_jetset_
Well-Known Member
Please could someone tell me what the difference is between these two?
Is it to do with the colour genetics?
Is it to do with the colour genetics?
Difference between buckskin and dun?
- Thread starter _jetset_
- Start date
Amelia27
Well-Known Member
Hiya, yep the genetics are very different. Most of the "dun" looking warmblood types you see are actually buckskin. Dun is more commonly seen in native types.
Buckskins carry one cream dilute gene (the same as palominos and smokey blacks). They don't have a dorsal eel stripe or zebra type markings on their legs like true duns do.
Won't go heavily in to the colour genetics behind it all - it's a different world!!
Buckskins carry one cream dilute gene (the same as palominos and smokey blacks). They don't have a dorsal eel stripe or zebra type markings on their legs like true duns do.
Won't go heavily in to the colour genetics behind it all - it's a different world!!
Nailed
Well-Known Member
i just thought it was america.. lol
I certainlly won't be calling any colour buckskin...
Lou x
I certainlly won't be calling any colour buckskin...
Lou x
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
Most people in the UK refer to all golden coloured horses with black manes and tails as Duns, when in fact the majority of horses that are golden are Buckskin.
They think that the word Buckskin is an American term, so don't use it, when in fact it is used to correctly describe a horse exhibiting a different gene to the 'Dun' gene.
They think that the word Buckskin is an American term, so don't use it, when in fact it is used to correctly describe a horse exhibiting a different gene to the 'Dun' gene.
Amelia27
Well-Known Member
here's a description of the genetics if you want to be confused!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dun_gene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dun_gene
Nailed
Well-Known Member
so whats yours then? dun or buckskin
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
He is a Buckskin
Nailed
Well-Known Member
Looks dun to me =oP
Lou x
Lou x
charliesarmy
Well-Known Member
Do you need a buckskin mare to produce a buckskin foal??
cause I want one they are gorgeous
Amelia27
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Do you need a buckskin mare to produce a buckskin foal??
cause I want one they are gorgeous
[/ QUOTE ]
no not necessarily, you could get a buckskin by crossing a bay mare with a cremello stallion or a bay to a palomino etc etc . Here are all the options:
http://www.doubledilute.com/color-chart.htm
Do you need a buckskin mare to produce a buckskin foal??
[/ QUOTE ]
no not necessarily, you could get a buckskin by crossing a bay mare with a cremello stallion or a bay to a palomino etc etc . Here are all the options:
http://www.doubledilute.com/color-chart.htm
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
You are not guaranteed that a buckskin mare to a buckskin stallion will produce a buckskin foal.
My stallion carries the red gene so he can produce all of the following
To chestnut and bay mares:-
Chestnut
Bay
Palomino
Buckskin
also depending on other factors Smokey Black
To another buckskin he could produce:-
Chestnut (if mare was carrying the red gene)
Bay
Buckskin
Palomino
Cremello (if mare was carrying the red gene)
Perlino
also depending on other factors Smokey Black
My stallion carries the red gene so he can produce all of the following
To chestnut and bay mares:-
Chestnut
Bay
Palomino
Buckskin
also depending on other factors Smokey Black
To another buckskin he could produce:-
Chestnut (if mare was carrying the red gene)
Bay
Buckskin
Palomino
Cremello (if mare was carrying the red gene)
Perlino
also depending on other factors Smokey Black
charliesarmy
Well-Known Member
I need to go and find myself a cremello stallion....I actually really do like Buckskin just never imagined it could be possible
my mares a dark bay do you think when the colour chart states a Bay it means every colour of bay?? I seriously going to check this one out
charliesarmy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You are not guaranteed that a buckskin mare to a buckskin stallion will produce a buckskin foal.
My stallion carries the red gene so he can produce all of the following
To chestnut and bay mares:-
Chestnut
Bay
Palomino
Buckskin
also depending on other factors Smokey Black
To another buckskin he could produce:-
Chestnut (if mare was carrying the red gene)
Bay
Buckskin
Palomino
Cremello (if mare was carrying the red gene)
Perlino
also depending on other factors Smokey Black
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you Cruiseline
I feel really shallow wanting to breed a horse for colour
but it would be something I would consider...my mares a dark bay going to look into this
You are not guaranteed that a buckskin mare to a buckskin stallion will produce a buckskin foal.
