Coldbacked help

[Pearlsasinger]

My Appy can still do that. I've often wondered if its something to do with her eyesight - she will stare at whatever has moved and roll those human eyes of hers expressively at it. Not helped by trees changing from green to yellow in Autumn. Naughty trees.

Ours used to hate being approached for grooming, or anything else from the left, she was fine if you came at her from the right. Even now, she sometimes startles if you approach from the left with a brush in your hand, although she then remembers herself and normal service is resumed. We know that she had been unhandled living out for her first 3 yrs and then started and sold (to us)within 6 weeks.

 

[milliepops]

I rode away a horse that had been backed twice as the first time the owners just chucked their young child up in the saddle with no preparation whatsoever and the horse utterly panicked and bolted, jumped a 5 bar gate the works.

He was difficult to mount for a long while after but fine once you were past that initial thing.
With him it was easy to understand because there had been a trigger that really affected him at a very important stage of his life.

He would zone out when you stood him by the mounting block and you had to really get him to focus on and think about what was happening because if he didn't concentrate while you mounted then he would panic when he "came to". it was a protective mechanism for him and he had to be coaxed out of that disappearing act that his brain did.

I wonder if it's something similar if you are certain there is nothing physical going on. In which case be prepared for the long haul and it not to completely go away ever.

 

[soph15]

He’s so young, poor boy to have been through so much. I would turn him away for a good 6 months, let him get over all the trauma and just be a horse, and then start him from scratch again yourself at home. Spend the 6 months just getting to know him better and gaining his trust in a relaxed no-pressure way. Sounds like he’s a lovely character and really deserves a second chance, best of luck with him.

Thank you, he really is the sweetest horse and I’m going to take all the time it takes for him to be happy relaxed ?

 

[soph15]

My Appy can still do that. I've often wondered if its something to do with her eyesight - she will stare at whatever has moved and roll those human eyes of hers expressively at it. Not helped by trees changing from green to yellow in Autumn. Naughty trees.

My boy is crossed with an Appy too?

 

[Fanatical]

Sorry but for me cold backed = pain. It's very black and white. And I have a recent case to back my view up with this. I had had the horse scoped for ulcers and had back xrayed for kissing spines and all was clear. Having subsequently had the horse put through a full body scintagraphy scan we are now aware of the multitude of issues he has and I am surprised he ever let anyone on his back at all!

Horses are generous, willing creatures. The horse you are describing IS in pain. Please listen to him.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My boy is crossed with an Appy too?

In that case I would test for PSSM

 

[soph15]

I rode away a horse that had been backed twice as the first time the owners just chucked their young child up in the saddle with no preparation whatsoever and the horse utterly panicked and bolted, jumped a 5 bar gate the works.

He was difficult to mount for a long while after but fine once you were past that initial thing.
With him it was easy to understand because there had been a trigger that really affected him at a very important stage of his life.

He would zone out when you stood him by the mounting block and you had to really get him to focus on and think about what was happening because if he didn't concentrate while you mounted then he would panic when he "came to". it was a protective mechanism for him and he had to be coaxed out of that disappearing act that his brain did.

I wonder if it's something similar if you are certain there is nothing physical going on. In which case be prepared for the long haul and it not to completely go away ever.

Thank you for your reply, it sounds very similar to my boy. Obviously it’s impossible to rule out everything physical but I’m doing everything I can to try and rule out these. I’m prepared to do anything that will help him settle and it’s nice to hear you’ve experienced a similar thing with another horse. He’s really been traumatised in the past, to the point you could barely get a head collar on without him flinching so I’ve spent so much time just bonding with him so he lets me stroke his face. I really hope I can find a solution that works for him ?

 

[soph15]

In that case I would test for PSSM

Thank you, I’ll get in touch with my vets asap to get this tested!

 

[soph15]

Sorry but for me cold backed = pain. It's very black and white. And I have a recent case to back my view up with this. I had had the horse scoped for ulcers and had back xrayed for kissing spines and all was clear. Having subsequently had the horse put through a full body scintagraphy scan we are now aware of the multitude of issues he has and I am surprised he ever let anyone on his back at all!

