Ceasar whatshisface video

i have always disliked Ceasar and have only ever watched it out of sheer morbid curiosity but often find myself wincing and growling at it.

The only thing i have ever learnt from him that is useful is his 'chhh' noise, that my big dog seems to respond very well too - definately no physical contact!!
 
That was the wrong approach to use with the inuit - I remember seeing that episode, or a similar one (the one where the dog ripped his shirt?) and thinking the same at the time. I wouldn't like to see him try and roll that one either!

There were also a couple of other clips where I felt it was an inappropriate approach for the dog in question (the goldie, for example) - as far as one can tell from a brief clip, anyway.

That said, broadly speaking I don't have a problem with physical correction whether from hand, boot or collar and lead if it's appropriate and effective for that dog.
 
Just going to put a hard helmet on to protect me from the abuse I am sure to receive :) here goes.......

I can not stand the guy or anything he stands for, so I can put a unbiased point of view across I have watched his tv show and read his books. I am also a veterinary nurse with 19yrs experience mostly working with a national dog welfare charity.

Firstly it worries me when at the start of the programme's it says no animals were harmed during the making of the series and not to try the methods at home, to me that rings alarm bells!! Secondly these dogs are seriously stressed when he is using his methods on them, if you don't believe me just try turning the sound off so you're not listening to his waffle and just watch the dogs body language, they are showing classic stress signs and are shutting down. The classic episode that I've seen is the dog that was barking when the motorbike was switched on, that was cruelty pure and simple and NO way did that dog need a prong collar on it. To me if you don't want your dog to bark when you switch your motorbike on then don't have it in the same room but perhaps I look for the common sense option :rolleyes:

He has put dog training/behaviour back into the dark ages and in my opinion he is on a par with the parelli's. It's cruelty pure and simple xx
 
Well how much whoompf can you put into a behind your other leg onto the dog move? Me? Barely a nudge,but it works if a welfare is zoned out,just reminds them to tune in,that`s all it`s for. I suppose using whatever training suits in your situation is the answer.Cesar has to get results mostly from numpties who can`t train a fly,his results need to be fairly instant,and they seem to work.I have a friend in Germany whose eight mini bull terriers have impeccable manners yet are very out going bouncy dogs,all achieved through his methods. As one ,all her dogs retire to their beds with no command as soon as food is laid at the table,it is amazing.So,no I do not liken him to Parelli..more Monty Roberts,and there is nothing wrong with that man`s methods.
So what about the Dog Borstal team.....views??
 
The ones that leapt out were the Retriever, the small cross husky/GSD thing, the dog on the chain with loads of other dogs and that big fecking huge husky type thing as completely inappropriate.

I **think** I had seen footage of him choking/hanging the latter dog because it had come at his arm. Which, taken in isolation, I didn't have a huge problem with.

That big fecking husky type thing...wow, that dog is just reacting to pain and standing up for itself and unless you hog tie it, you will have to up the fight and up the fight...but a dog of that size will ALWAYS win if you want to fight it :(

The timing with use of the prong with the GSDs was completely inappropriate in my opinion, you don't set up a Mexican stand-off with two dogs, then jab the dog in the neck AFTER it has gone on the offensive.

By and large I do think he talks a lot of sense in terms of the way we see our dogs day to day but that is not very flattering at all.
 
I like him as a person and i think he believes what he is doing is right but his methods are awful and abuse in many cases.

They did and exposing show here a few months ago which caught up with like 200 of the dogs on the shows and almost none of them were any better and many were far far worse.
 
Re: the kicking of dogs (and the odd finger jab thing he does too- because a human poking a dog is JUST like a mother's correction. Mhm.) if he wants to kick and prod his own dogs then fine. Each to their own. But showing it on T.V encourages others to follow suit, warnings or not. How soon before some numpty kicks the wrong dog at the wrong time and ends up in A&E having his leg stitched back together? Rather costly way of breaking your dog's focus IMO :p

Regarding Cesar in general.... If I'm completely honest I think he's a bit of a tool. The only useful points I've heard him make are to exercise your dog and stop treating it like a mini human. Doesn't take a magical doggy whisperer to figure that out does it?

And don't get me started on all the 'energy' voodoo. Is the physiological stress response really such a massive secret? Is it really so hard to believe that a social animal like a dog might be able to pick up on this highly important evolutionary adaptation that we happen to share?


I'm with Supertrooper. He's a doggy Parelli, and I don't think all that much of them either :p He presents unsubstantiated theories and ideas as facts, and as somebody who studies behaviour (albeit human) I find it slightly offensive.


Now.... where did I leave that bl**dy tin hat..... :D:p
 
In my experience using violence will only provoke a dog further, the Inuit for example rounded on him for that kick.

