Discussing the 20% weight rule

[Big Ben]

Who are you trying to convince more that your decision to ride is fair bb, us or yourself?

Neither, this thread was never about me until you guys made it so, I'm not asking for permission,

You have said yourself you are riding him, but that you don't do very much. Of course I don't know what to believe. I can only go by what you post on here and the other forum. For all you know, I may just keep hamsters and know nothing about horses at all. You only know what I post on a forum. So I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

ETA:

Normally before I book a lesson on a horse I get it fit enough to cope with the lesson. Are you telling me that you are not actually riding Ben, but that you have booked a lesson on him this week end?

When did I say I was riding him last??

Yes I have booked a lesson, it is a chicken and egg situation for me, don't want to ride him without having someone on the ground to help me with him, so yes I am going to haul him over to the arena, we will do some ground work and then have a walking lesson, maybe if all goes well we may try a trot.

We have like 3' of snow in all of our fields here, and the yard is pushed snow over ice, I would far rather haul and ride in a safe environment with a trainer.

But you know I don't know why I bother explaining, my life, my horse, my trainers my decision.

With Ben, 100% of people who have seen him and I in the flesh are OK with what I want to do with him. With the mares, well no I'm not comfortable with them, and am seriously considering their future with me.

 

[lpeacock]

My horse weighs 450kg, I weigh 80kg so he can carry up to 90kg. However he is only just turning 4 and I keep thinking that I am too big for him. This idea is actually the reason I found this thread.

I think us big girls know subconsciously that we are on the heavy side, especially for me as mine is still growing. I think if you toddle around the school with a bit of walk, trot and canter it will not be the end of the world in the short term, as riding itself is excerise and should bring my weight down.

However, no way would I jump, or canter him for longer than a couple of mins at my current weight. Hes not broken yet, so theoretical comment.

I intend to lose at least 10lbs before I ride him properly.

My point is Big Ben, I think you know like I do that actually it would not hurt us to loose a little (as your bar at the bottom says, well done btw) and well of course it will benefit the horse. I cannot wait to get back into my old clothes, sat in the closet looking sad.

As you have snow atm why not hold off riding till april time, loose a little bit more and see where you go from there? Weight gain is easy and tasty! getting it off definately sucks but the confidence boost is worth it!

 

[Wagtail]

Well BB, as I say, I only have what you post to go by. Sometimes it seems you are riding, other times you are not, apart from the odd 20 minute walk. Other times you say you are not riding at all. In the earlier threads when you first came on here it seems that you WERE riding and you were heavier then. Please forgive me for being a little confused. Either you are riding or you are not?

 

[Wagtail]

*LIKE*

When I picked up Ben from the trainers last year there was a guy there picking up his 14hh 2 year old QH who had just finished her 90 days.

He looked at Ben and me and asked "Why have you got such a big horse" so I answered

"Because I'm a big girl"

his response...

"Ah English, I've always wanted to ask why you English folk want to ride such big horses the whole time?"

I like small horses too. I don't understand why some tiny women ride 17hh WBs. I would LIKE to have ponies, but I would be too heavy for the lightly built ones which are the types I prefer. I could get a haffie or a highland I guess. But my point is, you need to find the type of horse that can comfortably carry you. People like Pat Parelli riding tiny quarter horses like his horse Magic, is just awful. She actually did stagger a little bit in the last clip I watched of them.

 

[tallyho!]

I think what's needed here is an animal communicator.

Someone who can put the question and get an answer straight from the horses mouth.

Any volunteers?

 

[Wagtail]

I am riding Ben??? Tell me when I last rode Ben please, you seem to know so much about me, you guessed my weight completely wrong in another thread, and now I'm riding Ben, interesting.

But you know I do have a lesson booked on Sunday, with Ben, so we will see how it goes, I won't shock you with the details though, because I know that you would rather not know.

New year, new trainer, new start, I'm looking forward to it.

So, are you telling me that you are not currently riding Ben? What about the under nourished boney QH you rescued who is only 15 hh and has only 7 1/2 inches of bone? I wouldn't normally do this, but as you seem determined to say I have made it all up:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/i-need-help-dont-know-what-153267/

 

[Big Ben]

.

As you have snow atm why not hold off riding till april time, loose a little bit more and see where you go from there? Weight gain is easy and tasty! getting it off definately sucks but the confidence boost is worth it!

Because April is seeding time, and mud time!

Plan is, now I have lost some weight is to get up and ride Ben, and the arena with a trainer is a good start.

