Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
it is bad man
It is bad horse ownership It has nothing to do with how often people ride, horses should not be stabled for months on end providing them with some sort of turnout is a basic need and if you can't
Clipping for weight loss has anyone done it?
- Thread starter wattamus
- Start date
it is bad man
It is bad horse ownership It has nothing to do with how often people ride, horses should not be stabled for months on end providing them with some sort of turnout is a basic need and if you can't
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
I know this isn't what the OP wants to hear, but what about euthanizing the one horse that can't be ridden and using the time spent with that horse hand walking the other 2?
In the past, during super wet winters, the horse that I leased didn't get much as much turn out as she needed as I was a working boarder and the yard owner had too many horses on too little land. The ponies lived in a mud pit with straight stalls for a few of them. The people paying full board, their horses got out into the better fields for several hours a day. And that is largely why I quit keeping horses. If I can afford to pay full board with good turn out.
In the past, during super wet winters, the horse that I leased didn't get much as much turn out as she needed as I was a working boarder and the yard owner had too many horses on too little land. The ponies lived in a mud pit with straight stalls for a few of them. The people paying full board, their horses got out into the better fields for several hours a day. And that is largely why I quit keeping horses. If I can afford to pay full board with good turn out.
Xanthoria
Well-Known Member
OP please read what the RSPCA defines as basic welfare needs for horses:
https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/horses/environment
also take a look at this:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...orses-welfare-codes-of-practice-april2018.pdf
It states:
“Exercise
3.1. In the wild, horses would travel long distances whilst searching for resources. Horses require adequate exercise, or freedom to exercise and this will require time and effort from the horse owner or keeper. All stabled horses, apart from those on box rest for veterinary reasons, will benefit from daily turnout in the field to allow them to graze and socialise with other horses.”
People aren’t making this up. Horses need to move for the good of their physical and mental wellbeing. If you don’t have time to provide that for your horses you’re not providing a minimum standard of care. Sell some or all of them, unless you can afford to get help.
And how do you know if they are happy? They could spend all day weaving, stall walking, cribbing or suffering from ulcers but you’re there so little I question how you’d observe them, aside from times you’re throwing hay and they’re distracted by that.
https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/horses/environment
also take a look at this:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...orses-welfare-codes-of-practice-april2018.pdf
It states:
“Exercise
3.1. In the wild, horses would travel long distances whilst searching for resources. Horses require adequate exercise, or freedom to exercise and this will require time and effort from the horse owner or keeper. All stabled horses, apart from those on box rest for veterinary reasons, will benefit from daily turnout in the field to allow them to graze and socialise with other horses.”
People aren’t making this up. Horses need to move for the good of their physical and mental wellbeing. If you don’t have time to provide that for your horses you’re not providing a minimum standard of care. Sell some or all of them, unless you can afford to get help.
And how do you know if they are happy? They could spend all day weaving, stall walking, cribbing or suffering from ulcers but you’re there so little I question how you’d observe them, aside from times you’re throwing hay and they’re distracted by that.
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
I went to a lecture on horse behaviour last week and it was eye opening on how we as humans often don’t provide what our horses need. Even as someone whose horses have daily turnout in winter and 24hrs in summer I saw that maybe there was more I could do to improve their lives.
I could not in all good conscience ever plan to keep a horse in the manner you describe, I would not be able to sleep at night thinking of them imprisoned in their stables. I simply wouid not have a horse in those circumstances.
I know there are some short term issues due to illness or unprecedented weather but we generally need to rethink whether we should keep horses at all if we can’t meet their basic needs most of the time.
I could not in all good conscience ever plan to keep a horse in the manner you describe, I would not be able to sleep at night thinking of them imprisoned in their stables. I simply wouid not have a horse in those circumstances.
I know there are some short term issues due to illness or unprecedented weather but we generally need to rethink whether we should keep horses at all if we can’t meet their basic needs most of the time.
