Disgusted at behaviour of the hunt

[SusieT]

'f you knew they were meeting locally then it's only common sense to keep your horses in, your responsibility.' sorry-disagree. If a hunt in this day and age is going through someones land (i.e they are laying a trail) they need to have the courtesy to just pop a head in and say so. It's good manners that giv ea hunt followers. I would call the hunt up and demand an explanation personally. It might stop it happening again or at least get it so that they definitely call you/

 

[SusieT]

A landlord has no right to tell a tenant they must let something happen in their rented fields unless it is in the contract.
It sounds like the hunt were extremely in the wrong here, how many of you normally expect to jump into fields with horses in? How many of you, hunteres included would be happy for the hunt to jump into your fields with horses in? They could be pregnant broodmares or a very precious childs horse. It's an extremely risky thing to do, and the field master sounds like he should be shot for allowing it to happen!

'1) How curious that you are worried about loose and unridden horses galloping around a field. My horse does it at the drop of a hat, and has never damaged anything - thats what horses do, after all. It would never occur to me to tell other riders not to gallop in his vicinity. In my particular part of the country hunts go through fields with horses in them all the time without problems.
No but you might tell them not to gallop in your field with your horses?

 

[Yougetwhatyoudeserve]

3) You do sound rather as if you are a 'troll' - but I recognize it may simply be a case of communication failure. Lets face it, the stories making the newspapers usually start with something on the lines of "I was not anti-hunting until the hounds broke into my secure cattery and gobbled up six beautiful kittens after killing and eating my guard-dog" etc etc.


4) As has been suggested it is something you should take up with your local hunt - like most hunts they will fall over backwards to try to keep good relations with the inhabitants of their country.

Definitely not a troll just a run of the mill horsey owning person who was very concerned for her horses safety this morning. I have emailed the hunt and am waiting for their response. However after getting an earfull from our landlord about never being rude to the hunt I do wonder what sort of reply I will get.

Can I ask what people are expected to do if they don't have stables/barns to bring their horses into when the hunt are in the area? Our horses live out 24/7 but we are lucky enough to have stables to put them in if necessary. However where I lived before I just had a field, no facilities at all. What would the hunt have expected me to do then?

 

[cptrayes]

YGWYD isn't it incredible that some people are suggesting that this is your fault?

Of course if the hunt had been hunting legally then there is no way that they would have laid scent across your field without asking your permission. By definition, if the hounds were in your field they were either out of control or being allowed to hunt fox. There are three hunts nearish to me hunting fox, so I believe that you saw them hunting a fox. Either way, the field should not have followed into your loose horses.

The behaviour is outrageous. There are plenty of horse owners who do not agree with hunting fox, never mind that it's illegal. Why on earth should they have to get their horses in every day that a meet happens to be close enough to possibly come onto their land? Such arrogance is what makes non-hunting folk think we are a bunch of overprivileged toffs.

 

[Meandtheboys]

So, before this incident you were neither for or anti hunt, but now, because they entered your field you are beyond outraged that they are supposedly doing something illegal. What happened to you was unfortunate however, it does not give you the right to become Captain Anti-Hunt. Just go have a mince pie and enjoy the rest of Christmas. Your horse weren't hurt so why all the bother?

I think it would be a different matter if the hunt went through your horses!!!

I have worked at a few hunt yards and not an anti...............but a times they think they can do what they want and have total disregard to 'others' whether crossing land or on the public highway.

 

[millitiger]

If the story did happen as the OP has said, it is absolutely unacceptable for the hunt to behave in such a way and IMO unacceptable for people on here for trying to justify that behaviour and blame the OP.

ANY person with common sense would not jump into a field with loose horses, not only for the sake of those horses but also for your own horse and your own safety.

ANY hunt with any courtesy at all, would speak to the owner of the horses before laying a scent through the field.
We do not know whether the hunt perhaps told the landlord instead and he did not pass the message on but I would still expect them to take a different route or pull up when they realised there were horses loose in the field.

My horse is fine when the hunt are close (in the next field across from him, less than 10 yards away) and has had the hounds in his field before without major incidents but I would be absolutely raging if the mounted field decided to jump in with him as well!

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

YGWYD isn't it incredible that some people are suggesting that this is your fault?

Of course if the hunt had been hunting legally then there is no way that they would have laid scent across your field without asking your permission. By definition, if the hounds were in your field they were either out of control or being allowed to hunt fox. There are three hunts nearish to me hunting fox, so I believe that you saw them hunting a fox. Either way, the field should not have followed into your loose horses.

The behaviour is outrageous. There are plenty of horse owners who do not agree with hunting fox, never mind that it's illegal. Why on earth should they have to get their horses in every day that a meet happens to be close enough to possibly come onto their land? Such arrogance is what makes non-hunting folk think we are a bunch of overprivileged toffs.

