Caroline March

[Kadastorm]

I understand that people within the SCI community have said she was still in the early part of her journey. However, she obviously struggled with her mental health and had found what made her tick and kept her stable - that probably would have been a structured routine, keeping physically active with the horses and walking her dogs. Now that she was unable to do that, it would have screwed her mental health again. I know she said she wasn’t depressed, but her letter says something different. I also know that for me to remain stable in my mental health recovery, I need structure, I need to do things I enjoy and I need to be busy.
I know I would probably do the same thing if I was in her position. When you have struggled in your own head for so long and then the things that you relied on to help you were suddenly taken from you, it’s hard to see a way forward.
I am supportive of her decision and I hope the SCI community remember that everyone is different, she tried for 2 years and she wouldn’t have made this decision lightly. Just look on her tiktok and you can see that she was longing for her old life again. She tried new activities and they weren’t for her. Why should she prolong the mental and physical torture just to keep everyone else happy?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I know if I became quadraplegic or locked in, I'd absolutely want the kindness we can give our animals. There's illnesses too - end stage motor neurone disease would be another

I watched the programme on the Stuntman who was paralysed during the filming of the Harry Potter movies, he was really up beat and making the best out of a bad situation to start with, but the deterioration he was going through over the course of the programme was heartbreaking, made me cry. Also the statements they release about Michael Schumacher - they're very private about his condition, but it doesn't sound good, this was a guy who was a phenomenally successful F1 driver, enjoying skiing in his retirement. I wonder if he's aware, how he feels about his current life and what he'd choose if he were able to.

I couldn't do it

I think it always sticks in my head my mum's comments when we had animals PTS - "at least we can do that for animals, humans we have to watch suffer"

How that has stuck in my head.

 

[marmalade76]

Her comment along the lines "society's obsession with living as long as possible" is something I have thought about myself when we're told not to drink, smoke, eat this, that and the other. Quality over quantity wins for me, enjoying life as much as you can rather than simply exsisting. I've known people who've lived too long and I don't want that for myself. Anyone watch the doc about Kate Garraway's husband?

RIP Caroline, utmost respect.

 

[paddy555]

Anyone watch the doc about Kate Garraway's husband?

RIP Caroline, utmost respect.

I watched it. I followed his situation in the press from when he first got COVID and what he went through. I did wonder at his worst times if someone had asked if he wanted "out" what his reply would have been.

It was Caroline's life, her choice, her death and her decision. I would do exactly the same but probably earlier. When my future became clear I wouldn't want to battle to learn to cope with what I would regard as unbearable.

RIP Caroline. I hope you have contributed a little to the current assisted dying debate.

 

[dillonbibbon]

Nah. This is shite. But my therapist made me think.

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[ecb89]

Nah. This is shite. But my therapist made me think.

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I’ve seen a few of these. In my opinion it’s bollocks. Assisted dying doesn’t mean a persons life is meaningless or not worth living. It means the person has a choice.

 

[AmyMay]

Nah. This is *****. But my therapist made me think.

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Can you moderate your language please.

 

[dillonbibbon]

I’ve seen a few of these. In my opinion it’s bollocks. Assisted dying doesn’t mean a persons life is meaningless or not worth living. It means the person has a choice.

Well yeah. Did you read the post?

 

[dillonbibbon]

Can you moderate your language please.

Lmfao

 

[ycbm]

Nah. This is shite. But my therapist made me think.

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I have been told in the intervening 33 years by many different people that if what had happened to me had happened to them, they would have killed themselves. That’s insulting. It not only tells me they deem that my life as a disabled person is not worth living, but that I must be an idiot for not thinking the same and therefore an idiot for not killing myself.

No it doesn't. They aren't talking about about you they are talking about themselves.

I have also been accused of being arrogant, the inference being arrogant to enjoy life as a wheelchair user.

Or maybe you are just arrogant? In particular in thinking you should be able to tell other people how to live or die?

Finally, I have the duty to not leave my loved ones with the burden of loss.

Not if you find life unbearable you don't. If that's the case then your loved ones, if they love you, will think of you and not themselves.





You clearly don't find life unbearable,, so you can't judge others who do.



