Community Access to Private arenas?

[chaps89]

Yeah, I think community access to private facilities will never fly, and you can see how it's hard to have a constructive debate on it even here because people get very wound up by the mere thought.

I'm pretty sure I came across an arena = communal garden-type set-up while I was horse shopping. I tried a horse at a place that looked like a livery yard, but the horse's owner said she owned her three stables and turn-out paddock. There were other stables and fields and turn-out paddocks. Owner said all those were privately owned as well. They had an arena, and I don't quite remember, but the owner said it was kind of a communal space and all the horse owners with access to it helped maintain it.

Ah yes, I’ve seen similar to this. One big plot, divided into smaller plots, up to the individuals as to what stables etc they put in on their plot/how they manage it but central school available for the purposes of all plot owners, with like a leasehold fee charged to cover the maintenance costs

Our local RS wont do arena hire sadly.

However, our local equine college do indoor arena hire when students are not in there.
Tenner each for a 30 min slot, up to 6 persons can book in but it's rare you get more than 2 at a time. Good value for me to drive the 8 miles each way, as its 90 x 30 so can easily work round others if necessary.
In college holidays they might do jumps in there too, £30 for 30 mins includes up to 4 horses. So sharing with friends, it can be a good work out.

It was cheaper for me to get the box nearly 10 years ago. With arena hire and diesel, I'm still quids in rather than spending on an arena at my yard.

I thought the cost at MW was per horse/rider combo? If it’s £30 between the number of riders booked in for the slot that makes it much more affordable!

 

[Big Bay Mare]

Careful now, you sound like a communist ?
We have just had Andrews Bowen surface laid and the possibility of me letting all and sundry use and abuse it is about 0%

 

[twobearsarthur]

There are a couple of community arenas that I know of, which seems like a really interesting concept - they're not particularly close to me so I don't use them or know how they are funded, maintained, insured, booked etc, but it's definitely an interesting model.

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/new...ty-arena-scheme-hope-to-inspire-others-716980

https://odrc.co.uk/friezland-arena/

Friezland is an amazing facility. With toilets, a stone mounting block, parking, picnic areas and direct bridlepath access.
I used to hack 4 miles each way to Friezland Arena in the late 80’s/90’s. There isn’t a booking system and it’s owned by Oldham Council who have a SLA with the local riding & pony club, bridleways and residents association in regards to the upkeep. Funds for the upkeep are raised through horse shows held there and by becoming a friend of Friezland.
It’s a real shame that there aren’t more of these type of public arenas for people to enjoy because they can work, Friezland has been going for 35+ years.

 

[Lyle]

To off-set the land use and apparent environmental impacts of putting in an arena, surely there area miriad of options that don't involve random strangers having access to your property and facilities for the equivalent of a month evey year?
Just off the top of my head-
- plant and flower revegitation on property- borders around arena/fields/fencelines/areas of grassland with species appropriate flowers and plants for the local wildlife.
- if on property is not an option, then a contribution to a local environmental group who will undertake re-vegitation in areas of need.
-development of better off-road hacking or safer verge side hacking if needed to enable riders to access genuine equine business facilities (this can also be used for other forms of pedestrian activity) to perhaps mitigate the need for some horse owners to need an arena.

I really fail to see how encouraging people to use their large cars towing trailers around the place to various different private arenas all year long (because they don't have their own) is doing anything positive for the environment?

I'd say the environmental group needs it explained to them that a private arena is not the same as a public tennis court- where every man and his dog can use on a balmy afternoon for a spot of tennis once every 5 years. Horse riding is not a 'put down and pick up again' hobby, it's a year round commitment.

