Crossing Poodles, why?

[windswoo]

I love standard poodles - they are just brilliant dogs to have if you have an active outdoor life - I've known a few over the years, but never had the chance to have one myself.
Most of the time my dogs have been given to me or found, so haven't had chance to pick.
Would definitely have a "pure" poodle than one of the mixes

 

[paddy555]

this was in an earlier Horse & Hound I am catching up on.
We used to call these mongrels, possibly expensive mongrels advertised at £1500 each.

Newfygoldoodle puppies.

One parent is described as a 'rare Newfypoo" . Not quite sure why you would cross a Newfy (lovely breed) with an equally lovely poodle. The logic of how that physically works escapes me

The other parent is goldendoodle.

The pups in the pic are either black or golden and look exactly like golden retrievers.

If you want a golden retriever just get a golden retriever.

 

[MurphysMinder]

this was in an earlier Horse & Hound I am catching up on.
We used to call these mongrels, possibly expensive mongrels advertised at £1500 each.

Newfygoldoodle puppies.

One parent is described as a 'rare Newfypoo" . Not quite sure why you would cross a Newfy (lovely breed) with an equally lovely poodle. The logic of how that physically works escapes me

The other parent is goldendoodle.

The pups in the pic are either black or golden and look exactly like golden retrievers.

If you want a golden retriever just get a golden retriever.

And I'd hazard a guess that neither of the parents had health tests !

 

[MereChristmas]

..

 

[DressageCob]

My main problem with the doodle thing is that they are breeding poor quality stock. People with well bred, health tested, proven dogs don't generally use them to create mixed breed dogs. The pups you see advertised tend to be "Bella wanted to have a baby so we bred her" or "rare stbernadoodle x newfipoos, £5,000". Either ignorant pet owners or greeders.

The people with these mutts online are often annoying too. They post a photo of their cockerpoo sleeping on its back and say this is such a cockerpoo thing. Then 20 other people chime in saying "OMG my Teddy does this too. Must be a cockerpoo thing". No, it's a dog thing. And so many don't seem to realise that the curly ones need coat maintenance. You mix the soft coat of a cocker and the curl of a poodle you're bound to be prone to matting. That means proper grooming at least daily, not just a run over with a slicker brush. But no, they don't bother, and then they cry about it when the groomer has to shave them down to skin because it's pelted like a shag rug. Unfortunately, they appear to attract ignorant owners. Not that all the people who buy these mixes are ignorant, just that they get more than their fair share of them.

I genuinely don't know why you'd buy something with mediocre parentage and no health testing, with no coat or personality predictability or standard when you can spend less and get a pedigree from a heritage breed or a well bred dog of any breed. If it's the look you're after you can achieve that by having a poodle and not shaving its face. Or branch out to another breed if your lifestyle and experience suits the breed (at least you'll know what sort of temperament to expect!), like a Lagotto, PWD, SWD.

 

[Morwenna]

I met someone at a dog training thing the other week who has a ‘second generation cockerpoo’ and was saying how weird it was that some of the litter ‘just looked like spaniels’.

 

[paddy555]

r "rare stbernadoodle x newfipoos, £5,000".

please tell me you are making that up?? if not these bliddy poodles get everywhere.

 

[Sealine]

My main problem with the doodle thing is that they are breeding poor quality stock. People with well bred, health tested, proven dogs don't generally use them to create mixed breed dogs. The pups you see advertised tend to be "Bella wanted to have a baby so we bred her" or "rare stbernadoodle x newfipoos, £5,000". Either ignorant pet owners or greeders.

I'm no dog expert but I did have this argument with a friend a few years ago. I said that I don't understand why everyone is paying huge amounts of money for a mongrel but she argued you are getting the best of both breeds. My point was that if they were great examples of their breed they wouldn't be crossing them with another breed. She now has a labradoodle (moults like crazy) and earlier this year added a cockapoo puppy that she has had to work very hard with to overcome it's anxiety. I've met quite a few cockapoos and alot of them seem nervous and/or completely nuts and out of control but I guess that could just be down to the owners. Having said all that I met a cavapoo recently that is very sweet little thing and a great family dog but the numerous cavalier health issues would put me off.

