Draw reins... Who uses them and why?

[The wife]

Slightly inspired by Pale Riders post about gadgets, flashes, martingales etc and the fact that I have come across mis-use of them so many times in this last year...

My biggest, ever hate is draw reins... So as the title says, whos uses them, who has used them and why did you use them?

Used correctly, I believe they can be a very useful tool, in the wrong hands, well, it makes me shudder. I admit to using them once or twice on something that just wasn't 'getting' what I wanted, not for an 'outline' but for bend. The results were fantastic but then I already had a horse that was plenty forward and they were used as a little tweak when needed to wrap around my leg a bit more and were only needed once on each horse. It is our least used piece of kit and they will hang in the tack room for years and years without being used.

I have witnessed a class of children between the ages of 10-15 at a riding club camp ALL riding their ponies in draw reins, as requested by the instrtuctor, some were even in Dutch gags. I was absolutely appalled.

So come on guys. Let's hear it people please have your tin hats ready

 

[StormyMoments]

used to hack my friends show jumper in draw reins as it prevented her from feeling the need to rear... then we decided that its probably better that we didnt have 2 sets of reins to hold on to while she was pissing about so she was changed into a market harborer (how ever you spell it) so less likely to loose either pairs of reins as she was a bugger fro throwing her head sideways and biting down on the reins and pulling them out of your hand... little madam she was

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

me because I am a terrible person....I have jumped in them too....send me to hell

 

[Wagtail]

Absolutely hate them! I hate having to reschool a horse that has been mainly schooled in them. Makes them extremely gobby once they realise the reins aren't on. If used sparingly they CAN soften a horse up, but all too often they are used by people who are just over horsed or don't have the skill to school properly. I think the only time I would possibly use them would be to hack out a horse that was too strong for me and who spooked really badly. But then I try to avoid over horsing myself.

 

[The wife]

me because I am a terrible person....I have jumped in them too....send me to hell

Oh my goodness me! You're not just going to hell, you'll have to look up just to see hell

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Oh my goodness me! You're not just going to hell, you'll have to look up just to see hell

I think if I look up I see where you talk about, im in deep s**t.....

 

[The wife]

Without a doubt. If you had said you jumped in draw reins AND didn't wear a hat, whilst waving a carrot stick, then I certainly think you'd be looking up at the place below hell and should be banned from ever riding horses again.

 

[ilvpippa]

Me, re-schooling the polo pony, ginger tb mare. Sometimes 10 minutes in the draw reins would be more beneficial than 45 minutes of her fighting down the rein. They have a place. She likes them, shes happy, its only occasional they get used, when i feel shes being gobby. Its like i sometimes school in my three ring gag, sometimes, a 10 minute session is better, once a month in this, which then stops so much arguing in her snaffle

 

[Four Seasons]

*Puts tin hat on*

I must admit, I have used them. My ex-instructor made me believe that draw reins were the solution for my grey mare, it worked as well. But when I got to a higher level, I noticed that the basics weren't good, because the outline was forced. So I ditched the instructor and found one that focuses on working together and harmony. And now it's going better than ever.

The draw reins got the result I wanted within two weeks, but I took me and my new instructor months to repair the damage.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

I had a hat on 9/10 times. But carrot stick! Go hang your head in shame I wouldnt use such a thing

 

[PolarSkye]

I don't . . . because a) they should never be in my hands . . . ever . . . I am far too novicy; and b) I wouldn't let anyone ride my horse using them b/c he has learned to rear - possibly from being ridden in draw reins in the past. In the wrong hands, I think they are the devil's work.

P

 

[Queenbee]

I to stop a horse evading contact and stargazing.... I have ridden a couple of horses with very high head carriage who hollow out their backs and go 'emu' on their rider, I use the DR to stop the head going too far up and then my legs to drive their backsides underneath them so they aren't riding like a cut and shut!

and by this I don't mean I use DR to strap them down, I don't even care if they are on the bit tbh, but I cant stand it when I have ears in my face and no back underneath me, so I use them to stop horses that think they are emus

 

[Wagtail]

I to stop a horse evading contact and stargazing.... I have ridden a couple of horses with very high head carriage who hollow out their backs and go 'emu' on their rider, I use the DR to stop the head going too far up and then my legs to drive their backsides underneath them so they aren't riding like a cut and shut!

and by this I don't mean I use DR to strap them down, I don't even care if they are on the bit tbh, but I cant stand it when I have ears in my face and no back underneath me, so I use them to stop horses that think they are emus

IMO If a horse goes around like that he is either in pain or has not been schooled correctly. There is always a reason.