/\/\/\ This

Surely those of you who are telling her she is over reacting etc can see how arrogant you all sound? It is exactly this sort of attitude which loses you support amongst the general population.

I am a tenant on a farm on a country estate that the Hunt comes through - they NEVER come near without letting us all know (the farm is also a livery yard) and would cetainly never dream of going through a field with horses in as they know they would lose valuable support and access to the land if they did. It is called common courtesy and respecting your 'neighbours'.

 

[cptrayes]

As to being told about illegal hunting I would in all honesty take such reports with a bag of salt.

You'd need half a Himalayan Rock Salt Mine to pour on that one Fiagai

I have in the past two years out drag hunting been invited on three "ex" fox pack meets. When I ask "are you hunting fox?" they reply "yes" and I explain that I do not fox hunt . I don't bother explaining that I also don't knowingly break the law.

If people were allowed to pick and choose what laws they thought were worth them obeying and which they thought weren't, we'd have total anarchy.

 

[amage]

Sounds more like the issue is with your landlord....if he gave permission he should have informed you

 

[sonjafoers]

OP I am a hunt subscriber and hunt regularly but I have to say I am on your side in this instance.

Our horses are left out when we hunt in our area and it always causes chaos, particularly autumn hunting when the horses are going mad and galloping around at breakfast time so can't be brought in! Even though I am very much pro hunt I can see the frustration it causes and we have had many a lost shoe through yahooing around due to hunt activity.

However the situation you describe is a touch more serious and I too would be livid if the field jumped onto our land knowing horses were turned out and so would our YO. I can totally sympathise with you although I would say in the Hunt's defence that it does seem an unusual situation.

Rather than email I would have telephoned the Hunt Secretary - a more personal approach may get you a better response and certainly seems more mannerly. It may be worth a follow up call tomorrow to explain your annoyance.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[gunnergundog]

Of course if the hunt had been hunting legally then there is no way that they would have laid scent across your field without asking your permission. By definition, if the hounds were in your field they were either out of control or being allowed to hunt fox.

As someone who works and trains gundogs (HPRs predominantly that in their ancestry have an element of foxhound) and who therefore has to consider scenting conditions, can I just say that although a trail may have been laid away from your land, the wind and other prevailing conditions can drive that scent 'off course' such that hounds will be maybe 400 plus yards away from the trail, working on a cheek wind. Whilst predominately ground scenting, hounds do also air scent and therefore are subject to nature leading them astray. Just something for you to consider.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Time that this thread was put to bed,its just going around in circles-

 

[cptrayes]

As someone who works and trains gundogs (HPRs predominantly that in their ancestry have an element of foxhound) and who therefore has to consider scenting conditions, can I just say that although a trail may have been laid away from your land, the wind and other prevailing conditions can drive that scent 'off course' such that hounds will be maybe 400 plus yards away from the trail, working on a cheek wind. Whilst predominately ground scenting, hounds do also air scent and therefore are subject to nature leading them astray. Just something for you to consider.

I have been drag hunting for four seasons on some pretty appalling scenting days, with two packs and three huntsmen and the hounds have always been able to be called off, sometimes with difficulty but they do obey.

One day earlier this season we all had a great laugh as we sat in a huge field and watched the hounds air scent in a circle as the wind swirled.

The moment they catch fox scent in a wood, though, which is every couple of weeks, they are called off and come back to the scent laid for them.

If this was an out of control fox pack by accident then maybe they need to take some lessons from drag huntsmen?

 

[sonjafoers]

I think the main issue was with the FIELD rather than the hounds

 

[gunnergundog]

The moment they catch fox scent in a wood, though, which is every couple of weeks, they are called off and come back to the scent laid for them.

If this was an out of control fox pack by accident then maybe they need to take some lessons from drag huntsmen?

But the trail laid IS fox scent/urine, so as far as hounds are concerned no difference whether the FOX laid the trail or a human did!!

Re calling off a trail, now that is a different matter all together.....

 

[lakesgirl]

As someone who works and trains gundogs (HPRs predominantly that in their ancestry have an element of foxhound) and who therefore has to consider scenting conditions, can I just say that although a trail may have been laid away from your land, the wind and other prevailing conditions can drive that scent 'off course' such that hounds will be maybe 400 plus yards away from the trail, working on a cheek wind. Whilst predominately ground scenting, hounds do also air scent and therefore are subject to nature leading them astray. Just something for you to consider.

I have to agree with this,as someone who has 2 scenthounds I never let them off lead on windy days as they could go way off the walk we are on,and also they are not able to find me as easily.

