Community Access to Private arenas?

[stangs]

Why on earth should public money be spent on something that would benefit so few?

I suppose, though again it would need a lot of volunteer organising and understanding by all parties involved that they have to clean up after themselves, an indoor arena could also be used for dog agility clubs, or a space to hire to let a dog loose. Beach volleyball, general fitness classes on sand.., I’m sure there could be other uses though wouldn’t be as frequent as equestrian use.

 

[Winters100]

someone i knew from yorkshire i think, years ago said they had an arena for public use

we should have arenas for use constructed by the council like parks playgrounds footie pitches, where there is a need to encourage equestrianism and keep horses off the roads, and encourage proper training of horses and ponies,

i am not precious in an elite kind of way, people need somewhere to ride and train for all the shows these days, its only common sense, at the end of the day its just a surface that is very easily constructed and easy to maintain

I am no quite sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but if not are you really saying that the wider public should subsidize our hobby?

 

[Caol Ila]

I see large amounts of land on every working (as opposed to hobby) farm taken up by all the old vehicles and machinery that are now unusable but somehow never disposed of, two/three year old holed bales of forage that can never be used, piles of rubbish like old wrappers, pallets, fences and one, two, three years of used winter bedding,

I'll take criticism from farmers for my one quarter of an acre arena when they clear their land of rubbish and use it!
.

Not just farms. I've looked a few livery yards in my yard hunts which had entire barns and paddocks taken up by piles of junk. One had an entire paddock stuffed with knackered caravans, like the graveyard of Jeremy Clarkson's dreams. I couldn't figure that one out.

 

[palo1]

Indeed. And if you've lived in a tenement building, you've probably experienced a communal garden, which everyone who lives in that buidling can access and use. Some of them are lovingly maintained. Others not so much. That's how I envisioned Palo's vague idea -- one arena accessed by a number of private horse properties.

It wasn't my idea -but a suggestion put forward in a discussion by a local environmental group in response to some level of concern about the number of private arenas going through the planning system. I am not sure how I would feel about that kind of access to someone's private facilities as if it was a condition of planning then I think there would be a degree of resentment about the community access and that isn't particularly constructive. But an arena in the spirit of a communal garden, especially if it was more multi-functional somehow (not sure how easy that is actually) would be a good thing in rural areas I reckon. But hard to make it work well!

 

[canteron]

Palo I see where you are coming from
- and it made me think.

Most pp are given for ‘private use’ so they don’t have to consider access etc.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the norm was ‘limited public access’ of some defined sort so tennis courts , swimming pools, personal gyms etc etc could be shared without onerous pp and insurance.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, I think community access to private facilities will never fly, and you can see how it's hard to have a constructive debate on it even here because people get very wound up by the mere thought.

I'm pretty sure I came across an arena = communal garden-type set-up while I was horse shopping. I tried a horse at a place that looked like a livery yard, but the horse's owner said she owned her three stables and turn-out paddock. There were other stables and fields and turn-out paddocks. Owner said all those were privately owned as well. They had an arena, and I don't quite remember, but the owner said it was kind of a communal space and all the horse owners with access to it helped maintain it.

 

[palo1]

Palo I see where you are coming from
- and it made me think.

Most pp are given for ‘private use’ so they don’t have to consider access etc.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the norm was ‘limited public access’ of some defined sort so tennis courts , swimming pools, personal gyms etc etc could be shared without onerous pp and insurance.

Yes, I think this could work for owners and the people they were prepared to share with and would potentially add to the 'community asset' of wealth. I am not saying that as a way to get rich people to pay for everyone's hobbies or entertainment BUT it could enable people who wanted to, to allow clubs, friends and charity events to use facilities in a limited way and thus provide some community benefit.

 

[canteron]

Palo I see where you are coming from
- and it made me think.

Most pp are given for ‘private use’ so they don’t have to consider access etc.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the norm was ‘limited public access’ of some defined sort so tennis courts , swimming pools, personal gyms etc etc could be shared without onerous pp and insurance.

I meant if the owner wanted to share …. I have all 3 things and if I share I know it’s for free and I will probably have to clear up after them, I guess if I could charge a facility fee without going through the pp route I would be happier to share with strangers.

