rubysmum
Well-Known Member
If you want a pet that you can keep in an enclosed, straw box, get a rabbit
Do you agree with keeping horses in 24/7?
- Thread starter loverly
- Start date
meesha
Well-Known Member
not read any other replies but if you kept a dog or cat in an equivalent (for their size) cage or box 23 hours a day only to take them out for one hour there would be outrage !
For anyone thinking of caging their horses for most of the day I would suggest going to stand in there themselves for a few hours to see how it feels !!
For anyone thinking of caging their horses for most of the day I would suggest going to stand in there themselves for a few hours to see how it feels !!
KVH
Well-Known Member
No, certainly not.
Wagtail
Horse servant
My Cushings mare has sadly just come down with lami again despite being on a bare paddock. I have moved her into the sand turnout where she is now 24/7 with soaked hay and straw, danilon and acp. Unfortunately, after 5 days she is not much better. If I have to stable her 24/7 at this time of year, I would consider it mental torture for her even though she is pretty good at accepting box rest. It was not so bad in the winter when she always had at least one horse near her for company. If my horse cannot have some sort of quality of life, and I would class being in 24/7 for more than a few weeks as poor quality, then it would break my heart, but I would PTS.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
Interesting post and replies. My horse, had he been in the hands of most of the posters on this thread, would be dead.
He went into a small barn on 25th July 2011, seriously injured. He came out in mid June 2012 to start rehab which has not gone well and he is now in a tiny paddock with a large shelter and a view of the yard.
Prior to his injury, the horse was competing at top level, spending a lot of time travelling, competing and being kept very busy.
Throughout this period of time he has not box walked, cribbed, been mardy or difficult. He has put up with umpteen vet visits, tests, scans etc without so much as an ear back. He coped well and is always pleased to see me and everyone else who had input into his care.
All horses are different and no doubt, many would not have coped like my horse has, but it a sweeping comment to condem them to death without giving them a fighting chance to adapt to being in 24/7.
This particular horse lived in on the continent and then he lived in with the people I bought him from. The reason for this was he was too valuable to risk turnout. After landing with me in 2004 he had to be taught how to eat grass and how to enjoy life in the field. It was pitiful to watch a 10 year old horse remain glued to the gate for days before he found the confidence to go further out into the paddocks. He stood and watched his field companion picking grass with total puzzlement on his face. It took the best part of a year for him to adapt to daily turnout and he regularly got stressed if it rained or was too hot and all hell broke loose if a fly landed on him.
Ironically his career ending injury happened in the field. I have no doubt the years of living in before I had him have helped him cope with confinement he is experiencing now. Deciding if a horse is happy is subjective and human feelings are used to make this decision. I will leave you to decide if this horse should be alive or not, but the horse's temperament/manners and outlook has not changed regardless of whether he was stood in the international arena at HOY's or stood in his barn.
Has anybody thought about the army horses, they live in most of the year. They also have plenty of work and an annual holiday at grass.
He went into a small barn on 25th July 2011, seriously injured. He came out in mid June 2012 to start rehab which has not gone well and he is now in a tiny paddock with a large shelter and a view of the yard.
Prior to his injury, the horse was competing at top level, spending a lot of time travelling, competing and being kept very busy.
Throughout this period of time he has not box walked, cribbed, been mardy or difficult. He has put up with umpteen vet visits, tests, scans etc without so much as an ear back. He coped well and is always pleased to see me and everyone else who had input into his care.
All horses are different and no doubt, many would not have coped like my horse has, but it a sweeping comment to condem them to death without giving them a fighting chance to adapt to being in 24/7.
This particular horse lived in on the continent and then he lived in with the people I bought him from. The reason for this was he was too valuable to risk turnout. After landing with me in 2004 he had to be taught how to eat grass and how to enjoy life in the field. It was pitiful to watch a 10 year old horse remain glued to the gate for days before he found the confidence to go further out into the paddocks. He stood and watched his field companion picking grass with total puzzlement on his face. It took the best part of a year for him to adapt to daily turnout and he regularly got stressed if it rained or was too hot and all hell broke loose if a fly landed on him.
Ironically his career ending injury happened in the field. I have no doubt the years of living in before I had him have helped him cope with confinement he is experiencing now. Deciding if a horse is happy is subjective and human feelings are used to make this decision. I will leave you to decide if this horse should be alive or not, but the horse's temperament/manners and outlook has not changed regardless of whether he was stood in the international arena at HOY's or stood in his barn.
Has anybody thought about the army horses, they live in most of the year. They also have plenty of work and an annual holiday at grass.