Edited to add, for those who think empathy is only present in people who write it out explicitly each time, I have the greatest sympathy for people who end up in what for me would be a nightmare scenario, and the greatest respect for those who make it work for them, something I don't think I could do myself.
.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Her comment along the lines "society's obsession with living as long as possible" is something I have thought about myself when we're told not to drink, smoke, eat this, that and the other. Quality over quantity wins for me, enjoying life as much as you can rather than simply exsisting. I've known people who've lived too long and I don't want that for myself. Anyone watch the doc about Kate Garraway's husband?

RIP Caroline, utmost respect.

It might have been ricky gervais who has a sketch that made me ponder this same thing. He made the point that choices which prolong your life don't tend to give you more of those mid-30s high energy, feeling well years, it gives you additional years wetting yourself in a smelly old care home feeling every bone in your body... I thought it was a prudent point to make (although obviously exaggerated for comedic effect before anyone gets upset about my care home description)

 

[AmyMay]

Lmfao

It’s the quickest way for you to get suspended from the forum

Your choice.

 

[equinerebel]

There’s a great saying that I live by

“My choice is not a judgement on your choice.”

I think the author of that post could benefit from it.

 

[conniegirl]

I think the author of that post has got to be one of the nastiest, most arrogant and high handed person ive had the displeasure of encountering.

How utterly narcissistic do you have you have to be to believe your experiences are the same for everyone else?

How conceited do you have you have to be to think that you can speak for everyone with a spinal injury?

And how vile a person do you need to be to post the garbage she posted.

Oh and clearly the height of her succeeding was so dizzying that i’ve never even heard of her.

 

[SEL]

There’s a great saying that I live by

“My choice is not a judgement on your choice.”

I think the author of that post could benefit from it.

Absolutely.

No one knows how they will be until they are in that situation - and let's hope none of us are.

 

[southerncomfort]

Conniegirl, I completely get why that post made you angry, but that was a pretty unkind response to someone who has clearly been through a horrific life experience that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.

I don't know why she chose to take the response to Caroline's actions so personally, only she knows, but I don't think it's for us to judge.

I've no doubt at all that having everything you love in life taken away from you changes you and skews the way you look at the world.

I just think 'their but for the grace of God go I'. You can't know how you'll feel if God forbid it happens to you.

It was an ill judged post for sure, but I don't think she meant it as a judgement on Caroline. Maybe those of us that used the word 'brave' to describe Caroline's decision were wrong to do so. I suspect this lady is making the point that choosing to live with paralysis/disability can also be the brave choice.

I don't know. Its a hugely emotive subject. I'm still working out how I feel about it. But I think feeling strongly about something doesn't mean that other people's views are invalid (that's a general comment, not aimed at anyone in particular).

 

[Jellymoon]

I can actually see both sides, and while I totally get why Caroline had had enough, I also can see how it would make people with similar injuries who are not taking this option feel upset.

You have to try to empathise, at least a bit. You’ve had the most horrific thing happen to you, you have been through the most unimaginable pain, everyone around you is affected. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, not just yours, and you find yourself suddenly in a world that finds you hard to accept, and doesn’t really want you, as you make people feel uncomfortable and afraid. You are constantly fighting for your rights to make life easier for you and make yourself heard.

And now you have people saying, ‘I would do the same if my life became so worthless, unbearable and futile’. I don’t think this person was commenting on Caroline’s decision, I think she was commenting more on people’s response to it. I try to imagine what it would feel like to be in that position, when you’ve climbed the mountain, come out the other side with a fulfilling life, a job, a family, and people are saying, ‘I wouldn’t want your life, I’d rather be dead’.

I’m probably way off the mark here, but that’s how I read her post.

 

[ihatework]

I can actually see both sides, and while I totally get why Caroline had had enough, I also can see how it would make people with similar injuries who are not taking this option feel upset.

You have to try to empathise, at least a bit. You’ve had the most horrific thing happen to you, you have been through the most unimaginable pain, everyone around you is affected. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, not just yours, and you find yourself suddenly in a world that finds you hard to accept, and doesn’t really want you, as you make people feel uncomfortable and afraid. You are constantly fighting for your rights to make life easier for you and make yourself heard.

And now you have people saying, ‘I would do the same if my life became so worthless, unbearable and futile’. I don’t think this person was commenting on Caroline’s decision, I think she was commenting more on people’s response to it. I try to imagine what it would feel like to be in that position, when you’ve climbed the mountain, come out the other side with a fulfilling life, a job, a family, and people are saying, ‘I wouldn’t want your life, I’d rather be dead’.