Some of these blow my mind! https://www.loveyourdog.com/poodle-mixes/

Corgipoo or huskydoodle anyone?

 

[Prancerpoos]

Or get the low maintenance curly coated retriever

 

[CorvusCorax]

I've said it before but all the poodle crosses around here have awful temperaments. It's hardly an ideal family pet if it has a meltdowns at relatively mild stimuli. Again adding the caveat that they're probably from the same place/related, which is a minefield in itself as pet/accidental breedings could be happening between very close relations in the community and no one knows any better as there's no recorded heritage.

 

[Redders]

Met a puppy today, asked if labradoodle. Nope, apparently a Saint Doodle. Saint Bernard with poodle

 

[honetpot]

I've said it before but all the poodle crosses around here have awful temperaments. It's hardly an ideal family pet if it has a meltdowns at relatively mild stimuli. Again adding the caveat that they're probably from the same place/related, which is a minefield in itself as pet/accidental breedings could be happening between very close relations in the community and no one knows any better as there's no recorded heritage.

But is it environment and training. Mine is a farm dog, the worst thing he does is he loves dirty water in ditches, and then he dries off on grass or straw, and then wants to finish off his hair do on the carpet. He doesn't bite, chew or bark excessively, and is not aggressive.

 

[CorvusCorax]

But is it environment and training. Mine is a farm dog, the worst thing he does is he loves dirty water in ditches, and then he dries off on grass or straw, and then wants to finish off his hair do on the carpet. He doesn't bite, chew or bark excessively, and is not aggressive.

IME it's nearly always genetics which dictate things like reaction to stimuli and if/how they recover from stress. Yours is probably from stock with good nerve to begin with.

 

[Esmae]

Ive had three standard poodles since 2000…
I groom them myself and before I got my first ,I recalled the poodle guru Eileen Geesons words….…
” be prepared to spend the cost of your pup on grooming equipment for this breed.
It‘s true!
View attachment 116993View attachment 116994
The grooming is demanding..daily brush and comb through..every two to three weeks ,a bath and clip / scissor.( 3 hours)
The advantages..
The dog does not lose coat on your furnishings,clothes..it does not have odor,I am allergic to cats ,long coated dogs,etc..the poodle coat has been not provocative of my allergies.
Poodles are hyper Intelligent.Symbiotic with their owners.Generally a pacific breed.that will train fast. but need gentle methods..no force or loud efforts.

I don’t believe that the breeding of poodle crosses is justified,both price wise and in the inconsistent results. The F1 are never homogenous ie Their coats and temperaments will vary…so what is the point?
If you want a type go for one or the other. The very creator of the x poo crosses says he lived to wish he had never created the poo.cross concept , as it was used for profit and did not fulfill original concept of a breed that would express the best of both.

I absolutely love your poodles. I had 2 as a child. the small ones. Would have had one now except for the grooming. Yours look fabulous.

 

[honetpot]

IME it's nearly always genetics which dictate things like reaction to stimuli and if/how they recover from stress. Yours is probably from stock with good nerve to begin with.

Bought from travellers.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Bought from travellers.

Doesn't mean the parents weren't calm dogs. I don't imagine a highly strung type would survive in a busy, transient, noisy environment, natural selection, eh?

 

[Clodagh]

I always thought traveller owned horses and dogs have been extreme socialised!
And before the get rich quick world their animals were always sound too, no passengers there.

 

[honetpot]

Doesn't mean the parents weren't calm dogs. I don't imagine a highly strung type would survive in a busy, transient, noisy environment, natural selection, eh?

Oh no, purpose bred, we have large settled traveller communities in Cambridgeshire, because land in the past was cheap, and nobody wanted it.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Oh no, purpose bred, we have large settled traveller communities in Cambridgeshire, because land in the past was cheap, and nobody wanted it.

OK, so breaking it down....the people who bred your dog would have no use or want for flightly, highly strung, anxious, reactive breeding animals, given their very busy, noisy, active lifestyles. They just wouldn't survive. Those which are being churned out into pet homes by the settled community in my locality, don't really seem to care about those things.

