Community Access to Private arenas?

[Winters100]

what i want to see is all wasted money spent on something useful including riding surfaces

And you are able to eliminate waste in any public or private organisation? If you could do so you would be a genius.

How many of these do you want to build nationwide?

How much would the cost be per arena?

How would they be managed?

What would the cost of insurance be?

I suppose every village needs one, but should every village therefore also have tennis courts, rugby pitch, golf course etc to cater for other hobbies?

As ycbm said it can all be done IF you want to pay for it. The idea that you will fund it by eliminating waste in public services is simply not realistic.

 

[Arzada]

I suppose every village needs one, but should every village therefore also have tennis courts, rugby pitch, golf course etc to cater for other hobbies?

My preference is for allotments

 

[Goldenstar]

The money spent on my school has not been wasted it’s been enjoyed a lot over the years .
It also represents many holidays that we did not have clothes I never bought and a lot of things I could have had I did not have .

 

[Goldenstar]

In the village where the other house there where allotments they where in use when I was a child probably about a third of them but they they became unused and then they got built over .
The village will never have allotments again there’s no space .

 

[tristar]

And you are able to eliminate waste in any public or private organisation? If you could do so you would be a genius.

How many of these do you want to build nationwide?

How much would the cost be per arena?

How would they be managed?

What would the cost of insurance be?

I suppose every village needs one, but should every village therefore also have tennis courts, rugby pitch, golf course etc to cater for other hobbies?

As ycbm said it can all be done IF you want to pay for it. The idea that you will fund it by eliminating waste in public services is simply not realistic.

i don`t want to get into where there is waste, i can see it allover, from johnson swilling wine in the garden to food brought in for xmas parties, it starts at the top, economies run by morons

i think its a great idea in areas of need, for those who are not in position to fund a house with land or even their own transport, i have lived in areas years ago with huge horse populations and very little facilities, they are part of the local economy generating income and jobs.

my own preference would be self funding, although the ones i was was told about were funded by the council, if i had no access to a surface i would be more than willing to partly fund such a project and help with fund raising

i tend to look at the end result and then find a way to achieve it

i think you are over reacting and using a sledgehammer on a nut to demolish an idea that is relatively simple and would bring much joy to those who are not so fortunate as ourselves and make a few dreams come true, and greatly benefit the health of horses

i see no reason for planning consent being necessary for riding surfaces, other than getting money out of people,
apart from protecting views and privacy through positioning, and intrusive use of lighting

i think you have your knickers in about nothing, i am worried about you !

 

[DirectorFury]

Re:funding - the community arena that I posted about in Llanelli was funded (I think 100% funded) from grants that were available from various charities and organisations — I seem to remember a National Lottery grant making up most of it. The BHS Access Officer for the area was the one who put in the huge amount of work doing the grant applications.

There are options beyond councils funding the construction of arenas (hard agree that they shouldn’t fund stuff like that) but they need a dedicated person, or group of people, and far too many would really like a community arena but are unwilling to put the time and effort in to finding and applying for funding.

There’s a separate argument/discussion to be had about people moving into an area and deciding that their “valuable” contribution will be them opining on perceived environmental issues without any deeper understanding; especially when their opinions have actual real-world consequences for others.

 

[bonnysmum]

I've got to page 6 and now I have to say my piece! I really really hope that people who are lucky enough to have their own arena do occasionally offer it to local friends/acquaintances who may not be so lucky - ditto giving lifts. The responses here are a little bit alarming to those of us really hoping for the occasional act of kindness (to be reciprocated in other ways) to help get us started.

As for the idea of there being 3 or more arenas to hire within half an hour so why the need for community facilities? Perhaps if you live in the rural population centres, not so for those of us in more remote areas. I think community arenas are a fantastic idea. Horse ownership is "elitist" partly because these kinds of facilities don't exist, it doesn't need to be that way. It doesn't cost much more to keep a horse in simple facilities than it does to keep your average large dog - although it's more hard graft of course! Basic safety kit for riding is no different from the kit needed for many other sports that aren't considered elitist. IMO the perceived expense and elitism mostly comes from all the "nice to haves" that have now become an ever growing list of "must haves" for keeping up with the Joneses.

 

[ycbm]

I have been verbally abused at a commercial indoor school for wanting to go in at my booked (and paid for) time, I dread to think what sense of entitlement people like that would have over a publicly funded arena.

I had friends who liveried near the arena near Saddleworth and I believe it was pretty much impossible for them to get on it at the weekends 25 years ago.

It sounds like a lovely idea in a society flooded with taxpayers money, but the reality is that people build arenas even if they are already very near a commercial one because of the pain of hiring it.
.