Winters100
Well-Known Member
I agree. Harsh on the horse having its life cut short because it has the misfortune to be owned by someone who put her own enjoyment above the welfare of her horses and bought another despite not being able to care for the 2 she had. Still better than this miserable existence though. I really do not know how this owner thought she had time to take care of 3 in a place without winter turnout. She is there only 2 hours a day. It takes me minimum 4 hours to keep my 2 properly exercised and that is in a stable where they are mucked out for me, taken to paddock and carousel, given hay etc.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
Apologies if I’m repeating as I don’t haven’t looked through all replies, but no, absolutely not acceptable to clip a horse Just to help the owner. Apart from the other welfare concerns, a horse standing in a stable can’t move around to keep warm as it could if it were out in a field. If you are restricting food too, that’s not a life,‘it’s existing. My horse lost 100kgs while on box rest for a month. He’s a traditional cob so prone to holding his weight. He wasn’t ever hungry and wasn’t kept cold either. He had two feeds a day of the lowest calorie I could find (Fast Fibre and plain straw chaff I think), hay in a teeny holed haynet and ad-lib straw in another net. The constant eating kept him happy and it was only for a month. He was weighed at the vets before and after so I know the 100kgs he lost was accurate.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
OP I really feel for you. With a huge health scare, presumably with some loss of earnings and an ongoing financial strain - combined with living in an area where the land doesn’t support turnout and holding down a full time job I can only imagine how exhausting and stressful it must all be at the moment.
I don’t like the tone of some of these posts although I do agree with the general sentiment.
As for the original topic, I actually have no issue in clipping and no/under rugging as part of a weight loss plan in theory. An obese horse is more serious than a slightly cold one. I wouldn’t want the horse shivering but would want them cool. I’d be inclined to use a stable sheet rather than a thick fleece just to keep the chill off.
Now the comment above is ‘as part of a weight loss plan’. That involves exercise.
I think you need to have a long, hard, open-minded think about your future plans and what you can manage with your time, location and finances. It’s unfair on your horses to continue as you are.
Personally, as an interim measure, I’d be sending the horses onto full grass livery (or a track for the fatty, but that might be out of budget) out of the area. Can’t be any more expensive than keeping 3 stabled 24/7 and whilst you won’t get to see them every day it would be far better for their overall mental & physical health.
I don’t like the tone of some of these posts although I do agree with the general sentiment.
As for the original topic, I actually have no issue in clipping and no/under rugging as part of a weight loss plan in theory. An obese horse is more serious than a slightly cold one. I wouldn’t want the horse shivering but would want them cool. I’d be inclined to use a stable sheet rather than a thick fleece just to keep the chill off.
Now the comment above is ‘as part of a weight loss plan’. That involves exercise.
I think you need to have a long, hard, open-minded think about your future plans and what you can manage with your time, location and finances. It’s unfair on your horses to continue as you are.
Personally, as an interim measure, I’d be sending the horses onto full grass livery (or a track for the fatty, but that might be out of budget) out of the area. Can’t be any more expensive than keeping 3 stabled 24/7 and whilst you won’t get to see them every day it would be far better for their overall mental & physical health.
scats
Well-Known Member
OP- I spent many years on a yard with rubbish winter turnout. There was one field that was used alternate days mares and geldings, but it was an absolute mud bath and nothing wanted to be out in it. If that was all that was available, I would have moved, but they did have 5 decent sized rubber turnout paddocks so the horses could go out for a couple of hours for a leg stretch, run and play. I used to pay for someone to put mine out for 2 hours in the morning and then bring in again to a haynet, then in the evening they’d have another 1-2 hours and then be ridden. It meant I stayed til 9pm most nights and it was hard work with 2-3 horses, but it was the best of a bad situation.
Is there no yards locally that have some kind of turnout in a manège, even if it doesn’t have proper winter turnout? If you could maybe get your horses out for an hours mooch about a manège in the morning while you muck out and then ridden in the evening (or a decent walk) this might not be too difficult to manage over the winter months. Not ideal, I know, but better than your current situation, which sounds very hard indeed and not ideal for your horses.
Is there no yards locally that have some kind of turnout in a manège, even if it doesn’t have proper winter turnout? If you could maybe get your horses out for an hours mooch about a manège in the morning while you muck out and then ridden in the evening (or a decent walk) this might not be too difficult to manage over the winter months. Not ideal, I know, but better than your current situation, which sounds very hard indeed and not ideal for your horses.
