Debate - what vices are a no no for you?

Spring Feather said:
Hmm I don't know many over your way who would leave a long nylon rope knotted to a nylon halter and leave the horse like that for weeks. At least I've never seen anyone on here do that and I've seen tons of posts where people berate others for leaving nylon headcollars on in the field. I've not seen anyone keep a horse in a dry lot pen either over there, although maybe many do?
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I think a lot of people here would not do it that way. People here get pissy if you solid tie, never mind leave em witha rope hanging!
 
The price I pay for my ponies you have to expect vices ;P
Herbie came with nearly every one under the sun but he's my little star now. Still querky but I wouldn't change him for the world.
 
For me the biggest no no is bad in traffic. Anything else you can work on. To be fair, you can work on bad in traffic as well but the odds of surviving are lower.

Also as I have a young child I like manners on the ground. So do my vet and farrier. Wouldn't really want to compromise on this. If I get hurt it's my problem and I get sick pay, the farrier doesn't.
 
Cortez said:
A lot of people "here" do some very daft things, and could learn a lot from people in other wheres.
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Hey, you're telling me. Just saying I've had a right ear bashing on here for being someone who solid ties, can't imagine what I would get if I put one in a pen with no food and a rope hanging off it. I have duly jotted down it and I might do it one day but I won't telling hho that's for sure!
 
Well, I won't have anything that won't tie, and I mean tie properly, not to a little bit of silly string that breaks if they pull - which is an excellent way of training a horse to just pull and pull until it breaks. All of mine tie. To solid things.
 
Cortez said:
Well, I won't have anything that won't tie, and I mean tie properly, not to a little bit of silly string that breaks if they pull - which is an excellent way of training a horse to just pull and pull until it breaks. All of mine tie. To solid things.
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Mine didn't. It pulled rings out of walls and broke clips on ropes all the time. Very annoying. I wish it hadn't learnt that trick from someone. That was tied to solid things. I dib't bother with string!

I will add horses which don't tie up. They are irritataing too.
 
I can deal with 'bunny hop' rears but not full on upright rears. The same goes with bucking excited little hops I can cope with.

I couldn't be dealing with a horse that doesn't like traffic or that doesn't hack out alone.
 
Bucking and rearing (as a form of napping), no and also no to anything without self preservation. I don't mind sharp or spooky, I find that that quite often comes with a strong sense of self preservation! My husband wouldn't allow me to have a cribber and I wouldn't tolerate a box walker. Mild weaving I could live with. I would buy anything that wouldn't hack alone or couldn't be left in/out alone at all (not that I would ever keep one alone but they can't all be ridden at the same time all the time) and I couldn't have anything that I couldn't clip or load on my own. I would have anything that was nasty either. Bad to catch I don't mind, I've always managed to sort that.

Like others, I don't have the time for problem horses - I want to enjoy the time I spend with them. Those without problems aren't hard to find and aren't always expensive.
 
Rearers, big buckers (my lad is on a final warning for that one) and horses that won't be caught. Having said that I have had in my time all of the above! Never had, nor would I ever want a horse that box walks, crib bites or wind sucks. Annoying vices but can be overcome with time but may put me off initially is a horse that won't stand still to mount or tie up!
 
When I was horse searching I wanted a horse with ok ground manners - typically I did not get one! - but my horse is just very excitable and bolshy (working on it!), she isn't malicious. I previously looked after a horse which was very aggressive on the ground (kicking/pawing at you/running at you/biting etc - the works), and it has been the only thing that has really knocked my confidence with horses - I would doubt my ability to cope with another like that.

Have had a horse who was terrible in traffic and he did improve over the years, but it wasn't something I enjoyed working through so would avoid that again if it was a real issue. Also not keen on the ones you can't catch!! Personally would not want a horse that was a stubborn or nervous traveller, have been there & done that and would just prefer to be able to go out and have fun without worrying about getting there / getting home again.

Otherwise I'm pretty easy vice-wise. When I was younger my first pony was the worst kind of first pony imaginable, but I will be eternally grateful to him because he taught me to cling on - bucking and rears don't phase me at all (though ideally would not want a regular rearer as it can be so dangerous), he was also a serial tanker so horses chasing off with me is something I can work on without being worried too. Wouldn't want a "true" bolter though.
I'm not keen on cribbing purely because it destroys everything, but again - my horse does it! However I would draw the line at windsucking. Weaving doesn't bother me, neither does box walking or pacing round the field.
 
