Dr riders wearing protective hats...

kerilli said:
thanks, jumptoit, i didn't know they'd changed the rule. good!
imr, fairly sure you'd be in a far worse way if you hadn't been wearing a good hat. cracked hat open... jeeez. i've heard of that but not seen it.
i found pics of American riders competing in tails + helmet.
http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=9780
they look pretty good to me...
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They do look good :D. Even without my head/hat beliefs, I would think they look good, especially Shannon Peters :D
 
"i would actually be really interested to hear from a non hat wearer why they choose not to wear one? "

there are a fair few threads on this topic, by now i doubt many bother to post as theres no point,neither side will ever change their mind. the pro hat will continue to throw insults and the hatless will continue to think some of you are just a little bit up your own arse, and no one will change their habits.

personally, for the record, from age 14/15ish i rode horses for a pro SJ'er and kept my horse on his yard in the school holidays, and i jumped 3yo's to GP horses without a hat.im now 27 and over ten years of a hat NOT being the norm is well and truly ingrained. that said i do a mental risk assessment each time i get on, i have one horse i ride for a client that has been known to flip over, so hat goes on.and one that flings its head right back when excited, so hat goes on in order to prevent any neck/nose collisions. and when i jump now, or hack i do put one on as my boy is not sensible to hack, and very green jumping,and im out of practice jumping now.

at home, im riding a 14yo horse that has NEVER bucked/reared/spun in his 10years with us, is totally 100% balanced (schooled to GP) and my surface is maintained to obsessive levels of flatness, or im riding the worlds most idle TB that doesnt know how to spook and is so safe in the school id put my granny on him.seriously maybe iv got freak horses that just dont randomly go bananas, but at home,mine are as predictable as these hat threads!!!!!

i use my 1 braincell (!)-i dont ride round the yard without a hat, or on concrete, or on a crap surface i dont know. i guess i view hats how most people view BP-an extra for days when you're doing something *different*.this wont be popular-im a half decent rider, iv got a ton of experience on horses no one else wants to get on, im fairly hard to shift.so on my horses, at home, im not going to go out the side door for no particular reason. ditto on clients horses that i know, at home, unless its something thats going to seriously flip its lid, im not going to fall off *just because*.not everyone has that balance,if you think you might come off then please do put a hat on.

i am far safer doing flatwork on a surface hatless than anyone eventing, hunting or team chasing.do we ban those sports?ban galloping?ban jumping?where does it end?

i would be interested to know if the % of hatless related deaths is higher in countries such as germany or holland where hatless is more normal, and no one kicks up a stink.

if you're under 16, or on the roads i 100% agree it should be law to wear a hat.beyond that im totally and utterly pro freedom of choice.

thats the long and short of it. so now you can all call me names, and i can sigh and zone out again.
 
Tbh I'm of the opinion each to their own. I always wear a hat & I do think it should be compulsory on the roads/at comps but if someone wants to ride hatless at home *shrug* that's their choice, their risk.

But when I read comments like this:

Prince33Sp4rkle said:
"thats the long and short of it. so now you can all call me names, and i can sigh and zone out again.
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it just makes me think, to borrow a phrase, that the hatless lot are "just a little bit up their own arses" themselves
 
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you are entitled to your view, i am entitled to mine, i do not try and force mine upon other people and its those that bully,nag, and thus try and force theirs upon me, that i find to be up their own arse. note that i said some, not all of you (as in pro hat people).some of my very good friends always wear a hat, but they dont try and force it upon me, constatly chide me, or in any way try and impose their views upon me, thus its not an issue between us.
 
"it just makes me think, to borrow a phrase, that the hatless lot are "just a little bit up their own arses"


why, because i wont be preached at by strangers on an internet forum?
my last 3 pic threads on here have been hijacked by people going on about hats (or lack of)......if i started replying to every thread "why are you wearing a hat" there would be uproar, but apparently its ok when boot is on other foot.that i find very head up arse TBH, if i want advise ill ask for it, and i do,and i take that advise, but i have never asked for it about hats, and thus dont want the comments.
 
So don't read the threads about it FFS! If your own threads get hijacked I imagine that does get annoying but when a thread is clearly about the issue from a pro-hat POV why bother getting involved? As I said originally, I'm of the opinion to each their own and I actually agree with free choice other than on roads/comps but your "so now you can all call me names, and i can sigh and zone out again" comment was unnecessarily snarky and doesn't really lend much to the no-hat POV other than an 8 year old mentality of 'because I said so, so there. ner'. You'd have an easier time of being heard/taken seriously if you lost the attitude.
 