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
Mine appeared happy on 12 months box rest with individual turnout in a tiny outdoor pen. However the fact that even several years later she hates being stabled indicates she wasn't. Overnight in the worst of winter is the only time she likes it now, & tolerates an hour or so if its necessary otherwise. And at first my obedient, chilled, easy to do pony refused to go in a stable at all for months after returning to real turnout. My friend used to do an hours round trip 2x a day to keep her old pony living out in a non grass paddock with her two others on diy elsewhere, rather than have him fully stabled.
Re rabbits- I won't have those or guinea pigs, as my small lawn would mean a hutch & a hutch sized run, which is no way of life.
Re rabbits- I won't have those or guinea pigs, as my small lawn would mean a hutch & a hutch sized run, which is no way of life.
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
An animal does not necessarily display stereotypical behaviours in response to isolation from its kind and the reduction of its ability to move around, to indulge in herd behaviour, neither does it necessarily explode, it may simply shut down its responses. This is most likely to be the case when people believe that the animal has become aclimatized to its situation, as it has by then learnt that it cannot influence its surroundings. I do not believe that any mamal other than humans ever 'want to be dead'. I am unaware of any studies which show suicidality in any species other than humans. In the case you describe, the animal already has a life threatening illness. IMO the price of symptom management is too high a price for the animal to pay.
We may need to agree to disagree on this one
Agree with this.
I was faced with this decision once. My vet prescribed for my horse of a lifetime, either 24 hr stabling or euthanasia.
The thought of my beautiful mare standing day after a day merely existing in a stable was never an option. If she could no longer graze and socialize in her free time, then she was better off dead.
My vet was relieved to be able to agree.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Can we clarify whether we are talking about working animals or not here.?
I hope no-one in their right mind would consent to keep a horse in a stable that was completely unable to be exercised?
I hope no-one in their right mind would consent to keep a horse in a stable that was completely unable to be exercised?
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
Good point, but what level of exercise is acceptable ? For the average hobby owner cannot work a horse at the same level as a professional. Is 40 minutes schooling a few times a week and a weekend hack/competition offering quality of life for an animal unable to roam, graze or socialize ? Or one that will never be turned away in company for summer holidays ?
EimerR
Well-Known Member
no but sometimes its a necessary evil, you cant avoid
EimerR
Well-Known Member
My turn out is currently under water, so my fella will be in for the week, but he gets hacked out for 2 hours a day and has 30 minutes in hand grazing mininum so I know its not an ideal sitution but its the best I can do
Ibblebibble
Well-Known Member
no i don't agree, mine are out 24/7 and that is how they evolved to live.
The longest i have kept a horse in with no turnout is 5 days, 17hh mare in a 15'x15' box, by the end of those 5 days her weaving had got so bad she was banging her neck on the door frame and i was more worried about injury from that than about the abcess which had forced the box rest. If she ever came down with a condition which meant she could never be turned out again i would have no hesitation in having her PTS, it would break my heart but knowing how she doesn't cope i would not inflict 24/7 stabling on her.
overwintering in a big open barn is not the same as stabling and i don't have a problem with that, as long as the barn is not overcrowded.
I know horses can be 'conditioned' to accept 24/7 stabling and if it's the only life they have ever known then they are not going to miss turnout, doesn't make it right IMO but i can't control how others keep their horses.
The longest i have kept a horse in with no turnout is 5 days, 17hh mare in a 15'x15' box, by the end of those 5 days her weaving had got so bad she was banging her neck on the door frame and i was more worried about injury from that than about the abcess which had forced the box rest. If she ever came down with a condition which meant she could never be turned out again i would have no hesitation in having her PTS, it would break my heart but knowing how she doesn't cope i would not inflict 24/7 stabling on her.
overwintering in a big open barn is not the same as stabling and i don't have a problem with that, as long as the barn is not overcrowded.
I know horses can be 'conditioned' to accept 24/7 stabling and if it's the only life they have ever known then they are not going to miss turnout, doesn't make it right IMO but i can't control how others keep their horses.
Lil Ferg
Well-Known Member
This
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I personally think that the tiny "individual turnout" paddocks that I am seeing everywhere are probably at least as bad as stabling. At least when a horse is stabled its owner knows it needs some exercise. How many people are there keeping their horses in miniscule individual turnout who don't ride the horse because "it's been turned out", I wonder?
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
"Conditioning" implies that the horse's behaviour changes over time as it becomes accustomed to a life lived mainly in a box.
Many horses whose owners need to stable them full time have behaviour that does not appear to change over time and who appear to be perfectly happy to live in a box with plenty of food, exercise, and activity visible on a yard (some will like quiet better).