I've seen young green dogs walk out of breeding compounds on the continent that have done nothing and been nowhere, and become certified police dogs on busy streets within a matter of months, the way they cope with new things isn't environment or training, it's genetics, the difference between 'oh, I haven't seen that thing before, oh well, not to worry' as compared to 'A THING THAT WASN'T THERE BEFORE IS THERE NOW, AND IT'S MAKING NOISE, ARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!'

 

[paddy555]

OK, so breaking it down....the people who bred your dog would have no use or want for flightly, highly strung, anxious, reactive breeding animals, given their very busy, noisy, active lifestyles. They just wouldn't survive. Those which are being churned out into pet homes by the settled community in my locality, don't really seem to care about those things.

I've seen young green dogs walk out of breeding compounds on the continent that have done nothing and been nowhere, and become certified police dogs on busy streets within a matter of months, the way they cope with new things isn't environment or training, it's genetics, the difference between 'oh, I haven't seen that thing before, oh well, not to worry' as compared to 'A THING THAT WASN'T THERE BEFORE IS THERE NOW, AND IT'S MAKING NOISE, ARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!'

and that's what we have done for dogs and also for horses over the last 60 odd years.

When I was a child dogs were safe, my grandparents had a bull dog and fox terrier. There are pics of me aged 2 with them, no one bothered I would get hurt as there was no reason to. When I got my own dog aged 3 no one bothered and no one trained her. Dogs had far more placid temperaments. I would take our barely trained dog for walks when I was about 5 on my own. No other dogs attacked me, other dogs and their owners walked quietly past. They weren't dog trainers or training classes for the majority. We let the dog out of the car and she stayed close. No other dogs came to attack or even bother us. If they had she wouldn't have done anything simply wagged her tail.
When I was 20 I was marching around training class rings along with 20 other young GSD's. Everyone was at heel, dogs weren't running up to each other, they did as they were told and it was no great effort. We were all beginners, the dogs behaved this way, it was not our training.

Now we have endless posts, kids being eaten by dogs, people scared to take their dog for a walk because of other dogs, loose dogs running amok, anxious dogs, reactive dogs. I remember a trainer telling me dogs from a certain breeder took a lot of training and it took years. (GSD's) No, my first GSD travelled the length of the country by train when she was 7 months old and her excellent behaviour certainly wasn't due to my training.

I had the same thing with arab horses. Two came from the same stallion, very similar breeding. Very old established breeder. They were naturally pretty bombproof. Sane, reliable even as a stallion. Another from similar old bloodlines, same calmness. Then another from a different breeder, totally neurotic. Bred for everything other than temperament.

What on earth is going on?

 

[cobgoblin]

Accidental poodle crosses are lovely. I've had three , all from rescues. No idea what they were crossed with, probably heinze 57s.
I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole now it's become a money spinner.

 

[CorvusCorax]

and that's what we have done for dogs and also for horses over the last 60 odd years.

When I was a child dogs were safe, my grandparents had a bull dog and fox terrier. There are pics of me aged 2 with them, no one bothered I would get hurt as there was no reason to. When I got my own dog aged 3 no one bothered and no one trained her. Dogs had far more placid temperaments. I would take our barely trained dog for walks when I was about 5 on my own. No other dogs attacked me, other dogs and their owners walked quietly past. They weren't dog trainers or training classes for the majority. We let the dog out of the car and she stayed close. No other dogs came to attack or even bother us. If they had she wouldn't have done anything simply wagged her tail.
When I was 20 I was marching around training class rings along with 20 other young GSD's. Everyone was at heel, dogs weren't running up to each other, they did as they were told and it was no great effort. We were all beginners, the dogs behaved this way, it was not our training.

Now we have endless posts, kids being eaten by dogs, people scared to take their dog for a walk because of other dogs, loose dogs running amok, anxious dogs, reactive dogs. I remember a trainer telling me dogs from a certain breeder took a lot of training and it took years. (GSD's) No, my first GSD travelled the length of the country by train when she was 7 months old and her excellent behaviour certainly wasn't due to my training.

