Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I remember your post about this before about KKK and I thought how despicable your vet was.
Different attitudes to putting dogs to sleep
- Thread starter Winters100
- Start date
Snowfilly
Well-Known Member
There are some religions which are super against PTS, although bafflingly, a lot of them like Catholics, are quite happy to eat meat while they leave their dog with a ruptured stomach to die in agony so presumably they’re happy to slaughter for meat. It’s a bizarre and wicked way of looking at life, and I have no time or patience for anyone with such a cruel attitude towards leaving an animal to suffer.
We had a lot of animals as kids and me and my brothers were always part of the PTS decision process. Not allowed to overrule it but allowed to talk about it, weigh up the reasons for today or next month and see it done. I think a lot of one or two pet owning people may get well into adulthood and never see it played out and try to run away from it.
We had a lot of animals as kids and me and my brothers were always part of the PTS decision process. Not allowed to overrule it but allowed to talk about it, weigh up the reasons for today or next month and see it done. I think a lot of one or two pet owning people may get well into adulthood and never see it played out and try to run away from it.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Yes, I have found this in several North African countries. It is very distressing, and quite illogical since killing for meat is seemingly just fine.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Isn't this the same as the UAE too? I seem to remember they like giving prosthesis to horse because they won't pts?
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
A little bit of me feels sorry for her. She knew, she couldn’t do it.
It is the hardest thing and some people can’t deal with it.
The dog is very lucky she had a great friend who went above and beyond for the sake of the dog
.
Well done
It is the hardest thing and some people can’t deal with it.
The dog is very lucky she had a great friend who went above and beyond for the sake of the dog
. Well done
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I lived inTurkey and have seen this first hand with horses it’s grim very grim .
I never could get anyone to explain why it was ok to shoot the feral kittens for fun .
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
My mother was terrible with not being able to let go particularly when she got old
When her last lab had a stroke I was fortunate to have broken my hip that day and was in hospital and my brother was there he had to deal with it refusing to let the vet do the deed wailing crying over the poor dog my brother ready to throttle her
In the end he told the vet to do the deed and locked my mother out of the room.
He was so angry with her he was on the phone to me.
When her last lab had a stroke I was fortunate to have broken my hip that day and was in hospital and my brother was there he had to deal with it refusing to let the vet do the deed wailing crying over the poor dog my brother ready to throttle her
In the end he told the vet to do the deed and locked my mother out of the room.
He was so angry with her he was on the phone to me.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
I have a bit of a phobia about dead bodies. That doesn’t stop me doing the right thing by my animals and being there for that final time when they need me. I just leave as soon as it’s done and don’t look back (always tell the vet in advance) I’ve held pets for others who didn’t feel able to be there themselves and was happy to do that too. I certainly wouldn’t let any animal suffer because of it.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I know a lady who worked in Middle East I won’t say where or what the yard did
Horses where never pts they got to go to camp in desert for nature to take its course
Horses where never pts they got to go to camp in desert for nature to take its course
Janique
Well-Known Member
I used to live in Thailand and worked at a Goverment Elephant Hospital.
We had a paralysed young elephant Babar , he had a accident at one year old and had his hind legs were paralysed.
We tried everything possible, even a elephant wheel chair but at the end, he was pts.
The Thai Vets did it but we had to keep very quiet as Elephant are sacred there.
I felt that was the right thing to do at the time, but it would be impossible to tell the Thai people, Buddism don't kill animals.
We had a paralysed young elephant Babar , he had a accident at one year old and had his hind legs were paralysed.
We tried everything possible, even a elephant wheel chair but at the end, he was pts.
The Thai Vets did it but we had to keep very quiet as Elephant are sacred there.
I felt that was the right thing to do at the time, but it would be impossible to tell the Thai people, Buddism don't kill animals.
P3LH
Well-Known Member
I have said for years if you aren’t prepared to call it a day/know when to, don’t take on the fluffy puppy/kitten/insert pet.
I’ve a relative who has never had an animal pts - and each and every one has gone on until it can’t anymore, as they ‘don’t believe in it’. I’ve another who is massively guilty of clinging on to any sign of hope or optimism as a reason to keep going.
