Decision Made!

[hairymolly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Have decided she is going to horsey boot camp then she is getting sold onto to someone bigger and stronger than me and with more facilities.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good on you - if the horse doesn't suit, sell it on. But what is "horsey boot camp" exactly?! It does sound like you could retrain and sell. If she has top paces someone will take on the burden of sorting out the bolshiness. Good luck to you mate!

[/ QUOTE ]

A local lady who takes horses for schooling. She is a lovely quiet rider but is very strict in a quiet firm but fair manner. She does not batter them but she suffers non nonsense either riden or on the ground. Horse really does move like a star and has the movement to go a long way in dressage plus she is a natural show off. Hence why I have persevered for so long.

 

[skewby]

Then good for you. Look forward to helping you with your search for the next horse!

xx

 

[Echo Bravo]

Have two of those, who have temper tantrums. One badly treated before I bought her, taken 6 years and she still pulls a face but I trust her and she trusts me and the younger I've had since she was born she's now 4 and throws a wobbly now and then, usually when she wants to do something, that she cann't do like go out and yes she been through me a few times and I've had a back injury and a couple of duckegg swelling on my head when it's hit the concrete, with her I stand there and yell ARRGGHHH as loud as I can at her and surprising how she stands to attention as she realises she's done something wrong as if her brain clicks back into place and she then calms down. horses don't like loud noises. But it works for me.

 

[hairymolly]

[ QUOTE ]
Have two of those, who have temper tantrums. One badly treated before I bought her, taken 6 years and she still pulls a face but I trust her and she trusts me and the younger I've had since she was born she's now 4 and throws a wobbly now and then, usually when she wants to do something, that she cann't do like go out and yes she been through me a few times and I've had a back injury and a couple of duckegg swelling on my head when it's hit the concrete, with her I stand there and yell ARRGGHHH as loud as I can at her and surprising how she stands to attention as she realises she's done something wrong as if her brain clicks back into place and she then calms down. horses don't like loud noises. But it works for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I never thought of screaming at her to stop her from trying to killing me I was too busy saying "what a good horsey you are now please dont try and kill your mummy" in a nice baby voice.

 

[WelshD]

You shouldnt have tried to muck out around your horse, you should have been more organised with your time, thats not her fault.

You have brushed off all good advice given here and its obvious the decision is made which will allow you both to move on from this unfortunate pairing and thats def a good thing but do be firmer with your next horse, its not all that great to have owned this one 18 months and not taught it basic stable manners

 

[TarrSteps]

If it's not working, it's not working. For either of you. I do think that's an important point to remember, that often gets lost - if a horse is not operating reasonably in its environment we owe it to the animal to at least consider the possibility it's not the right environment for the horse.

Highly bred competition horses do not necessarily make good pets. They don't necessarily cope well with reduced exercise or more relaxed management regimes. They are bred to jump high/run fast/be explosive so surely it's no surprise to anyone when this is their preferred course of action. I'm not excusing bad manners, I'm merely pointing out that there are horses for courses (and vice versa) and just because a horse is not coping well in one situation doesn't mean it won't go on to do well in another. This horse might very well move well enough to be an Advanced horse or jump well enough to be a top level jumper - jobs in which her energy and assertiveness will be used and channelled. She will also be managed by people used to dealing with such horses, in situations designed to deal with them.

Again, I am NOT saying horses shouldn't behave. The FIRST rule is do not hurt the human. BUT not every horse is equipped to learn that lesson easily or remember it under stress. And not every person is in a position to cope with a horse that struggles with it.

I've spent years sorting out the situations that can be modified from the ones that need to change drastically. It's almost never that people are weak or unwilling or that the horses are dangerous, it's almost always that it's not a good fit. If circumstances are such - given available time, money, facilities, skill level etc (it's all very well to tell people what they SHOULD do, but that's not always what they CAN do) - that change cannot be effected quickly and reliably, then sometimes it's best for everyone to move on. No shame in it. Other people might make other choices, but your choice is yours alone to make.

 

[hairymolly]

[ QUOTE ]
If it's not working, it's not working. For either of you. I do think that's an important point to remember, that often gets lost - if a horse is not operating reasonably in its environment we owe it to the animal to at least consider the possibility it's not the right environment for the horse.

Highly bred competition horses do not necessarily make good pets. They don't necessarily cope well with reduced exercise or more relaxed management regimes. They are bred to jump high/run fast/be explosive so surely it's no surprise to anyone when this is their preferred course of action. I'm not excusing bad manners, I'm merely pointing out that there are horses for courses (and vice versa) and just because a horse is not coping well in one situation doesn't mean it won't go on to do well in another. This horse might very well move well enough to be an Advanced horse or jump well enough to be a top level jumper - jobs in which her energy and assertiveness will be used and channelled. She will also be managed by people used to dealing with such horses, in situations designed to deal with them.