 

[tristar]

I am no quite sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but if not are you really saying that the wider public should subsidize our hobby?

the money of the country should be used for the benefit of all citizens, whether they swim, play tennis, football, ride or whatever else will bring joy and a sense of achievement sport can give, a riding surface costs very little in the grand scheme of things and is very low maintenance, nearly everyone i have ever met says ì love horses` in the way of just seeing them and being around them brings a light to their lives, so i do not identify with the wider public as a faceless heartless blob grumbling about a bit of sand, a riding surface

i`m not being sarci i just try to think how to better to distribute the assets of a rich country steeped in horsey culture, and where so much money is wasted


sorry mate i just don`t have your mindset, i`m all for investing in society and people`s dreams

 

[Tiddlypom]

Planning permission restrictions aside, anyone allowing the public access to their home arena would need to have robust and expensive insurance in place.

It's not just a case of pocketing the odd fiver bunged your way by the hirer.

There are plenty of commercial establishments around who hire out their facilities. Let those without an aren go to them and pay commercial prices, which is what I did before we put the arena in.

 

[criso]

It wasn't my idea -but a suggestion put forward in a discussion by a local environmental group in response to some level of concern about the number of private arenas going through the planning system. I am not sure how I would feel about that kind of access to someone's private facilities as if it was a condition of planning then I think there would be a degree of resentment about the community access and that isn't particularly constructive. But an arena in the spirit of a communal garden, especially if it was more multi-functional somehow (not sure how easy that is actually) would be a good thing in rural areas I reckon. But hard to make it work well!

Then perhaps it needs to be gently pointed out that given alot of people wouldn't be confident to hack over, might need to use it in the dark or may not be close enough to hack, a side effect could be increased traffic in the way of big noisy probably polluting horseboxes.

 

[cauda equina]

It seems to be a thing for environmental campaigners such as George Monbiot and Chris Packham to try to tell landowners what they 'should' be doing with their land
I wonder if this is a spin-off from that

 

[PapaverFollis]

I could see an arrangement where if you had a cluster of equestrian properties together there could be a shared arena build with a share of it being attached to each property, kind of like commons grazing or peat cutting rights. But you'd have to have some fancy legal wrangling to make it work and like the communal gardens in tenement flats it would require people to maintain it equally too. But there are things like shared maintenance fees for things like gardens, stairwells and rooves elsewhere isn't there? *vague handwaving*

Or you have an owner who rents out a group of yards/houses with a central arena. Can you imagine? Like a livery yard but with people there too! ??? mebby not!

 

[Goldenstar]

You get gated equestrian communities in the US .

 

[HopOnTrot]

Great idea, I'm going to go round and demand access to all of my neighbour's arenas! Does this apply to gallops too? I'd love a go on next doors!

 

[Flyermc]

There are a couple of community arenas that I know of, which seems like a really interesting concept - they're not particularly close to me so I don't use them or know how they are funded, maintained, insured, booked etc, but it's definitely an interesting model.

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/new...ty-arena-scheme-hope-to-inspire-others-716980

https://odrc.co.uk/friezland-arena/

Ive used the friezland area loads of times when i had mu boy, both by just turning-up and again for organised events. Its a really good set-up

 

[teapot]

Also worth saying that commercial arena hire can make or break a yard/centre's finances, especially at the moment. Want horses to remain a part of local communities? Get behind your riding schools sharpish.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Also worth saying that commercial arena hire can make or break a yard/centre's finances, especially at the moment. Want horses to remain a part of local communities? Get behind your riding schools sharpish.

Our local RS wont do arena hire sadly.

However, our local equine college do indoor arena hire when students are not in there.
Tenner each for a 30 min slot, up to 6 persons can book in but it's rare you get more than 2 at a time. Good value for me to drive the 8 miles each way, as its 90 x 30 so can easily work round others if necessary.
In college holidays they might do jumps in there too, £30 for 30 mins includes up to 4 horses. So sharing with friends, it can be a good work out.

It was cheaper for me to get the box nearly 10 years ago. With arena hire and diesel, I'm still quids in rather than spending on an arena at my yard.

 

[milliepops]

I'm a regular arena hire customer normally. Combination of rubbish arenas at livery yards and wanting exposure to new places for horses prepping for competitions.

 

[Mrs B]

From all of this discussion, the word palo1 used which disturbed me was people thinking others were 'entitled' if they kept horses and spent money on doing so.