I’m not even the day too soon camp-but months. As I’ve said before, if any of mine get a diagnosis which eventually will be the end - we go home and have some time, a few days, maybe a few weeks, and then they are sent on their way before their quality of life changes at all. I have always had the opinion if they can’t be fixed, there is no point waiting it out until they start to ‘get’ sick/‘appear’ sick. I know I’m going to lose them, and I’m the one who has to make peace with that - not them.
I thank my Grandmother, a massive pragmatist, for a lesson very early on in life - I would say I was maybe 5 or 6. One of their rough collies, my favourite, was at the end - I was told to say goodbye to him before they took him to the vets. In my optimism I said perhaps they could give him medicine/let’s see what they would say, and she firmly told me ‘he is old, it’s his time, he won’t be coming home’ - I can’t remember what it was that was wrong, she did tell me years later as an adult but whatever it was had been diagnosed mid week - she’d brought him home to say goodbyes and he went back to the vets Saturday. I’ve championed that attitude my whole adult life. In my late teens when I lost my beloved Jack Russell psychopath, the family let her go on too long and despite months of warning signs she eventually collapsed/had some sort of stroke under the garden table (I think mum and co were on holiday actually), godmother came, vet came - unprepared, awful drive back to vets and she went on her way. Hardly a fitting end for such a loyal companion - and another underpinning reason for me why I’ve always made a decision and stuck to it.
I’ve a relative who has never had an animal pts - and each and every one has gone on until it can’t anymore, as they ‘don’t believe in it’. I’ve another who is massively guilty of clinging on to any sign of hope or optimism as a reason to keep going.
I’m not even the day too soon camp-but months. As I’ve said before, if any of mine get a diagnosis which eventually will be the end - we go home and have some time, a few days, maybe a few weeks, and then they are sent on their way before their quality of life changes at all. I have always had the opinion if they can’t be fixed, there is no point waiting it out until they start to ‘get’ sick/‘appear’ sick. I know I’m going to lose them, and I’m the one who has to make peace with that - not them.
I thank my Grandmother, a massive pragmatist, for a lesson very early on in life - I would say I was maybe 5 or 6. One of their rough collies, my favourite, was at the end - I was told to say goodbye to him before they took him to the vets. In my optimism I said perhaps they could give him medicine/let’s see what they would say, and she firmly told me ‘he is old, it’s his time, he won’t be coming home’ - I can’t remember what it was that was wrong, she did tell me years later as an adult but whatever it was had been diagnosed mid week - she’d brought him home to say goodbyes and he went back to the vets Saturday. I’ve championed that attitude my whole adult life. In my late teens when I lost my beloved Jack Russell psychopath, the family let her go on too long and despite months of warning signs she eventually collapsed/had some sort of stroke under the garden table (I think mum and co were on holiday actually), godmother came, vet came - unprepared, awful drive back to vets and she went on her way. Hardly a fitting end for such a loyal companion - and another underpinning reason for me why I’ve always made a decision and stuck to it.
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Thistle
Well-Known Member
I had a dog PTS on Fri, she looked at me and I knew that it was time. I absolutely didn't want her to get to the point of collapse. It was a lovely sunny day so I took her out for a lovely potter around then made the call. Whilst I was with the lovely vet we discussed how as humans it's our absolute priviledge to be able to end the suffering of an animal, in a timely manner, without fear or stress. My dog was nearly 16, wobbly and had heart and digestive problems. She had an additional 2 years from when we first considered it. She then went on to Librela injections with helped greatly with her arthritis.
Yes, I'm very sad, see my post on here, but I have no doubt that I did the right thing for her.
The vet said that yes, he could keep her going for longer but he also said that he was pleased that I was making the decision for her, not me!
Yes, I'm very sad, see my post on here, but I have no doubt that I did the right thing for her.
The vet said that yes, he could keep her going for longer but he also said that he was pleased that I was making the decision for her, not me!
tristars
Well-Known Member
i am so glad you took him, thank you
P3LH
Well-Known Member
So sorry for your loss. It was the same with my last two.