Again, I am NOT saying horses shouldn't behave. The FIRST rule is do not hurt the human. BUT not every horse is equipped to learn that lesson easily or remember it under stress. And not every person is in a position to cope with a horse that struggles with it.

I've spent years sorting out the situations that can be modified from the ones that need to change drastically. It's almost never that people are weak or unwilling or that the horses are dangerous, it's almost always that it's not a good fit. If circumstances are such - given available time, money, facilities, skill level etc (it's all very well to tell people what they SHOULD do, but that's not always what they CAN do) - that change cannot be effected quickly and reliably, then sometimes it's best for everyone to move on. No shame in it. Other people might make other choices, but your choice is yours alone to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im sorry but is that not what Ive been trying to say since the beginning of this post.

 

[hairymolly]

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldnt have tried to muck out around your horse, you should have been more organised with your time, thats not her fault.

You have brushed off all good advice given here and its obvious the decision is made which will allow you both to move on from this unfortunate pairing and thats def a good thing but do be firmer with your next horse, its not all that great to have owned this one 18 months and not taught it basic stable manners

[/ QUOTE ]

How was I meant to know that all the other liveries would be up and finished by half three. I did not post this asking for advice. I have put plenty of posts up asking for advice with this horse previously. I have not brushed off advice; I either dont have the facilities to be able to provide what was suggested or I have already tried what was suggested. I AM FIRM WITH MY HORSES (yip I did need to shout) and I am extra firm with her because I know what she is like. I feel that she would be far better suited to a life on a competition type yard than as a leisure horse on a DIY yard where everybody does their own thing. Oh I hadnt even started to muck out we didnt get thet far all I did was try to untie the empty haynet next to the full haynet, I take it thats bad horsemanship as well?

 

[Enfys]

[ QUOTE ]
Hairymolly. I'd take time out of owning horses for awhile if I was you as your attitude towards your mare ( I'd have Shot her) did she come at you with teeth and feet, sounds like she stressed out, yes you are doing the right thing by her as you have finally decided to sell her on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh don't be so pious! You have never, ever said on the spur of the moment
"I could kill him/her" ?

Saying and doing are usually two completely different things, I have said it about a horse of mine that tried to kill another one, and I wasn't kidding, I WOULD have shot the animal (at that precise moment in time) if I had had a gun, he later attacked a foal over a fence, his behaviour wasn't a one off. Thankfully I found him a lovely home with no small ponies he could try to murder.

If the OP has decided to sell then so be it, that is her decision and if it feels right, then it is right for her.

You have to like a horse to enjoy having it, if you don't then do something, or get one, you do like. If I don't like a horse, I sell it (yes, 'it', as I happen to be talking generally here) to a home I hope it will enjoy more than mine. I totally agree with that quote "it costs as much to keep a bad horse as a good horse"

Being honest, the day horse ownership becomes a chore to me is the day that I will sell the lot of them, put my farm on the market and go and enjoy myself doing something else.

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
As some of you will know I have been having a bit of a dilemia about whether to keep my horsey or sell her. Thanks to all who have offered me their advice and opinion. Well tonight she made the decision for me, her behaviour was absolutely absurd. Walked in from the field very calmy went into her stable and seemed perfectly happy. Since I am a nice mummy I decided to muck out round her rather than make her stand on yard as like an ice rink I I didnt want the poor wee soul to slip. She had a small net in her stable but went in to get the bigger one to fill so she had plenty to eat when I was mucking out again I am a considerate mummy. All was fine until she decided she wanted to look out door when I was standing there I asked to move back so I could get out the door, que major temper tantrum, she was shoving me about and running at the door I got trapped in the corner and she squashed me. Couldnt move her but thankfully another livery heard the noise and came to see what was going on and pulled her off me enough for me to move. She then ran round her stable for a good 5 mins with me standing in the corner couldnt get out as every time I went near the door she ran at it wanting to barge her way out had to get friend to hold her through the bars so I could get out the stable.

Have decided she is going to horsey boot camp then she is getting sold onto to someone bigger and stronger than me and with more facilities. When she is worked she is fine but due to weather we have not been able to do anything and lady bolshy makes an appearance. I was really scared and burst into tear when got out the stable. This is not on it is meant to be fun. I have made every excuse for her and stood up for her but now I am done with her. She has had ever chance but she has made her bed so as far as I am concerened she can lie in it. I was furious with her and if I had had a gun I think I would have shot her.