Horses are generous, willing creatures. The horse you are describing IS in pain. Please listen to him.

I asked the vet about doing a full body scintagraphy scan but they said they were convinced it wasn’t pain related, but I’ll push and get this done regardless as I only want what’s best for my horse.

 

[Fanatical]

Sorry but for me cold backed = pain. It's very black and white. And I have a recent case to back my view up with this. I had had the horse scoped for ulcers and had back xrayed for kissing spines and all was clear. Having subsequently had the horse put through a full body scintagraphy scan we are now aware of the multitude of issues he has and I am surprised he ever let anyone on his back at all!

Horses are generous, willing creatures. The horse you are describing IS in pain. Please listen to him.

I asked the vet about doing a full body scintagraphy scan but they said they were convinced it wasn’t pain related, but I’ll push and get this done regardless as I only want what’s best for my horse.

More fool your vet! Nobody can know for sure without running through all possible diagnostics. I am very glad to hear you hold your horses best interests at heart.

 

[Goldenstar]

OP you need another vet that’s something no one can say until you have pursued diagnostics through to the end .
Bone scanning is often the best thing with horses like this and scanning the hind suspensories .I would always do these things in a ‘found nothing wrong ‘horse who the vets can’t find a thing wrong with .

 

[Dyllymoo]

I asked the vet about doing a full body scintagraphy scan but they said they were convinced it wasn’t pain related, but I’ll push and get this done regardless as I only want what’s best for my horse.

My vet said my horse was naughty and wasn't in pain (over 4 separate vet visits as I was convinced something was wrong), I pushed and got her referred to Sue Dyson, Animal Health Trust and she has PSD in both hinds, SI issues and negative rotation of both pedal bones in her front feet. She was in a lot of pain.

If you are insured (I wasn't - long story!) I would push for tests now.

 

[SEL]

Thank you, I’ll get in touch with my vets asap to get this tested!

With Appy I'd start with the hair test for PSSM type 1 because it is cheap and doesn't need a vet. Ignore all the references to tying up because very few owners see their horse have a full scale 'freeze to the spot' tying up session. Those that do have usually had underlying symptoms for quite some time.

Mine was reactive, spooky (spook, buck, bolt was her default) and cold backed. Once going she was then sluggish and like riding through treacle. It was setting off alarm bells with me for quite some time - usually 'lazy' horses are just laid back all the time. One minute she was hard to get going and the next her eyes would be on stalks feeling like she was about to explode. Getting to the bottom of what was wrong took a while and a lucky read of an article.

https://www.animalgenetics.eu/Equine/equine-genetic-disease/PSSM.html

 

[ester]

Ditto SEL that would be my starting point, cheap and easy to do.

 

[soph15]

With Appy I'd start with the hair test for PSSM type 1 because it is cheap and doesn't need a vet. Ignore all the references to tying up because very few owners see their horse have a full scale 'freeze to the spot' tying up session. Those that do have usually had underlying symptoms for quite some time.

Mine was reactive, spooky (spook, buck, bolt was her default) and cold backed. Once going she was then sluggish and like riding through treacle. It was setting off alarm bells with me for quite some time - usually 'lazy' horses are just laid back all the time. One minute she was hard to get going and the next her eyes would be on stalks feeling like she was about to explode. Getting to the bottom of what was wrong took a while and a lucky read of an article.

https://www.animalgenetics.eu/Equine/equine-genetic-disease/PSSM.html

Thank you this is really useful to know, I’ll look further into this too?

 

[clairekat]

My mare was cold backed and would collapse on girthing. I always rode with sheepskin saddle cloth and girth, tacked up and waited before mounting, used a mounting block that she could move around. She would usually be walking as I mounted and always kept weight off back for first few steps. These steps all helped and reduced the collapsing to non-existent although was very tricky for others to mount unless I had ridden her first

 

[ycbm]

its only on mounting when he panics and does this

You've a fighting chance of it being behavioural , then, and he's young. Best of luck retraining him, will you keep us updated?