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
Did you read what shes written? This is not a short term problem.They have no winter turnout, its not a one off due to extreme weather. Depsite this, and despite the fact she has no usable school she brought a third horse into the equation. Any suggestions to improve the horses quality of life is met with "cant afford it" "wont do it"
That is not someone doing what they can in unusual circumstances
GinaGeo
Well-Known Member
Ultimately horses housed individually in stables do show clinical signs of stress especially long term - the research has been done that evidences this.
This year the weather has been abysmal, and turnout is very difficult for many people. You are in a similar position to many people, and perhaps need to be a little creative to manage best you can until Spring. When hopefully you can look at alternatives before next year.
Ultimately time is tight so you need to think about how can you make your time go further and work better for you?
Can you partner ride and lead in the school? Can he lead two at a time when walking out in hand - which could double the time you have to exercise them?
Could you talk to your yard manager about the possibility of turning out in the arena whilst you are doing your chores? At least they could have some time interacting and possibly an additional hour a day outside.
If not the arena is there an area of hard standing or yard that you could fence off and use for free social time?
Could you lunge or long line the one that can be worked - which would add variety and further exercise?
Regarding clipping to keep weight off. Yes I have done it, a full clip but still rugged in a 100g rug and he is not stabled so can move to keep warm, he is a warm horse anyway. I wouldn't clip and then stable.
You are understandably in a difficult situation and I hope you are recovering from your illness, but you probably do need to think about this in Spring. It is not a long term solution and won't be good for your horses, especially those with Cushings, which stress and lack of movement will not be doing any favours.
This year the weather has been abysmal, and turnout is very difficult for many people. You are in a similar position to many people, and perhaps need to be a little creative to manage best you can until Spring. When hopefully you can look at alternatives before next year.
Ultimately time is tight so you need to think about how can you make your time go further and work better for you?
Can you partner ride and lead in the school? Can he lead two at a time when walking out in hand - which could double the time you have to exercise them?
Could you talk to your yard manager about the possibility of turning out in the arena whilst you are doing your chores? At least they could have some time interacting and possibly an additional hour a day outside.
If not the arena is there an area of hard standing or yard that you could fence off and use for free social time?
Could you lunge or long line the one that can be worked - which would add variety and further exercise?
Regarding clipping to keep weight off. Yes I have done it, a full clip but still rugged in a 100g rug and he is not stabled so can move to keep warm, he is a warm horse anyway. I wouldn't clip and then stable.
You are understandably in a difficult situation and I hope you are recovering from your illness, but you probably do need to think about this in Spring. It is not a long term solution and won't be good for your horses, especially those with Cushings, which stress and lack of movement will not be doing any favours.
webble
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with having an old horse with Cushing's test you aren't able to provide a suitable environment for (which you aren't) PTS at all, if anything it's a kindness
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Man, you all really should go to Germany where a vast majority of horses are kept in boxes 24/7 from Oct/Nov until Apr/May. It is regular practice and drives me absolute bonkers. Many do not see it as a problem. I don't know if they are used to it or what.
My horse has a small paddock in the winter that I feel terrible about, but it is better than a stall in a stable only. He goes into the exercise walker for 30 or 40 minutes in the morning, and is ridden, lunged, long lined, or hacked by me every day. Even then I still hate it and think it is not enough. He doesn't seem to mind and spends his time between his morning walk and late afternoon exercise sleeping, eating, or socializing over the fence, but I do wish he had more open space.
If I did not have the time to ride/exercise him daily I'd put him in an open stable (a pasture with shelter). Usually an open stable has no to little amenities, but the horse can still live a more natural life. Are there any of these around? Or a pasture/field/paddock you can rent? Maybe that'd be a better option if you don't have time to work the horses.
I have a good doer and would not clip him for weight loss. Then he is cold and his muscles are tight. Not what I want. I clip and rug accordingly. He gets a small ration of feed and a slow feed haynet. This works.
My horse has a small paddock in the winter that I feel terrible about, but it is better than a stall in a stable only. He goes into the exercise walker for 30 or 40 minutes in the morning, and is ridden, lunged, long lined, or hacked by me every day. Even then I still hate it and think it is not enough. He doesn't seem to mind and spends his time between his morning walk and late afternoon exercise sleeping, eating, or socializing over the fence, but I do wish he had more open space.