[/ QUOTE ]

I *think* you may have been asking me on the Horse for sale thread what I would have advised you in response to this OP?
Well here goes - ignore if you don't want to read -
1. Ensure the horse is worked regularly so it doesn't have more energy building up.
2. Establish why the horse wanted to leave the stable, and is stressed being in - in my experience this is likely to be a combination of factors including separation anxiety, claustrophobia, bad associations.
Try to move the horse to a stable where it can see others, give it a stable mirror, try to keep the stable environment quiet, or if possible leave it out with company.
3. Take steps to ensure you are safe - tie the horse up, to a wall where you can't get 'stuck' at the back of the box if you think it is a kicker. Use a chain if it breaks rope.
4. Wear a hat, gloves, and carry a short stick or have one handy - teach it to go 'back' on command, before feed for example.
If it doesn't move back, and feels pushy, nip a section of its chest skin, saying 'back' and twist or prod it in the chest til it responds, then praise lavishly when it does move back.
5. When your horse is clearly over-stimulated (if it hears the hunt, or a loose horse has just galloped by your box), just leave, shut the door, and leave it til it has calmed down.
6. When you are angry/scared/frightened, either walk away, or try to conquer your feelings and deal calmly with the horse's behaviour.
7. If you don't feel that you are a match with the horse, then sell it - but don't blame the animal (it didn't have much say in your decision to buy it), don't threaten to shoot it, and above all, don't vilify it on an open forum. The last point is important, as your future buyer could use this thread against you in law, or at the very least you are reducing your horse's value.
8. No horse is perfect - they/we all have our moments - hope you can find something quieter to restore your confidence (just maybe not that Welsh D

).
Good luck.
S

 

[WelshD]

Shilasdair - expect that to be 'quoted' back to you with a load of defensive/dismissive/confrontational comments, you are quite literally flogging a dead horse here lol

 

[Echo Bravo]

1) Shilasdair well said
2) Enfys why didn't you have the horse put down as you say he was dangerous.
3) hairymolly you are the one putting your mare down nobody else.

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
Shilasdair - expect that to be 'quoted' back to you with a load of defensive/dismissive/confrontational comments, you are quite literally flogging a dead horse here lol

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt.

I've given up now - but you've got to give me points for trying if nothing else!
S

 

[WelshD]

10/10 some people were born to never listen or acknowledge that they may be at fault in any way

A bad workman......

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
don't threaten to shoot it, and above all, don't vilify it on an open forum.

[/ QUOTE ]
*fond memories* Last time Antifaz wriggled out of his headcollar and effed off to the 5 THOUSAND hectare cattle farm next door on the hottest day of the year, I told him in no uncertain terms he was going to the sausage factory. Is that wrong?

I've still got him though and he still lurrrves his mummy

 

[bigboyrocky]

dont want to get involved, but i think youve done the right thing, and alot of people are being a bit harsh and taking this too far

you obviously dont feel safe around her, so the right thing to do, is make sure the person dealing with her does feel safe with her. so in your case the only thing you can do is sell her or let someone else take her on. you cant help not having the facillities, and some of the circumstances, and youve done what you can to help her with what youve got! i think youve done very well persevering for aslong as you have, and youve made the right decision to sell her. find a horse that your happy to be with and make sure all parties are happy, including the mare you have now

i dont think some of the people above have realised that you HAVE realised you 'faults/mistakes' and have realised that you cant cope with her behaviour in your circumstances and have therefore decided to part with her. good luck with finding her a home and finding another horse to have lots and lots of fun with

xxxxxxxxxx

 

[hairymolly]

[ QUOTE ]
dont want to get involved, but i think youve done the right thing, and alot of people are being a bit harsh and taking this too far

you obviously dont feel safe around her, so the right thing to do, is make sure the person dealing with her does feel safe with her. so in your case the only thing you can do is sell her or let someone else take her on. you cant help not having the facillities, and some of the circumstances, and youve done what you can to help her with what youve got! i think youve done very well persevering for aslong as you have, and youve made the right decision to sell her. find a horse that your happy to be with and make sure all parties are happy, including the mare you have now

i dont think some of the people above have realised that you HAVE realised you 'faults/mistakes' and have realised that you cant cope with her behaviour in your circumstances and have therefore decided to part with her. good luck with finding her a home and finding another horse to have lots and lots of fun with

xxxxxxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for that

 

