Caudal heel pain. Experiences please!

[[59668]]

Hello all!

A few of you may have seen my other posts, but here is a summary of where I am at!

I have a 7 year old cob mare. Recently I have noticed that she didn't feel right in trot on the roads, not lame exactly, just not right, and when she spooked she started sort of catching her toes and going down on her knees. Also tentative to walk downhill on the roads.

No issues at all in the school. Willing and forward and loving her jumping.

I got the vet out yesterday. Sound in trot in a straight line on hard ground. very mildly lame both ways on a circle on hard ground.

Nerve blocked her, and came to the conclusion she is bilaterally lame in front, worse on the right, diagnosis of caudal heel pain.

She is already booked in anyway with the farrier for her regular appt next Thurs, so to get a start, we have decided on remedial shoeing (vet and farrier have spoken) and I will get her xyayed and MRI'd in the new year. Please, no comments on barefoot. both the vet and I are willing to give this a go, but for our own reasons, we want to try shoeing first, and see if this helps.

The vet mentioned that this is VERY mild lameness at the moment, most people wouldn't even have picked up on anything being amiss, so I am hopeful that we have caught this early.

My question is, has anyone managed to get back to/maintain previous levels of competing? At the moment we SJ at 70/80, prelim dressage and event at 70. I have NEVER run her on hard ground anyway, so of course will be so careful in future. The vet seemed happy that we could just carry on, but I am looking for other experiences please!

 

[Annagain]

I stopped jumping Archie when he was diagnosed. The vet said I could jump at a low level but it would shorten his career. My main reason for stopping was that he was never an easy horse to jump, he'd charge at the fence and either put in an extra stride and cat leap or stop at the last second, and because of the extra stride you had no clue what it would be! When I first had him, we put it down to lack of practice/confidence and napping (he was very nappy and would often be so consumed with napping to other horses or the exit that he wasn't focused and would suddenly realise there was a fence in front of him) but when I knew it was because he was most likely in pain, I couldn't bring myself to ride him as forcefully as he needed. We carried on popping the odd log out hacking or on fun rides when conditions were perfect for the next 12 years - he'd still put in the extra stride but never stopped. He retired this year, at 24, as he'd progressed to being lame on hard surfaces - he's still sound on the soft.

In contrast, when Monty was diagnosed with his elbow arthritis (at 20) the vet hospital said not to jump but our vet said to try and see how he felt. He loved his jumping so we tried him - he's nearly 25 now and still enjoys a pop of up to 80cm now and again and was still going XC with a very novicey rider (passenger, really) in 2019. If she's happy, I'd carry on, sparingly. You will naturally be more cautious now and will notice if/when it's a problem.

 

[ihatework]

You probably want the xrays before the shoeing so the farrier and vet can check foot balance.

It really depends on what the cause of pain is as to the long term outcome, but yes many many horses are successfully managed

 

[Tiddlypom]

^^^^
Seconded to get the foot balance X rays done ASAP so that the farrier can work to them from the off. Vet and farrier do need to work closely together.

My mare blocked lame to caudal area of all 4 feet after poor foot balance out on loan. We didn’t MRI, but vet reckoned on mild soft tissue damage all round. She is now pain free again in her feet after getting the foot balance sorted and gel injections into her front coffins. There are still niggles higher up behind which will probably restrict any future ridden career, but at least the feet are sorted.

She was in and out of shoes as this happened, and does best out of shoes, so we’ve stuck with that.

I was taking her in to clinic to get up to date X rays, and the farrier would come to clinic to shoe her to those on the same day.

 

[SEL]

Ditto x rays.

Only 1 hoof for mine. Vet's view is she has a soft tissue injury and it likely happened the same time as she did a hind suspensory, but the latter was more serious so we picked up on that (deep surface in a school). Ridden prognosis is guarded and given she isn't really any better in boots and pads than barefoot we've stuck with barefoot so she can continue to build a good heel while the damage hopefully repairs.

 

[[59668]]

Thank you all for the replies. Interesting what you say re xrays. The only reason we aren't is because she is booked in for her regular shoeing appt next thurs and I can't get her in for xrays before the middle of Jan now anyway. So vet and farrier spoke and are happy to go ahead.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Are you using the same farrier as before?