 

[rhino]

They're not something I've ever felt the need to use up till now

 

[cptrayes]

I used them for daily for over a week recently on a young dressage horse who had decided to use his strength and agility to evade my instructions. He had reached a stage when his maturity and education meant that he needed to do a lot more transitions between and within the pace and a lot more changes of direction. He was using a faked fear of some things which had been around the arena for a full year to justify violent spooking, and if restricted from spooking, to rear and buck.

For safety, I put them on so that I could stop him doing that. As long as he worked normally, they were not in contact. If he spooked I took up contact in a normal head position. If he bucked or reared, I put him overbent for my safety, where he could do neither with any power. On one day, for a few minutes, when he was particularly objectionable I put him in hyperflexion.

After a few days I was able to ride with them clipped to the saddle, out of use, for the entire session except a few minutes when he decided to try his luck. After less than two weeks I left them off altogether and don't expect to ever have to use them again.

Horses are not saints, especially not the highly bred competition parentage ones. This horse had been completely, gently, desensitised to everything he had decided to make a fuss about. This was "teenage boy" tantrums and the draw reins were a quick and fair way of keeping me safe while letting him know what his priorities needed to be. He was, and remains, exceptionally affectionate to handle and bears no grudges

Used to stop a horse putting his head UP, they are fine and better than a martingale which turns the neck upside down.

Used to pull the head DOWN, my opinion is this should only be done for a short time, just to educate those horses who seem to have no idea that they are even capable of working that way Many ex racers are like this, especially when trying to teach them a balanced canter transition. It's a much better option than getting a neck in your face

Used for rider safety, I have no issues.

Used as a shortcut to a "correct" outline - I don't think it will get you there, it will just get you a bad approximation with stuff to be undone later on.

I am though, amazed by the number of people who think draw reins are a work of the devil while being quite happy to work their horses in fixed side reins. That doesn't stack up for me.

 

[PolarSkye]

IMO If a horse goes around like that he is either in pain or has not been schooled correctly. There is always a reason.

This.

Kal's default setting is hollow . . . but in the nearly three years since we've had him we've managed to persuade him that there's another way . . . some of the time. He's not in pain. It's just habit. But I'd much rather school him out of it than strap him down/in, etc.

But that's just me.

P

 

[Cedars]

OH uses them rarely on the eventer. Told to by someone you don't argue with! Very rare but they work.

As with all aids, they're fine if used thoughtfully and carefully.

 

[cptrayes]

IMO If a horse goes around like that he is either in pain or has not been schooled correctly. There is always a reason.

I agree with you Wagtail. In the case of, say an ex-racehorse who has deliberately been taught all his life to go in a very different way than a dressage rider wants him to go, for example, would you ever support their use, short term, to educate the horse that there is a different shape he can take?

 

[Wagtail]

I agree with you Wagtail. In the case of, say an ex-racehorse who has deliberately been taught all his life to go in a very different way than a dressage rider wants him to go, for example, would you ever support their use, short term, to educate the horse that there is a different shape he can take?

I specialise in retraining ex race horses, and have never once needed to use them even on an ex steeple chaser who was a nightmare to retrain at first.

 

[deicinmerlyn]

I agree with you Wagtail. In the case of, say an ex-racehorse who has deliberately been taught all his life to go in a very different way than a dressage rider wants him to go, for example, would you ever support their use, short term, to educate the horse that there is a different shape he can take?

I didn't with mine, but it takes longer and many people aren't prepared to take the time to work slowly and correctly.

I wouldn't rule them out for safety reasons though and keep an open mind.

 

[Garfield1537]

I used on my ex-hunter out hacking as he started to get out of control and after using twice a massive change and back to old plain old snaffle! Never needed since! I believe in correct hands they are fine - ducking as shots fired!

 

[Jools1234]

not on mine

the old dressage instructor who teaches the people who's horses i look after, told them i would not like it but lunging in draw reins would get the 6yr old working much better.
when said six year old started running through all reins aids and then started going hollow and buggering off the owner was dissapointed i pointed out how the timing fitted in with the use of the draw reins, since the instructor has been changed and the draw reins ditched the pony is its normal happy self and back winning affiliated dressage against adults with a 14yr old rider on board.

 

[cptrayes]

I didn't with mine, but it takes longer and many people aren't prepared to take the time to work slowly and correctly.

This is a problem that I have with discussions about draw reins. There is nothing inconsistent in my use of them and correct training.

And I never can understand why it is supposed in some way to be better to allow a horse to struggle, sometimes for months, with a part of its training than it is to explain it kindly and easily in draw reins in a few days.


