CDJ withdrawn from paris

Andrew Kocher received a 10 year ban not so long ago for using electric spurs in competition but he still has a thriving business breeding, producing and schooling horses for competition. The bans may keep them out of the ring for a while and be career damaging in that respect, but rarely does it seem to really impact their reputation as it should do which tells me there’s still a huge part of the equestrian community that either finds this sort of abuse acceptable or turns a blind eye. 🫤
 
Janique said:
Not looking forward to the big Geneva horse show....

Every year, some terrible pictures come out, last year, it was Cayman Jolly Jumper from France, he had the whole tack room on his head and his chin on his chest....

This year, once more, the stewards will turn a blind eye.... it's like they are afraid to confront the big name...

After all, the top ten have the best ' riders `in the world....

Shame on Switzerland, they have no guts, only red carpet.....

As for the national horse magazine, le Cavalier romand, well they have pink tinted glasses and seems to be blind to everything that is going on.....
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Cayman JJ wears a lot of fluff but mostly just in a rubber Pelham or butterfly rubber bit with two reins. His noseband is just a plain cav but fluff front and back. He does also have bit rings. I have been to Geneva and not seen anything and spent hours watching the warm up. I watched king Edward being lunged as such a sharp horse. The worst thing I saw was Ben Maher a bit too deep and round for my liking warming up Dallas Vegas Batilly. The horse wasn't held there it was moments along with flexion left and right. No draw reins and just a snaffle and flash.

I have also been to Dublin 5* and that was more unpalatable with a lot more held down by draw reins into submission. McLain being one of the worst culprits. I watch a lot of warm ups..... I haven't seen a closed 5* warm up for sjing but think they are pretty close to unacceptable with the deep and round and something should be done. The difference is the sjers don't need to be good in the contact like dr horses and if you pressurise them too much they won't jump. Dr horses meanwhile can have the pressure continually being placed on....
 
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LEC said:
Cayman JJ wears a lot of fluff but mostly just in a rubber Pelham or butterfly rubber bit with two reins. His noseband is just a plain cav but fluff front and back. He does also have bit rings. I have been to Geneva and not seen anything and spent hours watching the warm up. I watched king Edward being lunged as such a sharp horse. The worst thing I saw was Ben Maher a bit too deep and round for my liking warming up Dallas Vegas Batilly. The horse wasn't held there it was moments along with flexion left and right. No draw reins and just a snaffle and flash.

I have also been to Dublin 5* and that was more unpalatable with a lot more held down by draw reins into submission. McLain being one of the worst culprits. I watch a lot of warm ups..... I haven't seen a closed 5* warm up for sjing but think they are pretty close to unacceptable with the deep and round and something should be done. The difference is the sjers don't need to be good in the contact like dr horses and if you pressurise them too much they won't jump. Dr horses meanwhile can have the pressure continually being placed on....
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I can't find the photo of Jolly Jumper but he was seriously over bend, it went round the social media a few months back.
Thinking about Christian K the German riding only in draw reins while it's forbidden in the rule book and seing people watching and not reacting,
i really think, that it's going from bad to worst tbh.
 
Janique said:
I can't find the photo of Jolly Jumper but he was seriously over bend, it went round the social media a few months back.
Thinking about Christian K the German riding only in draw reins while it's forbidden in the rule book and seing people watching and not reacting,
i really think, that it's going from bad to worst tbh.
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Was that the one with his mouth wide open? I think it was on Collectif pour les Chevaux's fb page.

The top post on that page at the moment is an apparent whistleblowing post and is not for the faint-hearted :(
 
Janique said:
I can't find the photo of Jolly Jumper but he was seriously over bend, it went round the social media a few months back.
Thinking about Christian K the German riding only in draw reins while it's forbidden in the rule book and seing people watching and not reacting,
i really think, that it's going from bad to worst tbh.
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I think there is a blindness to it and a level of tone deafness especially with ruling recently about blood. Almost too much influence from a few. It does need to improve the optics. I know why they do it as need a high level of submission but I think there are other ways to get the horse listening without draw reins and head by their chest. I have become increasingly more uncomfortable about it watching warm ups.

Ironically at BS shows you don't see it at all at shows I go to which are 1.30m and lower. I haven't seen it at 2* GP either in uk which I have attended which is 1.30/1.40.
 
I'm Dun said:
Sorry, i was being sarcastic as for a long time thats what people said, oh its just a moment in time, you cant tell anything, blah, blah, blah.
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Oh yes, sorry I realised what you meant but then just had to get that thing about the video out because other people did actually say that about it at the time and I still feel annoyed about it!
 
Wizpopagain said:
I too was amazed at all the positive, welcome back posts. I honestly can’t understand it. To me, if a person has it in their nature to treat a horse the way she did, then it’s in their nature. Full stop. No doubt- and hopefully, it will be controlled from now on- for the sake of her horses.
I could never trust a person caught out for cruelty.
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Exactly this! And the owners of the horses she rides must be very similar in their training style and what they think is acceptable. I know one of the owners has ridden for team GB and models for Le Mieux! So it’s all pretty awful!
 
I think that sadly we have to come to the conclusion that wherever there is money and animals involved, rarely is the welfare of the animal at the forefront. Be it at the top of the sport or in the horrific tourist spots around the world.