If I did not have the time to ride/exercise him daily I'd put him in an open stable (a pasture with shelter). Usually an open stable has no to little amenities, but the horse can still live a more natural life. Are there any of these around? Or a pasture/field/paddock you can rent? Maybe that'd be a better option if you don't have time to work the horses.
I have a good doer and would not clip him for weight loss. Then he is cold and his muscles are tight. Not what I want. I clip and rug accordingly. He gets a small ration of feed and a slow feed haynet. This works.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
But those competition horses in Germany are ridden everyday - a friend went over for work on a competition yard and they were apparently very strict on making sure they get exercised daily and then on the walker in the afternoon. I don't think its right but they're use to it I guess. Same as South Africa, 0 turnout all year but are on the walker and ridden everyday. Apparently a lot of them had never had turnout before - so were use to it.
Mine is currently on box rest for a torn SDFT and at first was in hand grazed until he was given the all clear to be ridden everyday, started at 5 minutes about 6 weeks ago and gradually now up to 1 1/2 hours. I work full time, its super difficult but make sure I fit it in for his sanity. The BR did make his stifles weak though, it is so bad for them to be stood doing nothing.
Haven't red all the replies so might of already been mentioned.
If moving yards isn't a option, I think it might help OP if you look at getting a experienced freelance rider to ride during the week, the weight will fall off much quicker and her behavior will probably improve. Imagine how bored she is stood in that box 24/7 all day, everyday. I know the pain, having previously been on a yard with no winter turnout it was difficult. I made sure I rode everyday. It kept him sane, but it wasn't fair on him as he missed 'being a horse'. If I was unable to ride daily I'd of moved him to somewhere with turnout though.
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
My problem with the OP is more her attitude. I understand that yards often don't cater to what we'd like - right now I'd love an arena (even a flooded one) to work my horses in, but the only way I can have decent quality year round 24/7 turnout means I don't get that. Such is life.
However, the OP seems to be happy with the situation her yard offers and is certain her horses are fine with it. Personally, I doubt that, but the bigger issue is that if owners - the people who are supposed to have their horses' best interests at heart - lie down and accept the status quo, and continue to pay for unacceptable yard facilities, there is absolutely no incentive for yard owners to improve their provisions.
There is absolutely no reason why yards can't move towards all weather turnout pens in areas where grass turnout isn't practical (although... mine are on clay and always have been and I have never stabled 24/7 over winter) but that will only happen if liveries are willing to pay accordingly, and prioritise those sorts of horse-centric facilities over their own preferences. And, of course, if DIYers are willing to take appropriate care of those facilities where they are installed.
If owners like the OP believe their horses are fine and their management is tip top as it is, there really is very little hope for improvement long term.
However, the OP seems to be happy with the situation her yard offers and is certain her horses are fine with it. Personally, I doubt that, but the bigger issue is that if owners - the people who are supposed to have their horses' best interests at heart - lie down and accept the status quo, and continue to pay for unacceptable yard facilities, there is absolutely no incentive for yard owners to improve their provisions.
There is absolutely no reason why yards can't move towards all weather turnout pens in areas where grass turnout isn't practical (although... mine are on clay and always have been and I have never stabled 24/7 over winter) but that will only happen if liveries are willing to pay accordingly, and prioritise those sorts of horse-centric facilities over their own preferences. And, of course, if DIYers are willing to take appropriate care of those facilities where they are installed.
If owners like the OP believe their horses are fine and their management is tip top as it is, there really is very little hope for improvement long term.
alexomahony
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry about your situation and I'm also sorry people are being very blunt with their replies.
The way your horses are being kept is far from ideal, and mine would have been in a similar boat but I did decide to move them to live out 24/7. However, I am nothere to tell you to move them as you've already explained that this is not an option.