One was slowly going off his legs - ages only 8, they look splayed at the back end and like he was sagging. We went on for over a week, despite me saying on the initial vets visit - put him down. Cancer, which has spread. I’m also not convinced it wasn’t DM too. As soon as I had a concrete answer he was put to sleep. I think because he was still quite young (and my favourite) I had to know, but it was a bad few days. Then my old gent went in august, just short of 13 - unwell on and off for about eight weeks; we thought cancer but was ruled out and he bounced back, then he because sick at the weekend and he went on his way Tuesday, organs were going and his pancreas was in trouble - ironically the vet gave me the choice of drugs and keeping him going - and said she was quietly relieved when I said ‘absolutely not’, as she said it’s now the norm not exception to keep them clinging on. I find it appalling, and have relatives who (recently) have done exactly that - it’s criminal to watch. I actually stopped visiting someone due to their ailing elderly dog.
SilverLinings
Well-Known Member
Some of my extended family (who I now choose not to keep in touch with) are very religious, I suppose they could be described as right wing Christian fundamentalists or hard-line new-age Christians. According to them only God has the right to end a life, not humans. They applied that to their own (fortunately small number of) pets, causing them to suffer IMO unforgivably.
I do think that their not being willing to PTS is justified (in their heads) by the fact that they are also very insistent that animals cannot go to heaven as they do not have souls; they 'explained' to me that animals aren't sentient like humans, and that God only made animals in order to serve humans (e.g. by being a food source or a pack animal).
If certain religious people can ignore all the evidence (and the UK's legal recognition of the rights and needs of animals) that animals are sentient and persist in just seeing them as fluffy automatons then I suppose it is easy to leave them to die a 'natural' death.
Aside from it being incredibly backwards thinking, they are also in all likelihood breaking the law by not PTS as at least some of their animals (that I knew when I was a teenager and we still met up at family things) definitely suffered awfully as they waited to die, which is cruelty and neglect.
For all that these people spouted on about being 'good Christian people' they were some of the cruellest people I have met, and had a religious justification for everything they did.
nagblagger
Well-Known Member
Just musing, if an animal was suffering due to 'religious beliefs' in UK, would the rspca be able to intervene? I presume they would but maybe not be able to prosecute.
SilverLinings
Well-Known Member
If it broke the law then the RSPCA could intervene and yes, the case could (and should) be taken to court. Religious beliefs do not get you off the hook for breaking the law like this, and you cannot claim discrimination in such cases. This is not infrequently used as an excuse in cases of child neglect and maltreatment, but the parents do not get let off. For example FGM is carried out for religious reasons in some countries, but you will be prosecuted in the UK for subjecting a child to it, whatever your religion.
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
Poor old dog, I'm sooh glad you were there to make sure the decent thing was done for him.
I'm RC, and frankly the attitude of some Catholics to some things frankly makes my p!ss boil. I'm a Catholic Convert and I rather suspect this nonsense comes from mainly "Cradle Catholics" (i.e. those who have been brought up in the faith rather than people coming into it as adults, such as myself). This nonsense of having "power of life over death" for instance. What about the god-given responsibility to do the right thing and prevent suffering?? I really don't get it.
Not wanting to faith-bash but I am also aware of this attitude, sadly, with the Islamic faith. It's appalling. And yet they'll slit the throat of something without anaesthetic, without even thinking about it, for "ceremonial" reasons. Hypocrites.
I'm RC, and frankly the attitude of some Catholics to some things frankly makes my p!ss boil. I'm a Catholic Convert and I rather suspect this nonsense comes from mainly "Cradle Catholics" (i.e. those who have been brought up in the faith rather than people coming into it as adults, such as myself). This nonsense of having "power of life over death" for instance. What about the god-given responsibility to do the right thing and prevent suffering?? I really don't get it.
Not wanting to faith-bash but I am also aware of this attitude, sadly, with the Islamic faith. It's appalling. And yet they'll slit the throat of something without anaesthetic, without even thinking about it, for "ceremonial" reasons. Hypocrites.
TheresaW
Well-Known Member
I am glad you helped the dog on his way.
Over a 9 year period, we said goodbye to my FiL, my Dad, and various horses, dogs and cats. One a year. It was bloody hard, but, we couldn’t do for our Dads what we did for the pets.
Earlier this year we made the decision to PTS an almost 14yo dog. For her age, she was in pretty good general health, but mentally wasn’t. It was a hard decision to make, but at her age, finding a new home felt worse.
In an ideal world, would have been lovey to get up in the morning and find the oldies gone in their sleep, but was highly unlikely, and not something we would have waited for.
