Chiffneys

[Tinypony]

Yes, you have experience of one horse, enough said.
Personally I would not let a person with limited experience deal with a difficult horse.

Don't be so daft, nothing I posted indicated that I only have experience of one horse, It's quite clear that in this case I am talking about one individual animal. You can't use that sort of conversation to make wild guesses about someone's life. I could have taken your posts to infer that, just because your horse didn't get damaged, the same would be true for all horses - but I didn't.

I'm not here to trade "Oh, I'm more experienced than you" posts with anon people on the internet. Anybody can claim anything on these discussion group.s I'm here to discuss and share my personal experiences, if you don't like that then there's not a lot I can do about it.

 

[annaellie]

I made a comment about questioning if some one had handled a truly difficult horse I prob worded it wrong, I ment that once you have done so and done it properly it means opening your mind to all different methods for that particular horse. Weather that be a chifney or control halters you can not have a closed mind with dangerous horses it's what works for that horse to have control and most importantly safety. As I said I only used a chifney on one horse and in my eyes a last resort

 

[TigerTail]

gobbledeegook?

huh?!

 

[TheresaW]

Given the choice of faffing about with a halter (be that dually, maxwell or whatever other one you choose, I'm not fussy which) that a horse takes no notice of, or a chifney, metal noseband or chain when a horse is being a dangerous arse personally I'd go for the chain/noseband or chifney any day.

I have horses that are lambs with a chain on, take the chain off and they are sods because they know they can be, horses are not stupid, the majority of the time I'll bet a chifney/chain/noseband never comes into use at all when it is used on a regular basis.

If a horse is being dangerous you don't have time to do the nicey nice "Oh do behave, there's a pretty boy" twaddle, you need some control there and then, once you have a semblance of control then you can go on and do groundwork, you can't do that if you are broken in a hospital bed or cold in the ground

Every scenario is different and it bugs the heck out of me when usage of a piece of equipment is condemned without knowing the situation. I don't rate Duallys at all, but that doesn't mean that they don't work for a lot of horses/handlers.

I think I love you! Someone who understands whats realistic. I am sick and tired of being dragged along, spending 10 minutes trying to catch him, having his back legs threaten me because he knows he's been naughty. I put the chifney in his mouth, and he walks beside me like a lamb with no fuss to either of us.

 

[Cortez]

I'm not personally fond of chifney bits, prefer a chain over the nose (or serraton if necessary), but wouldn't hesitate to use one if that was what was required. Horses weigh average half a ton, I don't, and I need to have control at all times otherwise someone (me, horse or bystanders) can get hurt. Training is of course the aim, equipment helps us to achieve it.

 

[Caledonia]

Sorry to point this out, but if you are using a dually correctly you would not be "hanging onto a dually with continual pressure until the horse stops, taking a few circles".

Because you quoted me, just for clarity - I was responding to what someone else had said they'd do. I would NOT use a circling method on a horse trying to run away. Within the thread this was another poster's response to a specific scenario of serious learned behaviour causing problems.

For me a chifney is a mostly a short term tool, or used where it simplifies a potentially dangerous situation.

FWIW, I know from experience I can be equally as effective with a horse in a headcollar as I can in a rope halter or dually, so to me they are an uneccessary bit of kit. But each to their own, as long as no abuse is involved.

 

[Enfys]

While i agree with some of what you say, id take my rope halter over a chifney any day and it is as effective as a chifney if used properly.
I think it boils down to what you prefer and what is effective for you.

I am making the point that if you are not always in the position to immediately do ground work with a halter, or to spend the time, there are a hundred different reasons why immediate control may be required for the safety of horse/handler and bystanders.

I don't actually even possess a chifney now. I use a chain when, and if I have to, attached to a good old fashioned leather headstall.

I am not disputing the fact that halters are as effective when a horse is listening and respectful, or at least knows what is expected of it at all - but I don't suppose a Vet with a pain maddened horse waving legs with intent is going to appreciate me faffing about with a halter and doing the nicey nice thing if a bit/chain/twitch makes the situation safer. In fact I'll tell you what he'd say "Oh for ***** sake woman, stop a***** around and just keep the bloody thing still will you!!!"

 

[Ibblebibble]

Given the choice of faffing about with a halter (be that dually, maxwell or whatever other one you choose, I'm not fussy which) that a horse takes no notice of, or a chifney, metal noseband or chain when a horse is being a dangerous arse personally I'd go for the chain/noseband or chifney any day.

I have horses that are lambs with a chain on, take the chain off and they are sods because they know they can be, horses are not stupid, the majority of the time I'll bet a chifney/chain/noseband never comes into use at all when it is used on a regular basis.

If a horse is being dangerous you don't have time to do the nicey nice "Oh do behave, there's a pretty boy" twaddle, you need some control there and then, once you have a semblance of control then you can go on and do groundwork, you can't do that if you are broken in a hospital bed or cold in the ground

Every scenario is different and it bugs the heck out of me when usage of a piece of equipment is condemned without knowing the situation. I don't rate Duallys at all, but that doesn't mean that they don't work for a lot of horses/handlers.

agree totally,

A closed mind is far more dangerous than any piece of equipment!!

 

[Caledonia]

I am making the point that if you are not always in the position to immediately do ground work with a halter, or to spend the time, there are a hundred different reasons why immediate control may be required for the safety of horse/handler and bystanders.