IME the foot balance X rays have gone on to confirm what the eye can see - that the original farrier or trimmer was creating the poor foot balance in the first place .

Long toe/low heel in my mares’ cases x 2.

 

[Gloi]

Have you posted any hoof pics in any of your threads?

 

[ponyparty]

Have a read of this guy’s FB page re: caudal hoof failure https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre/

Also The Equine Documentalist https://www.facebook.com/theequinedocumentalist/

I’d def recommend getting the x rays done first if possible so the vet and farrier can see exactly what’s going on in there.

 

[[59668]]

I am using the same farrier. vet is happy with this. He has commented that her shoeing/feet look good.

I have no option of xrays until Jan, which is when she will have them! And she needs new shoes next week. So there is really no difference/harm in putting remedial shoes on her next Thurs rather than normal shoes!

 

[j1ffy]

Mine was lame in one hoof (off-fore) and came sound quickly - went on to do long distance rides, BD to elementary, unaffiliated jumping at 80-85 (his scope limit). Still in full work and sound.

I agree that you need to look at the hoof balance. There's little point putting remedial shoes on without knowing what you need to remediate, at best you'll just cover up the problem rather than resolving the underlying issue. I would also aggressively treat for thrush as often a deep central sulcus split with the associated thrush can be a cause of caudal hoof pain.

 

[Goldenstar]

This a diagnosis that can lead to many outcomes.
Deep breath and wait to see what the diagnostics show .

 

[mustardsmum]

I can't see how you can do any remedial shoeing if you don't know what the issue is. You need the x-rays in case its something like broken back hoof pastern axis and you need wedges. If not a broken back hpa and you put wedges on, you could cause other problems. I would just have her shod as normal and wait for your xrays. But to be honest, I would expect my vet to be a bit more on it than saying they can't x-ray til January? I have one with broken back HPA and she was x-ray'd as soon as it was realised that the problem needed more investigation. Like yours, mine show bilateral lameness. Hope you manage to get to the bottom of it - our pony is sound in wedges but take them off and she is lame again and for her, barefoot will probably never be an option.

 

[sbloom]

Have a read of this guy’s FB page re: caudal hoof failure https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre/

Also The Equine Documentalist https://www.facebook.com/theequinedocumentalist/

I’d def recommend getting the x rays done first if possible so the vet and farrier can see exactly what’s going on in there.

Perfect, its the only way i woild want to shoe most horses now, I am a big barefoot advocate but finally we have great resources online and some progressive techniques. I think open heel shoes collapse is the best explanation for these issues I've ever seen.

I am using the same farrier. vet is happy with this. He has commented that her shoeing/feet look good.

I have no option of xrays until Jan, which is when she will have them! And she needs new shoes next week. So there is really no difference/harm in putting remedial shoes on her next Thurs rather than normal shoes!

I can't see how you can do any remedial shoeing if you don't know what the issue is. You need the x-rays in case its something like broken back hoof pastern axis and you need wedges. If not a broken back hpa and you put wedges on, you could cause other problems. I would just have her shod as normal and wait for your xrays. But to be honest, I would expect my vet to be a bit more on it than saying they can't x-ray til January? I have one with broken back HPA and she was x-ray'd as soon as it was realised that the problem needed more investigation. Like yours, mine show bilateral lameness. Hope you manage to get to the bottom of it - our pony is sound in wedges but take them off and she is lame again and for her, barefoot will probably never be an option.

Difficult situation, I woild definitely want xrays for shoeing. Do read the links above, farriery is probably,y the number one cause of heel pain, though it can happen as part of another syndrome and can certainly cause other issues. I woukd consider having someone like The Osteopathic Vet assess the horse for what should be tackled first, he posted on his FB page recently on this, as issues are seldom isolated, and need tackling in the right order. Its a different way of looking at things so I understanding may seem OTT and make you roll your eyes.

Ultimately, if it's farriery that has caused it, is your current farrier the best person to fix it? Food for thought.

 

[[59668]]

Perfect, its the only way i woild want to shoe most horses now, I am a big barefoot advocate but finally we have great resources online and some progressive techniques. I think open heel shoes collapse is the best explanation for these issues I've ever seen.