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Jesstickle said:
I think a lot of people here would not do it that way. People here get pissy if you solid tie, never mind leave em witha rope hanging!
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Yep I've noticed that too lol. I would never ever tie my horses to something that breaks (like the little shredded pieces of baler twine I see you guys tying to) but that's me. I teach my horses to tie and they are always tied to something which does not move and they know it doesn't move, so neither do they. They'll stand tied to anything for as long as I want them to be there without complaint or fuss. Horses for courses so I don't usually say anything in those posts.
 
LauraWheeler said:
The price I pay for my ponies you have to expect vices ;P
Herbie came with nearly every one under the sun but he's my little star now. Still querky but I wouldn't change him for the world.
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You're back! :):) (Not sure we spoke much when you posted a lot as have always been more of a lurker, but I used to really like your videos and updates on your ponies. Made me cry when you posted stories about your lovely Lucy!)


I digress, sorry...

I would ride a rearer (small prances, more stamping front legs than 'flipping over backwards'!) although probably not buy unless I'd ridden a few times and was confident it could be worked through; difficult to catch, shoe, clip, etc. wouldn't bother me much as I'd work through it. Other issues like refusing to hack alone etc. are annoying but I'd sort it eventually with help from pros.

I wouldn't, however, touch a horse that broncs and twists. When I first bought LG, he used to explode like a rodeo horse without warning (poor boy :( - just from fear/remembered pain). Sorted him out in terms of tack and comfort etc. but his fear stayed with him for a while - he did come good eventually but only after I'd broken several bones in various falls. Wouldn't put myself through it again, now that I know what it's like to own a lovely little horse that's all I want!

Plus although I am 'tolerant' of issues and have a lot of professionals around to help me, I'm not really talented enough to deal with quirks on a regular basis.
 
You couldn't pay me to have something that's a bastid to handle. Grumpy/not cuddly is ok. Aiming with teeth and feet, isn't!

Don't mind a bucker, prefer a bucker over a rearer. But I'd want to know WHY they did it.

Wouldn't have something that naps. Can't stand lazy horses either.

Cribbing/weaving/box walking/door kicking are irritating vices yes, but if the horse and price were right I'd get over it.

I'd never even considered the tying up issue. But we cross tie all ours and never leave them tied up unattended so not an issue (Out of curiosity, anyone with a horse that just pulls back.... Have you tried just threading the rope through the ring and leaving it loose? The look of shock when there's no scuffle/bang/crash when they break the rope/twine/ring is fairly satisfying. Equally, with door kickers, just fix a hanging square of matting in front of their door. No noise, no attention, no problem).
 
bolting, bad in traffic and windsucking. i can deal with horses that buck and rodeo, already got one. i can deal with horses that rear (even ones that come over but prefer not to) already got one of those too but i cant be dealing with a horse that bolts, i do a lot of road work so needs to be good or needs to get over it fast and i hate the sound of wind sucking! i have a horse which kicks while being lead/released in to the field and i have no issue with it as long as i move out of the firing line and i also have a horse that nips almost constantly and cribs when stressed which i also deal with but generally i dont like stable vices like weaving, box walking, door climbing, crib biting, door kicking etc but if the horse is 100% other then that im fine :)
 
nikkimariet said:
You couldn't pay me to have something that's a bastid to handle. Grumpy/not cuddly is ok. Aiming with teeth and feet, isn't!

Don't mind a bucker, prefer a bucker over a rearer. But I'd want to know WHY they did it.

Wouldn't have something that naps. Can't stand lazy horses either.

Cribbing/weaving/box walking/door kicking are irritating vices yes, but if the horse and price were right I'd get over it.

I'd never even considered the tying up issue. But we cross tie all ours and never leave them tied up unattended so not an issue (Out of curiosity, anyone with a horse that just pulls back.... Have you tried just threading the rope through the ring and leaving it loose? The look of shock when there's no scuffle/bang/crash when they break the rope/twine/ring is fairly satisfying. Equally, with door kickers, just fix a hanging square of matting in front of their door. No noise, no attention, no problem).
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Are you kidding? It jus took itself to the field if it was in anyway able. It wasn't breaking things to break them, it had a pln in mind. And don't think grabbing it as it went passed would have stopped it because it would pull the rope through your hands and carry on regardless. Knobber!
 
mynutmeg said:
Sounds like a decent method although I'd only leave in a leather headcollar due to the unbreakable nature of most nylon halters.
Our guys are brilliant to catch and it has a lot to with we spent a winter litterally driving to the field, feeding and then going away as they could be hit and miss before that. (I had broken both ankles so my sister was caring for them all on her own). They pretty much come running when we call now but when they come in they always come to either a feed or a haynet so it's pleasent for them to come.
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I would do similar, I find it always works so I've never had to resort to a removal of all privileges. And if it didn't work I would be wondering why.
 