My suggestions to make the situation slightly better are:
- Do the horses with your husband in the morning. Get up earlier so one of you can walk whilst the other does jobs. This will allow the walking time to be longer
- Walk the two with cushings together, or all three if quiet enough. This could potentially allow you to walk them all for 30 minutes together, rather than 10 minutes each - longer if someone else is doing the jobs- - Let horses loose in the school whilst mucking out or create a 'section' in the barn/yard where they can wander. This can easily be done with leadropes and I used to do it for my welshie when he was in (due to being a houdini in the field!) - your horses are not only missing out on turnout, but also interaction
- Tie multiple small nets up around the stable so they have to move to get them
The lack of movement and circulation for me would build bigger concerns of them doing a tendon than a bit of wet surface - I'm sure you'll know, but you'll need to be very careful bringing them back into work from what is the equivalent of us being on bed rest.
I wish you the best and hope you've been able to pluck out the more positive and useful comments.
The way your horses are being kept is far from ideal, and mine would have been in a similar boat but I did decide to move them to live out 24/7. However, I am nothere to tell you to move them as you've already explained that this is not an option.
My suggestions to make the situation slightly better are:
- Do the horses with your husband in the morning. Get up earlier so one of you can walk whilst the other does jobs. This will allow the walking time to be longer
- Walk the two with cushings together, or all three if quiet enough. This could potentially allow you to walk them all for 30 minutes together, rather than 10 minutes each - longer if someone else is doing the jobs- - Let horses loose in the school whilst mucking out or create a 'section' in the barn/yard where they can wander. This can easily be done with leadropes and I used to do it for my welshie when he was in (due to being a houdini in the field!) - your horses are not only missing out on turnout, but also interaction
- Tie multiple small nets up around the stable so they have to move to get them
The lack of movement and circulation for me would build bigger concerns of them doing a tendon than a bit of wet surface - I'm sure you'll know, but you'll need to be very careful bringing them back into work from what is the equivalent of us being on bed rest.
I wish you the best and hope you've been able to pluck out the more positive and useful comments.
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
OP - It sounds like a pretty sh*tty situation with your health scare and the financial/time/etc commitments of an extra pony to care for.
I know a lot of people think it is acceptable to keep ponies/horses in the manner you are over winter. And I saw a lot of studs keeping stallions confined the majority of the time. I think there is a working compromise when you have a lack of facilities.
Can I ask (please do not take this as a criticism), do you have to restrict grazing of your cushings ponies in the summer?
If you do, perhaps the set up you are currently at is not working for you and your horses?
Maybe to take the pressure off you could maybe look into track livery? This sort of set up is ideal for cushings/laminitic ponies and fatties too.
I have to say track livery is not my thing and my ponies aren't kept that way. But I don't think putting 3 on track livery would be much different cost wise (maybe cheaper) that 3 on DIY livery with all the hay and bedding you would be going through. Your fatty would naturally loose weight and the pressure would be taken off you to visit and 'do' the horses every day as you could visit when you felt up to it. You could recuperate and rest save in the knowledge your horses are being cared for.
Its just a thought and if you did decide to do it, it wouldn't have to be forever. You could look further afield as you wouldn't have to visit twice a day. Unless you wanted too.
I know a lot of people think it is acceptable to keep ponies/horses in the manner you are over winter. And I saw a lot of studs keeping stallions confined the majority of the time. I think there is a working compromise when you have a lack of facilities.
Can I ask (please do not take this as a criticism), do you have to restrict grazing of your cushings ponies in the summer?
If you do, perhaps the set up you are currently at is not working for you and your horses?
Maybe to take the pressure off you could maybe look into track livery? This sort of set up is ideal for cushings/laminitic ponies and fatties too.
I have to say track livery is not my thing and my ponies aren't kept that way. But I don't think putting 3 on track livery would be much different cost wise (maybe cheaper) that 3 on DIY livery with all the hay and bedding you would be going through. Your fatty would naturally loose weight and the pressure would be taken off you to visit and 'do' the horses every day as you could visit when you felt up to it. You could recuperate and rest save in the knowledge your horses are being cared for.