I also found the label of entitled pretty hypocritical; an environental group who has not made the effort to grasp WHY owners are choosing to develop a 20x40m patch of the THEIR land, are then proposing to tell these home owners that they need to allow the general public access to it, and foot the bill for upgraded insurance and swallow the general upset and displacement this policy would cause.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Ah yes, I’ve seen similar to this. One big plot, divided into smaller plots, up to the individuals as to what stables etc they put in on their plot/how they manage it but central school available for the purposes of all plot owners, with like a leasehold fee charged to cover the maintenance costs


I thought the cost at MW was per horse/rider combo? If it’s £30 between the number of riders booked in for the slot that makes it much more affordable!

For 30 mins sj hire, yes im sure it's £30 that slot, or was when I looked last week,maybe I'm missing something x
I know for open hire with no jumps or boards up it's 10 per person and up to 6 'can' book in that slot. Usually there isn't more than 2 or 3 in there.

 

[palo1]

Hmm, I genuinely think the group of people that were discussing this and put the idea forward as an informal suggestion would be amazed at how strongly horse owners/land owners feel and haven't also taken into consideration the way those using communal facilities may be made to feel too; probably a grudging but somewhat resentful acceptance from the landowner - not good. It is something I understand however as locally we have seen a number of particularly large and likely to be very little used arenas put in on traditional pasture. The local group exploring environmental issues just see that really - lot of individual 'development' for leisure purposes which I guess they feel is unnecessary and wonder why 'horse people' can't share a bit more! There are several arenas that are hireable close by and for me, those centres do need supporting and offer instruction, safety and community. I also sigh when I hear that someone who has moved to the area because it is so wonderful and 'unspoilt', having spent a winter here, suddenly decides that they must have an arena put in. I can't help that, I am sorry. I do want to see new people coming in - I am naturally quite sociable and open but...kick me if you want to, I find that aspect of 'newness' a bit dispiriting. I am also a bit saddened that this probably means people are not using the local centres OR enjoying the amazing outriding we have here. But that is entirely personal and really shouldn't be a matter for anything other than personal opinion and choice.

In contrast, there have been few agricultural developments locally and very few that have been outside existing yards/built environments. I think local horse owners probably have resulted in more non-house building 'development' than farmers in the last 4 years.

What is more relevant and interesting for me is the way that more and more people are invested in every kind of decision about land use - it all seems open for discussion, including, as @ycbm and @Caol Ila pointed out earlier in the thread things like the occasional scrap heap/junk yard, the wintering of stock out in the fields (only one farm locally out-winters their cattle) which has always previously been totally uncommented on but is now getting attention.
Again it is ironic that the welfare of the cattle is not so much discussed (which perhaps it should be) but the impact on the land.

'Scruffy' livery yards get commented on too. We have a fab local, very low impact livery yard that provides grass livery and basic stabling and has been brilliantly managed for years - as long as I can remember. It is a bit 'scruffy' - with temporary fencing to ensure that grazing is managed for horses and the fields, the wooden stables are old etc but it is hugely accessible financially and the yard manager is very well respected and provides far more than just 'accomodation' as she is a passionate and knowledgeable horsewoman that supports her liveries really well. Most of the liveries have been there for years and there is a waiting list for a place there. But in the last 2 years the 'appearance' of the yard has been brought up at Parish Council meetings; usually totally squashed but the attention is there where previously no-one would have even thought to mention it!!

If we had an arena here, the only place we could put it would make 'sharing' it a total nightmare as we have horses with a kind of 'paddock paradise' (erm, mud paradise currently!) with where an arena would fit would require driving through the stock safari! BUT if we made it public that we had rare flowers or birds on the land I bet that local people (some of them!!) would feel a new sense of determination for us to 'share' those. I keep teasing my OH that I am going to tell everyone we have those things so that we get more 'company' in fact...

I just think that anything we do with land is increasingly scrutinised, contested and discussed so I am not sure that our castles are impregnable in the way they used to be. In the context of environmental crisis I do think things should be discussed, questioned and reviewed actually but the lack of nuance and tolerance all round makes that really tricky to move forward. I know that there are far, far more significant climate/environmental issues than the impact of arenas etc but at a local level people really do get quite fixated on what they see and feel is 'changeable' - as opposed to trying to take on, for example Coca-Cola, Nestle or entire foreign governments!

