whether he can be saved or not.



Agree with this idea.They may well be able to save your horse.

 

[traceyann]

He just come in he was very good hes been loaded and on his way to the vets test will tell. In some ways i hope they find something so i dont feel iv failed but we will see. He staying until tuesday so aleast i can recover from my brusies

 

[beeswax]

if this Richard cant take any horses right now then turn him out until next year or when Richard can, the horse needs a break away from man and our fears, he is still young. Sorry but I do believe that because you are a bit nervous of him you are giving off vides you do not even realise you are giving off and because of that he is picking up on them and reacting himself, give him 1 more chance with someone else not you and well done to the cob but does this horse do this when other horses are around YOU and him or does he do it when he is on his own with you as well, can you see where I am coming from here, could be jealousy over you and all sorts of things.

 

[beeswax]

You must have the best vet in the world if he is going to do a full investigation and find out what is wrong in 3 days including looking in to the horses mind ?????????? and then making your decision on PTS based on if they find nothing !!!!!!!!

 

[Luci07]

I do feel for you and it must have been incredibly scarey for you.

I know nothing about Iberian horses. I know so little than when I was at a show and start chatting to a competitor sitting on her horse, you could be talking a different language. I will go down this route one day and will no doubt be as obessive about breeding etc as I am about ISH's!

I would just say that you have done so much and put so much into this boy - could you just try the specialists in North hants? then you really will know you have exhausted every avenue - or better still have a wonderful horse who has been turned around. I don't class myself as a bunny hugger but sometimes we personally need to feel we have done all we could before we take the PTS option.

 

[ladyt25]

I think if the vets find nothing then you should consider the options people have suggested here as in trying some other people to help who are experienced in these types of horses. If I was in this situation I would merely want to know there was no physical problem that was causing this behaviour as then i would feel there was something I could try - if he is only 6 years old then I believe he would be able to be worked with. If however you found he had something like a brain tumour then obviously you would then know what was causing it and certainly then i think PTS is the only option.

From the sounds of it he sounds lovely the majority of the time, so the good behaviour and manners ARE there somewhere but there's evidently something that flicks a switch and causes him to react violently. I would definitely get someone to work with you to get to the bottom of why he does this.

I know people said there was a reason he was on the meat wagon but in my mind 100s of horses and ponies end up on the meat wagon mainly because the owner(s) at the time couldn't handle them and that was the easy way out for them. I am pretty sure that is where my pony could have ended up or maybe was even destined for as he ended up at some sales ring back in his life and he is 'quirky' but I have had him 17 years now and he is lovely - still quirky - but a much changed character.

I wish you the best of luck with yours. At the very least you gave him an extra year of life.

 

[traceyann]

My decision to pts because he nearly killed me and not just me. I want to be 100 percent sure there is no health issue first. From his history he has always been troubled from stud to me. Believe me i dont want to do this but i dont want to die either. There nothing wrong with this horses brain if he been like this for six years this is human fault maybe from spanish stud or inbetween who knows but he suffering because he not a nastys horse just scared one

 

[beeswax]

if he is scared then you got to undo the being scared and get him to trust again, so turning away and spending time with him everyday on his own (without the Cob to protect you)even if it means you sitting on a wall (to protect yourself in case he rears up at you) on the side of his field and making friends with him, things can only improve. Sorry but watching my own horses and knowing who is the boss etc etc, I wouldnt have a big cob around him when I am trying to deal with him I would have him on a one on one basis. My cob and shettie get full of sh....t with each other when they are both around me because they are jealous of my attentions. Hope you give him one more chance and dont expect miracles in 1 week it is going to take time, but stop being scared as well he is just as scared as what you are, what a combination!!!!

 

[Pale Rider]

I think that everything you have done up to now is really commendable, and further vet checks hopefully will help you make the right decision.

If his problem is behavioral rather than a tumor or the like, someone like Max is your best option if you decide to carry on trying.

The Spanish traditions really are absurd when it comes to any animal, but they do produce some fantastic looking horses.

I know lots of people who have imported entire Spanish horses and they have all ended up being cut, much to the dismay of some of the traditionalists, but much nicer horses for that.
Whatever decision you make I'd support as you have done so much already. All the best and stay safe.

 

[Tammytoo]

However, if he were mine, I would give him one last chance, I would send him to Yeguada Esperanza in Northants. James and Emma are very experienced in Iberians and I know of at least one difficult stallion who went on to become a paragon of virtue. They have patience AND ability, they will also tell you the truth as to whether he can be saved or not..

It wouldn't hurt to give them a ring and discuss it. I'm sure they will be able to tell you straight away whether they can help or not.

It must have been a terrifying experience for you and I'm sure your comment about him "repaying" you was purely frustration at the efforts you have put into him. At the end of the day, if the vet can't find anything physical and James & Emma at Yeguada in Northants aren't able to help you have no choice but PTS for your own safety.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[traceyann]

please could someone give me james and emma number going to have a chat with them. I dont want to put anyone elses life at risk before informing them about him. And if hes worth the risk.

 

[FionaM12]

I think there has to be a point where you decide enough is enough. It's all very well people saying there are others who could train him out of this, but if no-one's available to help you may find yourself a bit stuck.

You've tried selling, I believe? If you can't find a buyer who could take him on to work on his issues and if like me you're on a limited income and can't afford expensive professional re-training, you may have little choice.

I hope for his sake you're able to find a solution from the advice given by other posters. But if you can't (or can't afford to) don't let anyone make you feel guilty.

You saved him from death to give him a chance, and you did your best.

 

[SeasonalSituation]

Would you sell if he went to a home you approved of?

 

[traceyann]

No i couldnt live with myself if he hurt anyone and im scared for his future. Although its not looking good at the moment id rather know where he is. sorry

 

[BSJAlove]

Would you sell if he went to a home you approved of?

of course not! what if he gets sold on? then shes sold a dangerous animal and i wouldnt want that on my concious TBH