Its just a thought and if you did decide to do it, it wouldn't have to be forever. You could look further afield as you wouldn't have to visit twice a day. Unless you wanted too.
sakura
Well-Known Member
I don't think that the replies simply criticising the situation the horses are in are "negative". It's also quite clear from the OP that this isn't a one-off problem due to nationally s*te weather. We all have to make sacrifices to keep our horses in the most natural, beneficial way possible for each individual, but I have yet to see the OP actually being willing to listen to any of them. Each suggestion has been shot down as "not possible". You obviously don't have to share your exact location, but maybe give an approx idea so that people can help you to look into alternative yards/fields for your horses? Horses need mental and physical simulation in order to thrive, very rarely any animal is okay without this. Horses will almost always be better out 24/7 with no ridden/in hand work than stabled 24/7 with minimal ridden/in hand work.
The sad reality is that if moving to another yard really isn't possible, and neither are any sort of lifestyle changes, hard decisions might have to be made. I'm not being negative, just realistic.
The sad reality is that if moving to another yard really isn't possible, and neither are any sort of lifestyle changes, hard decisions might have to be made. I'm not being negative, just realistic.
Annagain
Well-Known Member
This expresses exactly what I wanted to say but much better than I could. Thank you IHW!
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
but Horses are meant to live out it's the most natural way, not shut in a stable all winter
Leandy
Well-Known Member
Clipping for weight loss - no I absolutely wouldn't do this. Hunter clipping a horse and leaving it unrugged/insufficiently rugged is not acceptable in my opinion. Never heard of "wear fewer clothes" as a weight loss plan for people, I wonder why??! The solution is that you need to feed less and/or exercise more. It is very easy to control the diet of a stabled horse so not really sure what the difficulty is here. It is however also not acceptable on a long term basis to keep horses stabled and insufficiently exercised/turned out. You need a better solution unless this will resolve itself soon. If you can't move them then the answer is to pay for someone to exercise for you. If you cannot afford that then I'm afraid you cannot afford to keep the number of horses you have and you should address that problem.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
It's pretty well known, in fact. That and take a blanket off the bed and turn the heating down a notch. I've followed the fewer clothes model for decades. Exposing yourself to cold uses calories to keep warm. But even better, it increases brown fat, and brown fat uses up calories instead of storing them.
.....
On the general points being made, the intention in using under rugging to control horse weight is not to make them cold. It is to make their bodies work harder to be warm. There is a crucial difference.
And horses don't feel the cold the way we do, they have a huge internal furness of fermenting food. I would rather under rug a horse than restrict its food.
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Nasicus
Well-Known Member
Sounds like OP would be better off time, money and welfare wise if she moved the horses to grass livery/rented a field. I'm not sure where they live, but surely there has to be some sort of grass/grazing/retirement/field for rent if they looked hard enough.
They'd save a fortune in bedding costs alone.
They'd save a fortune in bedding costs alone.
Chianti
Well-Known Member
If OP is still reading replies I think she needs to look at the 5 Freedoms from the Animal Welfare Act
https://www.msd-animal-health-hub.co.uk/Healthy-Horses/Health/FiveFreedoms
I think that makes it clear that stabling 24/7 on a permanent basis isn't acceptable.
As horse owners we can all find ourselves in difficult situations but these are usually of a temporary nature. Years ago we had a similar Autumn weather wise and the yard I was on stopped turn out. This made life very difficult but at least I could still hack out at the weekends and use the school or walk in hand round the yard during the week morning and afternoons. If it had become a permanent situation I would have had to move yards.
I always understood that horses had to have at least an hour a day out of a stable and I would say that's not nearly enough. I appreciate that OP has had a very difficult period but keeping three horses in those conditions is not right. I always compare it to someone locking me in a toilet all day.
I would echo the suggestions others have made. I know the horse needs to lose weight but with good doers that's very hard without exercise. I have a champion good doer that lives out on a fairly bare paddock. He has a hunter clip and I'm trying not to over rug- he's a very hot pony and this year most of the time has been fine in 50gm rugs. He does some work every day - unless it's tipping down- even if it's just a walk out in hand.
I'd be trying to enhance the horse's environment until something can be done to change how they are kept- very well soaked meadow hay nets spread over several nets around the box, a net of clean straw - at the right percentage of forage, tubs of plain oat straw chaff, a treat ball with a few grass nuts in. I would hope that there's someone on the yard who can put hay in during the day and she's not standing for hours with nothing to eat.
https://www.msd-animal-health-hub.co.uk/Healthy-Horses/Health/FiveFreedoms
I think that makes it clear that stabling 24/7 on a permanent basis isn't acceptable.