 

[cauda equina]

Re the scruffy livery yard - is it newbies on the PC who are complaining?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Palo, where I am livery and private yards are being built on, all across the county.
I know of 3 private places locally that were small private yard with house, arena and paddocks that are now mini housing estates ?

 

[palo1]

Palo, where I am livery and private yards are being built on, all across the county.
I know of 3 private places locally that were small private yard with house, arena and paddocks that are now mini housing estates ?

Yes, I know. There is a concern I think that where a yard/shed/arena goes in that subsequently that could be developed for housing - we are a bit behind some other parts of the country I guess!

 

[palo1]

Re the scruffy livery yard - is it newbies on the PC who are complaining?

Yes! They are undoubtedly passionate about the environment/climate change but possibly not absolutely clear about how best to present or pursue that agenda.

 

[ycbm]

Palo how do the people complaining about arena builds feel about farms which are now acres upon acre of sheds or hectare upon hectare upon hectare of polytunnel, often accompanied by a large village of portacabin accommodation for seasonal workers?

I'm afraid when I hear farmers described as "guardians of the countryside", I give a hollow laugh.

I throughly respect the job that farmers do to produce food, and how hard a job it us, but it's a bit rich for that industry to moan about a few acres of arena. I don't know if it's different in your area of the country but I'm talking about land within the borders of a National Park with the industrial shed complexes, and beautiful open countryside elsewhere visually ruined by polytunnel.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

Those poly tunnels produce food that does less miles in transport to get to where it gets to the table .
So they are a good thing .
Farming is an industry farms are factories .

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Well where I am, green fields are being built on and covered in huge Intensive Poultry Units with all of the associated pollutants.

 

[ycbm]

Those poly tunnels produce food that does less miles in transport to get to where it gets to the table .
So they are a good thing .
Farming is an industry farms are factories .

Of course, and as I said I thoroughly respect that they produce food to feed people. The comment was made in the context of people from that industry complaining about private arenas.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

Growing vegetables in polytunnels is a thing most environmentalists will support .
We will need acres no miles more of them them to go forward to the meat free future they envisage us having .
We will also need huge factories to produce meat free protein .

 

[palo1]

Palo how do the people complaining about arena builds feel about farms which are now acres upon acre of sheds or hectare upon hectare upon hectare of polytunnel, often accompanied by a large village of portacabin accommodation for seasonal workers?

I'm afraid when I hear farmers described as "guardians of the countryside", I give a hollow laugh.

I throughly respect the job that farmers do to produce food, and how hard a job it us, but it's a bit rich for that industry to moan about a few acres of arena. I don't know if it's different in your area of the country but I'm talking about land within the borders of a National Park with the industrial shed complexes, and beautiful open countryside elsewhere visually ruined by polytunnel.
.

Well tbh, in our locality we don't have farms that are acres on acres of sheds or any polytunnels or portacabins really. It is very 'traditional' in farming terms with considerable upland/unimproved pasture. Farmers don't tend to moan about arenas so much as the 'suburbanisation' of what is a very rural area - they feel, generally that wealth and money for leisure that is moving in is a threat for lots of reasons - including increased demand/price of land and housing, issues around boundaries, muck heaps, cockerels etc etc!! There is real angst about how local kids will be able to afford a local home and some of that angst is laid at the door of people who have moved in, having cashed in and retired from elsewhere. I think there are some politics of envy there too as well as genuine discomfort. Arenas are a symptom of that anxiety for farmers but they generally mutter about it rather than suggest changes - unlike the group of keen environmentalists who want to suggest and promote change. That is a 'younger' and generally professionally employed group of people as well as a few newly retired folk who really are well meaning. Farming here is generally livestock based, with some spuds and arable where possible; I think because of the predominance of pretty unintensive farming and a more direct meat to market to butcher model that is common here, farming perhaps isn't as contested so much here as it is where there is greater intensification and the sort of mass poly tunnels etc that other see. Horses have a fairly unusual position; many, many farmers and locals will keep a horse/pony or graze hills with them so they are widely accepted on the whole. However, there is a kind of no-nonsense approach to horses that is not aligned to 'wealthy leisure riders' with their fancy arenas, micro-management, large lorries and accessories that are 'normal' for many places. For the newer, more environmentally aware locals, those things are also uncomfortable as that level of wealth/leisure/impact seems unnecessary and uncomfortable for them too.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Why on earth should public money be spent on something that would benefit so few?

