Docking ban, Desparate news for working dogs in Scotland!

[DiNorth]

Thought you would all be intelligent enough to stay on the original topic. I hold my hands up & admit I made a lighthearted comment re. MilisCer. But I never expected that to that to swamp the original topic. And I can only believe that MiLisCer has a wealth of canine knowledge & is intelligent & responsible enough, to continue to respond & express his views & experience on the original topic. I also hope others will also direct their time in the same way.
Re. Being a light-hearted bunch, I’m all for that. But I’m afraid a subject concerning animal welfare is something I take very seriously. Don’t mind a joke, but not when it detracts totally from the main topic.

 

[MiLisCer]

Thanks Di, like you I have been around working dogs (And for that matter horses) all my life - I now make my living from working dogs, having retired from the rat race last year.

I have probably (And I say probably) had more Springers through my hands in the last 12 months than all the other contributors to this thread put together (With one exception - but she knows who she is)

I would never expose an undocked springer or cocker to proper gundog work - now I dont mean knocking about in a few brambles for fun, I mean proper gundog work that they were bred for, hard cover hitting dogs, doing what they do best.

I will openly invite any person on this forum to come out and watch a proper spaniel doing what it was bred for - they can either see them shot over or we will fly the hawks over them for them to observe how a proper spaniel treats cover.

At the end of the day they will see how hard the dogs have worked and hopefully appreciate after seeing that and talking to us, why they need docked tails.

I am NOT in favour of cosmetic docking for any breed or reason, this includes show dogs, I am strictly in favour of the docking of working dogs.

Mike

 

[Enfys]

It has been a good debate, I think most people have had their say by now.

Except for me, and as I don't have docked breeds I am staying out of it, where I am docking, de-clawing and ear trimming still appears to be legal. I'd buy a docked dog if it had already been done, but never one with trimmed ears. Now that IS totally unnecessary don't you think?

On a purely moral issue here, why is it OK to band lambs tails but not dogs? I don't hear anyone leaping to their defence on the grounds of cruelty to lambs. Even if they are destined for the dinner plate would the discomfort not be the same regardless of species?

 

[Tia]

Deep and dense forested woodland which has never had human beings over it for at least 100 years, if ever! Put it this way, I cannot get into the undergrowth in the majority of my woods!

She flushes deer, partridges, pheasants, coyotes, wolves, wild turkey ..... thankfully no black bears to date though!

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if they are destined for the dinner plate would the discomfort not be the same regardless of species?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I have no problem whatsoever with banding....whether it be for a pup, lamb or a sarcoid. I have no issue with the "act" of docking young animals.

 

[MiLisCer]

[ QUOTE ]
Deep and dense forested woodland which has never had human beings over it for at least 100 years, if ever! Put it this way, I cannot get into the undergrowth in the majority of my woods!

She flushes deer, partridges, pheasants, coyotes, wolves, wild turkey ..... thankfully no black bears to date though!

[/ QUOTE ]

so she is actually free hunting then and not a working dog?

Mike

 

[Sooty]

Aha! Mike - so a man then!

I thought I spotted that earlier...

 

[Sooty]

No, I don't condone docking even for working dogs - I truly don't believe that it is necessary. Oooh, bundle anyone...?

 

[Tia]

She flushes for me - that is her job - to clear the path of critters so to allow safe passage for me and my clients. Although it has back-fired a couple of times.......not all wolves run away!

 

[Tia]

That was my point though - the act of it is no big deal to me, it is the life afterwards that I have the problem with.

 

[severnmiles]

But Mike, its not only springers that are 'working dogs', what about working terriers?

 

[sojeph]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I don't condone docking even for working dogs - I truly don't believe that it is necessary. Oooh, bundle anyone...?

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[MiLisCer]

do you know why terriers were originally docked?

I do not condone the docking of terriers - they are no longer used as fighting dogs, tails on earth dogs do not get damaged.

Incidentally - I do NOT condone the docking of the HPR breeds either.

Mike

 

[GinaB]

*whispers* what does HPR stand for?

 

[jj4y]

HPR = Hunt Point Retrieve, its a gundog group.

Examples are the german wirehaired pointer, weimeraner, viszla etc

(Not a Horse + Pony Retriever

)

 

[Sooty]

Yes, I take your point. The act may or may not be painful, we cannot tell, although I suspect it is not totally painfree - the tail is after all an extension of the spine. It is the way it affects the dog for the rest of its life that I take issue with.

 

[Sooty]

Is that a British term?

 

[GinaB]

Ahhh thank you. I tend to just refer to them by breed!

The likes of those you have listed though should surely be docked? More likely to injure themselves as their tails are long, quite thin.

 

[severnmiles]

Just because you don't condone it doesn't mean anything, Sooty doesn't condone the docking of any working dog. To me any working dog where they are at risk of injuring their tail (which yes could well happen in an earth) should be docked.

 

[Sooty]

Gaaaaargh! So now we have to dock thin tails as well as hairy tails!

 

[MiLisCer]

NO, the way the HPRs face/work cover, I am of the opinion, they do not face significant risk to their tails and therefore do not require docking!!

Sooty - in what way does a docked tail affect the rest of the dogs life? other than a working dog can have a pain free time and not need serious surgery under GA to repair/remove a damaged tail?

Mike

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Ahhh thank you. I tend to just refer to them by breed!

The likes of those you have listed though should surely be docked? More likely to injure themselves as their tails are long, quite thin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, whether working in heather or in the house excitedly thrashing the wall with his/her tail...

 

[GinaB]

I don't think I worded that one quite right!

I haven't watched pointer type work, we only keep labs and springers. But yes, I agree with Severnmiles those likely to injure themselves are better off docked.

 

[MiLisCer]

ROTFL - working in heather is not going to damage a dogs tail! when was the last time you were on a grouse moor?

But it does rub their bellies raw - hence mine get covered in vasaline prior to them working on the grouse moor.

Mike

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
ROTFL - working in heather is not going to damage a dogs tail! when was the last time you were on a grouse moor?

But it does rub their bellies raw - hence mine get covered in vasaline prior to them working on the grouse moor.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL @ Mike!

you are funny, fair play.

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
ROTFL - working in heather is not going to damage a dogs tail! when was the last time you were on a grouse moor?


[/ QUOTE ]

*whispers* to save you from embarrassment check out this link http://www.cdb.org/gsp.htm bless you.

now wasn't it you who said the docking of GSP's was not necessary?

 

[Tia]

Sorry to change the subject here for a moment - but Mike, your house is sooooo cute!!

 

[jj4y]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ROTFL - working in heather is not going to damage a dogs tail! when was the last time you were on a grouse moor?

But it does rub their bellies raw - hence mine get covered in vasaline prior to them working on the grouse moor.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL @ Mike!

you are funny, fair play.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's so funny about that?

One of my labs did a day on a grouse moor last season and ended up with raw nipples...i'll definately try the vaseline on her belly next time

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ROTFL - working in heather is not going to damage a dogs tail! when was the last time you were on a grouse moor?

But it does rub their bellies raw - hence mine get covered in vasaline prior to them working on the grouse moor.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL @ Mike!

you are funny, fair play.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's so funny about that?

One of my labs did a day on a grouse moor last season and ended up with raw nipples...i'll definately try the vaseline on her belly next time

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL'ing his first comment. Why would I laugh out loud at dogs in pain.

 

[MiLisCer]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to change the subject here for a moment - but Mike, your house is sooooo cute!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. Been nosey have you? now you know all about me, you will see I have enough to back up my statements.

Mike