Dealings with Elite Equine and Meadow stables in Essex

[fatpiggy]

Wow - 5 brand new first time posters on this in 24hrs, amazing coincidence or ....?

Everyone was a first time poster once - including you. For all you know they have been lurking and just reading for the last 5 years. They obviously think that on this subject they have something to contribute and with it being a public forum...

 

[Jach]

Yes, because people are trying to 'out' these vile people...Sammarie brought this thread to the attention of others by begging for good reviews lol. It has also been highlighted on a page set up solely for the purpose of highlighting their 'dodgy dealing' and supporting people who have been left heartbroken once they have bought from them. So there will be first time posters, so no coincidence or anything suspicious!

 

[The wife]

Hello new people Welcome to the H&H Forum. Your lives will never be the same again.

Given Shooting Star the benefit mind, new posters usually come out of the woodwork and join up just to give raving positive reviews of a company that has been heavily slated on here. These posters 9/10 never post again and are rightly so treated with disdain or labelled as 'fake profiles'. The opposite has actually happened here and no new posters have actually had anything nice to say... Funny that.

 

[indiat]

:O How do people like this stay in business?!

 

[9tails]

I wouldn't touch either place with somebody else's bargepole. I've read a number of accounts about purchasers being threatened when trying to return the unsuitable horse they've bought. I'm surprised they're still going TBH, it seems the horseworld needs to be a lot tighter knit than it already is to get word out.

 

[ester]

:O How do people like this stay in business?!

I'm never sure, I have little sympathy in this day and age when there are so many sources of information and dodgy dealer facebook groups for people to do their research in spite of name changes etc.

 

[Paint Me Proud]

I'm never sure, I have little sympathy in this day and age when there are so many sources of information and dodgy dealer facebook groups for people to do their research in spite of name changes etc.

Tend to agree with you here. The first thing I ever do when looking at horses is google the phone number, the sellers name and then the horses details (eg 14.2 11 years chestnut mare Dolly) as it's amazing what comes up and only a small amount of digging often uncovers a truer picture.

 

[Aquila]

I'm never sure, I have little sympathy in this day and age when there are so many sources of information and dodgy dealer facebook groups for people to do their research in spite of name changes etc.

I completely agree, although 2 years ago when I purchased from them there was little information available on them. They weren't so well known and certainly not so notorious. Sammarie had little involvement, it was just Jay. Since then they have gone from bad to worse, telling more and more outrageous lies and sourcing their horses from less and less salubrious places. Also, in the past people were afraid to speak out due to the threats they received, including a few house visits from these two on occasion. But now as word is spread and folk feel safety in numbers they are coming forward with their stories. There is now no excuse to get caught out by these villains. The net is now a hive of information about them. Do your research. A quick type into Google is all it takes.

 

[bussell]

Sorry another newbie. However, in this case I feel that it's an indictment of how strongly people feel about these dealers, that they take the time to join a forum and post. I haven't had the misfortune to come across these clowns personally, but have seen their adverts over last couple of years, which show a succession of horses, that are all '100% bombproof' (no such thing) and suitable for novice riders. They deliberately target a group of people who they hope won't notice the fact that the horses are undernourished and lame for the most part. To illustrate this they get idiots to stand up on them, wave brollies around, hack on the most unsuitable roads and make the poor animals look even more undignified than they do already. To anyone with an iota of experience it's ridiculous but they aren't targeting them, they want first time horse owners. The buyers then get these poor animals home, rehydrate them, feed them, show them love and respect, and that's when the problems begin. It's a miracle that someone hasn't been killed, but it will only be a matter of time if they are allowed to continue to deal, especially the horses that are returned as unsuitable, are immediately put back up for sale again as 100% safe, albeit with a change of name in some cases.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I called about a horse years ago. From the ad I really liked it but took an instant dislike to the guy on the phone.
Looks like I got a lucky escape!

