Don't forget to watch Countryfile tonight - Horses and Cars

[HBB]

I've emailed them too. I am not happy with the conflicting thoughts of their chosen random "expert". The BHS are working damn hard to get a well advised campaign out to the general public and all their hard work has been pi$$ed into the wind with one throw away comment!

 

[Junebug44]

What a shame they ended it with the question should horses be banned from the roads. Absolutely no coverage of the fact that bridleways are being removed.

I never understand this! Horses were on the roads first, then cars and then bikes. It's not like we're asking to ride on motorways! I ride on twisting country roads designed for horses and gentle tootling at 30mph - except now it's all cars barrelling around the corner at 60 mph!

 

[colly66]

Was great to put it on but they should of put these points in too.

I have emailed them this....

I wasn't happy with the piece, no mention of how horses are supposed to get to bridle paths if you ban horses from the road . Also if there was more bridle paths to ride we would not have to go on the roads as much, but it seems to be these are getting less as more and more of them are shut! no mention of this.
Also the risk of death to the horse and rider yes but you didn't mention the possible death to the car driver if a horse lands on the bonnet and puts it's legs through the windshield, if they pass to fast .
That may of made drivers realise it is their lives at risk too, so passing wide and slow is in their benefit .
Thank you for putting this on but you should have put these above comments in in my opinion
Thanks
Collette

 

[Pinkvboots]

I don't know why the woman at the end kept going on about horse riders being polite and saying thank you when drivers stop or slow down, that's all well and good but half of drivers don't slow down and are bloody dangerous these are the drivers that are the issue, only the other day I was waving and asking a driver to stop but he just kept coming and because I snuck into a gateway through fear of the car upsetting my horse and him not stopping he just stuck his foot down and whizzed past, my horse really leapt and I was lucky not to end up on the electric fence.

and all this happened on a private track at the back of my house not even a public road what hope do we have.

 

[Orangehorse]

Not a good piece at all. Agree with all your points above!

 

[windseywoo]

I think most of you are being slightly harsh on countryfile. At least they have reported it as a going concern for horse riders on a programme that has millions of viewers, maybe quite a few who have no idea how to overtake a horse on a road. I think quite a few of the camera images shown, show what riders are having to put up with on our roads these days and felt very sorry for the lady who's horse died. We already know what the BHS are doing in regards to road campaigns, however more education needs to be done regarding people who have no normal contact with horses and on a road could find them quite intimidating. We can also make our own lives easier, by saying thank you and maybe smiling, does it really take that much effort, just so that white van man might actually slow down for the next horse as well, instead of thinking ungrateful sod I'll run them off the road.
I've had work collegues say to me when I put up my BHS 15mph sign in the staff room, that they've had people on horses 3 a breast just not move over and even when the person turned off their engine didn't say thank you and they live in the country, yet we want everyone to be nice to us, get real. We don't give ourselves a good reputation and saying horses were around before cars is no excuse. We need to do everything we can to make ourselves as safe as possible if we go out on the roads, but I do think there should be higher penalties for drivers that actually kill a horse on the road. In our lifetime there could be a day were someone in parliament decides that horses should be banned from the public highway, you only need all the "Jeremy Clarkson's " in the country to sign a petition and then we'll all be stuck in our fields, what a boring day that will be and I for one will probably give up riding.
I have emailed countryfile with my thoughts on the piece as a few of the other posters have done, this is an opportunity to get our message across to a wider audience, lets not waste it.

 

[lannerch]

I think they were spot on about pointing out how many riders today do not encourage cars to slow down when they fail to thank those that do.
No wonder so many of jo public think horse riders arrogant , where I live there is a big livery yard , I always slow down for horses I rarely get thanked, if I did not know better I wouldn't slow down next time, but I do so I still do.

I also think in most cases riding two abreast is dangerous, as is cycling two abreast , it encourages cars to take risk in their quest to get by, it also will give support to the ridiculous suggestion horses should be banned from the roads , as like failing to thank and be courteous it alienates Car drivers .

 

[Suechoccy]

What's the email please?

The piece could have done with a lot more depth:
"Why are horseriders on the roads?"