Difficult situation, I woild definitely want xrays for shoeing. Do read the links above, farriery is probably,y the number one cause of heel pain, though it can happen as part of another syndrome and can certainly cause other issues. I woukd consider having someone like The Osteopathic Vet assess the horse for what should be tackled first, he posted on his FB page recently on this, as issues are seldom isolated, and need tackling in the right order. Its a different way of looking at things so I understanding may seem OTT and make you roll your eyes.

Ultimately, if it's farriery that has caused it, is your current farrier the best person to fix it? Food for thought.

Yeah I get that, but at the moment, until I have a more complete picture, until jan 4th when she is xrayed, I don't know farriery has caused it! I can't sack the farrier based on nothing!
All I know is she has heel pain. That's it. So if, until jan 4th, I can try something shoeing wise that may make her more comfy, of course I will try this!
I'm not saying no to anything. I'm reading everything. I'm listening to everything. Including my vet and farrier. Who know the horse.

 

[tallyho!]

Did they say what has caused the "caudal heel pain"? Contracted heels? Sheared heels?

It would be great if you could get some photos from the floor? Side view, front and back?

 

[ponyparty]

Perfect, its the only way i woild want to shoe most horses now, I am a big barefoot advocate but finally we have great resources online and some progressive techniques. I think open heel shoes collapse is the best explanation for these issues I've ever seen.

I hope by the time I get my next horse that this way of shoeing has become, if not the norm, at least easily accessible. I struggled with barefoot for my boy and put shoes back on, but I knew in my heart of hearts that shoes weren’t doing him any good either. This is like the missing link. It explains so much! And is evidence based.

 

[[59668]]

Did they say what has caused the "caudal heel pain"? Contracted heels? Sheared heels?

It would be great if you could get some photos from the floor? Side view, front and back?

I appreciate that you want to help but I'm not looking for 3rd party opinions right now. I'm overwhelmed with emotions and reading about this as it is, and want to hear what the farrier has to say on thurs, and the vet after the xrays before I start looking for other thoughts.

 

[sbloom]

Did they say what has caused the "caudal heel pain"? Contracted heels? Sheared heels?

It would be great if you could get some photos from the floor? Side view, front and back?

In many ways it matters not, have you seen those links above? It brings a whole new paradigm to these issues. Sheared heels is broadly where contracted heels can end up if not corrected, but this prolapse through open heel shoes approach explains so much.

 

[Scarlett]

I've had two horses return to full, and more, work from caudal heel pain diagnosis. My other horses exhibited issues but didn't receive a full, official diagnosis.

During the process I was told by my vets that 90% of hoof issues are caused by the person looking after them, ie the farrier, and the only way to fix them was to remove shoes. So we got rid of the farrier, pulled the shoes, let the feet sort themselves out and the horses came sound. Horses are all still in work without shoes 7 years later.

My horses were all done by the same farrier, they all had the same issues. I didn't know enough to know it wasn't OK. We're very much told how wonderful our farriers are, without anyone really knowing what they are actually doing and what good or bad shoeing is. I see it all the time.

Horses feet rarely just get issues on their own. Heels don't shear in their own. Digital cushions don't get weak by themselves. Something causes it. Until you get rid of the cause and repair the damage you won't see an improvement.

 

[milliepops]

I appreciate that you want to help but I'm not looking for 3rd party opinions right now. I'm overwhelmed with emotions and reading about this as it is, and want to hear what the farrier has to say on thurs, and the vet after the xrays before I start looking for other thoughts.

just wanted to say I think it's great that people are giving you suggestions but I totally understand that horrible limbo period where you're stuck waiting for an appointment to be able to get more information. and in the meantime if the horse is due to be shod, then it's due to be shod, regardless. there's not a lot you can do about that right now, better to at least be on top of the normal maintenance than let it get overdue which would possibly cloud the issue further. Hope the xrays in the new year are helpful and give you all a clear way forward.

 

[[59668]]

just wanted to say I think it's great that people are giving you suggestions but I totally understand that horrible limbo period where you're stuck waiting for an appointment to be able to get more information. and in the meantime if the horse is due to be shod, then it's due to be shod, regardless. there's not a lot you can do about that right now, better to at least be on top of the normal maintenance than let it get overdue which would possibly cloud the issue further. Hope the xrays in the new year are helpful and give you all a clear way forward.