We will work on improving our communication and basic skills over the next few weeks, and getting out there and getting active is good for both of us. There is always a good reason to wait, but we need to get started, we need to get going. I have no expectation of doing anything but walk and maybe trot for a couple of months, we'll see how it goes, the plan will be hatched AFTER the trainer has assessed us both.

When it comes down to it, I would far rather take the advice of someone on the ground who can see .both of us together, and go from there

 

[Littlelegs]

Don't tempt me Tallyho!

 

[Big Ben]

So, are you telling me that you are not currently riding Ben? What about the under nourished bony QH you rescued who is only 15 hh and has only 7 1/2 inches of bone? I wouldn't normally do this, but as you seem determined to say I have made it all up:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/i-need-help-dont-know-what-153267/

No I'm not saying you have made it all up, I'm saying tell me where you see me saying that I was riding Ben recently...

Seeing as you asked.....and for what it is worth

I bought Ben in December 2011, and have ridden him all of around 8 times over the year, he has been in training for 2 months, and a friend rode him for a month for me.

I spent the year struggling with the knee, having an op and recovering. I did start riding him again in the fall, had all of two lessons before the snow came down and everything stopped again.

So yes I have a new goal for this year.

As to Cody, no I wasn't happy on him, yes I did ride him, and he rides good, am I riding him again, no, which is why I'm riding Ben, and as you can see, thinking of selling everything that doesn't work.

While you are reading that thread, you should note the difference in opinion there and here, and it makes you wonder.

SO

My own personal opinion, Ben is fine,

Cody isn't, and the girls aren't.

Oh but me at 50 pounds lighter than I am now, damn right I would start them all.

 

[tallyho!]

I often wonder what mine would say...

I think the expression is mainly of "yawn, another half hour then I can chillax in me bedroom like. I really hope she doesn't put any of that vitnamin stuff in me chaff. I totally hate it. I wish she'd clean me bridle, it so embarrasin'. An' I wish she'd stop kickin us like, I do know where I'm goin..."

I have no idea why my horse, in my head, is a Geordie!!!!!

 

[Littlelegs]

Fascinating link Wagtail, if rather disturbing.

 

[Wagtail]

No I'm not saying you have made it all up, I'm saying tell me where you see me saying that I was riding Ben recently...

Seeing as you asked.....and for what it is worth

I bought Ben in December 2011, and have ridden him all of around 8 times over the year, he has been in training for 2 months, and a friend rode him for a month for me.

I spent the year struggling with the knee, having an op and recovering. I did start riding him again in the fall, had all of two lessons before the snow came down and everything stopped again.

So yes I have a new goal for this year.

As to Cody, no I wasn't happy on him, yes I did ride him, and he rides good, am I riding him again, no, which is why I'm riding Ben, and as you can see, thinking of selling everything that doesn't work.

While you are reading that thread, you should note the difference in opinion there and here, and it makes you wonder.

SO

My own personal opinion, Ben is fine,

Cody isn't, and the girls aren't.

Oh but me at 50 pounds lighter than I am now, damn right I would start them all.

Okay, well what you ride and when is up to you and your conscience. I have to say that you actually seem to have a lot bigger conscience than many of those on that other forum who are quitr happy to tell you you are absolutely fine to ride any of them!

We all have our own opinions of what is too heavy, and that is fair enough. I agree, we don't have any bonafide conclusive evidence of how much weight a horse can comfortably carry.

What I do have a problem with though is misleading people on here who have supported you in your weight loss threads, so that they stick up for you and say you are not riding (because that is what you must have told them, or implied). Then rather than correct Billie yourself, you argue the toss with me, saying that you are not riding Ben (but you have booked a lesson). However, it transpires, that despite finding that Cody is only 15 hh and has 7 1/2 inches of bone, you are actually riding him (in trot). Now he must weigh around 400 kg? As you tell me you are 23% of what Ben weighs at around 1300 lbs (may be wrong as I'm working from memory here). That's 580 kg? So that must make you around 133 kg which is around 33% of Cody's weight. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Wagtail]

I often wonder what mine would say...

I think the expression is mainly of "yawn, another half hour then I can chillax in me bedroom like. I really hope she doesn't put any of that vitnamin stuff in me chaff. I totally hate it. I wish she'd clean me bridle, it so embarrasin'. An' I wish she'd stop kickin us like, I do know where I'm goin..."

I have no idea why my horse, in my head, is a Geordie!!!!!

