CDJ withdrawn from paris

reynold said:
www.horseandhound.co.uk

FEI World Cup organisers to partner with horse welfare organisation

Ahead of the FEI World Cup Finals 2024 in Basel, the organisers have announced they will partner with a dedicated horse welfare organisation.
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk

Interesting but how effective? Applies to the FEI World Cup finals 2-6th April in Switzerland.

From the article:

------------------------------

Although the zero-tolerance policy marks a strong stance, FEI event organisers do not have the authority to disqualify or eliminate a rider – such decisions must be made by FEI officials, including the ground jury.

But organisers can escalate concerns regarding misconduct or welfare violations to FEI stewards, the ground jury, or veterinary officials, who have the power to take disciplinary action.

Switzerland has some of the world’s most stringent animal welfare laws, which operate independently of FEI regulations. The country’s Animal Welfare Act and Ordinance set clear restrictions on training methods and equipment, in some cases going beyond FEI rules.

As a result, organisers in Basel must navigate both international and national regulations, potentially adding another layer of scrutiny to how welfare violations are handled.
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I'm not that sure about the welfare organisation tbh (https://www.r-haltenswert.de/#anker-about). It looks new, and potentially a project of industry insiders. The website is just superficial froth with cute video banners of herds of horses in fields - all very fluffy bunny and yet nothing that suggests they understand or are engaging with the welfare problems that exist or are thinking up ways of making horse sport better for horses. I am dubious. Also as your quote suggests - the organisers are fairly powerless, although they could possibly make the stewards' lives a bit more challenging.
 
reynold said:
www.horseandhound.co.uk

FEI World Cup organisers to partner with horse welfare organisation

Ahead of the FEI World Cup Finals 2024 in Basel, the organisers have announced they will partner with a dedicated horse welfare organisation.
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk

Interesting but how effective? Applies to the FEI World Cup finals 2-6th April in Switzerland.

From the article:

------------------------------

Although the zero-tolerance policy marks a strong stance, FEI event organisers do not have the authority to disqualify or eliminate a rider – such decisions must be made by FEI officials, including the ground jury.

But organisers can escalate concerns regarding misconduct or welfare violations to FEI stewards, the ground jury, or veterinary officials, who have the power to take disciplinary action.

Switzerland has some of the world’s most stringent animal welfare laws, which operate independently of FEI regulations. The country’s Animal Welfare Act and Ordinance set clear restrictions on training methods and equipment, in some cases going beyond FEI rules.

As a result, organisers in Basel must navigate both international and national regulations, potentially adding another layer of scrutiny to how welfare violations are handled.
Click to expand...
Interesting
 
Burnttoast said:
I'm not that sure about the welfare organisation tbh (https://www.r-haltenswert.de/#anker-about). It looks new, and potentially a project of industry insiders. The website is just superficial froth with cute video banners of herds of horses in fields - all very fluffy bunny and yet nothing that suggests they understand or are engaging with the welfare problems that exist or are thinking up ways of making horse sport better for horses. I am dubious. Also as your quote suggests - the organisers are fairly powerless, although they could possibly make the stewards' lives a bit more challenging.
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Sadly I think you are correct .
 
reynold said:
www.horseandhound.co.uk

FEI World Cup organisers to partner with horse welfare organisation

Ahead of the FEI World Cup Finals 2024 in Basel, the organisers have announced they will partner with a dedicated horse welfare organisation.
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk

Interesting but how effective? Applies to the FEI World Cup finals 2-6th April in Switzerland.

From the article:

------------------------------

Although the zero-tolerance policy marks a strong stance, FEI event organisers do not have the authority to disqualify or eliminate a rider – such decisions must be made by FEI officials, including the ground jury.

But organisers can escalate concerns regarding misconduct or welfare violations to FEI stewards, the ground jury, or veterinary officials, who have the power to take disciplinary action.

Switzerland has some of the world’s most stringent animal welfare laws, which operate independently of FEI regulations. The country’s Animal Welfare Act and Ordinance set clear restrictions on training methods and equipment, in some cases going beyond FEI rules.

