Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
"Good" being relative in this context ...
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
PurpleSpots
Well-Known Member
Not sure if it's ok to share the link as something was mentioned in this thread about not doing that a while back IIRC, but there's a new update about the mare in the CDJ video. Happy to share the link if it is allowed?
Janique
Well-Known Member
Thank you LEC for you insight, it's very interesting.
Yes, you are right Barbara is a great rider, very gusty and brave, i guess the pressure was too much, she has been going abroad a lot
lately and was very sucessful with Canice.
The commentator kept saying that whatever happen, she always keeps going forwards.
She is a very good rider of young horses too, at young horses show, she ride so many, that people have to wait for her to be ready.
For Marting Fuchs, the pressure was too much but even if the poles are light, i really hope the horses didn't get hurt.
Markus Ehning looked very upset, guess every rider can make a mistake.
For King Edward, the commentator said maybe the horses needed a break, apparently, he has been having stops lately,
at the Olympics, it looked like Endrick von Erckermann messed his stride completly and they went seprarate way.
For Catch me not, hopefully, it's his last season.
The organiser did all they could, big stables, big showers for the horses, prizes for the groom and so on, it's a good show,
for some reasons, the last class got too much for some riders,
Yes, you are right Barbara is a great rider, very gusty and brave, i guess the pressure was too much, she has been going abroad a lot
lately and was very sucessful with Canice.
The commentator kept saying that whatever happen, she always keeps going forwards.
She is a very good rider of young horses too, at young horses show, she ride so many, that people have to wait for her to be ready.
For Marting Fuchs, the pressure was too much but even if the poles are light, i really hope the horses didn't get hurt.
Markus Ehning looked very upset, guess every rider can make a mistake.
For King Edward, the commentator said maybe the horses needed a break, apparently, he has been having stops lately,
at the Olympics, it looked like Endrick von Erckermann messed his stride completly and they went seprarate way.
For Catch me not, hopefully, it's his last season.
The organiser did all they could, big stables, big showers for the horses, prizes for the groom and so on, it's a good show,
for some reasons, the last class got too much for some riders,
TheMule
Well-Known Member
It's hard to follow your trail when you have got so many names totally wrong and your commentary of what happened is inaccurate, at best.
There were some misses (that’s what high pressure at the top of the sport will do), but this is a thread about abuse of horses in the sport and there was none on show here.
It’s hard to make sense of some of your posts.
Martin’s horse looked absolutely fine. He had a great win in the Top 10 earlier in the week
King Edward had the same run out in the jump off for the Top 10 but he has been in good form recently. He didn’t stop or run out at the Olympics, his fall was unrelated to a jump. He has done 4 5* shows since the Olympics and has jumped clear in 6 out of 7 1.60 first rounds. Henrik is an incredible horseman who will go away and figure out why he chose the side door off the right turn twice.
Catch Me Not jumped a really classy clear in the first round but yes, I’m sure he won’t keep going with him for much longer because of his age.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Well how long has Harrie been knocking on the door with Monaco? That was the horses first major and Harry looked stunned that he had managed it. It’s a seriously big class that they all want to win. I think I find it really sad that the highest ranked woman is something like 24th in the world. That’s very telling.
reynold
Well-Known Member
Is Denmark going to ban the double bridle?
Proposed recommendations on a double bridle ban in Denmark spark debate in the European Parliament as critics warn of welfare implications
www.horseandhound.co.uk
Things are now getting serious - legislation to ban double bridles and curb bits being discussed near government level in Denmark and also at the EU.
From the article:
--------------------------------
“The council did not initially propose to ban certain types of equipment but pointed out that the evaluation should take into account that even though some equipment may be used in certain situations without causing discomfort or the like to the horse, the equipment in question may be so difficult to use correctly that its use must either cease completely or be limited to persons who are particularly qualified to both use the equipment and at the same time be able to assess the horse’s possible conflict behaviour or signals of discomfort or pain,” the report states.
“Seen in the light of the documentation and debate since the publication of the council’s statement, where signs of discomfort, pain and conflict behaviour can still be observed in the horses of even the most highly prized riders, the council today, however, considers that there is a legal need to ban certain types of equipment.”
Among the proposals is a ban on “bits that entail a significant risk of cutting off the blood supply to the horse’s tongue e.g. curb bits.” The council also recommends banning “subjecting horses to exercises that they are not physically or behaviorally suitable to perform, e.g. holding the bridge of the nose behind the vertical.”