Answer:
1. Permissive and unrecorded routes being lost due to housing development or locked gates because of (fear of or actual) criminal activities
2. CROW Act means as from 2021 no more historical routes can be added. Huge backlog of routes to be researched and no resource to do them. Huge backlog of submitted DMMOs and no resource at local highways authority to work through them. 1000s of routes will be lost.
3. People who aren't in the know will visit the countryside and assume those nice mown grass strips around arable fields are for horseriders (and dogwalkers). They are, in the majority, not. The government's setaside/stewardship scheme pays the farmers to mow the land and for most schemes NOT to allow the public use of it.
4.Existing bridleways network totally uncohesive, very fragmented, doesn't join up.
5. Riders cannot use public footpaths. Cyclists use public footpaths and generally a blind eye is turned to them. They can lift their bikes over the kissing gates on public footpaths. Public footpaths are a cohesive, joined-up national network, used officially by walkers, unofficially by cyclists. Horseriders lose out badly as cannot use these routes.

I could probably think of another 10 reasons or so too but it's bedtime..

 

[Sandstone1]

Saying we or cyclists shouldn't ride two abreast is wrong sometimes it's the safest thing to do.
However, in this area cyclists frequently ride three or more abreast and don't move over.
They also don't thank drivers, why do riders always get the flack when cyclists who are also vulnerable road users often behave much worse.

 

[lannerch]

Saying we or cyclists shouldn't ride two abreast is wrong sometimes it's the safest thing to do.
However, in this area cyclists frequently ride three or more abreast and don't move over.
They also don't thank drivers, why do riders always get the flack when cyclists who are also vulnerable road users often behave much worse.

Don't agree unless the horse on the inside is green and needs confidence.
I think it's a lot more dangerous for example horse two abreast, after a corner car suddenly comes across it, ok car going too fast has no where to escape to has to slam on or hit horse on outside! Also if horse on outside shys ( no horse is bomb proof ) it will shy into the oncoming traffic going the other way.

 

[Procrastination]

I have just sent off this....

Thank you so much for your article on horses on the roads, as a rider myself I hope it will go a small way to educating drivers about how to respond when they see a horse.

I can't help but feel however that some extremely important points were missed, and to end the piece by asking 'should horse riders be banned from the roads altogether?' was frankly irresponsible. A lot of horse riders already suffer verbal abuse from drivers, being shouted at and told we shouldn't be on the roads. By asking raising this question as you did you are suggesting to the people who already believe horses shouldn't be on the road that it is a viable option, adding fuel to their fires. You asked this question but did not put across any of the reasons why horse riders MUST use the roads. The bridleways network in England and Wales in extremely poor, with routes being closed all the time. The bridleways we do have are often short and the network is very fragmented so in the majority of places in England and Wales bridleways can only make up a small part of a ride. Added to this is the fact that many of our historic rights of way will be lost forever if they are not added to the CROW by 2021, there is already a huge backlog of routes to be added and limited resources available so it is inevitable that many will not be added in time.

I would also like to point out that your expert from the BHS gave some rather conflicting advice.
Riding two abreast in some circumstances is necessary, for example when taking out a younger horse. It is common practice to have the younger horse in the inside with the more experienced horse on the outside. Sadly I expect there will now be viewers who think it is never acceptable for horse riders to ride two abreast as this was not properly reported - it is written in the Highway Code so I am surprised you did not make this point.

I do hope you will do a follow up piece which raises some of these points, particularly about why riders use the roads in the first place. We would all love to have more off road hacking but it is simply not something which is available to the majority of us.

Kind regards


I would implore you all to do the same if you feel we have been slightly misrepresented. Hopefully through people power we can encourage them to do a follow up!

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Wasn't overly impressed by it. The woman didn't explain the fact that sometimes it is appropriate to ride 2 abreast or the reasons why riders are forced to ride on roads (lack of bridleways etc) I also get a bit fed up of the attitude that riders should express gratitutude to passing traffic. I always do but at the same time I strongly believe a lack of manners does not give someone the right to endanger someone's life. I give cyclists plenty of room, wait at blind bends etc & I don't no expect a thankyou for not causing an accident.