As a result, organisers in Basel must navigate both international and national regulations, potentially adding another layer of scrutiny to how welfare violations are handled.
Click to expand...
Well to be fair to Switzerland it does currently have some of the toughest animal welfare regulations.It will be interesting to see which competitors turn up.
 
The Dutch have passed a motion to 'ban' certain types of 'cruel' tack. This is in conjunction with an 'animal rights' type group in their country that sound a bit like PETA.

According to H&H report the list includes whips, spurs, tongue ties and BITS.

Must admit I wouldn't fancy riding a racehorse without a bit....

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Dutch parliament backs motion to ban certain tack and training aids

Dutch lawmakers have backed a motion to ban inhumane tack, but questions remain over its enforcement – and whether bits, spurs, and whips will be included
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk
 
reynold said:
The Dutch have passed a motion to 'ban' certain types of 'cruel' tack. This is in conjunction with an 'animal rights' type group in their country that sound a bit like PETA.

According to H&H report the list includes whips, spurs, tongue ties and BITS.

Must admit I wouldn't fancy riding a racehorse without a bit....

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Dutch parliament backs motion to ban certain tack and training aids

Dutch lawmakers have backed a motion to ban inhumane tack, but questions remain over its enforcement – and whether bits, spurs, and whips will be included
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk
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Maybe that is going a bit too far but also though it is acting as a warning.Do some meaningful reform or we will do it for you and you may not like it.
 
Everyone is afraid of having our social license taken away if we make too much fuss. This is why the call for change group went quiet. The reality is that to be at the very top of any of the disciplines the training is harsh at best, frequently brutal and everyone at the top knows that to get there and stay there your training focuses on performance and winning not on what is best for the horse. Not unlike cycling - when everyone was juicing then everyone juiced (including Lance Armstrong) because that's the only way to level the field. We have to all change or not at all.

Personally, I like my sport, but I love my horse. If we lose social license to compete or even ride at all I might be disappointed but I will trade all that for being able to hear Bon's chitchat whiffles every evening.
 
reynold said:
The Dutch have passed a motion to 'ban' certain types of 'cruel' tack. This is in conjunction with an 'animal rights' type group in their country that sound a bit like PETA.

According to H&H report the list includes whips, spurs, tongue ties and BITS.

Must admit I wouldn't fancy riding a racehorse without a bit....

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Dutch parliament backs motion to ban certain tack and training aids

Dutch lawmakers have backed a motion to ban inhumane tack, but questions remain over its enforcement – and whether bits, spurs, and whips will be included
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk
Click to expand...

I know several ex-racers who are happily ridden bitless. Bitless isn't automatically better, but if someone has to 'bit-up' to control a horse then arguably they need to go back to groundwork.

Can't see any benefit to the horse of the whip or the spur, period. Not sure what a tongue tie is, sounds horrible.
 
Roxylola said:
Everyone is afraid of having our social license taken away if we make too much fuss. This is why the call for change group went quiet. The reality is that to be at the very top of any of the disciplines the training is harsh at best, frequently brutal and everyone at the top knows that to get there and stay there your training focuses on performance and winning not on what is best for the horse. Not unlike cycling - when everyone was juicing then everyone juiced (including Lance Armstrong) because that's the only way to level the field. We have to all change or not at all.

Personally, I like my sport, but I love my horse. If we lose social license to compete or even ride at all I might be disappointed but I will trade all that for being able to hear Bon's chitchat whiffles every evening.
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And don’t forget that social licence also includes things like riding schools. What happens at the top feeds what happens at the bottom.

The entire industry needs to take a long hard look at itself, but with the financial constraints some simply won’t see this as doable, which is a whole other ethical issue.
 
Roxylola said:
Everyone is afraid of having our social license taken away if we make too much fuss. This is why the call for change group went quiet. The reality is that to be at the very top of any of the disciplines the training is harsh at best, frequently brutal and everyone at the top knows that to get there and stay there your training focuses on performance and winning not on what is best for the horse. Not unlike cycling - when everyone was juicing then everyone juiced (including Lance Armstrong) because that's the only way to level the field. We have to all change or not at all.

