Cheltenham

[Honeylight]

I have been trying to defend our sport on the Guardian comments board all week. Many of the posters are obviously very ignorant about horses in general, like saying they are "beaten to death" and "tortured with metal in their mouth and their tongues tied down". Many of these people are the vegan radical abolitionists, who post every time any companion animal is mentioned or animal protein in a recipe. They would never be convinced ever that horses actually enjoy racing, I can tell most do because I used to ride and have ponies and have watched NH racing all my life, and I know they have a good life.
There may have been a problem in that final race, I didn't see it as I don't subscribe to RUK and I was out all day any way. It could have been false ground or as more likely just fate. I thought there would be less serious injuries due to the heavy going this year. I remember in the 1980s/90s about five being killed on each day. I remember a number of trainers saying horses were distracted by a TV airship filming overhead shots. Being such a massive, and at the detriment of all the racing in the season, Cheltenham is where everyone wants to win and I think Jockeys have always taken more risks and gone faster, especially as horses have become faster and lighter.

 

[ester]

I really don't think it is a good idea to consider on course deaths as 'fate'!

 

[Honeylight]

Well what I was meaning was there was probably no obvious reason.

 

[ester]

Ah that is a bit different, fate can imply pre determination.

 

[Clodagh]

especially as horses have become faster and lighter.

I think this is very true - Desert Orchid looks like MW hunter nowadays.

 

[popsdosh]

Yes the orange came in during the 60s. Supposedly easier for both jockeys and horses to see, but then nobody had done any research really into the way humans and horses visualise colours.

It seems that horses are more aware of contrast (hence white rails against dark brown birch is more noticeable to them) but they also can see yellow and bright blue for some reason. Orange however blends in with the birch for them.

Given that in the mass of other runners, and travelling at speed, there is limited visibility anyway, a white sight rail may well prove to make a difference in the number of fallers, since even glimpses of it on an approach may help a horse to lift off in time and with sufficient height.

Maybe it was me but the racing I saw I thought there were less fallers than on average ?
We did some research at Huntingdon about 20 yrs ago when I was involved the only issue with white was when the sun was in their faces several crashed into the bottom of fences as they couldnt pick out the board due to glare and were getting in to close. It took ages to get a day when we would get most daylight conditions we needed and the horses brought over.
One of the issues at cheltenham and it always will be is that the general cruising speed is one to two gears higher as its very competitive and you cannot stop that so the all so rans end up tired and make mistakes. Much has been done for example the third last was always one that claimed a lot as things were just hotting up and it was downhill it was reworked to help them keep their feet on landing. Im sure the enquiry will just come to the conclusion that 3 in the last race was just bad luck as up until then things were a lot less than the average and races that traditionally claim a few had been incident free.
We all want to see racing without fatalities but if racing is made to do that there will be none it wont be racing anymore.Accidents happen in all horse sports just you dont see it ! Most times there is nothing you can change to stop it happening again you just have to accept nobody goes out to kill their horses racing but we also know it can be the ultimate price if things go wrong, they are unpredictable creatures at the end of the day. If you find that unacceptable you dont watch or take part in racing.

 

[Rowreach]

Maybe it was me but the racing I saw I thought there were less fallers than on average ?
We did some research at Huntingdon about 20 yrs ago when I was involved the only issue with white was when the sun was in their faces several crashed into the bottom of fences as they couldnt pick out the board due to glare and were getting in to close. It took ages to get a day when we would get most daylight conditions we needed and the horses brought over.
One of the issues at cheltenham and it always will be is that the general cruising speed is one to two gears higher as its very competitive and you cannot stop that so the all so rans end up tired and make mistakes. Much has been done for example the third last was always one that claimed a lot as things were just hotting up and it was downhill it was reworked to help them keep their feet on landing. Im sure the enquiry will just come to the conclusion that 3 in the last race was just bad luck as up until then things were a lot less than the average and races that traditionally claim a few had been incident free.
We all want to see racing without fatalities but if racing is made to do that there will be none it wont be racing anymore.Accidents happen in all horse sports just you dont see it ! Most times there is nothing you can change to stop it happening again you just have to accept nobody goes out to kill their horses racing but we also know it can be the ultimate price if things go wrong, they are unpredictable creatures at the end of the day. If you find that unacceptable you dont watch or take part in racing.

Oh I totally agree, but something as simple as changing the colour of a sight rail may save a few fallers. As I said above somewhere, maybe the use of orange AND white would make it easy for both jockeys and horses to judge a fence, and would help in cases of bright light, but IME horses are better at seeing fences than we are anyway. I've certainly had a few "where the heck is it" moments, either because there are other horses in the way or we've been going into the sun, but the horse takes off anyway. I've had other times where there's been a clear run to the fence and I've been on a good stride and we've gone straight into the top of it.

While there is racing, there will be fallers. Making the fences smaller won't stop that and may even increase numbers, but helping horses to clear fences can't be a bad thing.

 

[ester]

You do see accidents in all horse sports, even more so in the days of the internet, I don't understand that point at all?

 

[popsdosh]

While there is racing, there will be fallers. Making the fences smaller won't stop that and may even increase numbers, but helping horses to clear fences can't be a bad thing.

Yes Doncaster a few years back had fences that were soft and described by jockeys as up turned dandy brushes . Two things came out of that a general increase in racing speed which brought about more injury causing falls . Also trainers kept their horses away because they were generally jumping lower after going round Doncaster as they were complacent.