 

[Chuffy99]

Chatting to a non horsey friend on Sunday who was telling me about a problem horse his daughter in law had bought and how now it was in lovely condition they can't do anything with it. Let me guess I say did it come from Wickford? And was it checked by someone experienced and then vetted. They fell in love and felt sorry for it was the reply , my reply was it was plonkers like them that kept MS in business, no excuse with the Internet not to do your homework

 

[Hettyhannah]

I am another newbie to the forums I am afraid, I usually just read the discusssions but I do feel the need to comment on this one. I went to meadow stables looking for a horse to purchase (looking for cheap, safe cobby types). I am not a novice owner/rider and have been around horses all my life. I didn't 'believe' the adverts and they did often look poor (I had only seen the website not the fb posts) but thought it was worth a look, might be something useful there. We looked at several horse (they obviously had loads that met the very broad brief!) and saw 4 ridden mostly because I felt too rude to leave straight away. One they didn't ride had one pastern and fetlock twice the size of the other and another had such large cracks up its feet it looked cloven. Of the 4 ridden 3 were lame and the 4th very green and totally unsuitable. Of the 3 lame ones only one looked like it could be what had been described, of the other 2 one was again very green seeming and the last who was supposed to have been a hunter in Ireland looked as if it was used to wearing a standing martingale and despite being very quiet gave the impression that it would bolt or rear. I did not look into the stables to actually see if there was water there but they did make a point of giving each horse a feed as it went back into the stable from being ridden. We made a quick exit and tried very hard not to touch anything as several had snotty noses - I got changed before going to my own horses. I looked into them more thoroughly after the visit and found the fb page etc. I would not buy off of them, they must have a good horse now and then as a matter of odds, but these horses are not at all as described so are never given the chance to actually find a suitable home due to the market they are aimed at.

 

[splashgirl45]

after reading these posts i wonder why they havent been reported to whw or bhs welfare as the horses sound like they are in poor condition and some are being ridden while lame...i am sure if a private person was continually riding a lame horse someone could report them and something could be done even if only advice for the health of the horse.

 

[dozzie]

The people moaning about these dealers need to stop discussing it on forums and report it to trading standards and the police.

 

[Aquila]

The people moaning about these dealers need to stop discussing it on forums and report it to trading standards and the police.

They have been reported by many many people. Even to the BBC and Watchdog. Things don't happen overnight. It took 5 years to get the Kent based two convicted. If it isn't discussed on forums and other sites how are people supposed to be warned off in the meantime??

 

[dozzie]

They have been reported by many many people. Even to the BBC and Watchdog. Things don't happen overnight. It took 5 years to get the Kent based two convicted. If it isn't discussed on forums and other sites how are people supposed to be warned off in the meantime??

Discussion on forums could potentially jeopardise a case. Hopefully the result of the Kent Case will make the Essex police and Trading standards take action.

 

[Jach]

Two from Kent were discussed on Forums now hopefully they are spending their time wishing they hadn't scammed so many people and drugged so many of the poor horses. As Aquila said how are people supposed to be aware if kept off social media sites. Trust me there is much going on 'behind the scenes' that cannot be made public. Their day in court will come, how long that takes I don't know but am confident it will happen.

 

[ester]

what do you mean kept of social media sites? Yes there are issues about talking about it on here, and there are issues of people discussing live cases but facebook is full of information before you even hit google!? And even here where discussion is limited you will be told barge + pole and pm

 

[Leo Walker]

There is lots and lots of information available on social media, but the dedicated facebook group is a real live train wreck sadly! Enough that I would never EVER suggest anyone I know joins. There is useful information on there, but its hidden by what comes across as a personal vendetta by the starters of the page. I know it was set up from the best of intentions, but it genuinely does muddy the water massively. When people have bought a HOYs potential horse from MS/EE/RS which then gives a good show in a HOYs qualifier class and the pages screams and shouts that its lame, it just makes a mockery of why it was set up. There are enough lame and written off horses without doing that!