 

[meleeka]

I haven't watched it yet, but would like to add that passing wide and slow shouldn't be seen as jist politeness to the rider, but the safest thing for the car driver. Therefore it's in their interest to do so whether the rider thanks them or not. People might not think that horses should be on the road (and it sounds like there was no explanation for why we risk our lives by doing so) but drivers need to be aware of the risk to them. It's not a 'them and us' situation, everyone should care about keeping themselves as safe as possible. I would always thank drivers but they are slowing down as much for their own safety as mine surely.

 

[pansymouse]

I am afraid to say that there are a sizable number of riders that don't help themselves or other riders when using the roads. Firstly wearing hi viz every time you ride on the road is not up for debate - just do it, there are no excuses; drivers are much more likely to act reasonably if they see in plenty of time. Riding two abreast should not be routine - keep it for protecting an especially vulnerable horse/rider just like the Highway Code permits. Thanking considerate drivers should be the norm. If drivers are not considerate a thumbs down is enough; screaming like an banshee will upset you and your horse far more than them.

I was stalked by a driver with a pathological hatred of horses for well over a year - he deliberately put he and my horse in danger every time we met. I reported every incident to the police and they dealt effectively with it. I didn't engage with him; I focused on protecting myself and my horse - the police said I handled the situation entirely correctly. It was in the days before hat cams or I certainly would have had one to supply the police with the evidence they needed to act earlier and more forcefully.

 

[Merlod]

Tbh I don’t think it was too unreasonable, I didn’t like that they kept mentioning “should horses be banned from the roads” which is just going to be validation for people who already think that. I liked that they mentioned equally what drivers and riders should do; drivers should slow to 15 to approach, overtake and drive away from horses and that they should leave at least two meters, and that riders should wear hi viz, not ride two abreast (I’ve been riding on the roads since I was 13 and have never had it necessary to ride two abreast, though I know that in extreme circumstances it may be necessary) and that riders should thank drivers.

I am aware many riders don’t think they should have to thank drivers, but equally drivers don’t legally have to slow to 15 or pass 2m wide – it’s all about courtesy and I will continue to be courteous and thank drivers because hopefully every pleasant experience they have with horses will encourage them to be patient with the next horse they pass.

 

[fuzzymooch]

The 'polite' woman annoyed me. I wear hi viz, I'm polite and thank drivers that pass nicely, I try to pull in if I can to let people past, I have had lessons, have a pretty non spookable big guy, I try to only be on the road if I have too. Non of this stopped a moron in a white van from speeding past us on a blind bend the other day! Really polite woman you can be as nice as can be but if the person behind the wheel is a Muppet who hasn't got any common sense there will still be accidents.

I do agree with the bit about the road safety test, I took in in pony club and it was really well done and useful.

Re road tax. I pay it. I can't drive and ride at the same time so I figure I'm covered. I know not all horse riders drive but that was my argument the last time someone said it.

 

[stormox]

Cyclists dont pay road tax! I thank drivers that slow down, stop or are extra careful, normal ones who dont do anything, just drive past normally I dont see any need to thank- what for?

 

[SaddleUpSin]

It was a great article until the silly "opinion" of one lady, she may have undone a lot of good sound advice.

This!!

 

[Procrastination]

The road tax thing is just a complete non arguement. For starters road tax doesn't exist - it's vehicle emission tax hence why those with very new and fuel efficient vehicles don't have to pay it! The vast majority of horse riders pay council tax, I know I do! A proportion of our council tax is spent on the roads so as far as I'm concerned I am well within my rights to use the roads. The only people who don't pay council tax are the youngsters who ride but I'm sure their parents pay it, and they will in turn pay it when they move out.

 

[Merrymoles]

I haven't seen it and won't email in until I have but in terms of riding two abreast, we do it all the time. My horse is happier on the outside of his hacking companion and will always place himself there by choice so most of the time we quite happily stay two abreast. We do go back to single file for bends and, if a narrow road, to allow drivers to pass but, as we keep a very close eye on the traffic, we anticipate cars and move accordingly.