-------------------------------------
Also Denmark now 'legislated' within horse racing:
In response to the recommendations, the Danish horseracing authority has banned tongue ties, pelham bits and Dutch gags.
Equi
Well-Known Member
I admit it would be very interesting to see some of the current top horses suddenly have to go in a snaffle with no spurs.
That being said, I don’t know if banning the double bridle will help welfare. It may have the undesirable effect of making the riders even more hangyon to the mouth, pull harder. I wonder how long it takes to completely retrain a top dressage horse? And in SJ, surely many who have half a tack room on their faces will be out of competition because they can’t be controlled at all. I also wouldn’t fancy trying to slow a big competition maxi-cob
So where will these horses go? Who will buy them? But in 10 years when the next set of horses has only ever had a snaffle, it may have the effect of the top horses actually being more personable characters rather than flaming beasts of hotness.
That being said, I don’t know if banning the double bridle will help welfare. It may have the undesirable effect of making the riders even more hangyon to the mouth, pull harder. I wonder how long it takes to completely retrain a top dressage horse? And in SJ, surely many who have half a tack room on their faces will be out of competition because they can’t be controlled at all. I also wouldn’t fancy trying to slow a big competition maxi-cob
So where will these horses go? Who will buy them? But in 10 years when the next set of horses has only ever had a snaffle, it may have the effect of the top horses actually being more personable characters rather than flaming beasts of hotness.
j1ffy
Well-Known Member
All dressage horses start out in a snaffle. The vast majority of riders will also ride them regularly in a snaffle so none will need 're-training'. There may be a few less experienced, over-horsed riders who struggle but I don't think any of the top riders would.I admit it would be very interesting to see some of the current top horses suddenly have to go in a snaffle with no spurs.
That being said, I don’t know if banning the double bridle will help welfare. It may have the undesirable effect of making the riders even more hangyon to the mouth, pull harder. I wonder how long it takes to completely retrain a top dressage horse? And in SJ, surely many who have half a tack room on their faces will be out of competition because they can’t be controlled at all. I also wouldn’t fancy trying to slow a big competition maxi-cob
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
If you change nothing because some already exist, it continues and will never change because there will always be more horses trained in that way. Better to make the change now and see future horses going well without that equipment.
If the horse is unable to be ridden round a dressage test in a snaffle, or a SJ round without a head full of tack, it shouldn't be competing at that level.
A maxi cob should be trained in such a way that it does not require heavy hands or bits to "control". It should be physically and muscularly strong, yes, but happy in its job and not fighting the rider.
If the horse is unable to be ridden round a dressage test in a snaffle, or a SJ round without a head full of tack, it shouldn't be competing at that level.
A maxi cob should be trained in such a way that it does not require heavy hands or bits to "control". It should be physically and muscularly strong, yes, but happy in its job and not fighting the rider.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Sometimes a head full of tack is actually a hackamore and a snaffle in sjing.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
And sometimes it's not
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
But a hackamore is a very severe piece of equipment if used incorrectly , same as the double bridle , it’s the incorrect use that is the main problem and a snaffle can cause great deal of pain if used harshly , I admit I would like spurs banned especially for children
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Also things which cause pain - fat people especially in too small saddles, bilaterally lame horses, laminitis, obesity and constantly kicking and do you know what I see 99x more than top level sjers in less than aesthetically pleasing tack? Yep the above.
There is a vlog out today that will be watched by thousands of people that is so inappropriate to social licence and is horrible to watch but it will pass over with everyone saying how fun it is and yet we are shooting down people who ride in hackamores appropriately at top level competition probably because it’s easier to shoot down pros.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
I admit it would be very interesting to see some of the current top horses suddenly have to go in a snaffle with no spurs.
That being said, I don’t know if banning the double bridle will help welfare. It may have the undesirable effect of making the riders even more hangyon to the mouth, pull harder. I wonder how long it takes to completely retrain a top dressage horse? And in SJ, surely many who have half a tack room on their faces will be out of competition because they can’t be controlled at all. I also wouldn’t fancy trying to slow a big competition maxi-cob
Or extra marks for doing the test well in a snaffle? Might show up a few people
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
While I don't doubt that top riders are all much better than me at riding, I have witnessed too many things that pros have done to their horses that I now mistrust 90% of them.
ETA Witnessed in person with my own eyes and not just from videos on the Internet.