I agree there are always people who move into a rural location, wave money around and trample over rural sensibilities, ignorance to the fore.

There are also great people who move into rural locations and are treated like shitty incomers for the first 3 generations, however they try to fit in.

But I do not understand why those who have horses as their hobby are seen in some areas as entitled, rich gits when many, many people on here forgo nice clothes, new cars, holidays, 'a life', treats and nights out to pay for that hobby.

So, if one day, they are quids in and save enough to build an arena by NOT having a new car, a holiday, new clothes, going out etc etc ... why should they be considered any different to anyone who who buys a new car and builds a new garage for it. No one bats an eyelid at concreting over an area to do so, but horse keeping is (seemingly) viewed with contempt.

I live in a very rural area and understand that the farming community are very protective of how the land is used BUT I personally know they are also pretty pragmatic people.

No one would dream of insisting that the 'community' should be allowed to park (even paid for) in a private garage for 30 nights of the year ... or sit in your conservatory ... or use your patio before PP was granted.

Smacks of the politics of envy to me.

 

[ycbm]

I could see an arrangement where if you had a cluster of equestrian properties together there could be a shared arena build with a share of it being attached to each property, kind of like commons grazing or peat cutting rights. But you'd have to have some fancy legal wrangling to make it work and like the communal gardens in tenement flats it would require people to maintain it equally too. But there are things like shared maintenance fees for things like gardens, stairwells and rooves elsewhere isn't there? *vague handwaving*

Or you have an owner who rents out a group of yards/houses with a central arena. Can you imagine? Like a livery yard but with people there too! ??? mebby not!

There is a15 year old housing development in Swettenham near me that has exactly this. Each house has a stable allocated and shared use of a field for grazing. The stables look out onto an arena.
.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

I don’t think that community access to private arenas would ever work. But “communal” arenas as CI described could work with the right people.

There’s an arena near me which is part of the “Lincolnshire Rural Activities Centre” which I think is a similar concept. They do hire it regularly for competitions, riding club, clinics etc. The only ponies who live on site are the handful of RDA ponies who also use the arenas. So it’s not like a livery yard or anything. It also gets used for dog agility twice a week, and possibly other things. Definitely the centre itself is a community asset, and the facilities are nicely maintained.

I’ve never hired it as a private individual, so honestly not sure if you can but the website suggests they are for hire…

 

[Winters100]

the money of the country should be used for the benefit of all citizens, whether they swim, play tennis, football, ride or whatever else will bring joy and a sense of achievement sport can give, a riding surface costs very little in the grand scheme of things and is very low maintenance, nearly everyone i have ever met says ì love horses` in the way of just seeing them and being around them brings a light to their lives, so i do not identify with the wider public as a faceless heartless blob grumbling about a bit of sand, a riding surface

i`m not being sarci i just try to think how to better to distribute the assets of a rich country steeped in horsey culture, and where so much money is wasted


sorry mate i just don`t have your mindset, i`m all for investing in society and people`s dreams

But you are not 'investing in society and people's dreams', because access is still limited to the few, who are relatively wealthy compared to many others. To make this really a project for society you would have to be able to also provide horses for those who could not afford them. Also access would be very limited even among horse owners to those who happened to live in the immediate vicinity, or who had access to transport. In general if you can afford to transport your horses you can afford to pay for arena hire or keep them somewhere with facilities. Of course some would be within hacking distance - how many? 30? 50? But many of these would have facilities available at yards and would not use it. A pretty big investment to provide land, build, maintain, insure etc for that tiny number of beneficiaries. It is not cheap to build an arena, and who would police it, make sure that it was cleaned after use? Would it be just for flatwork or you would also suggest that the public funds a set of jumps? What about other disciplines? Should a polo field also be provided? Cross country course? Sure everyone says 'I love horses', but that is not the same as saying that they would want their taxes spent on providing facilities for owners who should be funding themselves. I love rabbits but I don't want to pay for the construction of a nice big run for next door's pets.

If we want to keep horses it is our business to finance our hobby. There are many demands upon the public purse, especially at present, and I cannot think of anything less worthy, or less likely to win public support, than an arena to allow me to exercise my horses while being subsidised by the majority who are less well off than I am.