Generally I believe we are more visible than single file against the hedge (though we both wear high vi anyway) and we are always courteous to drivers. We have found that people do slow more to pass two horses than single file horses and, therefore, will continue to do it. I would never knowingly put my horse in danger but anticipating what drivers might, or might not do, is an important skill in riding on the roads and we do need to stay very aware at all times. We are the queens of big smiles and cheery waves to anyone who even lifts their foot of the accelerator. We have no choice but to ride on the road and none of our (short) bridleways are linked to each other.

However I have never forgotten being given a complete gob full by a driver who pulled in to do so when I was riding my then four-year-old on the road for the very first time with a sensible companion on my offside. The driver was incandescent but, unfortunately so enraged that he jumped back in his car and zoomed off before either of us could even speak. We were on a wide straight country road in broad daylight. That driver will always be my prime example of why some people will always think they know best and never want to hear anyone's reasons.

Going now before I start to rant about the cyclists out in packs in thick fog on Saturday with no flipping lights at all...

 

[hc123]

Don't agree unless the horse on the inside is green and needs confidence.
I think it's a lot more dangerous for example horse two abreast, after a corner car suddenly comes across it, ok car going too fast has no where to escape to has to slam on or hit horse on outside! Also if horse on outside shys ( no horse is bomb proof ) it will shy into the oncoming traffic going the other way.

But surely if you are a car driver going round a corner on a road that isn't wide enough for your car plus two horses abreast then you should have already slowed right down in anticipation of meeting another car coming towards you on the corner? Two horses abreast take up no more room than a car. When riding two abreast we will always be aware if there is an oncoming car when heading into a corner and drop back into single file, but drivers should also take more responsibility. Same applies for cars that speed up and over hills when they can't see what is on the other side.

 

[Amye]

I haven't watched it yet but have heard a lot of opinions on it that reflect what's been said in this thread! Will watch it later and email in after.

I can completely understand why some people ride 2 abreast and think it's a silly think to say on TV. This just gives drivers more ammunition to dislike horse riders on the roads.

I have to ride on roads to get to bridleways, I'd much rather NOT if i had the choice - I was hoping they would mention something along those lines but that doesn't seem to have happened. I always kit myself out in hi viz and thank drivers when possible who slow down - if they don't slow down and zoom past then i see no point thanking them! Sometimes though, if my horse is feeling a little fresh i don't want to take a hand off the reins and say thanks - i will nod and smile, but drivers might not always see this.

I think getting drivers to slow down should be focused on - non horsey drivers need to understand the risks they take, not only to the horse and rider, but to themselves when they overtake too quickly or on blind bends/hills. I don't think this is covered enough.

Going now before I start to rant about the cyclists out in packs in thick fog on Saturday with no flipping lights at all...

This also ^^

I ride on country lanes and drive along them too to and from the yard. On weekends there are absolute packs of cyclists whizzing down the hills with no consideration at all! They are much worse then a couple of riders.

Every day I encounter cyclists who are kitted out in black with no lights (or a very very dim one) on dark or dreary days making them almost invisible. I very rarely see a cyclist in hi viz too.

I pass cyclists nice and wide and slowly and i never once get a thankyou - so why is it that us horse riders expected to do so??? (I'm not saying i don't think we should say thanks, just that sometimes we can't and we shouldn't be thought as arrogant if once in a while we have our hands full with the horse!)

 

[little_critter]

I pass cyclists nice and wide and slowly and i never once get a thankyou - so why is it that us horse riders expected to do so??? (I'm not saying i don't think we should say thanks, just that sometimes we can't and we shouldn't be thought as arrogant if once in a while we have our hands full with the horse!)

But cyclists on the whole don't spook at fast cars. In fact they would probably rather you got on with it and went past them (when it's safe).
Yes, give them space so you don't crush them into the hedge or clip them with your wing mirror, but don't expect a thank you for slowing down - they aren't expecting you to slow down for them.

 

[Amye]

But cyclists on the whole don't spook at fast cars. In fact they would probably rather you got on with it and went past them (when it's safe).
Yes, give them space so you don't crush them into the hedge or clip them with your wing mirror, but don't expect a thank you for slowing down - they aren't expecting you to slow down for them.

I get that horses are more unpredictable then cyclists. I pass cyclists wide and slowly as they might have to swerve to avoid a pothole/debris in the road etc and they can hit an uneven surface and have a wobble too.