 

[ycbm]

My boy is crossed with an Appy too?

I've got an Appyx too, and he does the zone out thing and then jumps when you touch him.

 

[ycbm]

Thank you, I’ll get in touch with my vets asap to get this tested!

You dont need a vet, just pull out some mane and send it to these people

https://www.animalgenetics.eu/

Be aware though that the test is only for type one and there is at least one other type, probably more.

ETA just seen sel already posted

 

[Leandy]

I rode away a horse that had been backed twice as the first time the owners just chucked their young child up in the saddle with no preparation whatsoever and the horse utterly panicked and bolted, jumped a 5 bar gate the works.

He was difficult to mount for a long while after but fine once you were past that initial thing.
With him it was easy to understand because there had been a trigger that really affected him at a very important stage of his life.

He would zone out when you stood him by the mounting block and you had to really get him to focus on and think about what was happening because if he didn't concentrate while you mounted then he would panic when he "came to". it was a protective mechanism for him and he had to be coaxed out of that disappearing act that his brain did.

I wonder if it's something similar if you are certain there is nothing physical going on. In which case be prepared for the long haul and it not to completely go away ever.

This was my thought also. We had one once which was bought as "unbacked". Actually when we came to back her we ultimately found that if a rider was legged up carefully there was no issue, but when we got to the stage of putting your foot in the stirrup to mount normally, she panicked and ran away broncing. She was otherwise kind and sensible. We concluded that almost certainly some muppet had tried to back her by just putting on a saddle, putting a foot in the stirrup and going to get on. It freaked her out and she hadn't forgotten it. We did get through it but it took some time. We actually stopped trying to persuade her to stand still at a mounting block to be mounted with a foot in the stirrup and for a while just legged up the rider whilst she was moving in a small circle. She was happier with that and so we did it for some time, whilst otherwise continuing her education. Once she was a bit more educated and being tacked up and ridden was no longer new and slightly scary, we went back to the mounting. It was always necessary to get on quickly and not fiddle about or she got anxious, but she did generally grow out of the problem.

Agree with the others though. If you can't solve this issue, please don't pass him on again.

 

[dorsetladette]

This was my thought also. We had one once which was bought as "unbacked". Actually when we came to back her we ultimately found that if a rider was legged up carefully there was no issue, but when we got to the stage of putting your foot in the stirrup to mount normally, she panicked and ran away broncing. She was otherwise kind and sensible. We concluded that almost certainly some muppet had tried to back her by just putting on a saddle, putting a foot in the stirrup and going to get on. It freaked her out and she hadn't forgotten it. We did get through it but it took some time. We actually stopped trying to persuade her to stand still at a mounting block to be mounted with a foot in the stirrup and for a while just legged up the rider whilst she was moving in a small circle. She was happier with that and so we did it for some time, whilst otherwise continuing her education. Once she was a bit more educated and being tacked up and ridden was no longer new and slightly scary, we went back to the mounting. It was always necessary to get on quickly and not fiddle about or she got anxious, but she did generally grow out of the problem.

Agree with the others though. If you can't solve this issue, please don't pass him on again.

This is sort of where I was going with my thinking when I asked about being legged up.

People with little knowledge or patience or sometimes both do so much damage to horses. Not aimed at anyone, just observations made over many years. I could tell many stories of my parents (and now me) fixing 'broken' ponies with time and patience after people have 'broken' them in one way or another. Some animals are genuinely scared and react due to remembered pain.

 

[soph15]

You've a fighting chance of it being behavioural , then, and he's young. Best of luck retraining him, will you keep us updated?

yes I’ll keep you all updated, thank you everyone for your help and advice! ?