What's most sad is that horses are so forgiving and will continue to try their hardest even through they are being hurt, starved, beaten, in pain etc... we take such advantage of their allowing nature and I can't tell you how sad it all makes me. Victims of their own beautiful natures.

What's worse, is that you speak out about these people (mainly CDJ atm), and get constantly shut down by other 'horse lovers' who come at you with arguments like 'if you don't ride at that level, you can't comment'... which is insane. No one needs to ride at that level to understand right and wrong and if that's what it takes to ride at that level, I'd rather not! I can't understand how someone can be a horse lover, yet think what they saw in that video was in any way forgivable.
 
Off the top of my head, the only rider who competes at a high level who I truely enjoy watching these days is Carl Hedin from Sweden - he SJ's upto 150 and GP dressage and his horses seem to truely have a lot of fun in their training. He seems to geniunly love his animals and enjoy the training process... oth for competiton and just having fun with well educated safe horses that have seen the world. Him and a few eventers and that's about it!
 
Money and big business exloiting horses have a problem

The number of horse people who do not even like watching what is being presented because its incorrect is not to easy to cover up, impossible to justify, and I doubt if those backing the circus even have a clue why the tide has turned, because truly knowing horses is not something money can buy

Someone once said, you can fool some of the people some the time, but not all of the people all of the time

Those backing all this are making fools of themselves

I'm not even sure karma will need to do it, probably their own ignorance will make them ashamed in end because its happening in full view, we see it with our own eyes, it's not some business venture with layers to cover up covertly the goings on behind the scenes its out there in full view of the world for all to see
 
Trot_on said:
I think that sadly we have to come to the conclusion that wherever there is money and animals involved, rarely is the welfare of the animal at the forefront. Be it at the top of the sport or in the horrific tourist spots around the world.

What's most sad is that horses are so forgiving and will continue to try their hardest even through they are being hurt, starved, beaten, in pain etc... we take such advantage of their allowing nature and I can't tell you how sad it all makes me. Victims of their own beautiful natures.

What's worse, is that you speak out about these people (mainly CDJ atm), and get constantly shut down by other 'horse lovers' who come at you with arguments like 'if you don't ride at that level, you can't comment'... which is insane. No one needs to ride at that level to understand right and wrong and if that's what it takes to ride at that level, I'd rather not! I can't understand how someone can be a horse lover, yet think what they saw in that video was in any way forgivable.
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You are my type of person. Very well said.
 
tristars said:
Money and big business exloiting horses have a problem

The number of horse people who do not even like watching what is being presented because its incorrect is not to easy to cover up, impossible to justify, and I doubt if those backing the circus even have a clue why the tide has turned, because truly knowing horses is not something money can buy

Someone once said, you can fool some of the people some the time, but not all of the people all of the time

Those backing all this are making fools of themselves

I'm not even sure karma will need to do it, probably their own ignorance will make them ashamed in end because its happening in full view, we see it with our own eyes, it's not some business venture with layers to cover up covertly the goings on behind the scenes its out there in full view of the world for all to see
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Totally agree! Praying for karma but you are totally right, these supporters of CDJ just look really stupid!
 
Swish said:
Totally agree! Praying for karma but you are totally right, these supporters of CDJ just look really stupid!
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They do to us, but not to the majority of the dressage "fans" I see on social media. The koolaid has been in circulation for 40 years, we have a way to go yet.
 
Burnttoast said:
www.ridehesten.com

2,5 times retsmøde i omstridt sag

Efter endnu etretsmøde i retten i Næstved meddelte dommeren, at dommen først vil blive afsagt i november,uden parterne Tribler og Hesselhøj skal møde personligt
www.ridehesten.com www.ridehesten.com

In Denmark, a rider is suing a technical delegate for libel over a report she wrote describing his riding as 'violent and unacceptable', despite the fact that he got a suspension off the back of it that was upheld on appeal (as far as I can make out). ...
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Further to this, fortunately the steward has been acquitted. I think the idea of stewarding horse sport to ensure welfare would be over if she hadn't been.

eurodressage.com

Steward Acquitted in Controversial Animal Welfare Case in Denmark

Show steward Birgitte Tribler has been acquitted of libel in connection with her report on Anders Sjobeck Hoeck riding too hard in the warm-up of the Danish Warmblood mare performance test in August 2023.
eurodressage.com eurodressage.com
 
Burnttoast said:
Further to this, fortunately the steward has been acquitted. I think the idea of stewarding horse sport to ensure welfare would be over if she hadn't been.

eurodressage.com

Steward Acquitted in Controversial Animal Welfare Case in Denmark

Show steward Birgitte Tribler has been acquitted of libel in connection with her report on Anders Sjobeck Hoeck riding too hard in the warm-up of the Danish Warmblood mare performance test in August 2023.
eurodressage.com eurodressage.com
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That is a relief.

As you say, if she hadn't been acquitted, it would have rendered stewards even more toothless than they are now.
 
Trot_on said:
Off the top of my head, the only rider who competes at a high level who I truely enjoy watching these days is Carl Hedin from Sweden - he SJ's upto 150 and GP dressage and his horses seem to truely have a lot of fun in their training. He seems to geniunly love his animals and enjoy the training process... oth for competiton and just having fun with well educated safe horses that have seen the world. Him and a few eventers and that's about it!
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They live outside in groups, barefoot and he does a lot of work bareback. He's awesome.
 
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