The centre where I ride belongs to the town; periodically (I think it's every three years) the contract to run the centre is put out to tender. When I arrived it was run by the UCPA and it's currently run by a smaller commercial company.

There are dozens of yards and riding centres here, and for the annual fee for use of facilities (I'm guessing here, but it would be between €800 and €2000 depending of facilities available) and an hourly fee (I'll try to find out more precisely, but I think that some are included in the annual fee, some are a symbolic €10, others as high as €50) there are easily a dozen within a radius of 2km of my home.

I live in a somewhat atypical town, though.

For an example of the kinds of arenas that are available, take a look at the website of the Jumping (not for profit association that manages other places belonging to the town).

Membership there costs €160 + €55 joining fee for the first year only, then annually €540.

To hire out the "Croix de Noailles" arena for half a day costs €150.

 

[ycbm]

There is real angst about how local kids will be able to afford a local home and some of that angst is laid at the door of people who have moved in, having cashed in and retired from elsewhere.

Quite rightly, too. We were always happy that this place was on the market for a long time and reduced in price by a third by the time we bought it, so nobody local could ever say we were rich southerners taking property from the locals. It's shameful what has happened in popular tourist destinations. Abersoch is known around here as "Cheshire on Sea".
.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

i think these conversations are worth having,at least then the pros and cons have been weighed up and non-horsey types can understand why it wouldn’t work.
There is a development near here, which I had forgotten, whereby each part of the steading up for development came with a couple of acres or less. I think there is an indoor but I don’t know the conditions of use.

We did look at a plot but people were still too darn close for my liking, I would never pay that much to be so close to other people. But practically,as long as you all get on it would have its upsides.

 

[twiggy2]

The centre where I ride belongs to the town; periodically (I think it's every three years) the contract to run the centre is put out to tender. When I arrived it was run by the UCPA and it's currently run by a smaller commercial company.

There are dozens of yards and riding centres here, and for the annual fee for use of facilities (I'm guessing here, but it would be between €800 and €2000 depending of facilities available) and an hourly fee (I'll try to find out more precisely, but I think that some are included in the annual fee, some are a symbolic €10, others as high as €50) there are easily a dozen within a radius of 2km of my home.

I live in a somewhat atypical town, though.

For an example of the kinds of arenas that are available, take a look at the website of the Jumping (not for profit association that manages other places belonging to the town).

Membership there costs €160 + €55 joining fee for the first year only, then annually €540.

To hire out the "Croix de Noailles" arena for half a day costs €150.

My response was in reply to the suggestion that areanas be put in for use like play areas and football pitches which in the UK there is no charge for using.
Even so there are in most areas of the UK arenas for hire already and for the majority horse riding is a sport that cannot be afforded and with public finances as they are I still ask why so much money should be spent on something to be used by so few.

 

[criso]

Quite rightly, too. We were always happy that this place was on the market for a long time and reduced in price by a third by the time we bought it, so nobody local could ever say we were rich southerners taking property from the locals. It's shameful what has happened in popular tourist destinations. Abersoch is known around here as "Cheshire on Sea".
.

I suppose the argument is that the reason it was on the market so long was that pressures from outside meant it was priced out of the local market even after the reduction.

That's not a criticism of you, I bought in London where I could afford and now 15 years later is in it's way to gentrification, ordinary people are priced out and I was arguably a part of that. We can't step outside the system and buy and live where we can.