PS - you know that I come from this from a slightly different angle to most, as in a 'been there, tried the brain damage angle'. Mine was a nothing fall, a silly fall, the horse did nothing wrong, my foot slipped, a slight change in direction that I have sat a thousand times, but it just went wrong at just the wrong moment.

You talk about chiding, etc., but if you were riding with one of your friends - them hatted or otherwise - with you hatless and gawd forbid you came off and bashed your head, why/how is your friend to cope?

I don't ask this to argue, I ask this because Friend, who thankfully is a neurology nurse, was with me and she knew what to do. I had someone who was experienced with brain trauma. If I hadn't had a hat on, it would all have been academic.

So, thinking this further through, if you are happy to wear a hat in certain situations, why aren't you happy to wear a proper crash hat at a dressage competition? It's not the controlled environment that you are happy hatless and there are many other variables, which could cause a spook/slip/fall.

I've done a lot of so called dangerous sports and ridden motorbikes and dirt bikes, etc. etc., and in all of them, when one competes, one has to have a certain degree of protection, all of which start with the head being protected.


As I said. I don't care one fig if you personally wear a hat or not: I have a completely different view on the matter to you; one which I hope you never get to share with me, because if it's one of the times you're not wearing a hat, you'll be stuffed.

This reminds me of my youngest daughter fighting her way into the ambulance. I don't know if you have children, but I'm sure you've had the discussion with your family and close friends and they're all happy with your decision.

Sorry if this doesn't flow so well. I find that when I get tired these days, the words are harder to match up.

As I said, not looking for an argument, just wondering why someone would choose not to make themselves as safe as is possible.
 
I have never ever watched someone famous ride and thought "OMG, if I don't wear a hat I will totes be as good as them". Never. Now, I'm not sure if my sister and I are anomalies in the young people category but I was bought up to use the brains I've been given and make my own decisions. My decision is to put on a hat every time I get on a horse because I am not a secure rider- I can stick nasty stops and sill behaviour, but when my horse side-stepped slightly I plopped right off. However, I will never tell anyone to wear a hat or preach at them. Their head, their choice. I might (if it's someone I know) think "Oh blimey... that's begging for an accident" but I'd never say it.

I find this sort of thread a difficult read really- people who have made up their minds have made up their minds. What they do at home is entirely up to them.
 
Are dressage and rodeo regulated by some kind of overarching authority in the US, or are they completely separate? Seems weird to me that one country can have a sport with minimal falling off risk (such as dressage) with compulsory hats, but no mention of them for sports where falling off is pretty much inevitable (bronc/bull riding).

I'm quite in favour of the compulsory protective hats in competition, but the juxtaposition of the two sports in the country seems insane.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
"i would actually be really interested to hear from a non hat wearer why they choose not to wear one? "

there are a fair few threads on this topic, by now i doubt many bother to post as theres no point,neither side will ever change their mind. the pro hat will continue to throw insults and the hatless will continue to think some of you are just a little bit up your own arse, and no one will change their habits.

personally, for the record, from age 14/15ish i rode horses for a pro SJ'er and kept my horse on his yard in the school holidays, and i jumped 3yo's to GP horses without a hat.im now 27 and over ten years of a hat NOT being the norm is well and truly ingrained. that said i do a mental risk assessment each time i get on, i have one horse i ride for a client that has been known to flip over, so hat goes on.and one that flings its head right back when excited, so hat goes on in order to prevent any neck/nose collisions. and when i jump now, or hack i do put one on as my boy is not sensible to hack, and very green jumping,and im out of practice jumping now.

at home, im riding a 14yo horse that has NEVER bucked/reared/spun in his 10years with us, is totally 100% balanced (schooled to GP) and my surface is maintained to obsessive levels of flatness, or im riding the worlds most idle TB that doesnt know how to spook and is so safe in the school id put my granny on him.seriously maybe iv got freak horses that just dont randomly go bananas, but at home,mine are as predictable as these hat threads!!!!!