Having had dealings with them I know full well that there are HUGE issues but that isnt what you get from the Facebook page sadly.

Anyone looking for a horse needs to check one of the better dodgy dealer sites, and to do some googling. Its not 100% as at least one of the worst dodgy dealers I know runs a blumming dodgy dealer site and just deletes any negative reviews!

But an experienced person would clock the potential issues with the horses straight away and if you cant do that then you shouldn't be horse shopping alone. If you dont have an experienced friend then pay an experienced person to come with you. Even if it costs you £500 it could save you thousands of pounds and untold amounts of heartbreak. And for the love of god do NOT buy unseen even if its been vetted. I know of 2 people who bought unseen and had them vetted and then had them PTS within 2 months as they were irrevocably broken

 

[ester]

Oh you take all info off facebook with a huge dose and salt and common sense

Common sense that also tells you that you don't get a dealers vet to do the vetting for you so that if they have been drugging it at least you will have proof down the line as in the kent case

 

[honetpot]

Oh you take all info off facebook with a huge dose and salt and common sense

Common sense that also tells you that you don't get a dealers vet to do the vetting for you so that if they have been drugging it at least you will have proof down the line as in the kent case

People who scam, whether they are knocking on some old ladies door, or waiting for the first time horse buyer with little knowledge are good at their job. They select the weak. The horse is suddenly sold, or they are busy if you ask knowledgeable questions and only select people who do not know very much and would not know that they should not use the venders vet. They would assume that a vet is like a doctor, a professional who would give them unbiased professional advice. The unknowing think that buying a horse is like buying a car, that a quite novice horse or pony that has no competition record should be cheap, they only want it to hack, they may not even know how to match a horse to a passport or even it should have a passport.
I went to collect a pony for someone, a gelding, when I got it home I said, 'you do realise its a mare?'. Now the child had been having lessons and the mother just assumed what she was told was true, they had owned it for four weeks.
Its easy to be judgemental when you have knowledge, but then if you know so much you will never be caught out by a vender who does not tell the truth.

 

[Feival]

Ricky has just sold another 2, lets hope they weren't stolen too

 

[skint1]

Given the enormous amount of information about them online, I sm surprised anyone chances it. I expressed interest in a horse they had for sale about a year ago and immediately got pms from concerned friends, so the reputation is out there!

 

[ester]

People who scam, whether they are knocking on some old ladies door, or waiting for the first time horse buyer with little knowledge are good at their job. They select the weak. The horse is suddenly sold, or they are busy if you ask knowledgeable questions and only select people who do not know very much and would not know that they should not use the venders vet. They would assume that a vet is like a doctor, a professional who would give them unbiased professional advice. The unknowing think that buying a horse is like buying a car, that a quite novice horse or pony that has no competition record should be cheap, they only want it to hack, they may not even know how to match a horse to a passport or even it should have a passport.
I went to collect a pony for someone, a gelding, when I got it home I said, 'you do realise its a mare?'. Now the child had been having lessons and the mother just assumed what she was told was true, they had owned it for four weeks.
Its easy to be judgemental when you have knowledge, but then if you know so much you will never be caught out by a vender who does not tell the truth.

Of course they select the weak but it is also hard to be too sympathetic when the knowledge is out there for you, you just have to look for it.
1) we have the internet and google, and a plethora of forums where you can ask questions not only about specific dealers but there are even plenty of articles about how to buy safely from a good dealer- and the additional rights that affords you.
2) if you asked anyone about vettings in real life (pony club/more experienced friend) or on here then you would be told in the instances of a dealer when the horse will have no veterinary history to be disclosed with the vendors vet you should not use the vet suggested to you by the dealer. Most vets are as professional and unbiased as doctors but best not to take the risk.