 

[cptrayes]

But the trail laid IS fox scent/urine, so as far as hounds are concerned no difference whether the FOX laid the trail or a human did!!

Re calling off a trail, now that is a different matter all together.....

The point was ill controlled hounds, it only makes the point stronger that the scent is the same. The hounds should respond to a command to hold hard.

But the other poster is correct. The field were most at error, following into a field with loose horses in it.

 

[OFG]

YGWYD isn't it incredible that some people are suggesting that this is your fault?

Of course if the hunt had been hunting legally then there is no way that they would have laid scent across your field without asking your permission. By definition, if the hounds were in your field they were either out of control or being allowed to hunt fox. There are three hunts nearish to me hunting fox, so I believe that you saw them hunting a fox. Either way, the field should not have followed into your loose horses.

The behaviour is outrageous. There are plenty of horse owners who do not agree with hunting fox, never mind that it's illegal. Why on earth should they have to get their horses in every day that a meet happens to be close enough to possibly come onto their land? Such arrogance is what makes non-hunting folk think we are a bunch of overprivileged toffs.

^ This

I find some of the replies on this thread amazingly arrogant. To say that you can't see a problem with a hunt field galloping through someone's field when their horses are turned out in it is disgusting.

It's this kind of attitude amoung some of the hunting faternity that gives hunts and hunting a bad name IMO.

Just because hunting is a tradition does not give you the god given right to ride where ever you blooming well please without thinking of others and their property.

OP - I would be angry and demanding an explanation and apology too. I would also be checking my contract with the landlord to see if there was anything detailed in there that stated the hunt had a right to hunt over the land you are now renting. I wouldn't put up with the LL getting angry with me for kicking up a fuss with the hunt over this incident.

 

[Alec Swan]

OP,

I suspect that there has been a regrettable, and for your local pack, an embarrassing, breakdown in communications.

Whilst horses will often fly about when they see hounds, if the mounted field jumped into the field where your horses were, then I would be staggered to hear that anyone would be quite so stupid, as to enter land where resident horses are loose. It would, or should be an unthinkable act. Few fields would be large enough to prevent the mounted field from skirting around the outside, and I'm at a loss to think how any rider, and do bare in mind that they are also horse owners, would put their own charges at risk by having loose horses around them.

If you are certain that the field which contained your horses, was actually entered by riders, and if you actually witnessed it, then contact the Master, without delay, and ask for an explanation. I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but your claim is stretching credulity.

If you are correct in what you say, then I'm lost for further words.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

....... I would also be checking my contract with the landlord to see if there was anything detailed in there that stated the hunt had a right to hunt over the land you are now renting. I wouldn't put up with the LL getting angry with me for kicking up a fuss with the hunt over this incident.

Whilst checking through the rental agreement, perhaps the OP may care to consider, that the landlord probably lets the field to them for the purpose of keeping horses, but it would be highly unlikely that there would be any exclusion from any other use to which the landlord wishes to put it, and that would include giving hounds a right of entry.

Alec.

 

[Yougetwhatyoudeserve]

OP,

I suspect that there has been a regrettable, and for your local pack, an embarrassing, breakdown in communications.

Whilst horses will often fly about when they see hounds, if the mounted field jumped into the field where your horses were, then I would be staggered to hear that anyone would be quite so stupid, as to enter land where resident horses are loose. It would, or should be an unthinkable act. Few fields would be large enough to prevent the mounted field from skirting around the outside, and I'm at a loss to think how any rider, and do bare in mind that they are also horse owners, would put their own charges at risk by having loose horses around them.

If you are certain that the field which contained your horses, was actually entered by riders, and if you actually witnessed it, then contact the Master, without delay, and ask for an explanation. I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but your claim is stretching credulity.

If you are correct in what you say, then I'm lost for further words.

Alec.

Very certain I'm afraid. I was shocked and surprised, even as I was watching events unfurl. We were standing on a bank which borders the field but even as the hounds jumped into the field, followed by a lone huntsman I was sure the following riders would go round and wouldn't be stupid enough or careless enough to go through the field where our horses were standing in plain sight. We saw another red jacket head round the top of the field on the other side of the hedge and thought the field would follow him. But nope, the front runners jumped in and headed down the field to the bottom corner, our horses started galloping, we yelled, were ignored, yelled again as more riders jumped in and then had to go down into the field to stop the next batch of riders doing the same. I would say about twenty riders went through our field before we managed to stop the rest and send them round. A detour which would have taken them an extra 30 seconds at most.