I had the same thing with arab horses. Two came from the same stallion, very similar breeding. Very old established breeder. They were naturally pretty bombproof. Sane, reliable even as a stallion. Another from similar old bloodlines, same calmness. Then another from a different breeder, totally neurotic. Bred for everything other than temperament.

What on earth is going on?

It's not rocket science, people are just breeding from unsuitable animals for money.

I broadly agree with what you say, but marching up and down with a dog beside your leg isn't 'training', it's drilling, I remember those types of classes and the dogs looked miserable and bored.
Sure they were doing what they were told but their ears and tails were down.
There's a happy medium between an out of control dog and a dog that's too scared or instutionalised to express itself.
Good training does take years IMO and doesn't just stop when the dog reaches a certain age.
There is an argument though, that it's gone the other way, in that people have been taught that any negative or consequence for the dog is cruel, hence so many dogs out of control. I think there's a bit of that for sure, but it's mostly poor breeding and over-availability of breeds/types.

ETA: I don't believe these reactive, neurotic dogs need 'consequence' training, that's like pouring fuel on the fire, they are management cases most of the time.

 

[paddy555]

It's not rocket science, people are just breeding from unsuitable animals for money.

I broadly agree with what you say, but marching up and down with a dog beside your leg isn't 'training', it's drilling, I remember those types of classes and the dogs looked miserable and bored.
Sure they were doing what they were told but their ears and tails were down.
There's a happy medium between an out of control dog and a dog that's too scared or instutionalised to express itself.
Good training does take years IMO and doesn't just stop when the dog reaches a certain age.
There is an argument though, that it's gone the other way, in that people have been taught that any negative or consequence for the dog is cruel, hence so many dogs out of control. I think there's a bit of that for sure, but it's mostly poor breeding and over-availability of breeds/types.

ETA: I don't believe these reactive, neurotic dogs need 'consequence' training, that's like pouring fuel on the fire, they are management cases most of the time.

once we had drilled up and down we "drilled" back to the car. . We were totally under control. We didn't upset any passers by or any other dogs. That is all I want people to do. Don't care if they study advanced training but simply keep their dog to heel not disrupting other people and dogs. Discipline. When it's playtime that is a different matter.

not only do we have people afraid to discipline their dogs (or dare I say it their kids) but we then have dogs that are possibly not as mentally stable and sound as well.

ETA sorry to poodle owners this is on the poodle thread. I have found them to be some of the much better behaved dogs, along with huskies.

 

[CorvusCorax]

once we had drilled up and down we "drilled" back to the car. . We were totally under control. We didn't upset any passers by or any other dogs. That is all I want people to do. Don't care if they study advanced training but simply keep their dog to heel not disrupting other people and dogs. Discipline. When it's playtime that is a different matter.

not only do we have people afraid to discipline their dogs (or dare I say it their kids) but we then have dogs that are possibly not as mentally stable and sound as well.

Like I say, I broadly agree, but it is possible to have a dog under control without cowing/boring it into submission, that doesn't look miserable and without studying advanced training, I personally like my dogs to enjoy/look forward to their work, but people gotta do what they gotta do I suppose.

 

[paddy555]

Like I say, I broadly agree, but it is possible to have a dog under control without cowing/boring it into submission, that doesn't look miserable and without studying advanced training, I personally like my dogs to enjoy/look forward to their work, but people gotta do what they gotta do I suppose.

well mine wasn't either cowed or bored. I do seem to remember "praise your dog" being the most frequent instruction. She seemed pretty happy BUT she behaved when out in public and that is what is lacking now with many.

 

[CorvusCorax]

well mine wasn't either cowed or bored. I do seem to remember "praise your dog" being the most frequent instruction. She seemed pretty happy BUT she behaved when out in public and that is what is lacking now with many.