So unless you are living in some sort of alternate universe where before you spend thousands of pounds it isn't worth turning the computer on and googling a name/phone number/buying a horse from a dealer then no, I don't have much sympathy for many of them. Obviously it is possible to do all that and things still go wrong but if you don't then you have to shoulder part of the blame for being so gullible and take it as a life lesson to do your research next time unless you have money to burn of course. I assume in the instance of collection they hadn't even got so far as vetting.

 

[Snuffles]

Havent read all the posts, but after the Kent Vet and dealers saga, how come these people are not being pursued similarly if all claims are true ?

 

[Kaylum]

Of course they select the weak but it is also hard to be too sympathetic when the knowledge is out there for you, you just have to look for it.
1) we have the internet and google, and a plethora of forums where you can ask questions not only about specific dealers but there are even plenty of articles about how to buy safely from a good dealer- and the additional rights that affords you.
2) if you asked anyone about vettings in real life (pony club/more experienced friend) or on here then you would be told in the instances of a dealer when the horse will have no veterinary history to be disclosed with the vendors vet you should not use the vet suggested to you by the dealer. Most vets are as professional and unbiased as doctors but best not to take the risk.

So unless you are living in some sort of alternate universe where before you spend thousands of pounds it isn't worth turning the computer on and googling a name/phone number/buying a horse from a dealer then no, I don't have much sympathy for many of them. Obviously it is possible to do all that and things still go wrong but if you don't then you have to shoulder part of the blame for being so gullible and take it as a life lesson to do your research next time unless you have money to burn of course. I assume in the instance of collection they hadn't even got so far as vetting.

That must go for a lot of HHO users then as you see many many posts saying what do I do with a horse I bought that is not right and it was bought unseen unvetted or vetted by the dealers vet. People are too trusting and these dealers know that and yes they should be taken to court. It is not a life lesson its the life of an animal everyone seems to forget that.

 

[ester]

yup, trouble is people ask advice after the problem rather than trying to prevent it occurring.

 

[Aquila]

Havent read all the posts, but after the Kent Vet and dealers saga, how come these people are not being pursued similarly if all claims are true ?

They are being pursued. It takes time. The Kent dealers were first brought to light in 2010 so it's taken 6 years.

 

[Jach]

I fully understand why people are saying do not buy unseen, use vet of your choice, do your research etc but there are people out there whose child has had a few lessons and the parents decide they will buy a horse or pony. yes, they are naive and yes they are targeted by the likes of these people but these naive people are often left out of pocket, heartbroken and bitter...hence the vitriol on some sites. All perfectly understandable to me, feelings run very high when people have been duped by a dodgy dealer. We cannot say 'it serves you right' because that absolves blame from these awful dealers. Everyone started somewhere on their journey with horses, please don't disparage affected novices who feel bad enough that they trusted such people. I cannot begin to imagine the anger, guilt, regret or shame that these poor buyers feel. We as a horse community need to support these people, not make them feel worse for the wrong decision they have made...hence the value of sites exposing them. There are posts where the true point is lost, but as I said feelings run very high where Meadow Stables, Sammarie Pheb, John/Jay Archer, Ricky Sawyer et al are concerned. The site Meadow Stables the truth does more good than harm, it does reach many who otherwise wouldn't have known their awful reputation. If you think the people who buy are fools then at least think of the poor, broken horses!

 

[Smellycob]

There is lots and lots of information available on social media, but the dedicated facebook group is a real live train wreck sadly! Enough that I would never EVER suggest anyone I know joins. There is useful information on there, but its hidden by what comes across as a personal vendetta by the starters of the page. I know it was set up from the best of intentions, but it genuinely does muddy the water massively.

This x

But an experienced person would clock the potential issues with the horses straight away and if you cant do that then you shouldn't be horse shopping alone.

This x

If you dont have an experienced friend then pay an experienced person to come with you. Even if it costs you £500 it could save you thousands of pounds and untold amounts of heartbreak. And for the love of god do NOT buy unseen even if its been vetted.

This x