Could you condition score this horse for me please? The RSPCA...

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OP you'd do much better taking time to read replies and answering posters' questions rather than just ranting more about RSPCA. It looks rather like a vendetta tbh.
 
Caledonia said:
Do read what I wrote before you quote me - I said - "This horse is either ill, unable to eat properly, or being starved. None of those are acceptable. "

Horses do NOT get that thin for no reason. At no point did I say it should be PTS, however, I did say it was neglect and I see no reason why that's wrong?
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So people that are trying to rehabilitate their emaciated grass sickness horses, with all the vet care in the world, are neglecting their animals?! :confused:

It's not that black and white. Just because a horse may be thin or emaciated does not for one second mean it MUST be neglected.
 
joeanne said:
I think you would be able to show extensive vets bills in that case ( I know I could with Stiggy).
In cases like this, if there is nothing showing so much as a vets visit, there is a problem....a BIG one at that!
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Do you know whether the horse is under a vet? If so, what did that vet advise the owner?
 
Moomin1 said:
So people that are trying to rehabilitate their emaciated grass sickness horses, with all the vet care in the world, are neglecting their animals?! :confused:

It's not that black and white. Just because a horse may be thin or emaciated does not for one second mean it MUST be neglected.
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Yes, because obviously it's got grass sickness given it's been in the field since summer? :rolleyes:

And as I said - it's either ILL or ......
 
According to the OP the horse has been rugged since the summer. IF this was hiding the fact it was in this condition then, I would suggest that if has been ill or is a rescue the rehab treatment isn't working.
 
I actually would like to see a side on pic and one from behind-it's impossible to condition score from the photo shown.
 
Caledonia said:
Do read what I wrote before you quote me - I said - "This horse is either ill, unable to eat properly, or being starved. None of those are acceptable. "

Horses do NOT get that thin for no reason. At no point did I say it should be PTS, however, I did say it was neglect and I see no reason why that's wrong?
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Do read what i wrote before being stroppy with me "not directed at you"
because if the horse is ill and is being treated by a vet and is maybe recovering , how is that neglect ?
this horse "might" belong to someone who does care for it , it might be ill or you might be right it may indeed be being neglected
but one photo and a load of "maybes" is not enough to go on ,the horse may be under the vet
 
Caledonia said:
Yes, because obviously it's got grass sickness given it's been in the field since summer? :rolleyes:

And as I said - it's either ILL or ......
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:rolleyes:

That was an example in case you didn't notice!

There are lots of reasons why horses can become in poor condition, and yes, it is quite common for many of them to be under vet care and instruction, and yes it is quite possible the owner IS actually following vet advice.

It may well be for instance that the horse is extremely elderly and the owner's vet is monitoring closely to suggest when the time is right to pts. Of course, there are always differing opinions on this sort of subject and when to pts, but the fact is, if that owner IS doing everything their vet suggests, then no, it is not neglect. It's a matter of individual morals.

Then again, I would suggest that unless anybody on here can answer with 100% certainty the questions which I posted above, then not one of us can possibly speculate or make wild accusations and jump on the hysteria wagon.
 
SusieT said:
I actually would like to see a side on pic and one from behind-it's impossible to condition score from the photo shown.
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Agreed.

angelish said:
one photo and a load of "maybes" is not enough to go on ,the horse may be under the vet
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One photo of just a bit of a horse!



I can see this appears to be a photo of a very thin horse, but still think there's a lot of conclusion-jumping and very few facts.
 
At Mollie's last yard, there was an old gelding in his 30s whose back probably looked this bad a lot of the time. He pottered about, loved and cared for with constant vet attention, medication, and the best of everything. Even so, he was very thin especially over his back, towards the end.

He was pts last year, a beloved family horse who'd enjoyed a long retirement.

The photo could be of a very neglected horse, I just think we don't know enough to know it is.
 
angelish said:
Do read what i wrote before being stroppy with me "not directed at you"
because if the horse is ill and is being treated by a vet and is maybe recovering , how is that neglect ?
this horse "might" belong to someone who does care for it , it might be ill or you might be right it may indeed be being neglected
but one photo and a load of "maybes" is not enough to go on ,the horse may be under the vet
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Then don't quote me???
 
No wonder the authorities have bother bringing prosecutions if this is acceptable to so many of you - they must be snowed under......
 
Moomin1 said:
Do you know whether the horse is under a vet? If so, what did that vet advise the owner?
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I have no idea Moomin.
What I said was, If you read it, is that IF the horse has been ill then the owner will have vets reports and bills to prove its under treatment.
If the owner does not have these things, then there is a problem, namely the horse is being neglected.
Unless its ill, there is NO reason a horse should look like that unless its not being cared for properly!
 