Personally, I like my sport, but I love my horse. If we lose social license to compete or even ride at all I might be disappointed but I will trade all that for being able to hear Bon's chitchat whiffles every evening.
Click to expand...
You make an important point.To compete at the top of any equine sport you need a lot of money.If you are not independently very wealthy then you need owners and sponsors.People at that level want results.Cortez who used to message frequently on here was at one time,I gather,interested in dressage competition professionally until she found out what she had to do to get there.
 
ycbm said:
This looks the most relaxed and natural GP winning test I've seen in a long time, am I kidding myself?

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Mount St John Freestyle dances to +91% victory: ‘Proud is an understatement’

Cathrine Laudrup-Dufour and Mount St John Freestyle scored a sublime new personal best of 91.140% at Gothenburg’s World Cup leg
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk
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I do agree that it looks better than many. And the movements she's doing, coupled with the sequence of them, and the manner in which she's doing them, is impressive.

But if you watch the test again, focusing only on Freestyle's mouth, it tells a completely different story as to how the horse is feeling and coping with the work. Especially in the piaffe. The extended walk is I think the only movement where her mouth is quiet and closed. (There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of overtrack or throughness in the extended walk, and they don't score very highly for it, but assessing from the horse's comfort point of view it's the only movement that her mouth at least isn't communicating stress.)

For me, the only lasting impression I have of the test is, yet again, a horse compromising their body and mind to do what a human is requiring of them. I don't think it's possible to argue the case that the horse can be enjoying carrying out most of the test, and whilst I will likely be shot down for this post, I just don't think it is ok to think it is ok to do this to a horse. It truly is possible for horses to do these movements without undergoing physical and mental stress, and when they do there is an absence of stress and pain indicators.
 
Genuine question. I grew up thinking a horses' ears were the most expressive part of their body. Yes there is tail swishing/clamping, nose and eye wrinkling etc, but it was always accompanied by, and usually preceded by, signalling from the ears. Freestyles' ears are mostly pricked forwrds, sometimes sideways (which I associate with listening). Can someone say why?
 
Cragrat said:
Genuine question. I grew up thinking a horses' ears were the most expressive part of their body. Yes there is tail swishing/clamping, nose and eye wrinkling etc, but it was always accompanied by, and usually preceded by, signalling from the ears. Freestyles' ears are mostly pricked forwrds, sometimes sideways (which I associate with listening). Can someone say why?
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A quick google has offered this link - it's got some slide shows of images which are quite helpful. The ears need context from the rest of the horse to accurately interpret their meaning - the lips, nostrils, mouth, tail, eyes, stance, teeth, etc.

www.thewillingequine.com

Are You Listening // part two

Ears are an important part of equine body language, but are often misunderstood or completely ignored. Unfortunately it’s not as simple as “ears back means the horse is mad and ears forward means they are happy”. That’s something you get told during summer camp as a kid, but is an extreme over...
www.thewillingequine.com www.thewillingequine.com



Another link looking at multiple indicators a bit more thorougly: https://thehorse.com/164730/equine-body-language-7-signs-to-recognize/
 
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Is this another travesty or does this horse, which is now dead, just have naturally floppy ears? Why would you denerve the ears anyway, I wouldn't have thought it stops the horse hearing. Maybe it has plaques and heading sensitivity and won't tolerate the ear bonnet unless the ears are deadened?


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PurpleSpots said:
I do agree that it looks better than many. And the movements she's doing, coupled with the sequence of them, and the manner in which she's doing them, is impressive.

But if you watch the test again, focusing only on Freestyle's mouth, it tells a completely different story as to how the horse is feeling and coping with the work. Especially in the piaffe. The extended walk is I think the only movement where her mouth is quiet and closed. (There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of overtrack or throughness in the extended walk, and they don't score very highly for it, but assessing from the horse's comfort point of view it's the only movement that her mouth at least isn't communicating stress.)

For me, the only lasting impression I have of the test is, yet again, a horse compromising their body and mind to do what a human is requiring of them. I don't think it's possible to argue the case that the horse can be enjoying carrying out most of the test, and whilst I will likely be shot down for this post, I just don't think it is ok to think it is ok to do this to a horse. It truly is possible for horses to do these movements without undergoing physical and mental stress, and when they do there is an absence of stress and pain indicators.
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The open mouth was very obvious in the piaffe and looked to be through too much use of the curb - hopefully CLD will take a look and be softer in future, Freestyle is established and so beautifully trained that she doesn't need such strong aids from the look of it.