Thank you! I'm just feeling a little overwhelmed, worried, and sad

 

[milliepops]

understandable. I bet 4th Jan feels a long way off at the moment, too. it's horrible when you are just waiting.

 

[tallyho!]

In many ways it matters not, have you seen those links above? It brings a whole new paradigm to these issues. Sheared heels is broadly where contracted heels can end up if not corrected, but this prolapse through open heel shoes approach explains so much.

Yes you're probably right but I would not want to manage a contracted heel the same way as a prolapsed heel.

I appreciate that you want to help but I'm not looking for 3rd party opinions right now. I'm overwhelmed with emotions and reading about this as it is, and want to hear what the farrier has to say on thurs, and the vet after the xrays before I start looking for other thoughts.

No worries. Good luck. 10 years ago my boy came sound and completed many ht after going barefoot so there is absolutely plenty of chance yours will come sound if you do it right. Didn't take very long either. He had contracted heels with very weak digital cushion after being shod in closed shoes through a "remedial" farrier. for "navicular Pain". I think if I had continued to listen to the experts he would have been dead instead of being alive still at 20yo.

 

[sbloom]

Yes you're probably right but I would not want to manage a contracted heel the same way as a prolapsed heel.

The Equine Documentalist and Progressive Equine Services would, I think argue that they're just degrees of prolapse, their approach is fascinating.

 

[ycbm]

The answer is nearly always the same, isn't it? However it is done, the frog has to be in work. ( Though most horses in standard metal shoes will manage fine with 3 months a year out of them. )

I don't get how, after all these years now that people around the world have been proving otherwise, so many of our farriers and vets still think the answer to caudal hoof pain is metal bar shoes, still less wedges

 

[sbloom]

The answer is nearly always the same, isn't it? However it is done, the frog has to be in work. ( Though most horses in standard metal shoes will manage fine with 3 months a year out of them. )

I don't get how, after all these years now that people around the world have been proving otherwise, so many of our farriers and vets still think the answer to caudal hoof pain is metal bar shoes, still less wedges

Have a look at the links, seriously. I was with you, but the evidence they have, across hundreds, maybe thousands of horses, shows different. But their wedges, pads and shoes are composite, with very cleverly designed support across the whole of the back of the hoof. The only thing I worry about is correcting HPA, as they do, as an immediate thing, rather than a holistic assessment of what needs unpicking first.

 

[paddy555]

The answer is nearly always the same, isn't it? However it is done, the frog has to be in work. ( Though most horses in standard metal shoes will manage fine with 3 months a year out of them. )

I don't get how, after all these years now that people around the world have been proving otherwise, so many of our farriers and vets still think the answer to caudal hoof pain is metal bar shoes, still less wedges

yes it gets a bit depressing. First thing I would be doing with this sort of horse would be having a good poke in the central sulchus and seeing if the horse was feeling anything. ie if he was sore there. So many in shoes have contraction and infection/soreness in the sulchus but I think some vets are so used to poor quality frogs on shod horses they just seem to think, sadly, it is normal.

 

[ycbm]

Have a look at the links, seriously. I was with you, but the evidence they have, across hundreds, maybe thousands of horses, shows different. But their wedges, pads and shoes are composite, with very cleverly designed support across the whole of the back of the hoof. The only thing I worry about is correcting HPA, as they do, as an immediate thing, rather than a holistic assessment of what needs unpicking first.

I don't understand what you're disagreeing with SB. The site you point to is all about getting the frog into work, for example with plastic back bar shoes, as far as I can see. I think we agree. The frog must work properly, and in open shoes and metal bars and wedges, it can't.

 

[sbloom]

I don't understand what you're disagreeing with SB. The site you point to is all about getting the frog into work, for example with plastic back bar shoes, as far as I can see. I think we agree. The frog must work properly, and in open shoes and metal bars and wedges, it can't.

They use wedges all the time, correcting the HPA immediately is their priority but absolutely, they do it with very clever shoes that cover the whole of the back of the hoof. It is however the opposite approach to trimming the heels to the widest part which is the more common approach by progressive trimmers and farriers to getting the frog into contact with the ground.