As horse owners we can all find ourselves in difficult situations but these are usually of a temporary nature. Years ago we had a similar Autumn weather wise and the yard I was on stopped turn out. This made life very difficult but at least I could still hack out at the weekends and use the school or walk in hand round the yard during the week morning and afternoons. If it had become a permanent situation I would have had to move yards.
I always understood that horses had to have at least an hour a day out of a stable and I would say that's not nearly enough. I appreciate that OP has had a very difficult period but keeping three horses in those conditions is not right. I always compare it to someone locking me in a toilet all day.
I would echo the suggestions others have made. I know the horse needs to lose weight but with good doers that's very hard without exercise. I have a champion good doer that lives out on a fairly bare paddock. He has a hunter clip and I'm trying not to over rug- he's a very hot pony and this year most of the time has been fine in 50gm rugs. He does some work every day - unless it's tipping down- even if it's just a walk out in hand.
I'd be trying to enhance the horse's environment until something can be done to change how they are kept- very well soaked meadow hay nets spread over several nets around the box, a net of clean straw - at the right percentage of forage, tubs of plain oat straw chaff, a treat ball with a few grass nuts in. I would hope that there's someone on the yard who can put hay in during the day and she's not standing for hours with nothing to eat.
Firefly9410
Well-Known Member
I have not read the whole thread. I want to say regarding this post. What you are effectively saying is that you cannot afford to keep three horses. This is what your words mean, however much you do not want to hear it. Saying that what you are doing now 24/7 stabling without daily exercise is cruelty it is not just a management choice. You cannot meet the horses basic needs and as a result it is obese. I appreciate you think you are doing your best but that does not make this situation ok. Your best is not good enough. You can sell one of the horses or PTS one to increase funds to take proper care of the remaining two. Or the easiest option for you to improve things is to provide daily exercise. Walking in a flooded arena will not cause tendon damage. I have ridden in flooded or deep arenas plenty at all paces and on over weight horses and no tendon damage occurred. Yes there is increased risk but so is obesity and stabling without exercise risky to health. As a precaution stick to walk until the weight is a little lower.
Firefly9410
Well-Known Member
If I knew what yard you were on I would have contacted welfare already. And yes they would be interested. A 15hh Welsh cob weighing in at over 600kg is grossly obese. My 15hh heavyweight gypsy cob built like a tank would be obese at that weight! Also just because others neglect their horses too, keeping stabled for months without exercise, does not make it ok that you do it.
She is getting grief because she has posted a situation which means her horse is neglected and also posted saying she is ok with that.
It is not the question getting her a hard time. It is the neglected state of the horse and her cruelty in refusing to do anything about it.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
It’s unacceptable care that’s making your horses fat .
and no I would not leave a horse shivering that has no option to move and burn energy to produce warmth .
you can not keep a horse stabled on two hours exercise a week the conditions are unacceptable and you need to find an alternative and that may be paying someone to exercise the horse the other five days .
and no I would not leave a horse shivering that has no option to move and burn energy to produce warmth .
you can not keep a horse stabled on two hours exercise a week the conditions are unacceptable and you need to find an alternative and that may be paying someone to exercise the horse the other five days .
irishdraft
Well-Known Member
No I would never clip to lose weight and never in a million years would I keep horses under these conditions what ever my circumstances but that's just me .
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webble
Well-Known Member
It must be costing a fortune to keep them in, grass, retirement or track livery might actually be cheaper
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Not neccessarily re the ridden or movement everyday. I currently keep my horse in Germany (where I live) and have kept him at other stables in Germany as well as visited others. It's sad. The competition horses usually don't see any turnout in the summer either. I get it, they're expensive, but I just cannot keep a horse in a box 24/7 365 except for when it is working or in the walker.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Also something I don't get. Having done a DIY situation and worked at a stable in my younger day to afford my horse habit, turnout is easier. Less bedding, less mess in the stall, less hay (if there is grass outside), less dealing with horses going stiry crazy in their boxes. I was more than happy to turn out every morning or turn in every evening. Having an empty stable made work simpler.