Re the ears - she's always had gorgeous floppy ears!
 
PurpleSpots said:
I do agree that it looks better than many. And the movements she's doing, coupled with the sequence of them, and the manner in which she's doing them, is impressive.

But if you watch the test again, focusing only on Freestyle's mouth, it tells a completely different story as to how the horse is feeling and coping with the work. Especially in the piaffe. The extended walk is I think the only movement where her mouth is quiet and closed. (There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of overtrack or throughness in the extended walk, and they don't score very highly for it, but assessing from the horse's comfort point of view it's the only movement that her mouth at least isn't communicating stress.)

For me, the only lasting impression I have of the test is, yet again, a horse compromising their body and mind to do what a human is requiring of them. I don't think it's possible to argue the case that the horse can be enjoying carrying out most of the test, and whilst I will likely be shot down for this post, I just don't think it is ok to think it is ok to do this to a horse. It truly is possible for horses to do these movements without undergoing physical and mental stress, and when they do there is an absence of stress and pain indicators.
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For me it is very robotic and lacks softness, cadence and flare. The mouth is very telling i think and the lack of ear movement is odd, even taking into account her wearing a bonnet.
 
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www.horseandhound.co.uk

Concerns raised over links between mouth opening and oral lesions in dressage

A link between continual mouth opening and the presence of oral lesions has been identified in dressage horses. A Danish study, published in October and presented at the International Society for Equitation Science 2024 conference, aimed to investigate if horses competing at upper national level...
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Interesting in light of the above discussion posts about Freestyle.

Denmark seems to be at a crossroads with Helgstrand on one side and research like this, with accompanying rule changes on the other.
 
ycbm said:
The ears are seriously odd though, Ester. I've never seen a horse do that with both ears and the only one I've seen do it with one ear had a kick to the face and never recovered control over his ear.
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She thinks freestyles have been nerved too, and tail at one point.

The other vid I’m sure the rider put up other vids and it did seem to be a bonnet effect, some horses are a bit weird 😅. I know one that has the floppiest sideways chill looking ears while also being a total ball of tension once you look at the rest of him.
 
Isn't it against the rules to use a bonnet that hampers natural ear movement? Because none of the ear movement (or lack of) in the two last linked tests looks remotely natural. The idea that horses' means of expression are being restricted in any way to what's deemed desirable (front legs only, apparently) is a bit grim. It would be nice to be sure it wasn't the case but given we all know how tight some people are prepared to do up nosebands (all the way down the competitive tree, tbh) I don't see that anything can be discounted.
 
This appears under 'ear inserts': "Dressage notes - Any piece of tack that impairs the ears to move freely is forbidden." https://tack.fei.org/equipment/fe68...scipline=8e583f12-2922-41d6-8fd8-c0a2aa1d96e5

But this under fly/ear hoods: "Ear hoods are permitted for all Events and may also provide noise reduction. However, ear hoods must not cover the horse’s eyes and ear plugs are not permitted, with the exception of Horse Inspections and prize-giving ceremonies." https://tack.fei.org/equipment/b36e...scipline=8e583f12-2922-41d6-8fd8-c0a2aa1d96e5
 
Yup noiseless ears permitted, they can’t be noiseless if they don’t have more material/foam so they are a bit stiff 🤷‍♀️ and some horses are likely more sensitive to that than others

Ear inserts refers to things that go in the ear and are only permitted for some disciplines
 
ester said:
Yup noiseless ears permitted, they can’t be noiseless if they don’t have more material/foam so they are a bit stiff 🤷‍♀️ and some horses are likely more sensitive to that than others

Ear inserts refers to things that go in the ear and are only permitted for some disciplines
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But it says for dressage 'any piece of tack', and ear plugs are not allowed anyway. I'm not sure how I would interpret that. A few years ago a rules update specified that ear hoods should allow the ears to move (2019 I think) so has that now been dropped (and why)? OTOH I've used the noise reduction ones on my guy for fireworks and he could move his ears through pretty much the whole range while wearing them, so these horses should be able to do so (if they're physically able to move their ears) I would have thought.
 
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