Competing a spooky pony - the way forward??

[audreysppency]

A friend/instructor watched my jump a course and said she could see him backing off fractionally when approaching oxers, it's because oxers scare me - I didn't realise it had that much of an effect, I thought I was more confident but even the slightest wobble has an effect so I have to really "fake it til you make it" confidence wise!

i agree with you this is so wise move

 

[ihatework]

I don’t think there are any magic answers, you keep working on both you & him at home, and keep building his confidence away from home at different venues. I’d be inclined to do more arena hires / clear rounds so that you can just take your time and pop round a few times without pressure.

It sounds like there are 2 main differences between the 2 rounds - the second one was indoors and it was part of a RC team thing, he could easily have backed off naturally and then picked up on nerves/tension from you?

It really wasn’t disastrous - it’s just a time, experience and some lessons kind of situation, which is generally the answer with most equine hurdles we come across

 

[Red-1]

I did not think he looked all that different in his basic way of going in either video. In both you are driving on, but not into a contact. This is making him flat.

Before jumping I would have the canter so you can keep the canter without constantly nagging. I think it is because you are not confident that he will go forward and keep forward that makes you throw the contact away. TBH, this could take just a couple of sessions to have him realise he has to carry himself, then you could actually have a contact.

I think the way he is driven onto his forehand is what makes him look uncomfortable. It also means you have little influence on how he negotiates the corners.

In the indoor, it is a bit spookier as an arena and as a course, but TBH many horses would have lost confidence at the first fence. He was driven at it, then you chose an unwise stride and tipped onto his forehand making it hard for him to jump. He did, gallantly, hoist himself over. But, after that you were not on the same page and he lost confidence. I used to ride for a pro, and many of her horses would have had a spooky round, or stopped altogether, if they had been dropped at a fence like that.

I would avoid competition until he is off the leg AND into the hand. As I said, it could take just a couple of sessions, or longer than that. I would ride 'courses' with no jumps until he can do straight lines and curves, into the hand. I would practice quick changes of leg, canter/trot/canter until it is barely a stride of trot. I would insist on straight getaways and being balanced before the turn.

I would not have hit him like that. I thought on some of the fences he was very genuine. That particular fence he was all over before he stopped, and, with a young horse, I would have circled, rebalanced, if he ignored my leg then that would have been the time to use a whip to remind him to keep in front of the leg.

I don't do team comps until my horse is able to manage less than ideal conditions.

 

[AmyMay]

he's lovely though, once you crack the canter you will have great fun!

I agree, he really is lovely. Get your basics right with the help of a good instructor and he’s going to be cracking.

 

[scats]

That's how he/we felt in the warm up, but as soon as he came into the ring he was completely different

How do I get him to feel confident though is my question???? That he goes the same in the ring as in the warm up...

Just keep competing at the same height, and let him get used to the different venues??

Fiona

Perhaps you rode him a bit different in the ring to the warm up, without realising. Nerves or tension creeping in perhaps, or anticipation that he might have a spook at a few of the fillers so you rode a bit more aggressively?

Instilling confidence in a horse or pony is a gradual thing and he needs to have confidence in the pilot on his back first and foremost. If he encounters a spooky fence that worries him, he needs the consistency of a steady contact and steady leg. Could you go out and hire some courses without the pressure of competing/people watching?

 

[Palindrome]

From what I understand he backs off your leg when he finds it a bit scary and so to remediate that you have longer reins and try to motivate him by pushing him on, and then he is on his forehand and looses his rhythm.
I think you could try shortening your stirrups and adding little spurs. When he backs off your leg a few strides before the jump, you stay in your place and tell him to get more bounce (sit back a bit even in 2 points, apply heels and then apply spurs if needed). You could work on the flat doing transitions within the canter to help him figure out what you want jumping, some leg yield in the canter as well to ask him to seat more (on the long side of the arena you can leg yield toward the center line then leg yield back towards the outside).
ETA: it is not strictly "leg yielding" towards the inside as you keep the bend for the canter but you see what I mean.

 

[oldie48]

I don't jump so I hope you don't mind me chipping in but fwiw having spent hours and hours watching daughter have sj lessons with some of the best what I heard constantly is that is is all about the quality of the canter, keep the pony off the forehand and use every opportunity to improve the canter eg corners /change of direction are a chance to re-energise, rebalance and get the back end under them. she had a couple of connies and they both tended to rush and "scuttle" in canter (and were usually behind the leg) and although naturally scopey, they needed a better canter to use themselves properly. She did loads of flatwork, when she jumped at home she did grids and saved courses for when she was with her trainer, so basically did little jumping at home. They didn't need to learn to jump they needed to learn how to canter. Good luck, he's a lovely pony, I love grey connies!