 

[milliepops]

I've got to page 6 and now I have to say my piece! I really really hope that people who are lucky enough to have their own arena do occasionally offer it to local friends/acquaintances who may not be so lucky - ditto giving lifts. The responses here are a little bit alarming to those of us really hoping for the occasional act of kindness (to be reciprocated in other ways) to help get us started.

I was really lucky that as a teen i was given a massive horsey leg-up by a very generous person in the community who lent me rides, equipment, facilities and transport, in return for some enthusiastic hard labour . Having later been in the position of having hard-won personal facilities i understand the protective instinct but I know i am only doing the stuff I do now, because of that generosity i received years ago.

I'm back on livery now and trundling along like most horse owners without a horsey property but I am always aware of how lucky i was then and I hope to be able to pay it forward somehow eventually.

 

[bonnysmum]

I was really lucky that as a teen i was given a massive horsey leg-up by a very generous person in the community who lent me rides, equipment, facilities and transport, in return for some enthusiastic hard labour . Having later been in the position of having hard-won personal facilities i understand the protective instinct but I know i am only doing the stuff I do now, because of that generosity i received years ago.

I'm back on livery now and trundling along like most horse owners without a horsey property but I am always aware of how lucky i was then and I hope to be able to pay it forward somehow eventually.

<3

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I've got to page 6 and now I have to say my piece! I really really hope that people who are lucky enough to have their own arena do occasionally offer it to local friends/acquaintances who may not be so lucky - ditto giving lifts. The responses here are a little bit alarming to those of us really hoping for the occasional act of kindness (to be reciprocated in other ways) to help get us started.

I tried, I really did. I let a local girl ride CM (in the school here) who really went sweetly for her on the flat despite the rider being a novice. Soon I was told that she was bored and wanted to jump. I had to end the arrangement because it wouldn't have been safe because CM is tricky to jump.

My Mum arranged for a different girl to come and see the horses, I was not asked before hand, but she arrived and I tried to give her a nice time. It took a lot of time and effort to ensure that everything was safe and that it went well. She didn't even know how to lead. Thank goodness that my grey is a star to handle and groom. Her mother then offered that the daughter could come back and 'help' regularly which I then had to extract myself from without trying to upset anyone. I don't have the time to essentially fully train someone else's child for free.

Then there were the people who would just turn up (literally ride down the drive) and want to use the school. Oh and then criticise how I kept my horses while they were there.

We did let a neighbour ride in it for a while (for free, in exchange for helping with the upkeep) and it didn't work.

From now on the answer will always be 'no'. In all honestly I would turn the school back into a paddock, but it isn't mine, so I can't sadly. I like to hack so I wouldn't miss it or the upkeep and the entitlement from others has completely ruined it for me TBH. The trailer is currently parked in it.

 

[Keith_Beef]

My response was in reply to the suggestion that areanas be put in for use like play areas and football pitches which in the UK there is no charge for using.
Even so there are in most areas of the UK arenas for hire already and for the majority horse riding is a sport that cannot be afforded and with public finances as they are I still ask why so much money should be spent on something to be used by so few.

There was a thread on here somewhere that more or less complained about horse riding being expensive and elitist, and that there's not enough diversity in the sport at higher levels...

Usually, when an activity is seen as having high barriers to entry, there is a call for some level of publicly funded provision.

 

[southerncomfort]

I've got to page 6 and now I have to say my piece! I really really hope that people who are lucky enough to have their own arena do occasionally offer it to local friends/acquaintances who may not be so lucky - ditto giving lifts. The responses here are a little bit alarming to those of us really hoping for the occasional act of kindness (to be reciprocated in other ways) to help get us started.

As for the idea of there being 3 or more arenas to hire within half an hour so why the need for community facilities? Perhaps if you live in the rural population centres, not so for those of us in more remote areas. I think community arenas are a fantastic idea. Horse ownership is "elitist" partly because these kinds of facilities don't exist, it doesn't need to be that way. It doesn't cost much more to keep a horse in simple facilities than it does to keep your average large dog - although it's more hard graft of course! Basic safety kit for riding is no different from the kit needed for many other sports that aren't considered elitist. IMO the perceived expense and elitism mostly comes from all the "nice to haves" that have now become an ever growing list of "must haves" for keeping up with the Joneses.

For me, I'd happily let my hacking buddy ride in my school, let friends use it for vetting etc but any more than that I know I would find incredibly stressful. Not least because I don't want to be responsible for anyone else's safety and I don't want the role of first responder if someone is injured. That's not being selfish or not wanting to share what I have, it's an acknowledgement that it would cause me huge anxiety.