I’m probably way off the mark here, but that’s how I read her post.

Nicely put.

 

[conniegirl]

I don't know why she chose to take the response to Caroline's actions so personally, only she knows, but I don't think it's for us to judge.

It was an ill judged post for sure, but I don't think she meant it as a judgement on Caroline. Maybe those of us that used the word 'brave' to describe Caroline's decision were wrong to do so. I suspect this lady is making the point that choosing to live with paralysis/disability can also be the brave choice.

No I don’t agree with you.

We should call out the arrogance and the high handedness.
She put this up as a direct attack on Caroline and her actions.
She knew it was a direct attack and that her nastiness would be called out so she stopped anyone from commenting on the post directly.

The only person she can comment on is herself, what other can cope with, are willing to make a go of or are willing to try and cope with is up to the individual not for her to dictate.

Some people can mentally cope with life in a wheelchair, some can’t.

Caroline made the best decision for her and her family and this woman doesnt get to come along and denigrate that.

 

[Jellymoon]

Also, I’m not sure I would like it, if I were in that position, if people kept saying they wished we could put humans down, like we do the animals.

I know that’s not really what most people are saying, and it’s about personal choice, but I get that might make you feel angry/insulted…perhaps…but I’m just speculating…

 

[BMA2]

We are all very different with very different view points of views...

I have children that I obviously love very much. But if I couldn't have conceived I don't think I would have gone down the IVF route...whereas some folk would and some folk would spend thousands and thousands and make it their life's worth to conceive...those people would feel their life was empty without children. I think I would have been OK and it wouldn't have been a dealbreaker

Same for Caroline...her position was a deal breaker *for her*

I'm hoping that doesn't sound like I'm trivialising...just trying to say we all have different versions of "OK"

Edited to try and sort out dodgy grammar

 

[ihatework]

Funny how it’s easy to spot the empathetic people on the forum ..

 

[SO1]

I can actually see both sides, and while I totally get why Caroline had had enough, I also can see how it would make people with similar injuries who are not taking this option feel upset.

You have to try to empathise, at least a bit. You’ve had the most horrific thing happen to you, you have been through the most unimaginable pain, everyone around you is affected. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, not just yours, and you find yourself suddenly in a world that finds you hard to accept, and doesn’t really want you, as you make people feel uncomfortable and afraid. You are constantly fighting for your rights to make life easier for you and make yourself heard.

And now you have people saying, ‘I would do the same if my life became so worthless, unbearable and futile’. I don’t think this person was commenting on Caroline’s decision, I think she was commenting more on people’s response to it. I try to imagine what it would feel like to be in that position, when you’ve climbed the mountain, come out the other side with a fulfilling life, a job, a family, and people are saying, ‘I wouldn’t want your life, I’d rather be dead’.

I’m probably way off the mark here, but that’s how I read her post.

I absolutely agree with this.

I don't think she was belittling Caroline's decision I think what she was trying to say is that her experience of disability was different and that her life as a disabled person although challenging for various reasons is satisfying and worth living.

It is a very emotive subject. I think what the other viewpoint was trying to get across was that Caroline made the decision because she had severe depression not soley because she was a wheelchair user. The two things are not synonymous.

I don't think Caroline should be described as brave as it could imply that people that have severe depression whether they are wheelchair users or not who do not decide to commit suicide are cowardly and that I think is a dangerous path to go down.

I know someone who died by suicide they were able-bodied, had a loving partner, a job they enjoyed and a comfortable house to live in. My old boss's brother also tried to commit suicide. Caroline had a history of depression and suicidal thoughts before her accident too when she was able-bodied. Severe depression is so much more complicated than being than being disabled. I think that is the message.

 

[blitznbobs]

Well the one person who isn’t worrying about any of this is Caroline… I just feel sorry for her loved ones now, not only have they had to deal with the consequences of Caroline’s decision they have to put up with all this debate too… considering how non judgemental the world is supposed to be now it seems pretty judgemental about everything,

The only thing I know for sure is it’s none of my business…

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Everyone’s choices are exactly that theirs. Also everyone’s opinions on a subject are also exactly that theirs.