 

[Fiona]

Lots of thing to try.... Thanks

We don't normally do RC team things (as there are regular leagues going on over the winter) this was a one off.

I'm just so gutted that I didn't try harder to hire the venue the week before like I had planned (the owner didn't respond to my initial enquiry and as I was busy I didn't follow it up ) I suppose I thought he was ready to go somewhere new, and now I'm a bit disappointed that he obviously isn't

FIona

 

[Fiona]

oldie48 - all very helpful thank you.....

palindrome - thank you, all very sensible (except he's too sharp for spurs)...

scats - the standing fillers I thought he might look at, he actually jumped ok albeit with his spectacles on, and bizarrely I wasn't that nervous compared to what I have been previously...

Fiona

 

[JFTDWS]

I did not think he looked all that different in his basic way of going in either video. In both you are driving on, but not into a contact. This is making him flat...

I agree with Red's post in entirety. I don't think there is a huge difference in his way of going between the videos - which is why I don't think that any amount of arena hire / treating him like a spooky pony is going to help. What would help, in my opinion, is to take things back to basics and re-establish the rhythm, straightness, forwardness and technique that he's lacking at the moment. I suspect, going by the first video, which you're pleased with, the issues he has are still evident at home - though I could be wrong, and it would be interesting to see how he goes at home.

I think he's very genuine, and very sweet - that gives him the potential to be a really lovely pony, if you can get it right now. He's still only young, after all.

 

[paddi22]

I'm just so gutted that I didn't try harder to hire the venue the week before like I had planned

Good idea. With young horses there's always a bit of 'one step forward, two steps back' at time. You are always trying to grow their confidence bubble, and sometimes you can increase pressure and sometimes you need to ease off the pressure.

Does he feel like he is pulling into the jumps or do you feel like you have to drive him?

With my young ones, I always keep them at a height where I get the feel that they are taking me to the jumps and are 100% confident. I only ever up the heights when I feel like they are bored jumping at the height they are at and are offering up more and nearly showing off that they find it easy. With one mare now, I had to keep her at crosspoles for AGES before I got the feel she was confident to move up. It can feel like they are getting nowhere at times, but when it clicks in wirth them, then they fly up the heights faster as they have a solid confidence base. And you can use the smaller courses to perfect the canter and turns with no pressure.

 

[Michen]

Fiona just another thought, is it possible he's being over cooked in the warm up and then when he goes in he shuts down/gets a bit tired and it all goes a bit on the forehand and flat?

I only ask because you mention he's squeaky and bouncy which is just like Bog, but it's so easy to overcook Boggle because he seems fresh and full of it... actually I have to be super careful not to let him use all of his energy with his antics and then get flat. We never jump him over more than 2 or 3 warm up fences.

 

[Leo Walker]

I'd get him on a bit of a diet and fitness programme before you did anything. At the end of the day he is a smallish pony type so never going to be a flying machine but if you get him really trim and super fit he will find it all easier. As part of that I would do lots of grids, only small but differing questions, and lots of canter poles.

I would also work on the canter. I read something the other day about the time people spend schooling in trot vs canter. Its no wonder lots of people struggle with a good canter when they spend most of their time in trot.

 

[Fiona]

Fiona just another thought, is it possible he's being over cooked in the warm up and then when he goes in he shuts down/gets a bit tired and it all goes a bit on the forehand and flat?

I only ask because you mention he's squeaky and bouncy which is just like Bog, but it's so easy to overcook Boggle because he seems fresh and full of it... actually I have to be super careful not to let him use all of his energy with his antics and then get flat. We never jump him over more than 2 or 3 warm up fences.

Good point, and I've definitely been guilty of it in dressage, but as it was RC and there were only 10 allowed in warm up at one time, our warn up was quite concentrated

It always somewhat bemuses me that everyone was on the left rein warming up, but the first fence in the class was off a tight right turn I only squeezed in a couple of quick right canter circles when the warm up had emptied a little.

LM - good point about fitness too.

Fiona

 

[Michen]

Good point, and I've definitely been guilty of it in dressage, but as it was RC and there were only 10 allowed in warm up at one time, our warn up was quite concentrated

It always somewhat bemuses me that everyone was on the left rein warming up, but the first fence in the class was off a tight right turn I only squeezed in a couple of quick right canter circles when the warm up had emptied a little.

LM - good point about fitness too.

Fiona

Either you are overthinking it or I under think it (more likely), would never occur to me to be bothered about whether I'd done enough warm up on the rein that the first fence was on ha!

 

[SpringArising]

I don't think he looks spooky at all, I think it all just looks a bit discombobulated (mainly on your part, sorry!).