I Wont have a true bolter or a tower building rearer, although my big horse used to do this and flipped himself in hand bleddy big eejit. Dont mind most things but these 2 are no goers for me these days
 
mynutmeg said:
Sounds like a decent method although I'd only leave in a leather headcollar due to the unbreakable nature of most nylon halters.
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Sorry I meant to reply to you :smile3: That would be kinda pointless though as tying to a leather headcollar would mean it would break. The whole point is that the halter does not breaks when the horse treads on the 10ft nylon rope.
 
nikkimariet said:
You couldn't pay me to have something that's a bastid to handle. Grumpy/not cuddly is ok. Aiming with teeth and feet, isn't!

Don't mind a bucker, prefer a bucker over a rearer. But I'd want to know WHY they did it.

Wouldn't have something that naps. Can't stand lazy horses either.

Cribbing/weaving/box walking/door kicking are irritating vices yes, but if the horse and price were right I'd get over it.

I'd never even considered the tying up issue. But we cross tie all ours and never leave them tied up unattended so not an issue (Out of curiosity, anyone with a horse that just pulls back.... Have you tried just threading the rope through the ring and leaving it loose? The look of shock when there's no scuffle/bang/crash when they break the rope/twine/ring is fairly satisfying. Equally, with door kickers, just fix a hanging square of matting in front of their door. No noise, no attention, no problem).
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I had a tb that panicked if he had too much pressure on his poll when tied up (he had issues but was very sweet) and we got around it by threading the rope through string and tying a knot in the end. Hed gradually pull the rope through the string and every so often we'd pull it back. Worked well as the string gave a little resistance but allowed him to pull the rope through so no tight poll pressure to make him freak. It was a pure fear response as he stood stock still once the pressure was gone.

Spring Feather said:
Sorry I meant to reply to you :smile3: That would be kinda pointless though as tying to a leather headcollar would mean it would break. The whole point is that the halter does not breaks when the horse treads on the 10ft nylon rope.
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A decent leather one wont break easily but if they got it caught on the pen or something then it would break before the horse would. If it breaks before the horse lifts it foot off the rope then it's not a very good headcollar :p My mare broke 2 sets of reins by standing on them but my headcollars are way tougher than that :D
I've not seen them left with a 10 foot rope before usually just maybe 2 foot so there is something to get hold of without them getting tangled.
 
mynutmeg said:
What would eb the advantage/lesson for the horse in leaving them with such a long rope on?
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They're often used when people buy semi-feral horses who have lived their lives on huge ranches with no human handling. Or for horses who are idiots when they get caught up in fences, either by their feet or by headcollars. Or for horses who for whatever reason can't be caught. They can be used for reteaching horses, but for the most part they're used with young horses as part of future training; precursor to tying up and to teach horses not to panic if they get caught in fences etc and to make sure your horse can be caught and for ground tying ... many different reasons.
 
Wouldn't touch a known bolter or serious rearer (something that just gets a bit strong in a field and needs firm application of the brakes wouldn't bother me so much, nor would a horse that has been known on occasion to do the pathetic front feet just barely off the floor version of rearing). Not overly keen on bucking (esp big scary at serious risk of being unseated type ones) but wouldn't write off a horse that say flicks a back leg out / bunny hops when the whip is used. Habitual napping is a bit of a no for me as well as I don't have the time and patience to wait such things out (obv every horse gets unsure sometimes)

Would think twice about a kicker or a biter as well purely because I've seen and heard of serious injuries from nasty bites and well the kicking would depend on how bad / what the triggers seem to be.

Wouldn't be put off by weaving / windsucking etc per se if everything else was right but as current horse can be a bit of a stresshead when the mood takes I would actively avoid getting another very stressy horse because it does make life harder!

Things I'd be quite happy to work on would include catching issues (as long as horse doesn't charge at you or try to double barrel you in efforts to get away!), mild loading issues and general bad manners / bargeyness.
 
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This one, don't like the colour



;)
 
Rather than teaching my hard to catch, won't tie up horse, he has taught me to be patient and calm when frustrated. Although he's still not 100% in these areas now, he's most of the way there and it doesn't cause any grief.

Without the problem horses, I would have learnt nothing. I'd prefer to have a perfect horse but working out solutions and compromises has been an invaluable teacher.

If I had to chose one no-no, it'd probably be the horse that doesn't care whether its rider stays in the saddle or not. I love horses that although they have melt down moments, basically want to keep you safe and on board even if you do end up hitting the dirt, they're endearingly perplexed by your departure.
 
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