^^^^ Exactly!

 

[meandmyself]

I think chiffneys are disgusting. I have seen a horse being "handled" with one, horse still went up (yes, even with a chiffney in! shock horror...), pulled handler off feet, handler had rope pulled out of hands, horse ran off and the results were not pretty...

I think the blame there lays with the person using the chifney, not the bit itself. Any piece of tack can be misused.

I too have had a horse who would rear / capriole / launch off all 4 feet sharply sideways and pull me clean off my feet. Had numerous people telling me i should put my horse in a chiffney to lead. There was no way I would contemplate this, or a bridle (results the same if horse gets loose, as he would). Someone leant me a knotted, string type halter, this is the only thing that has worked. Have also had to re-establish our groundwork, but this is the only thing my horse respected and, if he had got away from me, wouldn't have ripped his jaw to shreds and scarred him for life from the memory. Thankfully I have control with the halter.

What would you do if the halter didn't work?

Its just a pet hate of mine that some people immmediately ramp it up if horse not behaving. Rather than take it back to handling issues and work on these. Like people who wear spurs on a "lazy" horse ... wtf!!! so when horse goes dead to the spurs as well as your whip and flapping legs, what are you gonna use next??!! cattle prods stuck to your heels?

I'd rather use a stronger piece of tack gently than a gentle one harshly.

 

[Marydoll]

I am making the point that if you are not always in the position to immediately do ground work with a halter, or to spend the time, there are a hundred different reasons why immediate control may be required for the safety of horse/handler and bystanders.

I don't actually even possess a chifney now. I use a chain when, and if I have to, attached to a good old fashioned leather headstall.

I am not disputing the fact that halters are as effective when a horse is listening and respectful, or at least knows what is expected of it at all - but I don't suppose a Vet with a pain maddened horse waving legs with intent is going to appreciate me faffing about with a halter and doing the nicey nice thing if a bit/chain/twitch makes the situation safer. In fact I'll tell you what he'd say "Oh for ***** sake woman, stop a***** around and just keep the bloody thing still will you!!!"

As said, to each his own, never needed to use a chifney,will use a twitch for vet if i need to and have done with good results but its chifneys we're talking about.
Never had a vet need to talk to me in that manner either, oh and before you ask ive worked with some real nutjobs and bolshy beggars, who all learned manners with the rope halter and long rope.

 

[Enfys]

As said, to each his own, never needed to use a chifney,will use a twitch for vet if i need to and have done with good results but its chifneys we're talking about.
Never had a vet need to talk to me in that manner either, oh and before you ask ive worked with some real nutjobs and bolshy beggars, who all learned manners with the rope halter and long rope.

I am quite sure that you are vastly experienced, I don't believe that at any time I have suggested otherwise As you said, we're talking chifneys here, not one up(horse)manship.

Oh, my Vet is one of the best Vets in the Province and extremely highly regarded in his field. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have him living 7 minutes up the road "from his bed to my barn at 3am" as he puts it, he has an excellent sense of humour and we have a great working relationship. If he wants me to use a restraint then I do, when he says jump, I ask how high.

Horses for courses, as in all things, it is all about the individual horse and the situation at any given moment in time.

 

[GCC]

I hate these posts, you often can't do right for doing wrong! I had to put a chiffney on my 138cm mare when i was younger because otherwise she would rear and box at me on the way to the field, but i was told how to use it correctly and thankfully rarely had to use it.

Me too. I would only ever use one as a last resort but my current horse had been badly handled prior to getting him with incorrect use of a pressure headcollar. He will think nothing of planting, rearing and boxing his way out of a situation he doesn't fancy at that point in time (eg coming in from the field to be fed) and in the worst case scenario has been known to throw himself onto concrete to avoid pressure.

... After 2 years of groundwork he is much more consistent but on 'those days' I need to be able to nip the behaviour in the bud otherwise he - or I - will end up hospitalised. One quick restriction on the chifney and he is fine and we go back to the headcollar. If I try pressure on his poll or nose (he has had a broken nose in the past) he goes loopy.

No choice - it's a safety thing. And trust me, I'm experienced and have tried all the alternatives.

If it works then do it! I'm a very don't fix what isn't broken and if it works don't bother with the poll/nose pressure. I was really discriminated at the time because i was on a general livery yard and i got a lot of stick with me being so young and using a chiffney but, i don't see why my safety as a child shouldn't have come first!! then i moved my 138cm onto my old trainers yard and never had a word said about it! I know she was only 138cm but when that height rears in your face and i['m only 5ft1 now it's pretty daunting!

 

[acw295]

I use one, now and again, to load my Welsh D on the way out (not needed to come home).

She travels very well, always loads perfectly to come home but sometimes won't load to go away from home without having a diva fit first complete with rearing and spinning off the ramp and galloping back to her mates. She's not worried about the transport (so none of the loading techniques work) - she gets a type of separation anxiety and always wants to go back to her herd.

I've tried pressure halters etc but she ignore them totally - pop the chifney on and she walks on quietly - I've never needed to actually use it and still lead from the headcollar.

I do think some people use them irresponsibly - I knew someone who used to bring a horse in with one and them leave him tied up, unattended in it. That made me very cross indeed

But I think, like anything, they have a place.

I've seen more injuries caused by rope halters than chifneys!