ETA Witnessed in person with my own eyes and not just from videos on the Internet.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
I Think everyone is culpable. I don’t think amateurs who LOOOOOOVVVVVEEEE their horses but ride them with issues, don’t improve their riding and miss signs of stress etc are any better. In fact I would rather my horse went to a pro as it’s black and white which horses deal with better and they are often managed better. Like amateurs for every decent pro there are 6 crap ones but as there is no qualification, licence or professional body for being a pro unlike Germany then it will carry on.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
I get your point, and amateur riding does need improvement, but I haven't ever seen deliberate (rather than ignorant) cruelty from amateurs like I have witnessed from pros (including much lauded riders)
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
I don't think it does the horses many favours to be getting into which is worse than which (this thing or that thing, amateurs or pros). I think (hope?) most people one here want improvements for horse welfare all round.
That said, for me, there is an element of 'should know better' for professionals.
That said, for me, there is an element of 'should know better' for professionals.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
For me pros do need to make sure they are setting the correct example from training and from competing as that is what filters down to amateurs and helps improve horse welfare for all.
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
Yes definitely this too!
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
Who's vlog?
Michen
Well-Known Member
I'm curious to know this too as have recently starting watching the vlogging thing
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
You only need to scroll through a few recent threads to see that people on here are generally as damning about what happens at the lower levels as they are about the publicly awful stuff happening at the top end.
I don’t see that the existence of either means that the other shouldn’t be addressed, and as an argument for not calling top level riders out, it’s pretty weak.
I don’t see that the existence of either means that the other shouldn’t be addressed, and as an argument for not calling top level riders out, it’s pretty weak.
rabatsa
Confuddled
Surely professional only means getting paid and making a living out of horses. Dealers both high end and low end will come into this category as well as those riders who have rich parents who fund them setting up a yard.
Professional does not indicate any training for the job they do.
The good ones will have taken the time to train and learn their job but there is no guarantee that there are no holes in this education.
Professional does not indicate any training for the job they do.
The good ones will have taken the time to train and learn their job but there is no guarantee that there are no holes in this education.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
It’s not an argument about not calling out top riders it’s tarring every pro as bad as someone did. Why pick up on amateurs because they start throwing stones at glass houses when their own homes are built on sand.
The sad part is it will not make any difference. A lot of pros I have spoken to don’t think what Charlotte did was that bad and were expecting it to be far worse. They have just become more paranoid about videoing and how they present themselves. So ultimately all this is fracile. Which is why I get annoyed about people making a fuss about stupid stuff like spurs and biting etc when the underlying culture is the issue. There will be a new generation coming through who will be different in their training and management but it takes time. They also need to win with being kinder and better in their training as ultimately if you don’t win then nothing will change.
reynold
Well-Known Member
Will be interesting to watch the London dressage GP tonight.....
Red button from 7.15pm
Red button from 7.15pm
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
This is a thread about pros. We can definitely have one about amateurs, but people will be talking about pros on this one.
The fact that many allegedly don’t seem to mind what CDJ did and are now “paranoid” about their own actions being filmed is exactly the point. You rarely change an embedded culture in sport without a governing body first taking a public stance.
The fact that many allegedly don’t seem to mind what CDJ did and are now “paranoid” about their own actions being filmed is exactly the point. You rarely change an embedded culture in sport without a governing body first taking a public stance.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Maybe making a fuss about the "stupid stuff" that is evidenced in public will mean that the rest is called into question too, and won't be so easily hidden? Surely that would be a good thing?
PurpleSpots
Well-Known Member
If the pros aren't going to look inwards and assess themselves, and the governing bodies aren't going to spontaneously change the rules, it's left to other people who care about horses to make a noise about it until appropriate change happens. Simple.
Janique
Well-Known Member
Hooray !
France is now talking about banning the whip in the ridden trotters and restricting it with the harness trotters !
Like usual, people are scared that the races will stop, that horses will go the butcher, that the trainers will give up and that the staff will lose their jobs....
Changes is scary but it's the only way forwards, bet you that in a year's time, the professionnal will think that after all, it was a good idea.
France is now talking about banning the whip in the ridden trotters and restricting it with the harness trotters !
Like usual, people are scared that the races will stop, that horses will go the butcher, that the trainers will give up and that the staff will lose their jobs....
Changes is scary but it's the only way forwards, bet you that in a year's time, the professionnal will think that after all, it was a good idea.