This is a very emotive subject and I think people need to remember that they don’t have to agree with what anyone else is posting, people are only expressing how they feel about the subject.

Caroline did what she felt was right, those choosing to make the best they can from their changed life are doing what they think is right and neither are wrong. Horses for courses as they say. Nobody should be calling anyone out for the choices they make regarding how to end or live their lives.

I don’t have an SCI but my life has drastically changed since July 2022 and I have days where I find it all very hard to live with and long for my obstacle races and competitive badminton days and the days where I didn’t have to think about if I’m going to fall that day. There have been days filled with pain and falls where I have had enough.

Caroline’s friends and family will have their opinions on her decision and really they are the only ones who will have really seen her struggles.

 

[YourValentine]

Kate's social media post does make some very valid points about disabled access and facilities, and societies attitudes towards the disabled.

And as much as I am I favour of 'your life, your choice' BUT we need a society that enables disabled people to live their life to the full if they want to.
So that anyone who feels that they no longer have a decent quality of life, has been given the best chance to have one and choosing to end their life early is because its really not for them, not because of a lack of choice/options etc.
But because they really can't have the same life quality they desired. For some people the ability to stride across a field, chamber over rocks, rave all night, etc really is their rason d'etre and if they can't find a substitute then they shouldn't be forced to live what they feel is a half life with no 'fun' anymore.

 

[Jellymoon]

I think you have to imagine if you saw someone in the street in a wheel chair, perhaps with their family and kids around them, would you walk up to them and say to their face, ‘Caroline was so brave for opting out of life, I would do the same if I ended up like you’.
I don’t think you would, and therefore we shouldn’t be saying those things online.

 

[conniegirl]

I think you have to imagine if you saw someone in the street in a wheel chair, perhaps with their family and kids around them, would you walk up to them and say to their face, ‘Caroline was so brave for opting out of life, I would do the same if I ended up like you’.
I don’t think you would, and therefore we shouldn’t be saying those things online.

No you wouldn’t walk up to a random person in the street and say it.

However if they brought it up in conversation then yes i’d say i think “Caroline was brave for doing what she felt was best for her, that she was brave to admit she could not cope with the life and physical limitations she had ended up with”

I couldn’t say that i’d do the same as i have a small child i need to keep living for and that alone would make me bare any pain but i also can’t say i’d be happy living in a wheelchair. Prior to having a child i probably would have taken the same route as Caroline.
Being on crutches for 18months was horrific for me, i can’t imagine how difficult i would find life in a wheelchair.

I am genuinely glad for those that manage to find fulfillment after spinal injuries that change their world but not everyone can and not everyone wants to.

 

[cauda equina]

And some people can't find happiness and fulfilment even without a spinal injury

It seems very reductive to say - X happened to a person, and so they took their life
There are probably many other factors contributing to their decision rather than just one event, however catastrophic

 

[Annagain]

I can actually see both sides, and while I totally get why Caroline had had enough, I also can see how it would make people with similar injuries who are not taking this option feel upset.

You have to try to empathise, at least a bit. You’ve had the most horrific thing happen to you, you have been through the most unimaginable pain, everyone around you is affected. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, not just yours, and you find yourself suddenly in a world that finds you hard to accept, and doesn’t really want you, as you make people feel uncomfortable and afraid. You are constantly fighting for your rights to make life easier for you and make yourself heard.

And now you have people saying, ‘I would do the same if my life became so worthless, unbearable and futile’. I don’t think this person was commenting on Caroline’s decision, I think she was commenting more on people’s response to it. I try to imagine what it would feel like to be in that position, when you’ve climbed the mountain, come out the other side with a fulfilling life, a job, a family, and people are saying, ‘I wouldn’t want your life, I’d rather be dead’.

I’m probably way off the mark here, but that’s how I read her post.

I agree with this and understand the sentiment in that post but I do think it was worded in a way that sounds like it was criticising the decision Caroline made rather than saying I understand it was the right decision for her but it's not one that right for me. I get why -she has obviously spent a lot of time fighting and that maybe makes her tone a bit combative. The focus on Caroline's decision must mean that people (either directly or in general discussion) are drawing parallels in their situations. It must be very frustrating and upsetting that people think she's living a miserable life but isn't brave enough to do anything about it rather than being genuinely happy with her life.

It comes back to each person having made the choice that is right for them. And that's what's important, the choice being available.