My stallion carries the red gene so he can produce all of the following
To chestnut and bay mares:-
Chestnut
Bay
Palomino
Buckskin
also depending on other factors Smokey Black
To another buckskin he could produce:-
Chestnut (if mare was carrying the red gene)
Bay
Buckskin
Palomino
Cremello (if mare was carrying the red gene)
Perlino
also depending on other factors Smokey Black
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you Cruiseline
Amelia27
Well-Known Member
Cruiseline - just wondered if you could help with a query I have. My friend has a foal who was born palomino but is darker underneath. Her stallion is was the sire is Smokey black and the dam is chestnut. The foal still has a perfectly cream mane and tail but looks to be going a shade just a bit lighter than his dad. Is it likely that he too will be a smokey black? I am assuming that as he was born pally he must actually carry a dilute gene so the only options are pally, bucksin or smokey black?
Amelia27
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Cruiseline
I feel really shallow wanting to breed a horse for colour
but it would be something I would consider...my mares a dark bay going to look into this
[/ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of decent unusual coloured stallions out there now so you don't need to sacrifice quality for colour - you can have both. If you want to guarantee a dilute coloured foal then you would have to use a cremello or perlino stallion. There are some very nice ones around
Thank you Cruiseline
[/ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of decent unusual coloured stallions out there now so you don't need to sacrifice quality for colour - you can have both. If you want to guarantee a dilute coloured foal then you would have to use a cremello or perlino stallion. There are some very nice ones around
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
I don't know what your mares genetic colour is, but if she carries the chestnut gene, with a cremello you would have more chance of getting a palomino, if she doesn't then no problem, but to really guarantee a buckskin out of a chestnut or bay (carrying chestnut) you should use a perlino stallion
Edited to say that you after all that could get a smokey black instead
Edited to say that you after all that could get a smokey black instead
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Cruiseline - just wondered if you could help with a query I have. My friend has a foal who was born palomino but is darker underneath. Her stallion is was the sire is Smokey black and the dam is chestnut. The foal still has a perfectly cream mane and tail but looks to be going a shade just a bit lighter than his dad. Is it likely that he too will be a smokey black? I am assuming that as he was born pally he must actually carry a dilute gene so the only options are pally, bucksin or smokey black?
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like the foal is a palomino, but has also received what is called the sooty colouration, it makes the coat a bit darker than normal.
Unless you are talking about the silver dapple gene, what is the breed of horse you are talking about, just to clarify.
Cruiseline - just wondered if you could help with a query I have. My friend has a foal who was born palomino but is darker underneath. Her stallion is was the sire is Smokey black and the dam is chestnut. The foal still has a perfectly cream mane and tail but looks to be going a shade just a bit lighter than his dad. Is it likely that he too will be a smokey black? I am assuming that as he was born pally he must actually carry a dilute gene so the only options are pally, bucksin or smokey black?
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like the foal is a palomino, but has also received what is called the sooty colouration, it makes the coat a bit darker than normal.
Unless you are talking about the silver dapple gene, what is the breed of horse you are talking about, just to clarify.
Amelia27
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cruiseline - just wondered if you could help with a query I have. My friend has a foal who was born palomino but is darker underneath. Her stallion is was the sire is Smokey black and the dam is chestnut. The foal still has a perfectly cream mane and tail but looks to be going a shade just a bit lighter than his dad. Is it likely that he too will be a smokey black? I am assuming that as he was born pally he must actually carry a dilute gene so the only options are pally, bucksin or smokey black?
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like the foal is a palomino, but has also received what is called the sooty colouration, it makes the coat a bit darker than normal.
Unless you are talking about the silver dapple gene, what is the breed of horse you are talking about, just to clarify.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's very interesting - he's a warmblood. Dam is KWPN by Rubiquil and sire is BWB by Treliver Decanter
[ QUOTE ]
Cruiseline - just wondered if you could help with a query I have. My friend has a foal who was born palomino but is darker underneath. Her stallion is was the sire is Smokey black and the dam is chestnut. The foal still has a perfectly cream mane and tail but looks to be going a shade just a bit lighter than his dad. Is it likely that he too will be a smokey black? I am assuming that as he was born pally he must actually carry a dilute gene so the only options are pally, bucksin or smokey black?
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like the foal is a palomino, but has also received what is called the sooty colouration, it makes the coat a bit darker than normal.
Unless you are talking about the silver dapple gene, what is the breed of horse you are talking about, just to clarify.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's very interesting - he's a warmblood. Dam is KWPN by Rubiquil and sire is BWB by Treliver Decanter
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
He is probably showing a sooty colour then, do you have photo, it would give me a better idea.