[hairymolly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As some of you will know I have been having a bit of a dilemia about whether to keep my horsey or sell her. Thanks to all who have offered me their advice and opinion. Well tonight she made the decision for me, her behaviour was absolutely absurd. Walked in from the field very calmy went into her stable and seemed perfectly happy. Since I am a nice mummy I decided to muck out round her rather than make her stand on yard as like an ice rink I I didnt want the poor wee soul to slip. She had a small net in her stable but went in to get the bigger one to fill so she had plenty to eat when I was mucking out again I am a considerate mummy. All was fine until she decided she wanted to look out door when I was standing there I asked to move back so I could get out the door, que major temper tantrum, she was shoving me about and running at the door I got trapped in the corner and she squashed me. Couldnt move her but thankfully another livery heard the noise and came to see what was going on and pulled her off me enough for me to move. She then ran round her stable for a good 5 mins with me standing in the corner couldnt get out as every time I went near the door she ran at it wanting to barge her way out had to get friend to hold her through the bars so I could get out the stable.

Have decided she is going to horsey boot camp then she is getting sold onto to someone bigger and stronger than me and with more facilities. When she is worked she is fine but due to weather we have not been able to do anything and lady bolshy makes an appearance. I was really scared and burst into tear when got out the stable. This is not on it is meant to be fun. I have made every excuse for her and stood up for her but now I am done with her. She has had ever chance but she has made her bed so as far as I am concerened she can lie in it. I was furious with her and if I had had a gun I think I would have shot her.

[/ QUOTE ]

I *think* you may have been asking me on the Horse for sale thread what I would have advised you in response to this OP?
Well here goes - ignore if you don't want to read -
1. Ensure the horse is worked regularly so it doesn't have more energy building up.
2. Establish why the horse wanted to leave the stable, and is stressed being in - in my experience this is likely to be a combination of factors including separation anxiety, claustrophobia, bad associations.
Try to move the horse to a stable where it can see others, give it a stable mirror, try to keep the stable environment quiet, or if possible leave it out with company.
3. Take steps to ensure you are safe - tie the horse up, to a wall where you can't get 'stuck' at the back of the box if you think it is a kicker. Use a chain if it breaks rope.
4. Wear a hat, gloves, and carry a short stick or have one handy - teach it to go 'back' on command, before feed for example.
If it doesn't move back, and feels pushy, nip a section of its chest skin, saying 'back' and twist or prod it in the chest til it responds, then praise lavishly when it does move back.
5. When your horse is clearly over-stimulated (if it hears the hunt, or a loose horse has just galloped by your box), just leave, shut the door, and leave it til it has calmed down.
6. When you are angry/scared/frightened, either walk away, or try to conquer your feelings and deal calmly with the horse's behaviour.
7. If you don't feel that you are a match with the horse, then sell it - but don't blame the animal (it didn't have much say in your decision to buy it), don't threaten to shoot it, and above all, don't vilify it on an open forum. The last point is important, as your future buyer could use this thread against you in law, or at the very least you are reducing your horse's value.
8. No horse is perfect - they/we all have our moments - hope you can find something quieter to restore your confidence (just maybe not that Welsh D

).
Good luck.
S

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok here goes:
1 I cant help the fact that there has been a foot of snow on the ground for two weeks both schools frozon solid and roads too slippy to hack the best i can do until weather thaws is daily turnout.
2 She can see other horses in her stable either side and across from her, she cant live out as suffers from terrible mud rash and she really feels the cold. I did consider a mirror but she seemed to have settled. I would love to know what upsets her!!
3 I do tie horse up in stable if she gets her knickers in a twist she jumps about whether tied up or not. Didnt think of using chain it was the clip that broke would the clip on a chain be stronger or are they the same as lead ropes.
4 I dont wear hat I prob should. I do wear gloves and usually have a stick handy(but this can make her more anxious and re inforces her desire to leave stable meaning she runs at door faster) she knows back and is usually very obedient to this comand.
5 When she gets excited if you open the door she runs out.
6 When I do feel overwhelmed I do leave and let her settle as soon as I can safely get out the door.
7 The horse is getting sold and I have openly admitted I am overhorsed have you never said anything in the heat of the moment.
8 I know no horse is perfect but differnt people can put up with different things horsesfor courses and all that.

Sorry but I like the weslhD but I accept yu dont think he is suitable for me.

 

[hairymolly]

[ QUOTE ]
10/10 some people were born to never listen or acknowledge that they may be at fault in any way

A bad workman......

[/ QUOTE ]

I have accpeted plenty of advice and have sought help on numerous occasions. I have openly admitted I am overhorsed so please dont be nasty to me without having your facts straight. You dont listen to what I say when I am defending myself.

 

[hairymolly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shilasdair - expect that to be 'quoted' back to you with a load of defensive/dismissive/confrontational comments, you are quite literally flogging a dead horse here lol

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt.