 

[palo1]

From all of this discussion, the word palo1 used which disturbed me was people thinking others were 'entitled' if they kept horses and spent money on doing so.

I agree there are always people who move into a rural location, wave money around and trample over rural sensibilities, ignorance to the fore.

There are also great people who move into rural locations and are treated like shitty incomers for the first 3 generations, however they try to fit in.

But I do not understand why those who have horses as their hobby are seen in some areas as entitled, rich gits when many, many people on here forgo nice clothes, new cars, holidays, 'a life', treats and nights out to pay for that hobby.

So, if one day, they are quids in and save enough to build an arena by NOT having a new car, a holiday, new clothes, going out etc etc ... why should they be considered any different to anyone who who buys a new car and builds a new garage for it. No one bats an eyelid at concreting over an area to do so, but horse keeping is (seemingly) viewed with contempt.

I live in a very rural area and understand that the farming community are very protective of how the land is used BUT I personally know they are also pretty pragmatic people.

No one would dream of insisting that the 'community' should be allowed to park (even paid for) in a private garage for 30 nights of the year ... or sit in your conservatory ... or use your patio before PP was granted.

Smacks of the politics of envy to me.

Yes, I agree that this can feel like the politics of envy though the group that put forward the idea are not generally equestrians. I genuinely think they just thought there is no need for so many personal arenas and why couldn't they be more 'communal'? I think more communal/community stuff is generally a good thing tbh but the logistics and detail are not necessarily widely understood.

 

[mariew]

It tickles me how people get so wound up by a mere suggestion or thought process but at least it will get Palo some strong feedback!

But as someone who wasn't born here, it goes along a little with the British general mindset- my home is my castle and no-one can tell me what to do (tongue in cheek ish) and 8 foot fences so no-one could possibly peek into your garden.

Saying that if I was fortunate enough to have land and stables and money enough to build an arena I would want to be in control of it fully, and if it was suggested as planning item then it would only be fair if it applied to all other private leisure facilities too, like tennis courts, swimming pools etc.

 

[YorksG]

It would only be possible, if it were to be the case for all privately owned leisure facilities imo. So anyone who had pp for a swimming pool, sauna, hot tub area, tennis court, etc etc

 

[Patterdale]

Yes, I think there is a degree of 'envy' or at least deliberate misunderstanding/lack of tolerance tbh in these views.

Exactly why these idiotic views deserve no airtime or discussion.

‘It’s a stupid idea.
It’s nothing to do with you anyway.
Go boil yer head.’

In times gone by the above^ would have been the immediate (and sensible) answer to these kinds of busybodies. Why they now have to be heard out and everyone take the time to give reasoned responses to nonsense is beyond me.

 

[Cloball]

I don’t think that community access to private arenas would ever work. But “communal” arenas as CI described could work with the right people.

There’s an arena near me which is part of the “Lincolnshire Rural Activities Centre” which I think is a similar concept. They do hire it regularly for competitions, riding club, clinics etc. The only ponies who live on site are the handful of RDA ponies who also use the arenas. So it’s not like a livery yard or anything. It also gets used for dog agility twice a week, and possibly other things. Definitely the centre itself is a community asset, and the facilities are nicely maintained.

I’ve never hired it as a private individual, so honestly not sure if you can but the website suggests they are for hire…

Pretty sure there's a community indoor arena on the isle of Lewis which is used for football as well as riding.
I'm pretty sure I've seen municipal riding arenas in France and Spain.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Yes, I agree that this can feel like the politics of envy though the group that put forward the idea are not generally equestrians. I genuinely think they just thought there is no need for so many personal arenas and why couldn't they be more 'communal'? I think more communal/community stuff is generally a good thing tbh but the logistics and detail are not necessarily widely understood.

I mean, I kind sort of understand why an outsider/non equestrian, or perhaps even non land owner, might have such a thought.

I just can't do it ?

For it to work, you need the right people, and the right management. That isn't easy. Especially with (no offense everyone and myself) horse people. ?

 

[YorksG]

And why stop at having to provide community riding space? Maybe you should securely fence it and allow the dog walkers to use it, perhaps the local 5aside team should have a turn. Would the owner be able to ban people who misused the space?
I have to say I am somewhat gobsmacked that this has ever been suggested.
Why would anyone ever pay for land, if they then had to allow others to use any improvements or alterations they made to it?