I think the assertion that someone not wanting to let strangers use their schools is selfish is pretty offensive actually.

To reiterate:

I could not afford the extra insurance and business taxes

I do not want the responsibility of caring for an injured rider.

I'm shy and a very private person and having strangers here day in day out would cause me extreme anxiety.

I would happily give friends horses a lift in my trailer. I would happily lend them a stable in an emergency. I would happily let my closest friend ride in my school. I would happily let local riders use my school for vetting etc.

But I would not hire out to strangers at a hire fee that leaves me out of pocket, and needing to spend time every week on running repairs and maintenance that were not caused by me.

 

[twiggy2]

There was a thread on here somewhere that more or less complained about horse riding being expensive and elitist, and that there's not enough diversity in the sport at higher levels...

Usually, when an activity is seen as having high barriers to entry, there is a call for some level of publicly funded provision.

You dont need access to a specialist surface to ride though its the purchasing and keeping of the horse that is the essential and expensive bit, so unless public funding was going to give people horses and pay for their upkeep it doesn't make it any more accessible.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I have had a think and want to add that I think that it is wrong that I essentially feel guilty (and wrote out loads of reasons as to why I now say 'no') for not letting people ride my horses or ride in the school. Sorry Bonnysmum, but people do have the right to say 'no' if that is what is best for them. I pay all the vet bills and do all the care. I don't try to keep the school in good order so that someone who wouldn't give me the time of day (and yes this is the case) if the school wasn't here, can ride in it. Seriously having the school here has certainly opened my eye to people users. No, I don't lend the trailer out either.

 

[cauda equina]

There was a thread on here somewhere that more or less complained about horse riding being expensive and elitist, and that there's not enough diversity in the sport at higher levels...

Usually, when an activity is seen as having high barriers to entry, there is a call for some level of publicly funded provision.

The call here is for a privately funded public facility
I can't think of any existing examples of that sort of arrangement at all

 

[Keith_Beef]

You dont need access to a specialist surface to ride though its the purchasing and keeping of the horse that is the essential and expensive bit, so unless public funding was going to give people horses and pay for their upkeep it doesn't make it any more accessible.

I'm not suggesting that horses would be made available free of charge to anybody who asks for one...

I was thinking really of novice riders, children and possibly teens, having access to a place to ride like I have access to: owned by the town and management contract awarded to a private company. We have dressage and jump classes and some kids have come up through the levels to be competitive at a regional level. I've not been here long enough, and national and international competitions don't interest me enough, to know if any of the competitors at those levels were originally trained here.

It costs me around €1026 as an adult resident of the town (there is a lower rate for under 18s, there are probably subsidies available for low-income households, and there are higher rates for people from outside the town); this gets me an hour lesson per week during school term time, and the opportunity to sign up for more specialised group classes or extra group classes or riding sessions at around €20 per hour throughout the year. 16 to 18 year olds have to choose some kind of sport or PE activity, and I think that horse riding is one of the options; those classes would be free of charge for pupils.

I mentioned earlier that the town where I live is quite unusual, and I understand that it isn't feasible to provide this kind of riding centre in every village and town.

 

[palo1]

My preference is for allotments

I think wherever possible room should be made for allotments too. Even rural villages need allotments and they are almost universally popular!

 

[milliepops]

I mentioned earlier that the town where I live is quite unusual, and I understand that it isn't feasible to provide this kind of riding centre in every village and town.

^acknowledging this bit... the centre you have access to does sound really interesting Keith and i think it's a nice concept.

 

[anglo]

As someone has said , there is the issue that it would be in danger of becoming a business liable for rates and tax and there is also the insurance laiability to be considered . Perhaps the councils should undertake the construction of more arenas like Freizland arena Oldham which is owned by the concil and managed by two local clubs along with a bridleways association and a resident association. Funding is through membership and donations from non member users . As far as environemntal impact - at least they are usually well drained to soak up rainwater and screened from view is part of the planning in my experience . Most use tree and shrubs to do that , providing homes for all sorts of species .

 

[Winters100]

I've got to page 6 and now I have to say my piece! I really really hope that people who are lucky enough to have their own arena do occasionally offer it to local friends/acquaintances who may not be so lucky - ditto giving lifts. The responses here are a little bit alarming to those of us really hoping for the occasional act of kindness (to be reciprocated in other ways) to help get us started.

As for the idea of there being 3 or more arenas to hire within half an hour so why the need for community facilities? Perhaps if you live in the rural population centres, not so for those of us in more remote areas. I think community arenas are a fantastic idea. Horse ownership is "elitist" partly because these kinds of facilities don't exist, it doesn't need to be that way. It doesn't cost much more to keep a horse in simple facilities than it does to keep your average large dog - although it's more hard graft of course! Basic safety kit for riding is no different from the kit needed for many other sports that aren't considered elitist. IMO the perceived expense and elitism mostly comes from all the "nice to haves" that have now become an ever growing list of "must haves" for keeping up with the Joneses.