It is easy to criticize when you see these short snips but I have to say what Ive seen of him he is very hard on some of these dogs and sucks the spirit out of them.

I do smack my dogs when warranted but I cant remember the last time I had to, some dogs you cant smack without a reaction.

Years ago we had a black collie, all his siblings had been put down due to their nasty nature. When you had him on the lead and you checked him he would go for you so all I did after checkinghim was to walk in the opposite direction and he was fine but you had to be quick.

I think what Im trying to say is we are the ones with the brains and its possible to outsmart them by thinking out of the box.
 
Slightly on the fence here but perhaps you should also think of the audience he is normally playing too. I think all will agree that there are a lot of people who "just" get a dog without really thinking it through/costs/exercise so while you may think some of this is just blooming obvious (exercise the dog) you would be amazed at the amount of people who will say that a dog is bad/dangerous/uncontrollable when all they need is more work! like horses..obviously that is not always the case but it is a large proportion. The thing I do like about Caesar is a: he tends to have unpopular breeds (so pitbulls) and shows that they are more than capable of being "nice" dogs and b: he might keep ramming the same messages home but maybe he will have made some people think twice about how they handle their dogs.
 
No comment on Cesar for a change, but the clip showed staggering amounts of dogs owned by idiots (that should never have been allowed them in the first place) these dogs have never been reprimanded/disciplined or even trained to any standard in their lives by the looks of most of them (hence their reaction) to the foot correction (by no means would I call that a kick) except the one her hits front on with the front of his foot (again I would not be shouting shock/horror). Their behaviour left to spiral out of control (the owners need to be shot)
The inuit is putting up a fight (I was not alarmed and nor did I think his reaction was anything to:eek: about. The dog has never been reprimanded in it's life, hence it's reaction.
I don't belive it's a life time fix, because whilst he is capable of controlling the dogs, back in the numpty owners hands, the behaviour will raise its ugly head after a whole day:rolleyes:
I have no issues with using a firm hand "where it is needed" or any method of training where it is needed/most appropriate.
I have seen programme where have thought "that was not the best approach for that dog and those where I have thought "wow I never thought he would get anywhere with that one" and yes some of his terminology is mind boggling and waffle, but then we have VS and she is ok with the very basics and rubbish with the rest, esp teaching dogs not the pull:rolleyes:
It would have been easier to shoot the owners:rolleyes:
 
I have never seen the Cesar programme on TV but did go and see him live last year. In many ways he is an old fashioned dog man who doesn't stand for any messing about, and I think people nowadays aren't used to this which is why some are shocked. However as Cayla says there are times when dogs do need this sort of handling, and I don't have a problem with it. My only concern is if people watch the programmes and videos and try similar methods at home, not good. I do share your opinion of VS Cayla, wasn't at all impressed by her programmes .
 
Well said Cayla, this pretty much sums up my view as well. Not once in that video did I think his methods were cruel. These aren't clips of a man kicking dogs that have done nothing wrong, he is handling these dogs in the first place because they have serious issues that the owners have allowed to develop and are now out of control. I have never watched the mans tv programme I saw a clip of him once waffling on a load of bull and turned over. I am not alarmed by this clip though...but did guess that a lot of people would be, hence the post. My friends that posted and commented on it on fb had similar reactions to most on here too.
And as Cayla said, I'm not suprised that on catch up shows the dogs are no better, ultimately they have gone back to the morons that let that behaviour develop in the first place, you would pretty much expect them to revert back or get worse unless he had also managed to train the human...this unfortunately is probably much harder than training any problem out of any dog.
 
It worries me due to how people may try to copy his actions but get it disastrously wrong.

I went with a friend to view a litter of springer puppies on sunday night. A real run down terrace house. Lady opened the door and the 'dad' springer greeted us, then as we were going up the stairs the dog wet all over two steps - to which the woman grabbed him by the collar nd flung him up the stairs screaming and shouting at him. The dog didnt show any remorse etc so obviously a normal way he is treated as he was so used to it. Then whilst we were with the puppies she very proudly was telling my (young and not so experienced) friend about Ceasar Milan and how he was fantastic etc. Shortly after one of the puppies had a little accident on the floor (not the newspaper) and she picked it up and literally threw it onto the paper, the poor thing landed with a splat. Her final act was to tell us how she 'tail trains' the puppies to accept their tail being pulled, fair enough, but te demo of her dragging one around the floor by its tail was a bit unnerving.

As soon as we got back in my car i told her 'Do not watch Ceasar Milan!'

Needless to say I was not impressed with the methods but the puppies were okay so we are picking one up tomorrow (she is booked into vets on Thursday first thing as per my insistence to friend)
 
Thing is, this type of moron would get it disasterously wrong with or without watching some short waffley bloke on the tv....nation of a**holes! :p :D :rolleyes:
 
I have watched most of the DW programmes and i find he makes perfect sense, none of the "kicks" (for want of a better word) were agressive, and the timing was good and the dog seemed to understand.