Over a 9 year period, we said goodbye to my FiL, my Dad, and various horses, dogs and cats. One a year. It was bloody hard, but, we couldn’t do for our Dads what we did for the pets.
Earlier this year we made the decision to PTS an almost 14yo dog. For her age, she was in pretty good general health, but mentally wasn’t. It was a hard decision to make, but at her age, finding a new home felt worse.
In an ideal world, would have been lovey to get up in the morning and find the oldies gone in their sleep, but was highly unlikely, and not something we would have waited for.
Peglo
Well-Known Member
I was serving a customer at work and she got on to the topic of her daughter’s dog. She said it was making a right mess as it couldn’t move around well and the vets wanted to PTS the poor thing and had being saying it for 3 YEARS! It had many health issues (a pug) but the daughter wouldn’t let them put the dog to sleep as she would be too sad.
I tried to leave the woman as I was so furious that the dog had been suffering for so long but she tried to keep up the conversation. I finished it saying something along the lines of “when you have pets you need to put their needs first, even if it will leave you heartbroken” whilst walking away which was no where near as blunt as I’d have liked but didn't think I should as I was at work. Who on earth lets a teenager dictate a decision like that at the expense and suffering of their “beloved” pet.
OP that was a very kind thing you did for the dog.
I tried to leave the woman as I was so furious that the dog had been suffering for so long but she tried to keep up the conversation. I finished it saying something along the lines of “when you have pets you need to put their needs first, even if it will leave you heartbroken” whilst walking away which was no where near as blunt as I’d have liked but didn't think I should as I was at work. Who on earth lets a teenager dictate a decision like that at the expense and suffering of their “beloved” pet.
OP that was a very kind thing you did for the dog.
Kunoichi73
Beware... My Plants...
I find this Catholic attitude strange. My family is Catholic, I was raised Catholic, even went to a Catholic convent school and have never heard anyone state that a sick animal should be left for nature to take its course. It's an obscene attitude.
I still feel guilty, years on, for having my C cat put to sleep. He was 16. He had reoccurring cystitis and kidney problems but had been OK medicated. He'd stopped eating, but this had happened previously too, but on the last visit to the vet, when they felt his stomach, they felt a lump. He hated the vets, and was quite a nervous chap with strangers plus, at the time, money was short so I made the decision to PTS. The vet was brilliant, didn't query it or make me feel bad. However, I always wonder what they would have found if I'd decided to pay for the investigations, I could have had him a bit longer, but that would have been more for my benefit than his, I suspect. Still, I just wonder if he would have been treated and been happy and pain free for a few more months.
I still feel guilty, years on, for having my C cat put to sleep. He was 16. He had reoccurring cystitis and kidney problems but had been OK medicated. He'd stopped eating, but this had happened previously too, but on the last visit to the vet, when they felt his stomach, they felt a lump. He hated the vets, and was quite a nervous chap with strangers plus, at the time, money was short so I made the decision to PTS. The vet was brilliant, didn't query it or make me feel bad. However, I always wonder what they would have found if I'd decided to pay for the investigations, I could have had him a bit longer, but that would have been more for my benefit than his, I suspect. Still, I just wonder if he would have been treated and been happy and pain free for a few more months.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
The correct time at which to PTS is one of the only things ever that me and mum have seriously fallen out about - imo she kept our elderly cats going on far longer than I would have. They were early-mid twenties, the first had bad arthritis and I had to really get quite blunt and aggressive in making my point about it before the very end. Mum is a huge animal lover and so kind, our cats had about the best life a cat could have, but she humanises them which helps her to ok it all due to old age, much like you would with a family member who's getting old; 'Oh she's not in pain, she's just a bit stiff'.. 'She's still eating'.. 'She doesn't need to get up the stairs and I can get her steps up to the sofa'.. not realising that to an animal pain is pain, they don't know they're getting old, or it will hurt less in a few months when it gets warmer, or tomorrow might be better, and seeing the cats every day meant she hadn't realised how much pain she was clearly in. She did come round in the end but called me heartless and callous and cold in the process. I had absolute empathy for her, but I wasn't going to drop the point once I felt it had gone too far.
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
Frustratingly, I am currently in this situation with my mother.