I've given up now - but you've got to give me points for trying if nothing else!
S

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope no points because you got loads of stuff wrong (not just the name)

 

[hairymolly]

Anyway folks I give in. Thanks to all who posted. People who post before reading what is said properly please dont!!

 

[Enfys]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Shilasdair well said
2) Enfys why didn't you have the horse put down as you say he was dangerous.
3) hairymolly you are the one putting your mare down nobody else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I did say ( and mean, and have proof) he was dangerous, he was, to small ponies, not people. Remove the cause, remove the problem. His new owners know the facts.

 

[Puppy]

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldnt have tried to muck out around your horse, you should have been more organised with your time, thats not her fault.


[/ QUOTE ]

What a ridiculous statement!

 

[FMM]

Why are you feeding haylege to a horse that is not in work? That certainly won't be helping the situation.

I would perhaps suggest that a warmblood may not be the best choice, no matter how nice the paces - they are quite often different to the usual English (for want of a better word) horse and need to be handled differently. Of course there are some w/bs that are little darlings and love lots of fuss and attention, but most (specifically those who were brought up abroad) are used to being very firmly handled.

But for now, stop feeding haylege - specifically, "as much as keeps her occupied"!!! That sounds like far too much to me.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i cant believe how up their own arses some people are!!!

i dont care if the horse has been in for 4 weeks straight on ten buckets of oats a day, it should have more bloody manners than to actively try and hurt ANY person in its space!!!!

sounds like hairymolly just doesnt get on with her and thats fine, and far better for her to sell the mare now so they can both have fun with partners they gel with, than do what many people would do and keep the horse out of sheer pig headedness, and probably ruin it though temper or ignore it through fear.

i think you are def doing the right thing and if you want to pm me again to talk it through or just to vent then go ahead!!!!

i sold a lovely horse last year because i just didnt gel with him, or him with me, and it wound me up. so shoot me.

 

[arwenplusone]

Hairymolly, where are you in the country?

If you are selling a bargy mare cheap then I might be interested.

 

[ElliePippa]

I dont see how someone could say, not on the spur of the moment or anything, that they would shoot a horse..I may have read it wrong, so please dont shoot me down.
Come on everyone, she's just posted on here to inform you all of her decision, so I dont think we need to be picking at Hairymolly's methods. Shes made up her mind, and I agree, horses are too big and strong to have manners like this, dont put yourself in a dangerous situation and go with your instinct

Good Luck with your horsehunting in 2010

x

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i think it WAS spur of the moment though....thats the whole point.

iv lost count of how many times iv threatened my little darlings with fates far worse, when they've acted like twits.do i mean it-no, clearly and id laugh in the face of anyone who suggested i was in the wrong to mutter under my breath!!!!!!!

 

[Persephone]

HairyMolly, you say you have had to resort to a stick before. Did you use the stick in the stable?

I'm wondering if you were unconsciously giving off the same signals as you did when using the stick before? She might have been protecting herself expecting a whack?

I can honestly say that I have had some bargy difficult mares, but I have always managed to click with them without having to resort to sticks etc. I think if you have your posture and body language right then you have already won.

Maybe you just haven't tuned into this mare?

ETS sorry hit the button too soon! I totally respect that this mare needs a new home. For whatever reason she sounds like she would be happier elsewhere. I don't think any horse that is out of control like this is truly happy personally.

 

[FMM]

[ QUOTE ]
i cant believe how up their own arses some people are!!!

i dont care if the horse has been in for 4 weeks straight on ten buckets of oats a day, it should have more bloody manners than to actively try and hurt ANY person in its space!!!!

sounds like hairymolly just doesnt get on with her and thats fine, and far better for her to sell the mare now so they can both have fun with partners they gel with, than do what many people would do and keep the horse out of sheer pig headedness, and probably ruin it though temper or ignore it through fear.

i think you are def doing the right thing and if you want to pm me again to talk it through or just to vent then go ahead!!!!

i sold a lovely horse last year because i just didnt gel with him, or him with me, and it wound me up. so shoot me.

[/ QUOTE ]

How unnecessary was that response to my post?
The OP has got to look after the horse until it is sold, and reducing the amount of haylege WILL make the horse easier to deal with. So as far as I am concerned that is helpful advice.
I don't think the OP should keep the horse (and nor do I think she should shoot it). I think she should get shot of it as quickly as possible and buy something that she can enjoy. BUT in the meantime, SOMEONE HAS GOT TO LOOK AFTER THE HORSE SO REDUCE THE FOOD!! (which DOES make a massive difference to the general behaviour of a horse)