Caledonia said:
No wonder the authorities have bother bringing prosecutions if this is acceptable to so many of you - they must be snowed under......
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So you actually cannot comprehend that just because a horse may be thin, that it may not actually be a case of neglect?! I fail to see how you cannot understand that concept?

If this horse (and I say if, because, yes, it may well be neglected, I don't know) is under full vet care, and the owner is following that vet's advice, then how is that neglect?

You may pts in that circumstance, but others may not. And I am afraid, that is not down to you, me or the law, provided they are following a fully qualified vet's advice.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=el...&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:112&tx=89&ty=66

If this horse was photo'd from above I would bet my bottom dollar it would look pretty similar to the one in OP's photo. Yet there is a reason for it, it is under treatment, and it is actually at a sanctuary in that condition.
 
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Caledonia said:
No wonder the authorities have bother bringing prosecutions if this is acceptable to so many of you - they must be snowed under......
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this is where i quoted you

what if its recovering from a colic op ?
what if its recently had strangles ?
what if its recovering from another serious condition ?
what if its a rescue case that hasn't had its teeth done but has been recently sorted out ?
what if its a older horse on his way out and the owner is struggling to come to terms with pts ?

there could be any number of reasons why the horse looks like that , people shouldn't just jump to conclusions , and just because you (as in some people not directed at you personally ) think the horse would be better of pts it is not your horse so not your call

although i am not saying that is the case with this individual as non of us know as it is just a photo and this horse could very well be being neglected but there is just not enough info , although i too don't think much of the rspca it mustn't just be assumed that they are ALL idiots as i have met one or two that are actually quite useful

just to clarify as it seems you finding it a little confusing
the top of my post was in direct response to you which is why i quoted you
then i left a space to make it clear (i thought :rolleyes: ) that the rest wasn't directed at you , i even said "as in some people not directed at you" so as not to cause upset

does that make sense now ?


also none of (this IS directed at you by the way just to be clear) us feels this is an acceptable condition for a horse to be in , a few of us believe more info is needed before everyone goes and gets hysterical because there could be a reason other than neglect for a horse to be in this condition
 
joeanne said:
I have no idea Moomin.
What I said was, If you read it, is that IF the horse has been ill then the owner will have vets reports and bills to prove its under treatment.
If the owner does not have these things, then there is a problem, namely the horse is being neglected.
Unless its ill, there is NO reason a horse should look like that unless its not being cared for properly!
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But maybe they've shown the RSPCA the vet's bills and that's why no action is being taken?
 
FionaM12 said:
But maybe they've shown the RSPCA the vet's bills and that's why no action is being taken?
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That could well be the case, but the response of the attending RSPCA officer "it has a belly, its just likely old" is not anywhere NEAR "yes we attended, the horse has been ill and we have verified this with the vet".....nowhere near it....
What it says to me, is the attending officer did not have a decent grounding in equine body scoring, or indeed any kind of equine knowledge, because anyone who thinks that is acceptable without seeking reason for it is frankly barking mad!
 
Moomin1 said:
So you actually cannot comprehend that just because a horse may be thin, that it may not actually be a case of neglect?! I fail to see how you cannot understand that concept?

If this horse (and I say if, because, yes, it may well be neglected, I don't know) is under full vet care, and the owner is following that vet's advice, then how is that neglect?

You may pts in that circumstance, but others may not. And I am afraid, that is not down to you, me or the law, provided they are following a fully qualified vet's advice.
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Dearie me - where did I mention PTS?

I am fully aware of the circumstances that lead to horses being that thin - do read my initial post. I'm thoroughly horrified that you think that lack of condition is acceptable, unless it's under vet treatment, but with the best will in the world, it's not looking very like that, now is it? :rolleyes:
 
angelish said:
this is where i quoted you

what if its recovering from a colic op ?
what if its recently had strangles ?
what if its recovering from another serious condition ?
what if its a rescue case that hasn't had its teeth done but has been recently sorted out ?
what if its a older horse on his way out and the owner is struggling to come to terms with pts ?

there could be any number of reasons why the horse looks like that , people shouldn't just jump to conclusions , and just because you (as in some people not directed at you personally ) think the horse would be better of pts it is not your horse so not your call

although i am not saying that is the case with this individual as non of us know as it is just a photo and this horse could very well be being neglected but there is just not enough info , although i too don't think much of the rspca it mustn't just be assumed that they are ALL idiots as i have met one or two that are actually quite useful

just to clarify as it seems you finding it a little confusing
the top of my post was in direct response to you which is why i quoted you
then i left a space to make it clear (i thought :rolleyes: ) that the rest wasn't directed at you , i even said "as in some people not directed at you" so as not to cause upset

does that make sense now ?


also none of (this IS directed at you by the way just to be clear) us feels this is an acceptable condition for a horse to be in , a few of us believe more info is needed before everyone goes and gets hysterical because there could be a reason other than neglect for a horse to be in this condition
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I'm hardly hysterical, I'll leave that to you writing novels about why it has to have a perfectly valid reason to be that thin. I stand by my initial post - horses are NEVER that thin without reason .... it's a welfare case.