Everyone else has made really good points, but just to keep it short you need to ride him into the contact more rather than letting all his energy fly out the front door. Once you harness that you will probably find he stops chipping in over jumps so much.

I would also say try to make an effort to sit more quietly. He needs to be focusing on the jumps in front of him, not on a rider who is a bit up/down/back/forth etc. (Not meaning to sound harsh, just an easy thing that can be fixed which will probably help a lot).

FWIW, I also don't think he warranted that smack - like Paddi said you could see it coming and you stopped riding to the fence. By all means a well placed tap behind the girth when you feel him backing off is fine.

 

[LegOn]

I do think there has been some great points made on him not really genuinely being spooky which I think you are good with!

I just wanted to add that I have a Connie x ID who is also 7 & I also got him when he was 5! Who is also spooky!!!

I spent alot of time working on his canter, really getting him to work from behind and over his back so when we were jumping, I could slow him down, get lots of implusion but also it gave him more time to see the jumps, focus and figure himself out - so when I pushed for the go, he was already underneath me & waiting & willing. The best part then is when you have them working over their back in the canter, which can be hard for Connies/Draughts cause they were bred to pull carts so can be hard for them to put all that effort from up front to behind - but you can ask for more lengthened canter for when you are competing against the clock, rather than more speed!

He looks like a willingly dude & I think you guys are a good team - just take it back a step, he is young & Connies can mature later aswell so give him plenty of time to develop his canter & he will give it back to you in bucket loads!

 

[Fiona]

I wish I could explain how different he feels to ride when he is happy and going forward.... XC schooling last autumn he jumped happily over 80 and 90cm fences with no hesitation at all, and up until he had a whoopsie at an up step in December I don't thing he had ever stopped more than 2-3 times in the 20 months I had had him.

When we do grids at home he also seems to have quite a long stride for a 13.2, not shuffly at all.

Need to find some good canter exercises, I tend to do spirals or poles on a clockface (at 12, 3, 6 and 9) but I should try some differnet stuff too.

Fiona

 

[oldie48]

I am working hard on Rose's canter and find transitions really helpful in encouraging her to step through and take the weight behind so she comes off her shoulders, trot/canter/trot, walk/trot/walk , walk/canter/walk loads of them in fairly quick succession. It also gets her in front of the leg as she can be a bit lazy.

 

[JFTDWS]

I would also work on the canter. I read something the other day about the time people spend schooling in trot vs canter. Its no wonder lots of people struggle with a good canter when they spend most of their time in trot.

Denny Emerson - he's quite an interesting follow.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10155757297970947&id=109161715946

I use a fair amount of counter canter, and transitions within the canter, when I'm working on improving the canter, but that's partly because it's easy to do out hacking, and I don't have an arena. That said, I think that working on canter quality on hacks is almost easier - if you can get in long straight stretches where you can really focus on feeling that bouncy, engaged, rhythmic canter, then using the corners / bends to focus on balance and keeping the "up" in the canter round them, is useful - you do feel the difference when you go back to school in the arena.

 

[Fiona]

When you say quick succession do you mean every 1/2 a 20m circle, that sort of thing??? Or more often?

Fiona

 

[Fiona]

Sadly I only have short stretches of canter out hacking, so school exercises are more useful....

Fiona

 

[oldie48]

When you say quick succession do you mean every 1/2 a 20m circle, that sort of thing??? Or more often?

Fiona

Whatever feels comfortable really, horse needs to stay soft through the transition and up in the shoulders. We also do lots of transitions within each pace as well. Rose will anticipate if I do it at markers so I deliberately try to mix it up but I try to make sure I ask for a downwards trans from canter before she chucks one at me anyway, but that's a particular Rose problem it may not be an issue with your horse. When I have a lesson i can't react as quickly as my trainer would like but she trained with Carl and he does use a huge number of transitions. It does really focus them though and gets them on your aids. This is what I use for warm ups as well as the first part of a schooling session. Hope this makes sense!

 

[moosea]

Before you read my reply please understand that if I come accross as rude - I don't mean to

Whether I'm riding like an angel or like a chimpanzee in boxing gloves, the fact remains that there is a clear difference between the two videos in how the pony is going.

I also do not see much if any difference.
The pony does not look to be spooky.
I see a pony who is rushed by his rider, not going forwards into a contact and a pony that is run into the bottom of fences and has learnt to put in those horrible, uncomfortable, tiny strides to get over the fences from too close.

He is on his forehand pretty much all the time and looks stiff and unbalanced.

How to fix it?
Stop riding him like a pony and school him on the flat.