 

[popsdosh]

You do see accidents in all horse sports, even more so in the days of the internet, I don't understand that point at all?

They are not as public. They are not on ITV hd for everybody to see is the point .

 

[Clodagh]

You can see how jumpable the fences are when you look at Footpad's mistake, he only just went over the rail and knocked a huge hole in it, yet stood up to win.

 

[ester]

Ah well, it wasn't clear you meant the TV watching general public.

 

[Fellewell]

I think this is very true - Desert Orchid looks like MW hunter nowadays.

Speaking of Desert Orchid; didn't he crash out at the first at Kempton in 1983? Some didn't expect him to get up. He went on to a successful career and died in 2006. No one could say that was a life half-lived.

 

[minesadouble]

I think this is very true - Desert Orchid looks like MW hunter nowadays.

I remember seeing him next to Yahoo, one of his main rivals, and thinking he liked like a middleweight hunter even in those days.

 

[ozpoz]

Like Millisend, I'm also soft in my old age and I don't find myself glued to screen to watch anymore. I do believe that racehorses have a great life and have exemplary care on racecourses. I rode and worked with them as a teenager and admire them immensely ,as much as I admire the bravery of the jockeys and I feel that british racing has to continue to be seen to be continuing to do the very best they can.

The use of research to make fences as safe as they can be is the way forward. There may well be other input which will help.

 

[tristar]

just reading that 4 died in one day makes me feel physically sick, i cannot find a way to justify it, no amount of blah blah is going to change the way i feel, it is a gut feeling that i cannot change.

i just think of each horse, beautiful, whole, here one moment, fatally injured the next because of human exploitation

the state of the ground is a major factor, they will lose money if they cancel.

when my riding surface is a wet, my own horses lose balance and fail to deliver, a racing surface in 6 inches of mud is an unacceptable surface to expect the ultimate effort from.

this is not my emotional opinion.

 

[{97702}]

If I heard that greyhounds were dying at dog tracks, would I be horrified? Does the fact that we understand racing and know the fragility of the racehorse, any horse in fact, make it acceptable?
.

I would hope you know this already, but many, many greyhounds die at dog tracks every year. I hope everyone is horrified by that fact, and seeks to boycott greyhound racing in every way possible

 

[Clodagh]

I would hope you know this already, but many, many greyhounds die at dog tracks every year. I hope everyone is horrified by that fact, and seeks to boycott greyhound racing in every way possible

Trouble is - would it be better if all greyhounds ended up like the Crufts dog? As surely if they didn't race there would be no need to breed fit, athletic types. I work with a lady that trains and races greyhounds, and by her own standards she loves them and looks after them well. Yes some get injured, but I had 2 hunters that broke down and had them both PTS. (Ultimately, they had due treatment first)
If we stopped all horses being ridden and dogs being used for work then that would be the kindest thing, but would it do them any favours, long term?

 

[ester]

on a friends facebook post someone said if dogs were dying at crufts agility/flyball people would be appalled. I considered it not very relevant on the basis that injuries happen doing those things but it is a whole lot easier to fix up a dog than a horse.
However one of the comments made was that those things were tangibly good for the dog, whereas racing was just for humans. I was unconvinced that line could be drawn as physically those horses are in a lot better nick than a lot of the leisure horse population.

 

[{97702}]

on a friends facebook post someone said if dogs were dying at crufts agility/flyball people would be appalled. I considered it not very relevant on the basis that injuries happen doing those things but it is a whole lot easier to fix up a dog than a horse.
However one of the comments made was that those things were tangibly good for the dog, whereas racing was just for humans. I was unconvinced that line could be drawn as physically those horses are in a lot better nick than a lot of the leisure horse population.

It IS a lot easier to fix up a dog than a horse, but sadly not all greyhound trainers will bother to do that - I still have in my mind a video I saw of a greyhound that broke his hind leg racing and did the last lap on 3 legs, with the broken leg flapping...... he was shot.....

 

[{97702}]

Trouble is - would it be better if all greyhounds ended up like the Crufts dog? As surely if they didn't race there would be no need to breed fit, athletic types. I work with a lady that trains and races greyhounds, and by her own standards she loves them and looks after them well. Yes some get injured, but I had 2 hunters that broke down and had them both PTS. (Ultimately, they had due treatment first)
If we stopped all horses being ridden and dogs being used for work then that would be the kindest thing, but would it do them any favours, long term?

I am told that in ireland they breed something like 10,000 greyhounds a year for racing. If excessive breeding like that comes to an end I would not be sorry. There is absolutely no need for greyhounds to become like those horrendous show specimens - there are plenty of dogs which were working dogs but are no longer so that haven't become such distorted versions of their former selves.

 

[Clodagh]

I am told that in ireland they breed something like 10,000 greyhounds a year for racing. If excessive breeding like that comes to an end I would not be sorry. There is absolutely no need for greyhounds to become like those horrendous show specimens - there are plenty of dogs which were working dogs but are no longer so that haven't become such distorted versions of their former selves.

I am trying to think of some. (I am sure there are but off the top of my head I can't).
I agree that 10000 is a massive number. I wonderwhat percentage race? Ditto tbs I suppose.

 

[SpottyMare]

According to this (page 11) 4366 TB foals were born in the UK in 2012. It's quite an interesting read generally, although it's purely economics.

https://www.thetba.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Economic-Impact-Study.pdf