i use my 1 braincell (!)-i dont ride round the yard without a hat, or on concrete, or on a crap surface i dont know. i guess i view hats how most people view BP-an extra for days when you're doing something *different*.this wont be popular-im a half decent rider, iv got a ton of experience on horses no one else wants to get on, im fairly hard to shift.so on my horses, at home, im not going to go out the side door for no particular reason. ditto on clients horses that i know, at home, unless its something thats going to seriously flip its lid, im not going to fall off *just because*.not everyone has that balance,if you think you might come off then please do put a hat on.

i am far safer doing flatwork on a surface hatless than anyone eventing, hunting or team chasing.do we ban those sports?ban galloping?ban jumping?where does it end?

i would be interested to know if the % of hatless related deaths is higher in countries such as germany or holland where hatless is more normal, and no one kicks up a stink.

if you're under 16, or on the roads i 100% agree it should be law to wear a hat.beyond that im totally and utterly pro freedom of choice.

thats the long and short of it. so now you can all call me names, and i can sigh and zone out again.
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I am all for self preservation, and leave others to their own choice, but Prince33Sp4rkle - I would be intersted to know the reasons WHY you dont wear a hat.
 
gnubee said:
Are dressage and rodeo regulated by some kind of overarching authority in the US, or are they completely separate? Seems weird to me that one country can have a sport with minimal falling off risk (such as dressage) with compulsory hats, but no mention of them for sports where falling off is pretty much inevitable (bronc/bull riding).

I'm quite in favour of the compulsory protective hats in competition, but the juxtaposition of the two sports in the country seems insane.
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Completely separate.
 
"So don't read the threads about it FFS"

erm somebody asked for the inut of a hatless person, thus my replying.if they hadnt asked i wouldnt have.is that ok with you?!

i dont wear a hat:

* because its not the norm, its habit NOT to.

* the situations in which i dont wear a hat, are ones where im not going to come off.

people who work in neuro units-please can you tell me how many head/horse related accidents are down to hatless dressage riders, and how many are down to hacking out,jumping, kids pratting around with ponies on concrete yards, or people actually being kicked in the head. would be interested to know..........
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
* the situations in which i dont wear a hat, are ones where im not going to come off.
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You do yourself a disservice with this argument PS.

It comes across as extremely arrogant and infers that anybody who wears a hat is about to fall off at either moment.
Surely, that isn't the case :confused:.

I don't think you are arrogant per se, just in this case :cool:.

I dearly hope that in the statistically very unlikely case that a horse has a heart attack beneath you that you manage to land not underneath the horse and with your bonce intact. Ooh, now there's a story I could retell .... it wasn't pretty :(.

In your previous pictures, I think you look infinitely better in your hat .... for me, people not wearing a hat just doesn't look right :(.
 
on own land your choice like seat belts but on roads would insurance use it as a cop out?
I wouldnt get on horse without hat and proper boots but not very often do i bother with BP although did with young horse till recently, but do have strap on saddle and hang on to that if she is being spooky, made OH get hat fitted and boots as we have started hacking out together and he feels mush safer with proper hat & boots.
 
quirky said:
In your previous pictures, I think you look infinitely better in your hat .... for me, people not wearing a hat just doesn't look right :(.
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And I think you do yourself a disservice with this. I wear a hat, btu I have ridden without, and it is up to each individual in my mind. I do believe they should be compulsory for comeptition, because it is in the public eye, adn there will always be impressionable individuals viewing. Other than that- personal choice. You make your decisions, adn if you adn you family/freidns can live with them as well, then fine.

BUT- the above argument- if PS, or me, or any other hatless rider said 'Wearing a hat doesn't 'look right' ' They would be shot down in flames- but for several on this and other threads- it's not just you I accept- to say hatless 'looks' wrong is surely the same line of argument........and there I was thinking that this argument/debate was supposed to be superior to vanity!
 
Hi Princess Sparkle. you know my view on hatless due to my sisters accident, I have given my opinion and I also said I wouldn't mention it again as it will not get you to change your mind so I won't. :)

I am firm believer of wearing a hat but this topic has been discussed to death and the threads do end up becoming a slanging match.

all i would say is that it is I would not let anyone ride my horses or ride on my land with out wearing a hat, I personally wear a hat for anything that involves dealing with a youngster, and anytime I am in a saddle. I would probably say something to someone if I saw them without a hat, but if it was on their own land then its not my place to enforce it.