Playing devil's advocate is neither smart not funny when an animal is that poor.
 
Moomin1 said:
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If this horse was photo'd from above I would bet my bottom dollar it would look pretty similar to the one in OP's photo. Yet there is a reason for it, it is under treatment, and it is actually at a sanctuary in that condition.
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One would assume the horse responded to the treatment?

The one the OP has posted is pictured in a muddy field and appears to have had concerns since the summer! Also the horse the OP posted is in poorer condition as its bones are more visible and it has a full coat!
 
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joeanne said:
That could well be the case, but the response of the attending RSPCA officer "it has a belly, its just likely old" is not anywhere NEAR "yes we attended, the horse has been ill and we have verified this with the vet".....nowhere near it....
What it says to me, is the attending officer did not have a decent grounding in equine body scoring, or indeed any kind of equine knowledge, because anyone who thinks that is acceptable without seeking reason for it is frankly barking mad!
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The op hasn't spoken to the RSPCA. It's hearsay.

Look, it could be a dreadful welfare case. I'm just saying we don't have enough evidence to know.
 
Caledonia said:
I'm hardly hysterical, I'll leave that to you writing novels about why it has to have a perfectly valid reason to be that thin. I stand by my initial post - horses are NEVER that thin without reason .... it's a welfare case.

Playing devil's advocate is neither smart not funny when an animal is that poor.
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i am not trying to be smart nor funny
it might well be a welfare case and more than likely will be in this case but there is a chance that it might not be , just because a horse is thin doesn't mean it is a welfare case it could be under a vets care
it needs investigated for sure to find out if the owners are doing all they can for the horse but i can only imagine what i'd feel like if i came on a popular horse forum to find a photo of my horse where its rugs had been removed without my permision and people where jumping to conclusions saying its a welfare case when in fact the horse could be ill

there is a possibility that this horse is loved and cared for
 
I have no idea why some people think this is not a welfare case! :(
There is no way that this is acceptable.
A horse this thin since the summer??
Horrible.
 
Who's field isn't muddy this year?
I know two ponies well into their 30's who probably look like this if you took a pic from that angle.
They are both owned by different responsible caring owners who would be ablsolutely mortified if someone had got into their field and took their ponies rug off and took pictures and posted them on a national forum and was discussing them with all and sundry.
This summer has been very wet and they have had their rugs on from time to time as it has been cold and windy.
Has the OP attempted to find the owner and talk to them?
Of course this pony could be being neglected, but I would try to find the owner first before posting their pictures on here.
I am not condoning anyone neglecting their ponies, I have reported to WHW a few times when I have been concerned but I wouldn't dare to get into the field and take a rug off a pony and take pictures!!:( Leave that up to WHW or RSPCA or whoever, but I think you have overstepped the mark!
 
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I may be in the minority here, but if I had a "cared for" oldie who couldn't get through winter without becoming emaciated, I hope I would have had the foresight to save it from misery and pts before it got to this stage.
Unnaceptable.
 
FionaM12 said:
The op hasn't spoken to the RSPCA. It's hearsay.

Look, it could be a dreadful welfare case. I'm just saying we don't have enough evidence to know.
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Oh sorry, I forgot to mention that it was my mum's friend's daughter's friend's sister's auntie's bank manager's wife was the one that spotted this horse and left it to her sister's husband's... You get my drift. :rolleyes:

A friend is the one who discovered what poor condition this horse is in. They are not members of this forum. This is not gossip/rumours, this is real life. A real horse who is in an awful state.

Hay has been put in the field tonight after the RSPCA visit. I meant to mention earlier that it was of the opinion of the RSPCA inspector that the horse was not in need of veterinary attention also.

I am frankly quite shocked, FionaM12, by your vendetta against me when this is NOT a court room and I am not obligated to give you any more details than I wish. As for my profile showing I was online and reading this thread, I have no idea why that appeared to be so, but I can assure you that I was sat in a cinema watching a film. It saddens me to think that you are hardened to the image of an emaciated horse and would condone emaciation if it were for a medical reason. I invite you to read this information on emaciation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emaciation#Characteristics so that you can be further educated about the psychological and physiological effects of emaciation. It is NOT just an outward appearance.
 
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