I like the fact that he looks at the whole dog and its breed and enviroment and points the owners in the right direction regarding what exercise the dog should be doing (herding for herding dogs, sniff challenges for scent hounds etc) and that the most important thing a human can do for his dog is exercise it.

When an over excited\dominant dog is introduced to his pack and causes a ruck none of his dogs cower in fear when he asks them to calm down and submit.

As for the persons energy that is in charge of the dog being "bull****" and does not make a difference, ANY animal responds to energy far more than vocal commands.

Of course the dogs are stressed in some programmes, they have been tipped over the edge by numpty owners and are fiding a new head space to get into.

As for the programme that went back and looked at the ones who have gone "bad" again. I will bet my bottom dollar the humans are getting it wrong not the dogs.

Someone also mentioned the "prong" collar, he always states that he does not like them and that they make the animals behaviour worse and they become numb to them and 9 times out of 10 he takes them off, only in cases where he feels it absolutely necessary does he keep them on, and it is normally not for control.
 
Paint Me Proud said:
anyone who thinks Ceasar Milan talks sense I urge you to read the books by Jan Fennel ;)
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I agree, but the trouble is the people who rate him seem to be blind to his many faults. If you watch the dogs he handles body language it is obvious that what he calls calm submissve behaviour is no such thing. Any one who thinks hes any good should read Turid Rugaas book calming signals.
I find it very worrying that anyone who has anything to do with dogs can really think he knows what hes talking about.
How ever you wont change peoples mind about him and I wont say anymore for fear of being ripped to shreads!
 
Allover said:
I have watched most of the DW programmes and i find he makes perfect sense, none of the "kicks" (for want of a better word) were agressive, and the timing was good and the dog seemed to understand.

I like the fact that he looks at the whole dog and its breed and enviroment and points the owners in the right direction regarding what exercise the dog should be doing (herding for herding dogs, sniff challenges for scent hounds etc) and that the most important thing a human can do for his dog is exercise it.

When an over excited\dominant dog is introduced to his pack and causes a ruck none of his dogs cower in fear when he asks them to calm down and submit.

As for the persons energy that is in charge of the dog being "bull****" and does not make a difference, ANY animal responds to energy far more than vocal commands.

Of course the dogs are stressed in some programmes, they have been tipped over the edge by numpty owners and are fiding a new head space to get into.

As for the programme that went back and looked at the ones who have gone "bad" again. I will bet my bottom dollar the humans are getting it wrong not the dogs.

Someone also mentioned the "prong" collar, he always states that he does not like them and that they make the animals behaviour worse and they become numb to them and 9 times out of 10 he takes them off, only in cases where he feels it absolutely necessary does he keep them on, and it is normally not for control.
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Indeed,as Cesar always states..the owner is always the problem ..and he "trains people".
 
When you look at the dogs at the end of the shows they are not happy dogs. They are shut down, non functioning.

His methods of "alpha" crap have been proven to be wrong over and over and even the guy who wrote the original paper has said that its complete crud.
 
katielou said:
When you look at the dogs at the end of the shows they are not happy dogs. They are shut down, non functioning.

His methods of "alpha" crap have been proven to be wrong over and over and even the guy who wrote the original paper has said that its complete crud.
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I am racking my brains to think of any of the dogs at the end of any of the shows who are shut down and non functioning, could you maybe give an example?
 
Allover said:
I am racking my brains to think of any of the dogs at the end of any of the shows who are shut down and non functioning, could you maybe give an example?
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Yeah pretty much all of them. I haven't watched the show in a couple of years so can't pull any off the top of my head other than the one with the Asian gay guy who was on some Paris Hilton BFF show.

But i consider any dog that walks like the world has just defeated him and he is not really interested in humans any more shut down.
 
katielou said:
Yeah pretty much all of them. I haven't watched the show in a couple of years so can't pull any off the top of my head other than the one with the Asian gay guy who was on some Paris Hilton BFF show.

But i consider any dog that walks like the world has just defeated him and he is not really interested in humans any more shut down.
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I agree with you, just watch the avoidence of eye contact, lip smacking, panting etc etc. it speaks for its self. You wont get some people to see it though.
 
Supertrooper said:
Just going to put a hard helmet on to protect me from the abuse I am sure to receive :) here goes.......

I can not stand the guy or anything he stands for, so I can put a unbiased point of view across I have watched his tv show and read his books. I am also a veterinary nurse with 19yrs experience mostly working with a national dog welfare charity.
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If you hate him and everything he stands for, regardless of whether or not you've read his books/watched the tv show, you do not have an unbiased opinion.
 
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