I don't think anyone will change their mind, and for the hatless I think the topic has gone so far now, most won't wear it out of principle!
 
kerilli said:
mother made me wear one of those hideous JOFA things!
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OMG so did mine, I've never seen anyone other than me and my sister in one!!! So Glad I wasn't the only person looking like an upside down weeble!

I was so relieved when they updated the safety standards and the JOFA was no longer up to standard, good excuse to go and buy a "normal" skull cap.
 
i dont know if you are deliberately twisting, or just misunderstanding what i said...........i dont wear a hat when im damn sure IM not going to fall off, i havent said that generic people dont wear a hat if not likely to come, so in no way have i implied that anyone wearing a hat is a lesser rider or likely to come off.sorry but please dont put words in my mouth, because its not fair, and it distorts the debate.

am still waiting to hear more on this..."people who work in neuro units-please can you tell me how many head/horse related accidents are down to hatless dressage riders, and how many are down to hacking out,jumping, kids pratting around with ponies on concrete yards, or people actually being kicked in the head. would be interested to know.......... "
 
People *can* change their mind, I did.

I grew up in a country where nobody ever wore (wears!) hats, not even when jumping, or hacking out on roads, or riding really dangerous horses.

Although I never wore a hat when Rauti was 4, I did start wearing one when Frodo was backed, years later. Purely because I need my brain for my job. Even so I was always the only hat-wearing person in the arena! I even remember that the young man who backed Frodo never wore a helmet, not even for the very first time he sat on him, which is something which will shock a lot of people in the UK. But on the continent there is just a different culture. It is so rare to see people wearing helmets and it really feels stupid to be the only one with one!

Then Courtney, one of my all-time favourite riders and people, had her accident. She was NOT bucked off or reared with or anything like that, her horse simply tripped and fell, and it happened to happen on cement, and she happened to hit her head. If she had been bucked off I might have reacted differently as I am 100% confident that my own horse would never, ever buck anybody off (he absolutely does not buck). But the fact that she is now in the condition she is, for an accident which happened completely irrespective of her riding abilities, or of the horse's character, really made me think.

I know that it is extremely unlikely that I will fall off Rauti but I also know that it *is* possible that he trips and falls, or, God forbid, suffers a heart attack, or something like that completely out of OUR (mine and his) control. Therefore, since Courtney's accident, I have never ridden hatless, not even for 10 minutes' walk.

It does feel strange, though -- just because I am always the only one with a helmet on!!

However, things are changing. When we did the photoshoot for St Georg last year we all had to wear a helmet, the magazine itself demanded helmets on all riders! At shows, even at the Bundeschampionat, you do see riders in young horse classes (3 and 4 yo) with helmets on rather than top hats. Even at my yard, youngsters prone to bucking / being very lively who were previously ridden bare-headed are now ridden by some with a hat on!

And at big internationals there will be some top riders riding certain horses with a helmet on -- such as Patrik Kittel at the Munster CDI, in the past I have also seen Helen Langehanenberg and Victoria Max Theurer (note, all these riders were riding their top GP horses). So things are definitely changing.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
am still waiting to hear more on this..."people who work in neuro units-please can you tell me how many head/horse related accidents are down to hatless dressage riders, and how many are down to hacking out,jumping, kids pratting around with ponies on concrete yards, or people actually being kicked in the head. would be interested to know.......... "
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I don't know the answer, but for what it's worth I very much doubt that more dressage riders die in Italy or Germany (where nobody wears helmets) than in the UK (where more helmets are worn).

This is only anecdotal and statistically insignificant, but when I had my car crash in Holland the lovely Dutch man in the ambulance kept saying that he hates horse riding because of all the terrible accidents he sees at work. Of the long list he gave us (horrific accidents which destroyed young girls' faces, stuff like that) none was related to having or not having a helmet. The majority seemed to involve people being kicked in the face or head, from the ground.
 
"Then Courtney, one of my all-time favourite riders and people, had her accident. She was NOT bucked off or reared with or anything like that, her horse simply tripped and fell, and it happened to happen on cement, and she happened to hit her head."

but theres the rub, and im in no way at all saying she is to blame,it was a hideous unfortunate accident-why was she riding (a presumably shod horse)on slippy concrete, without a hat? i dont think you can compare that to the possibility of falling off on a surface and doing the same injury?iv already said i dont ride to and from the arena, on the yard (gravel) or the concrete areas, so for my particular case, iv covered that eventually and taken a step to eradicate the risk,but still people use it as an example.i think a lot of examples are twisted to suit for this particular argument......the horse that drops dead of a heart attack out hunting, the rider that falls off jumping and hits the fence,the horse that trips over on the road etc, not comparable to flatwork on a surface.

absolutely NO disrepect for CKD.
 