Her dog got diagnosed with bone cancer about six months ago. He had a lump on his leg, which unusually was not actually in the bone and they were able to remove it. The lump was tested and he was diagnosed with bone cancer. He had a course of about six sessions of chemo and has had a fabulous six months. You would not have known he had cancer and he has been doing his usual walks, romping around like usual.
Over the past two weeks, he has began to show lameness on the leg. It started very subtle and indeed I walked him on Monday and he was still running about and jolly, albeit it a little wonky. He is now at the stage where she has described him as 'holding it up most of the time' and also a new lump is growing on a front leg. So in the space of three days, the pain has clearly progressed pretty rapidly.
Of course I think he should be PTS now. In honesty I would have PTS earlier but he isn't my dog.
So I messaged her back and asked her what her plan is with him. She has stopped exercising him. Says she will wait until he declines further and then make the decision.
It is a difficult situation for me as she has just come out of hospital a few days ago from a head injury and is waiting for a rehab space. She is not 100% mentally due to her injury.
Of course I have had to say it how it is, that if he is to the stage where he is physically holding the leg up and can no longer go out for a walk, then the decision needs to be made. That he may be in pain even just resting.
If she takes it on board though, is another question.
Her dog got diagnosed with bone cancer about six months ago. He had a lump on his leg, which unusually was not actually in the bone and they were able to remove it. The lump was tested and he was diagnosed with bone cancer. He had a course of about six sessions of chemo and has had a fabulous six months. You would not have known he had cancer and he has been doing his usual walks, romping around like usual.
Over the past two weeks, he has began to show lameness on the leg. It started very subtle and indeed I walked him on Monday and he was still running about and jolly, albeit it a little wonky. He is now at the stage where she has described him as 'holding it up most of the time' and also a new lump is growing on a front leg. So in the space of three days, the pain has clearly progressed pretty rapidly.
Of course I think he should be PTS now. In honesty I would have PTS earlier but he isn't my dog.
So I messaged her back and asked her what her plan is with him. She has stopped exercising him. Says she will wait until he declines further and then make the decision.
It is a difficult situation for me as she has just come out of hospital a few days ago from a head injury and is waiting for a rehab space. She is not 100% mentally due to her injury.
Of course I have had to say it how it is, that if he is to the stage where he is physically holding the leg up and can no longer go out for a walk, then the decision needs to be made. That he may be in pain even just resting.
If she takes it on board though, is another question.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
My Mum is actually the other way after letting one particular dog drag on too long and regretting it ever since.
I still can't get over the man on my street with the obese lab that was off it's feet, wheeling it around in a pram and holding it up with towels to let it go to the toilet, otherwise it just lay in a heap with the saddest eyes, but it was OK because he was taking it to a chiropractor and getting it accupuncture. Every dog he walks ends up obese and lame, I haven't seen him about with a dog for a while, hopefully people are starting to learn.
I still can't get over the man on my street with the obese lab that was off it's feet, wheeling it around in a pram and holding it up with towels to let it go to the toilet, otherwise it just lay in a heap with the saddest eyes, but it was OK because he was taking it to a chiropractor and getting it accupuncture. Every dog he walks ends up obese and lame, I haven't seen him about with a dog for a while, hopefully people are starting to learn.
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
I think pain control is difficult for osteosarcoma. I certainly would never agree to amputation in an effort to prolong life and have always said I would pts if diagnosed.
I'm sorry you are in such a difficult position @Jenko109
I'm sorry you are in such a difficult position @Jenko109
AmyMay
Situation normal
AmyMay
Situation normal
It didn’t touch Jack on his last two days.
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
Update. hes booked in for euthanasia later this afternoon.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
That must be a relief for you and for him
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
So I just spoke to her and asked her what the vet said when she took him. Apparently the vet offered to give him pain killer and to just see how he goes!!
I saw the dog the day he was being taken and he was literally on three legs, not weight bearing whatsoever, holding the leg out at a weird angle. He also had a massive lump on his shoulder (which was not there when I saw him on the Monday).
I'm actually disgusted that they would suggest it and thank goodness my mum didnt take that option!
I saw the dog the day he was being taken and he was literally on three legs, not weight bearing whatsoever, holding the leg out at a weird angle. He also had a massive lump on his shoulder (which was not there when I saw him on the Monday).
I'm actually disgusted that they would suggest it and thank goodness my mum didnt take that option!