I'm not saying that cyclists SHOULD say thanks to me, i'm saying that if I drive carefully around them I don't get a thankyou (and it's not expected for them to say thankyou) but it IS expected of horse riders - even when it might not be safe for a horse rider to take one hand off the reins, if we don't say thanks we get called arrogant.


ETA: I also don't mean that horse riders SHOULDN'T say thanks. But I think drivers need to be educated that it's not always safe for a rider to do so, and if they don't sometimes it's not always because they don't appreciate it, it's because they can't.

 

[little_critter]

I get that horses are more unpredictable then cyclists. I pass cyclists wide and slowly as they might have to swerve to avoid a pothole/debris in the road etc and they can hit an uneven surface and have a wobble too.

I'm not saying that cyclists SHOULD say thanks to me, i'm saying that if I drive carefully around them I don't get a thankyou (and it's not expected for them to say thankyou) but it IS expected of horse riders - even when it might not be safe for a horse rider to take both hands off the reins, if we don't say thanks we get called arrogant.

Ok - I see your point.
I also think I should get more thank you's from drivers when I have to hop onto a verge or dive into a geateway to get out of their way. I have as much right to be on the road as them so theoretically I shouldn't need to keep getting out of their way....but I do.

 

[little_critter]

ETA: I also don't mean that horse riders SHOULDN'T say thanks. But I think drivers need to be educated that it's not always safe for a rider to do so, and if they don't sometimes it's not always because they don't appreciate it, it's because they can't.

I guess the problem that poses is if you tell a driver it's not always safe to take your hand off the reins, the response will be that you shouldn't take that horse on the road then. A tricky one.
My mare is safe as houses 99% of the time but on the odd occasion she gets her knickers in a twist I'd rather not risk removing a hand (even though I'd probably be ok)

 

[Amye]

I guess the problem that poses is if you tell a driver it's not always safe to take your hand off the reins, the response will be that you shouldn't take that horse on the road then. A tricky one.
My mare is safe as houses 99% of the time but on the odd occasion she gets her knickers in a twist I'd rather not risk removing a hand (even though I'd probably be ok)

Yeah that's how I feel TBH! My horse is great on the roads normally, but has on the odd occasion been a bit fresh and I'd rather not remove my hand.

It's a tricky topic anyway - I guess if everyone was understanding and polite all the time then it would be fine but you get numpties on both sides (riders and drivers) who give others a bad name.

 

[pansymouse]

I nod my head in thanks - I wear a hi viz hat cover so it can clearly be seen. I got the head nodding habit from my biker days - it seems a good way of being safe and sociable.

 

[little_critter]

I nod my head in thanks - I wear a hi viz hat cover so it can clearly be seen. I got the head nodding habit from my biker days - it seems a good way of being safe and sociable.

Oh I nod and grin and mouth thank you, but I can't always be sure the driver can see it.
I mean, even if you wave, if the car is right next to you at the time they won't see it unless they can see you through their sun roof (and why would they be looking up there anyway)

 

[Sealine]

As many of you have said my main issue with the article was not explaining to drivers why we are on the road. A couple of points they missed out:

1) If a horse damages a car it is likely that driver will be found at fault and they will have to cover the costs of repair themselves or lose their no claims bonus!
2) Please observe and obey our hand signals - riders are more aware of what is going in around us ie. we can see and hear more than a driver. If we ask them to slow it may be because we know there is something round the bend or in a hedge that a horse may spook at.

In the last 30 years I've been involved in three accidents where vehicles have squeezed past, albeit slowly, on narrow lanes because they couldn't wait for me to get to a passing place. Either the vehicle itself or an external factor has caused the horse to spook or kick out causing damage to the vehicle. In all cases I gave the drivers my details and two tried to blame me but neither were successful. In one case I was accused of being on a horse that was too big for me and out of control - I was on a 25 year old 14.2hh who spooked because someone started a chain saw on the other side of the hedge as the car squeezed past me. Horse spun round and pushed the front passenger door in on a new Mercedes. I came to a halt behind the car and the driver proceeded to hurl abuse at me because I'd damaged his precious car. No concern at all for my or horses welfare.