Have you tried loose jumping him? Not over massive fences just allowing him to find his stride.
I'd be using placing poles at home to help him jump from the correct place.
If I was your instructor I'd be making you jump with out reins to help you develop more feel for his stride and stop you chasing him to the fences.
You should imho work on getting him more forwards - not fast - and working on suppling exercises as he looks locked through his shoulders, neck and poll. I suspect this comes from an overall lack of balance.
Help him out - support him through the leg and ride him more up and round into a nice soft and even contact. You do tend to kick him on and then drop him to the fence by taking your leg off.

At 7 years old I'd expect him to be a little more advanced than he is. Sit on your backside and ride him in between fences!

On a positive note he's a very nice pony, looks to be honest and willing, with a fair amount of potential. Your job to show him the way!

 

[Fiona]

Ever wish you'd never started something....

Still photos from me from now on.

Fiona

 

[JFTDWS]

Sadly I only have short stretches of canter out hacking, so school exercises are more useful....

Fiona

In which case, there's loads of fun things you can do - clockface poles you mentioned are great for evenness, but there's nothing like a nice line of canter poles and just keep coming through. Single poles about 8 strides apart, working on changing / controlling the number of strides through them is a basic exercise everyone knows about, but it's really useful, and sometimes overlooked because it's so commonplace. Using a small fence to ride over in a sort of straight figure of 8 is nice for picking up leads / counter canter too - you go over the fence straight, but do a half circle after to come back round to the fence (again, approaching straight), in opposite directions on either side of the fence.

Even just setting up courses of poles on the ground and cantering around it keeping the balance - not because you can't jump the fences, but because you can afford to do pole courses a lot more regularly than you can reasonably jump a horse, and because you can really focus on the canter without worrying about the fence - he shouldn't stop or scare himself if you miss, because it's only a pole, but you can still develop the canter and the rhythm and balance for him, and seeing strides for you. That's another one Denny Emerson goes on about I'd love to be able to do more polework - I see crazy strides! - but at this time of year, without an arena, it's not an option, unless I drag them out onto the bridleways!

 

[Bernster]

Ever wish you'd never started something....

Still photos from me from now on.

Fiona

Ah I know. It can be tough. I’ve never dared post videos as I’m way too critical already and feel like a terrible rider. I think you’ve taken the comments really well. They are clearly intended to be constructuve and there’s some stuff here that has been useful for me as I have similar issues. I hope they help you too.

 

[milliepops]

Ah I know. It can be tough. I’ve never dared post videos as I’m way too critical already and feel like a terrible rider. I think you’ve taken the comments really well. They are clearly intended to be constructuve and there’s some stuff here that has been useful for me as I have similar issues. I hope they help you too.

It's always a gutsy thing to do, to share video and ask for help, because as has happened here, sometimes people see a problem that is different to the one you thought you had.
That doesn't mean that people aren't being helpful or are missing the point, but it does give you something else to work on or think about. It might feel like you suddenly have more problems than you thought you had, but as the owner of a horse that also shuts down in some atmospheres and goes into kickalong awkward can't-do-it mode, I know that the problem *really* is that she isn't on my aids, the spooking is just a symptom of that.

Getting mine out and about lots helps to a certain degree, but not because she is seeing more things, it helps because it gives me additional chances to practice insisting on the basics in new places.

I think yours seems similar OP. We are doing a different sport but the essence of it is the same.
At home, I work on the quality and accessibility of reactions to my aids, and adjustability of my horse's paces. those things have to be absolutely bullet proof at home. Then at a show, I need to access the same reactions. If things start to go wrong, she gets tight or starts spooking, it's those reactions that have gone wrong. that was the cause, not the banners or the judges box or whatever. I think your pony is a bit the same?

I would try re reading this thread in a week or so when you feel less battered by it, and take some of the suggestions that might help you to get him really with you all the time. Developing the basics, the balance, the adjustability of the canter, being able to ride any line in a super rhythm and a top quality canter. I think he does those little strides because he only has one canter available at the moment so you and he can't adjust it to meet the fence at the right spot, so developing that ability on the flat/over poles would be ideal.
And then try and do the same out and about. If he backs off or gets spooky, insist on those basics again. When he knows that those reactions are the most important thing in his life in that moment, then the rest should start to fall into place.

 

[JillA]

Sorry haven't had time to read all the replies but have you tried him on magnesium? If it is a Mg deficiency a couple of weeks on magnesium oxide will produce a difference in the "running on adrenaline" sensation

 

[Morgan123]

Personally I'd change tack for a bit and do loads of XC seeing as he likes that more - he'll develop his strength, forwardness and canter, build confidence, and most importantly you'll both enjoy yourselves. Then come back to SJ when the time is right.