I'm sure she did, I just think that training has moved on, that GSDs (and cockspoos!) are a very clever breed and can do more with their very capable brains than march up and down for a pat on the head

 

[MyBoyChe]

Ive just bought another cockerpoo pup, I have a year old boy and have just bought an unrelated pup. Ive always been a gun dog person, purely as pets, never actually trained one to work but as Im getting older wanted something a bit smaller than my ESS. Much as I hate the concept and the price tag I had to admit that the smaller cockerpoo ticked all my boxes. That said, I have a friend who has just paid more for a pure bred Goldie than either of mine cost me. I have no intention of breeding, all parents of both pups were fit and healthy, I know that doesnt guarantee a pup will be but the same can be said for pure breeds, taking genetic traits out of the equation any dog can get sick! My 1 year old is a delight, happy, cheerful, a very sociable and busy little dog, learns quickly but loves a cuddle. The pup, just 10 weeks old is a feisty little thing, loves a rough and tumble with her brother but appears equally happy, cheerful and good natured. So far I would say both of mine are showing the best traits of both breeds but Im fully aware they could also have the worst and also well aware that Ive got 1st crosses of 2 working and active breeds so Im not expecting to never have to train or walk them. I am however, very thankful that my groomer is excellent and only lives around the corner so they will both be going monthly, H already does so and little sis will be visiting next week with him just to say hello for 5 minutes. To answer the original question, why not a cocker or a poodle, Im not sure really, I think the overall look of the pups was what swayed it, I do like a cute fluffy dog but with a bit of character and cheekiness, they do tick that box big time

 

[Moobli]

If parents are health tested with great temperaments then I have absolutely no issue with cockerpoo, labradoodle, cavapoo etc etc crosses. The ones I’ve met seem happy, friendly, busy little dogs that make great family dogs for the right people. Sadly health testing doesn’t seem to be commonplace and too many are churned out simply to make money which is never a great combination.

 

[scats]

Ive just bought another cockerpoo pup, I have a year old boy and have just bought an unrelated pup. Ive always been a gun dog person, purely as pets, never actually trained one to work but as Im getting older wanted something a bit smaller than my ESS. Much as I hate the concept and the price tag I had to admit that the smaller cockerpoo ticked all my boxes. That said, I have a friend who has just paid more for a pure bred Goldie than either of mine cost me. I have no intention of breeding, all parents of both pups were fit and healthy, I know that doesnt guarantee a pup will be but the same can be said for pure breeds, taking genetic traits out of the equation any dog can get sick! My 1 year old is a delight, happy, cheerful, a very sociable and busy little dog, learns quickly but loves a cuddle. The pup, just 10 weeks old is a feisty little thing, loves a rough and tumble with her brother but appears equally happy, cheerful and good natured. So far I would say both of mine are showing the best traits of both breeds but Im fully aware they could also have the worst and also well aware that Ive got 1st crosses of 2 working and active breeds so Im not expecting to never have to train or walk them. I am however, very thankful that my groomer is excellent and only lives around the corner so they will both be going monthly, H already does so and little sis will be visiting next week with him just to say hello for 5 minutes. To answer the original question, why not a cocker or a poodle, Im not sure really, I think the overall look of the pups was what swayed it, I do like a cute fluffy dog but with a bit of character and cheekiness, they do tick that box big time

Pictures needed!
I adore cockapoos, despite being a groomer and seeing a lot come in matted. They really are all so different. I do a cockapoo who is hands down my favourite dog that I groom. He is the most gentle, mild mannered chap and his mum works in a special school and he goes to work with her and spends all day with the children.
Equally I do another cockapoo (who looks very different to your average cockapoo) who has had specialist help with a behaviourist for his anxiety.
I groom a lot of them and I’d say 90% of them are uncomplicated and easy. The trait I see mostly from them is nervousness and anxiety, but the trait I see the least from them compared to other breeds is biting and snapping. In fact, not one cockapoo on my books has ever bitten or snapped at me, even the nervous ones. They just tend to ‘shrink’ on the table.

 

[skinnydipper]

I’ve met some lovely poos and doodles. Unlikely to be from health tested parents but temperamentally sound.

It isn’t just genetics which have an effect on a dog's temperament and behaviour.

Dam's hormones during pregnancy (cortisol)
Early experience
Environment
Gut microbiome, gut brain axis
Type of exercise
Sleep quality and quantity
Single event learning
Medical conditions
Pain

IMHO it is the owner’s role to be a “safe space” and to support their dog in times of stress – not cause it. Dogs deserve to feel safe.