 

[HashRouge]

My Arab mare weighs about 450kg and I wouldn't even let someone who weighs 20% of her body weight ride her
She is quite slight and I just think 14 stone would be a lot for her to carry (she does also have arthritis, so I am a bit cautious with her). 30% of her bodyweight would be about 21 stone which is just ridiculous, I don't think anyone in their right mind would put a rider that heavy on a horse of her size!!!
I only weigh about 8 stone, so I'm a long way off being 20% of her body weight.

 

[Mongoose11]

to the link.

Sad to see you on Cody BB, he isn't up to weight or muscle

 

[horseperson]

I'm sorry big ben, I'm still a big girl but having lost 65lbs still wouldn't ride any of the lighter horses you have, if Ben was fitter I might ride him for short periods of time in walk with a little trot. When I started my weight loss journey I was 19.8 stone and at that weight I wouldn't/couldn't ride, I had my first lesson on Tuesday weighing 14.12 stone for half an hour at walk/trot and then a few strides of canter at the end. The horse I rode had a huge amount of bone and was hunting fit.

I don't know how much you weigh but with the saddle and everything else I would be very concerned about the well being of your horses. I'm not saying you don't love or care for your horses at all but please think about what your doing

It has taken me 15 months to lose this amount of weight, no its not been easy but I will lose the other 62lbs I need to lose to be in my healthy bmi range.

Good luck with your weight lose and your horses.

 

[Big Ben]

So now, having compared the two threads you can see why this subject interests me.

As to Cody, well I first took him over to a friend, who hopped up on him first

Then suggested I tried him, so I did, got on and walked him around the arena and got off. She said it looked OK, OH, and she is an English transplant.

Then I hauled him out and rode him once more, with a Canadian friend there, who was also OK with it, but I'm not, which is why we go back to looking for another person for him when he is fit. So in this case I disagree with the majority.

 

[Littlelegs]

Isn't the fact we don't have conclusive evidence as to what a horse should carry, good reason to always err on the side of caution, rather than say the lack of evidence means we can push the boundaries further?
I love tiny ponies, & every single day I wish I could ride my daughters, she looks so fun. At 11.1 & 200kg or so, 20% would be 40kg. I could actually get myself down that low, & if I honestly thought 40kg was a fair weight, combined with jumping stirrups & my knees halfway up her neck, I'd probably lose a bit & get on. But, I know 40kg is too much, & even if it weren't, my height would be detrimental to her, just like a too heavy rider. Therefore I won't, & never will. I could go & research the size of games ponies versus riders, or working ponies in other countries, or stats on rs ponies carrying chunky beginner kids. But, imo it doesn't matter what others might do, I know its wrong, therefore instead of trying to justify riding a too small pony, I won't.

 

[Mongoose11]

He is so cute. Can't resist that face!

 

[Big Ben]

He is so cute. Can't resist that face!

He is, and he would love to have a little girl to take care of, such a sweet and good minded horse that he is...

 

[Wagtail]

So now, having compared the two threads you can see why this subject interests me.

As to Cody, well I first took him over to a friend, who hopped up on him first

Then suggested I tried him, so I did, got on and walked him around the arena and got off. She said it looked OK, OH, and she is an English transplant.

Then I hauled him out and rode him once more, with a Canadian friend there, who was also OK with it, but I'm not, which is why we go back to looking for another person for him when he is fit. So in this case I disagree with the majority.

Your friend is tiny!

I remember commenting on your 'meet Cody' thread and saying I wouldn't want more than ten stone on him. You said 'I will give that the consideration it deserves'. I guess that you did.

I am utterly shocked at the people you have advising you. I cannot believe that they honestly think you would be okay to ride Cody. My view is that they are just protecting your feelings.

 

[Wagtail]

I'm sorry big ben, I'm still a big girl but having lost 65lbs still wouldn't ride any of the lighter horses you have, if Ben was fitter I might ride him for short periods of time in walk with a little trot. When I started my weight loss journey I was 19.8 stone and at that weight I wouldn't/couldn't ride, I had my first lesson on Tuesday weighing 14.12 stone for half an hour at walk/trot and then a few strides of canter at the end. The horse I rode had a huge amount of bone and was hunting fit.

I don't know how much you weigh but with the saddle and everything else I would be very concerned about the well being of your horses. I'm not saying you don't love or care for your horses at all but please think about what your doing

It has taken me 15 months to lose this amount of weight, no its not been easy but I will lose the other 62lbs I need to lose to be in my healthy bmi range.