 

[palo1]

Quite rightly, too. We were always happy that this place was on the market for a long time and reduced in price by a third by the time we bought it, so nobody local could ever say we were rich southerners taking property from the locals. It's shameful what has happened in popular tourist destinations. Abersoch is known around here as "Cheshire on Sea".
.

I was born and spent part of my childhood in Padstow. The last time I visited, several years ago I felt actually a bit sick and heartbroken about what that community has experienced. I have been told that it is just the result of supply and demand and that if Wolverhampton had a nice view the same would have happened there. Both those things are true but it doesn't mean that that level of change and the large scale inward migration of wealth is beneficial in true 'community' terms. Rock has become essentially a gated (through an extraordinary level of wealth) community whilst Padstow is now a pretty much gutless pretty postcard.

It's really such a difficult issue to even begin to discuss but I totally understand why other communities, such as the one I have been part of since I left Cornwall feel so anxious. I do think that there needs to be a different approach to consumption, to house prices, to access to land and property than we have seen in some parts of the UK. I have no idea how that could be even discussed at a hypothetical level tbh or how many issues there are/would be to untangle. I actually do believe in traditional communities and think they need supporting, protecting and investing in. I think young people need to have access to land and opportunities. Sometimes that could be at the cost of a degree of individual liberty and that is difficult.

 

[cauda equina]

I agree, affordable housing is a huge problem in many areas but I don't think making people share their arena will help one bit

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Yes, I know. There is a concern I think that where a yard/shed/arena goes in that subsequently that could be developed for housing - we are a bit behind some other parts of the country I guess!

It's any big house that goes 1st. Folk dont want to spend to renovate, so property gets sold to developers, bonus if it's got any land to speak of

 

[Goldenstar]

The village where we have the house that we are doing up to downsize into is over 50% second homes and Holiday lets .
Now if you build and new house or spilt down a big house into flats they cannot be used as holiday homes .
There was a local referendum for this great you might think but in truth what locals have done is make their houses worth more.
In truth this is not really wont make much difference as there’s not really any space for new houses .
I understand the madness of the theme park the iconic places like Padstow have become .But I am not sure what to do about it and at base of it all locals took the money to sell their homes at the start .
It’s something I think about a lot my father always told us that we where privileged to live somewhere people want to come on holiday and I think he’s right.
Many people hate the tourists but I like the rhythm it brings to the village it’s always changing and the services we have would be fewer without them .

 

[southerncomfort]

These people don't sound like environmentalists, they sound like Marxists.

Regarding community facilities, I'd far rather see free to use football pitches, basketball courts, tennis courts etc.

I used to work for a parish council that had all the above facilities but insisted on charging for their use, so only established clubs used them. If they caught any kids using them without paying they'd kick them off with a flea in their ear.

It made me really angry that they denied access to those who would benefit the most.

 

[paddy555]

Many people hate the tourists but I like the rhythm it brings to the village it’s always changing and the services we have would be fewer without them .

for us it's a couple of gift shops, a lot of tourists who can't reverse or won't reverse, second homes and holiday lets.

 

[Arzada]

Hmm, I genuinely think the group of people that were discussing this and put the idea forward as an informal suggestion would be amazed at how strongly horse owners/land owners feel and haven't also taken into consideration the way those using communal facilities may be made to feel too; probably a grudging but somewhat resentful acceptance from the landowner - not good. It is something I understand however as locally we have seen a number of particularly large and likely to be very little used arenas put in on traditional pasture. The local group exploring environmental issues just see that really - lot of individual 'development' for leisure purposes which I guess they feel is unnecessary and wonder why 'horse people' can't share a bit more!

Out of interest, what assets do these environmentalists share with their community?

 

[Keith_Beef]

These people don't sound like environmentalists, they sound like Marxists.

They're watermelons: green on the outside, red on the inside.

 

[Goldenstar]

Out of interest, what assets do these environmentalists share with their community?

Quite .