FB, I think your post illustrates very well why the hat debate threads will run and run on here. As you have shown, some people DO change their minds on the hat issue, and that may mean that they are saved serious injury or death. However, people won't change their minds because of insult-throwing or rudeness about the hatless, but rather through reading sensible and well-reasoned posts like yours above.
 
Well PS I guess she never wore a hat full stop. Also I have no idea what the set-up of her yard was, but all the yards I've been to have a lot of concrete, I would assume most riders would get on on concrete or have to walk on concrete in order to get to the arena? That's the case at all of the yards I've been to! You get on in the stable block and have to walk on concrete / asphalt / pretty cobbles / whatever in order to reach the outdoor arena. From what I remember from the accident she was indeed about to enter the outdoor arena, it's not like she was hacking out or anything like that.
 
Will admit from the start I have a firm opinion on this, not least of which is from being a professional driver for years in a horsey part of the country.

What people do on private property is between them & their insurers (would your life insurance cover you if you aren't deemed to be taking reasonable precautions against getting injured? Don't know the answer but think it is a question worth asking). If hunters are on private land then their headgear is their choice. On public areas however, they should confirm to the point I make below.

Anyone (including adults) on public highway should wear a helmet of a recognised minimum standard. If you can afford a horse, you can find the price of a helmet. My endurance helmet meets very high safety standards & costs £35. Not even the cost of a pair of shoes for the horse. This is where you have to think beyond yourself to any other parties who may be innocently involved if your trusted steed suddenly gets a horse fly bite on a sensitive spot ( jumps, potentially into traffic), been there, seen it. It's not just about you & your choice. A driver could have to live with killing you and /or your horse through no fault of their own. It is enforable, it works pretty well with motorbikes.

All FEI disciplines (including reining) should wear protective hats. Any horse can react or slip. The worse reasons in the world against this are 1)it's not tradition 2)it doesn't look as nice. Move on, cerate new traditions & put the ego on hold. Riding in all disciplines is a risk sport, no horse is a machine. It is a predictable risk that can be reduced, so why such anger? Don't hate hat supporters, they are only thinking of you. The point of experiences is to learn from them. Some of these posters have been there done it & trying to save you the pain & distress.

Kids do look up to top riders. If they see them wearing hats as the norm, then they will find it more acceptable. I work a lot with kids. They do look at successful performers in their chosen sport & use them as role models.
 
PS, out of interest (and no name calling, mud slinging from this side at all), I appreciate that you only ride hatless when doing dressage on a suface and on a horse you trust not to bronc/trip, etc., but if you had a choice, top hat or crash hat in a competition, which would you go for?

This is bearing in mind that the surface is unlikely to be as good as the one you ride on at home (more horses on it, etc.). Plus all the other variables at a competition venue.

I have come to the conclusion that I really don't care if someone else rides hatless anywhere. Their choice. So long as I don't have to deal with any aftermath, then it's nothing to do with me.

I will qualify the above statement however, at competitions there are youngsters (humans) who watch and who copy their idols. To not wear a crash hat in that situation is ridiculous; it's alright if you've made your peace with your nearest and dearest on the subject, but influencing another, albeit indirectly, to go hatless is wrong.


As I've said all along, and I realise I'm a bore on the subject, but bear with me. I've been in the 'if I hadn't been wearing a hat I'd be dead or a complete vegetable' situation. It's not nice. It affects everyone and everything around one. Work. Life. Relatioships. Riding. Driving. Everything.
 
For what it's worth, chatting to an orthopaedic consultant who was trying to persuade me to stop riding (didn't work), he did say from a study (no I don't know the names or the title) into riding accident statistics, that people who rode most days were likely to end up in hospital at least twice in their lifetime from riding accidents. One long bone accident & one head injury. Done the former, hope my hat helps avoid the letter.
 
Princesssparkle - as you can obviously see the future as you "know" you are not going to fall off maybe you could tell me what numbers are going to come up on the lottery next weekend?

Thanks very much :)
 
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