Personally, I'd prefer to see a horse in the stable, with a decent hour or more's exercise, than I would see them huddled in a field in the pouring rain with their feet buried in mud, I suspect many of the horses would agree with me
To read some of the posts on here, 90% of Olympic horses, considered by their owners to be too valuable to be turned out, would be better off dead
Hen
Well-Known Member
No, if they are not moved (exercised) more than once in 24 hours; yes, if they are.
Joint movement and circulation are critical to horse health physically and mentally, simply mowing a field isn't.
Joint movement and circulation are critical to horse health physically and mentally, simply mowing a field isn't.
stencilface
High upon a hillside
No I don't, sadly injured horse is now on box rest again, within 4 months of finishing his last round of box rest for a different injury. I could cry
Hen
Well-Known Member
That's a very good point. My horses have individual turnout and their paddocks are uncharacteristically huge for such an arrangement, but I sat for 30 mins and watched one horse today and she took fewer steps in that time in her paddock than she would in a stable. I simply have the breed and type of horse that doesn't equate turnout with exercise. It's all about eating. And they are eating the 'wrong stuff' for their breed/type/environmental conditioning. So turnout is a pretty dangerous occupation for them. So for sure, if I have any concerns about how they are looking and moving, I am more than happy to have them stand in and go twice daily on the walker and I will exercise them everyday, rather than run the risk of having them run into health problems simply because they are 'out'.
FreddiesGal
Well-Known Member
Ibblebibble
Well-Known Member
i would consider them conditioned if they then can not cope with being turned out, the behaviour changes show when you try to return them to what most people consider a 'normal' life for horses. They have been conditioned to accept that being stabled continuously is a normal state.
i don't think that all stabled horses are better off dead, i may not agree with that kind of routine for a naturally free roaming herd animal but i accept that other people find it totally acceptable and some horses probably do to. Just not mine, and as they are mine i can keep them in a way that suits both me and them.
i don't think that all stabled horses are better off dead, i may not agree with that kind of routine for a naturally free roaming herd animal but i accept that other people find it totally acceptable and some horses probably do to. Just not mine, and as they are mine i can keep them in a way that suits both me and them.
deicinmerlyn
Well-Known Member
No.
amandaco2
Well-Known Member
unless for medical reasons i personally think its cruel to keep them entirely in all the time....
Irishbabygirl
Well-Known Member
No - completely unatual and bloody expensive!
Copperpot
Well-Known Member
No !!
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
Re Olympic horses and turn out, I can't speak about the current ones, but can catagoricaly state that past ones have had turn out. Show jumpers turned out on fields that would allow them to think that the Derby Bank was a gentle slope!
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
I have a Westphalian mare who spent most of her life on the Continent, she doesn't like weather, which is a bit awkward as we live at the top of the Pennines and get a lot of weather, but she likes staying in on her own even less.
What she really likes is company which I understand in what is missing from many horses' lives in Europe. The only circumstance I can imagine keeping a horse in 24/7 would be in a covered yard system where the horses can interact in a natural way. I loathe seeing fields divided up into individual 'paddocks', where horses can't touch each other and wouldn't want to impose that kind of regime on any horse, under cover or outside.
SO1
Well-Known Member
My poor pony who normally lives out 24/7 in a huge field got kicked by one of his fieldmates and is now on box rest as he has broken his splint bone. He is going to find it very tough as he does not like being in and so is at a specialist rehab centre so he can be in a block with others on box rest so he is not on in on his own. The block over looks an outdoor school so the horses have things to watch but it is calm as well. They get regular grooming, hay three times a day, feed twice a day, mucked out twice a day etc. Everything is set up to make box rest as tolerable as possible they can even have massage and acupunture too.
I do not agree with horse being kept in 24/7 when there is no medical need but I would not be PTS horses that have to more than a few weeks box rest if that box rest means that they can then go back out in the field again.
It is tricky as most accidents do occur in the fields so to prevent box rest should people turn out individually in small paddocks so horses dont get kicked or run about so much?
Yes my pony is on horrible box rest but it won't prevent me from turning him back out again in herd turnout in a big field again.
I do not agree with horse being kept in 24/7 when there is no medical need but I would not be PTS horses that have to more than a few weeks box rest if that box rest means that they can then go back out in the field again.
It is tricky as most accidents do occur in the fields so to prevent box rest should people turn out individually in small paddocks so horses dont get kicked or run about so much?
Yes my pony is on horrible box rest but it won't prevent me from turning him back out again in herd turnout in a big field again.
Dancing Queen
Well-Known Member
el_Snowflakes
Well-Known Member
No, but I do believe some people are more suited to owning hamsters
Shutterbug
Well-Known Member
Not unless its for medical reasons