Good luck with your weight lose and your horses.

What a wonderful and caring attitude you have.

Just like others here like Welsh D and Billie who put the welfare of horses before their own self gratification.

 

[Big Ben]

Your friend is tiny!

I remember commenting on your 'meet Cody' thread and saying I wouldn't want more than ten stone on him. You said 'I will give that the consideration it deserves'. I guess that you did.

I am Yup, I give your opinion, of my horses, based on a few snapshots the consideration it deserves, your continuing insistence that Ben has a long back makes me wonder about your expertise

.utterly shocked at the people you have advising you. I cannot believe that they honestly think you would be okay to ride Cody. My view is that they are just protecting your feelings.

So if you can't believe that they are telling me that you are either calling me a liar, and I assure you I'm not, or your view is that the people I know in person are either:

a) Protecting my feelings
b) Being paid by me and therefore will say any damn thing they think I want to hear.

You see, I don't know you, I know you have been on my case since I have been here, and that is fine, but I don't KNOW you. The people here, I know them, the people I chat to online over here, including competition riders and instructors, while I don't know them personally, well they are more real to me than you are I'm afraid.

Again, this is why I get confused, one bunch say one thing, another bunch say another, and why should I not give more credit to the people I know, rather than random internet people?

Again, Ben I am now comfortable to start, and enjoy, we have a long road ahead of us, but we will start with the first steps, baby steps, and go from there, the others, we'll see how it goes.

 

[Arizahn]

Completely random tip of the day:

Hiking through deep snow is terrific for weight loss and building general fitness! Have you a dog you can take for a half an hour's walk each day, Big Ben? I lost 5 lbs over a fortnight doing this!

I haven't been on that forum in a while. I got a lot of advice and support there when I was going through the merry land of My Horse Wants To Brutally Murder Me...I must pop back and say hi.

 

[ArabianGem78]

My Arab mare weighs about 450kg and I wouldn't even let someone who weighs 20% of her body weight ride her
She is quite slight and I just think 14 stone would be a lot for her to carry (she does also have arthritis, so I am a bit cautious with her). 30% of her bodyweight would be about 21 stone which is just ridiculous, I don't think anyone in their right mind would put a rider that heavy on a horse of her size!!!
I only weigh about 8 stone, so I'm a long way off being 20% of her body weight.

Snap. My 90% crabbet arab mare is around 420kg and I wouldn't put anything near 20% on her. I even have concerns about the 75kg she'll have to carry when we get to FEI 2** level in 2014 ( yes, we WILL get there!). I weigh in at around 55kg, 65kg with tack so will have to stick 10kg of lead on somewhere.....

 

[Arizahn]

Also, I suspect arabs do well at endurance due to their heritage: desert breed, extreme climate, ruthlessly culled to preserve and improve lines, etc. I would say their heart and lungs have to be incredible because of this. I have no scientific evidence, just a vague theory based on what I have read about arabs.

Oops. Got back on topic there.

 

[ArabianGem78]

....They also have a higher % of long-twitch muscle fibres (better for long distance) compared to breeds like TBs and QHs who have a higher % of short-twitch fibres (better for short sprint distances)

There are many, many, MANY reasons why a particular horse does well at endurance, but I'd really like to ensure that carrying excess weight doesn't hinder.

 

[Arizahn]

Oh, I am staying well away from that debate!

 

[Big Ben]

Completely random tip of the day:

Hiking through deep snow is terrific for weight loss and building general fitness! Have you a dog you can take for a half an hour's walk each day, Big Ben? I lost 5 lbs over a fortnight doing this!

I haven't been on that forum in a while. I got a lot of advice and support there when I was going through the merry land of My Horse Wants To Brutally Murder Me...I must pop back and say hi.

LOL, trouble is wading through deep snow does the repaired knee no good at all, trudged Ben through some the other day while we were having a discussion, and it nearly did me in, will just have to go twice as far in less deep snow!

It's great to be able to be out there doing things with them, and it is all part of getting fitter, been doing halter work with the babies, and ground work with Wills and the big guy, makes a person start to feel alive and enthusiastic again.

 

[YorksG]

Sadly most people give more credence to the people who say what they want to hear If Wagtails calculations of your weight are correct, then we would not allow you to ride my sisters Westphalian Kaltblud. We have a friend who is obese, who is only allowed to ride her, when her weight is below 18st and only for a maximum of 30 minutes, at walk.