 

[Alec Swan]

Very certain I'm afraid. I was shocked and surprised, even as I was watching events unfurl. We were standing on a bank which borders the field but even as the hounds jumped into the field, followed by a lone huntsman I was sure the following riders would go round and wouldn't be stupid enough or careless enough to go through the field where our horses were standing in plain sight. We saw another red jacket head round the top of the field on the other side of the hedge and thought the field would follow him. But nope, the front runners jumped in and headed down the field to the bottom corner, our horses started galloping, we yelled, were ignored, yelled again as more riders jumped in and then had to go down into the field to stop the next batch of riders doing the same. I would say about twenty riders went through our field before we managed to stop the rest and send them round. A detour which would have taken them an extra 30 seconds at most.

In your shoes, I'd be on the 'phone to The Master, NOW. That is unthinkable, and I will agree, it does hunting no favours.

It's nothing to do with me, really, but I'll apologise, on their behalf.

Alec.

 

[Yougetwhatyoudeserve]

Thanks Alec

Have to admit I'm a bit reticent about phoning now I've had a 'dressing down' from our landlord's father. We love living here and would hate to have to leave because of one incident.

 

[lrequine]

I get along with all of the masters, whips, secretaries etc in the hunt I go on and I enjoy their company. Please understand that a master's day out hunting is not only for their pleasure but it's also a job, so they're undoubtedly focusing hence the 'no apology'. It's also human nature though, they probably didn't apologise out of embarassment if I'm honest! It could have just been lack of communication.

However following all this I do agree that some hunt staff can be arrogant and unnecessary, and most of the time it's where they've come from, how they've been brought up like most people. You just need to know how to deal with them. Trust me, I've wanted to say something to some masters when out hunting even though it'll never happen because you get sent home. Sorry to hear about the distress of your horses and I hope none of them were injured in the process.

 

[Judgemental]

We rent land in a certain hunt's country.

In order for your post to have the slightest element of veracity, you should state exactly which hunt you are referring to and exactly where this incident occured.

You are a foal - joined in December 2011, how are we to know that you are genuine?

Only cold hard facts will do!

At this precise moment without knowing to whom you are referring, I consider your originating and subsequent posts to be an attempt to damage the image of hunting generally.

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

Thanks Alec

Have to admit I'm a bit reticent about phoning now I've had a 'dressing down' from our landlord's father. We love living here and would hate to have to leave because of one incident.

Under the terms of your lease you are entitled to the 'quiet enjoyment' of the property and land which you rent - it is part of the standard conditions of a lease - the Hunt crossing your land without your knowledge constitutes a breach of this. I would speak to the Hunt Secretary - you are entitled to an apology.

 

[Judgemental]

In order for your post to have the slightest element of veracity, you should state exactly which hunt you are referring to and exactly where this incident occured.

You are a foal - joined in December 2011, how are we to know that you are genuine?

Only cold hard facts will do!

At this precise moment without knowing to whom you are referring, I consider your originating and subsequent posts to be an attempt to damage the image of hunting generally.

WELL?

 

[Yougetwhatyoudeserve]

In order for your post to have the slightest element of veracity, you should state exactly which hunt you are referring to and exactly where this incident occured.

You are a foal - joined in December 2011, how are we to know that you are genuine?

Only cold hard facts will do!

I used to be a regular contributer here, mostly in New Lounge, but it ended up eating away half of my life. I couldn't remember my log in details so reregistered. I don't really want to get sucked back into the forum but was so furious earlier today I couldn't think where else to vent!

I don't really want to say where we are as despite everything that happened today I don't want to get anyone in trouble and this is a public forum. I've emailed the hunt involved and will hopefully get a response tomorrow.

I can't make anyone believe me if they don't want to and I realise I must sound a bit trollish but honestly I'm not. Of course thats what a troll would say but I cannot do better than tell you I am reporting accurately what happened today.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

Maybe you don't want to say because someone on here might have been out and may disagree with your version of events? I agree totally that to jump into a field of loose horses is unacceptable. Even if it was just the huntsman and whip I would still find this unacceptable. Far better for hunstman to get off and go on foot to get hounds back.

I always card both landlords and tenants when we hunt. However, it can be tricky when the landlord wants us and the tenants are not so keen. However, surely common sense must prevail - if you know the hunt are in the area and your horses may get upset then bring them in.

I would certainly be ringing the Master today. Can't understand why you haven't.

 

[Allover]

In order for your post to have the slightest element of veracity, you should state exactly which hunt you are referring to and exactly where this incident occured.

You are a foal - joined in December 2011, how are we to know that you are genuine?

Only cold hard facts will do!

At this precise moment without knowing to whom you are referring, I consider your originating and subsequent posts to be an attempt to damage the image of hunting generally.

Have you actually read this thread through or are you just using the forum to come on and be rude to someone because you are having a bad day and need someone to be rude to?