I don't think that the issue is that people will not help out, it is that there is a big difference between helping out people who you like, and who respect the loan of your horse / arena / trailer or whatever, and being obliged to share your private property with others.

I regularly lend out my schoolmistress for example, one child whose pony was lame all summer had her pretty much every day during the holidays, and I often give her to friends who are without horses, but there are plenty of others who I would not offer her to. It would be the same for me if I had my own arena, I would be glad to invite those who I wanted there, but the idea of being forced to hire it out to strangers would be terrible.

 

[Red-1]

A place local to us has a swimming pool in an annex at the back of the house. The owners allow hires, not extortionate, mainly for kids to learn to swim in. They have a visiting trainer to that end, but I think they also have family hire time.

A friend uses this facility for his kids. He says it is smart, only... every time they go, the changing rooms and toilets are left in a real mess. Towels on the floor, toilet paper, pee on the floor, toilets not flushed.

Even he says he has no idea why they keep hiring it out.

That is the way with the public.

My arena would not be suitable as a hire facility. I use it for winter turnout so it has electro rope on the rails. It is turned off while I am riding, but I can only imagine the first time someone falls onto one of the insulators.

I would also need to pay business rates.

To hire it out, I would need to take phone calls, endure cancellations, take money, declare money to the taxman, so do a tax return, be there to unlock the gate, get my own horses in, lock the dogs away, check the hire-ee is OK, wait around while they load back up again (some horses take ages). I presume I would also need to have toilet facilities? The only toilets here are upstairs in the house. Not to mention the poo, the broken poles, and wear and tear on the surface.

It really isn't do-able.

I don't know why they are seen as bad for the countryside? We are on heavy clay, and using an arena as turnout prevents the field becoming a morass.

 

[bonnysmum]

@southerncomfort I don't think I asserted that people who don't freely offer their facilities to others are selfish, did I? I didn't mean to anyway, it's a nuanced thing and hard to get over in writing.

This is the crux of it isn't it?:

A friend uses this facility for his kids. He says it is smart, only... every time they go, the changing rooms and toilets are left in a real mess. Towels on the floor, toilet paper, pee on the floor, toilets not flushed.

Even he says he has no idea why they keep hiring it out.

People ruining it for other people. And while I might bristle a little myself at others assuming I would be that idiotic, clearly many many people are. And in fairness I have my own experience of this outside the horsey world. Did a favour for someone at massive inconvenience to myself & my husband, bent over backwards to help in any way we could, currently being repaid by legal threats and harrassment. So yes, in that very different scenario our own reaction is "never again", therefore I do understand. People can be horrible.

I don't think that the issue is that people will not help out, it is that there is a big difference between helping out people who you like, and who respect the loan of your horse / arena / trailer or whatever, and being obliged to share your private property with others.

I regularly lend out my schoolmistress for example, one child whose pony was lame all summer had her pretty much every day during the holidays, and I often give her to friends who are without horses, but there are plenty of others who I would not offer her to. It would be the same for me if I had my own arena, I would be glad to invite those who I wanted there, but the idea of being forced to hire it out to strangers would be terrible.

I can't say I disagree with any of this to be honest and I also agree that compulsion would be a step much too far.

We've been so fortunate to have a lovely friend who has done so much to teach my daughter about horses and give her an experience she could otherwise only have dreamed of. We reached the point where I didn't want to feel like we were taking advantage so we took the next step & purchased our own horse, so now I'm trying to instill in my daughter the value of sharing that enormous privilege with others who can't. But maybe we'll come a cropper with that too in the future.

 

[Keith_Beef]

He says it is smart, only... every time they go, the changing rooms and toilets are left in a real mess. Towels on the floor, toilet paper, pee on the floor, toilets not flushed.

Even he says he has no idea why they keep hiring it out.

That is the way with the public.

There are a lot of people who think that if something is available for free, then it's only worth what they pay for it, and so they don't appreciate it or value it at all.

This goes for physical objects like parks and flowers in planters in the street; the more obtuse of them seem to get an overwhelming urge to vandalise them.

But it goes for volunteers' time, too: when it costs the users nothing, some of them don't appreciate the work the volunteers are putting in.

It even extends to people on low earnings, or even on reasonably good earnings but paltry compared to their managers... the higher-ups often seem to think that the people on the lower rungs don't deserve any respect, despite the fact that these are the very people who keep their companies running.