 

[soph15]

This was my thought also. We had one once which was bought as "unbacked". Actually when we came to back her we ultimately found that if a rider was legged up carefully there was no issue, but when we got to the stage of putting your foot in the stirrup to mount normally, she panicked and ran away broncing. She was otherwise kind and sensible. We concluded that almost certainly some muppet had tried to back her by just putting on a saddle, putting a foot in the stirrup and going to get on. It freaked her out and she hadn't forgotten it. We did get through it but it took some time. We actually stopped trying to persuade her to stand still at a mounting block to be mounted with a foot in the stirrup and for a while just legged up the rider whilst she was moving in a small circle. She was happier with that and so we did it for some time, whilst otherwise continuing her education. Once she was a bit more educated and being tacked up and ridden was no longer new and slightly scary, we went back to the mounting. It was always necessary to get on quickly and not fiddle about or she got anxious, but she did generally grow out of the problem.

Agree with the others though. If you can't solve this issue, please don't pass him on again.

Thank you, what you’re describing is just like my boy, he will only do this bolt and bronk when you put a foot in a stirrup and mount using a block. He’s much calmer using a leg up but obviously this is a bit of a nuisance as have to rely on someone being at home to help me on, but if it works for him I’ll persist with this.

But don’t worry, I’ve already said further up that he’s not going anywhere. Even if I can’t sort this issue he will still remain with me for his life as an expensive lawn mower!

 

[soph15]

This is sort of where I was going with my thinking when I asked about being legged up.

People with little knowledge or patience or sometimes both do so much damage to horses. Not aimed at anyone, just observations made over many years. I could tell many stories of my parents (and now me) fixing 'broken' ponies with time and patience after people have 'broken' them in one way or another. Some animals are genuinely scared and react due to remembered pain.

Yes and I think this is what’s causing my boy to be frightened as I think his education has been rushing causing something horrific to happen at the mounting block. Poor boy came to me terrified of everything, first time I put him in his stable I moved the wooden bar across his stable door and he cowered into the back snorting and rearing as though he thought I was going to hit him with it. It’s difficult buying from a dealer and having no clue about his background but to be honest I think if I knew what happened to him in the past it would just upset me

 

[SpringArising]

I don't have anything to say regarding the horse that hasn't already been posted, but I just wanted to say that you sound like a lovely owner for a horse to have. It's clear that you care about him and are prepared to do the right thing by him.

 

[Pinkvboots]

A livery I knew some years back had a similar thing with her horse after many vet visits x rays they found he had a neck fracture.

 

[soph15]

I don't have anything to say regarding the horse that hasn't already been posted, but I just wanted to say that you sound like a lovely owner for a horse to have. It's clear that you care about him and are prepared to do the right thing by him.

Aww thank you, I love this horse to pieces. I never thought I’d bond with another horse after my last boy who reached 30 years, he’s such a special horse?

Picture of the cheeky special horse?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

He has a lovely face!

I'm not suggesting that you try now but do you know what he does if you get on from a block without putting your foot in the stirrup?

 

[soph15]

He has a lovely face!

I'm not suggesting that you try now but do you know what he does if you get on from a block without putting your foot in the stirrup?

I haven’t been able to try this as I’m a midget and he’s a big horse so I’m worried if I don’t get on in one swift motion he will freak out more. I’m waiting for my dad to build me a taller mounting block then I might be able to try this as then it will feel like a leg up for him rather than a mounting block.

 

[cundlegreen]

Thank you, I really appreciate your advice, I think this will be the best thing for him to just go back to step one. He’s a really loving horse and I’ve kept him busy with groundwork exercises which he loves. I won’t be riding for a while now with my ribs so gives me the perfect time to just start him from scratch. Like I said, I’m willing to try anything for him at this point.

Years ago, long before KS and ulcers, I bought a 4 yr old at a sale as a project. I was told he was broken and riding. When I lunged him with a saddle on, he would buck himself onto the ground. Never seen anything like it, likewise when led from another horse. I discovered he was very swollen in his pectoral muscles, and I think it was this that triggered the bucking. I took a long time as he was so worried about the mounting, and it took me 3 months to get on him. It didn't help that he was very tall and I needed a step ladder. He ended up a lovely horse and only bucked me off once when a lead rope went up under his tail. He had obviously been broken roughly with a very tight girth, but was such a kind boy like yours. Keep on doing what you are doing. Sometimes it just takes a lot of time and patience.