My stallion has some sooty colouration especially on his cheeks and neck, here is an old photo of him (as a 3 year old), but it does show it.
My stallion has some sooty colouration especially on his cheeks and neck, here is an old photo of him (as a 3 year old), but it does show it.
Amelia27
Well-Known Member
Afraid I'm at work and my photos are at home :-( Will post one later
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
OK I will then try to give you an idea of what I think he is.
the watcher
Well-Known Member
An opportune time to demonstrate the effect of the dunning gene which is present in Onyx - mouse dun highland mare x the very chestnut arab HTobago - so not the dun colouration you would expect but the dorsal stripe is present (with a shaded cross over the shoulders) and he has faint zebra striping on his legs and a darker mask on his face - all typical of duns
Amelia27
Well-Known Member
He is absolutely stunning
KarynK
Well-Known Member
CharliesArmy Is your mare the horse in the signature? I ask because it is possible that she is not a bay but a black and tan if that is the case you might not be able to produce the golden buckskin like Cruiselines lovely boy. BTW Cruiseline have you got some pics of your boy's parents?
On the black and black and tan coats a single dilute gene can have little or no visible effect, so if you are setting out for that shade of buckskin as opposed to a dark buckskin then you would need to get your mares A series and E series tested and that of the stallion you choose as well, because even if he is a cremello he may carry black and or black and tan.
As your mare is a bay she has a black base coat, the E test will tell you if she carries chestnut (e). The A series test will tell you if she is a Bay (A) a Black and Tan (At) or if she carries black (a).
Animal Genetics in the UK can do the E series but at the moment you have to go to Pet DNA in the USA to find out if a horse A gene is in fact At Black and tan.
Oh just found this took this last yr on New Forest of a family of creams!
This is the dark buckskin
This the golden
This mare is probably a dark buckskin also judging by this colour of the foal, although the father could have been a buckskin as the Forest registry think they are duns.
On the black and black and tan coats a single dilute gene can have little or no visible effect, so if you are setting out for that shade of buckskin as opposed to a dark buckskin then you would need to get your mares A series and E series tested and that of the stallion you choose as well, because even if he is a cremello he may carry black and or black and tan.
As your mare is a bay she has a black base coat, the E test will tell you if she carries chestnut (e). The A series test will tell you if she is a Bay (A) a Black and Tan (At) or if she carries black (a).
Animal Genetics in the UK can do the E series but at the moment you have to go to Pet DNA in the USA to find out if a horse A gene is in fact At Black and tan.
Oh just found this took this last yr on New Forest of a family of creams!
This is the dark buckskin
This the golden
This mare is probably a dark buckskin also judging by this colour of the foal, although the father could have been a buckskin as the Forest registry think they are duns.
KarynK
Well-Known Member
This is my Dun who caused a lot of controversy in the genetics world, thought to be a Dark Red Dun he is actually a bay carrying black and tan full profile Ee AAt, but you will see around the coronet band his hairs are chocolate! But you can see the wild markings over the shoulder and on the legs above the black.
He actually has a broken dorsal stripe (probably where his appaloosa markings should have been!!!)
He was born sort of a lilac colour
He actually has a broken dorsal stripe (probably where his appaloosa markings should have been!!!)
He was born sort of a lilac colour
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
Yes KarynK, I have pics of mum and dad here you are
Legrande with his mother, she is a palomino, sorry don't have a better one of her, but you can just see her behind him.
And a photo of his father
Legrande with his mother, she is a palomino, sorry don't have a better one of her, but you can just see her behind him.
And a photo of his father
magic104
Well-Known Member
He is so gorgeous, really like him a lot.
Law
Well-Known Member
Can I throw in an unintelligent post here??? Here is my little 'un who, I believe, is buckskin although on any given day looks liver chestnut, bay, chocolate dun or brown!
Winter woolies shot
He has golden bits round his tummy, sheath, bum (around his dock and top of his legs) and in his armpits (you know what i mean, top of his front legs)
Winter woolies shot
He has golden bits round his tummy, sheath, bum (around his dock and top of his legs) and in his armpits (you know what i mean, top of his front legs)
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
He definitely looks similar to the one on KarynK post, marked dark buckskin, so you are probably correct. He is lovely to.
vikkiandmonica
Well-Known Member
Just wondering, I have a gelding, Wings, who looks bay when ridden etc. but has a dorsal stripe, so would I be correct in calling him a bay, as I always have done, or is he something else?