For example,
I've retrained a number of ex racers whose idea of a canter transition on a bend in an arena was to throw its head as high as possible into the air in order to pull the forehand off the floor. They can go on like that for weeks because they know no other way of doing things. It can be associated with other lovely things like a big buck from behind - shoving you straight into their neck with your face - or a mad dash across the arena.

I can't personally see the point of waiting weeks and putting up with that level of discomfort as a rider, when a few sessions in draw reins, held so the the head is in front of the verticle, educates the horse very quickly that there is actually a more comfortable way to strike off for a canter transition. I don't see that the time delay of not using draw reins is of benefit to either the horse or the rider.

And I don't see that anything in that use is "incorrect" training. It's just taking a little help when it is offered.



Wagtail and Deicinmerlyn, does your more "correct" way of retraining include the use of side reins?

 

[Queenbee]

IMO If a horse goes around like that he is either in pain or has not been schooled correctly. There is always a reason.

actually wagtail thats a crock of poo I can absolutely say that my mare was not in pain, and she hadn't been schooled incorrectly... moreover she had never even been schooled. She was forcefull and didn't like being told what to do. If you would like to tell me how you would go about trying to stop a horse whos got its ears in your face and its back away from your arse and riding from its chest easily I would be happy to hear this. I hacked my horses long and hard, aiming to keep their heads in a relaxed position such as this:

with ebony, the DR only came into effect when she was trotting, and especially when she was being asked to slow, if she put her head up to evade.

Pickles was the same... no pain there! He was an avid jogger and stargazer, and again if he didn't want to slow down you weren't going to slow him, his head went up and he went forth jogging for all he was worth from his chest Again, if he tried this, the DRs simply stopped him getting his head too high to be effective to evade. Both horses were ridden off normal reins with the DRs fully slack until the horse decided to bring them into action by evading.

with time, pickles stopped evading hands and legs (although he jogged to his last day) and ebony strengthened the proper muscles and learnt to use her back end properly.

I would argue that stargazing is not down to pain, but it can eventually cause pain when expected to work properly, if left unchecked it can cause pain, but it is not in itself an indication of pain. Neither is it an indication of incorrect schooling (ofcourse it sometimes is) but taking ebony as an example it was the case of a 7 yr old, but very immature mare with no experience, very green and a hugely wilful nature.

DRs meant that I had some level of control over their evasion, at the times that they evaded, and this method of control, whilst restrictive at those specific times remained silent during the rest of the ride. Neither horses had DRs for the purpose of schooling them into an outline.

 

[Kelly1982]

I have done very occasionally on my mare if she was having one of her argumentative days. Never ever had them tight, just having them there made her respect them. Would never use them to strap a horses head down, if you need to do that then you need to go back to basics with your own schooling techniques IMO

 

[Mince Pie]

I use them on the cob when he decides that the world is out to get him and shoves his ears up my nose I also use them to guide horses onto a contact - ie when their head is where it should be then they are not in use. I also agree with the poster who says they are useful for bending.

Finally, I lunge with them.

 

[AdorableAlice]

At risk of going to hell in a handcart, draw reins and no hat.

This recently purchased young mare had been ridden by someone who held on by their hands. She was completely fixed in a hollow shape, rigid through her back and had no idea how to stretch forward or down, despite being built to be able to take the hand forward and down. She fears taking a contact and will anticipate a jab in the mouth by drawing her neck back. She does this if you put your leg on, we think she has been kicked on and pulled back at the same time. It will take a long time to getting her truly going forwards. Leg yield has helped a lot, as has working her on foot getting her to bend her ribcage and cross her feet over.

Six weeks on (3 sessions a week in school, rest hacking) the penny is dropping but only in walk. It was lovely this morning out hacking with her, she stretched forward and down, lifting her back and had a good swing in her walk, no draw rein and she offered the outline herself.

 

[The wife]

Tut tut, you too will go to that place to look up to hell... All you need is the waving stick

 

[JustAnotherNeddy]

For example,
I've retrained a number of ex racers whose idea of a canter transition on a bend in an arena was to throw its head as high as possible into the air in order to pull the forehand off the floor. They can go on like that for weeks because they know no other way of doing things. It can be associated with other lovely things like a big buck from behind - shoving you straight into their neck with your face - or a mad dash across the arena.

I can't personally see the point of waiting weeks and putting up with that level of discomfort as a rider, when a few sessions in draw reins, held so the the head is in front of the verticle, educates the horse very quickly that there is actually a more comfortable way to strike off for a canter transition. I don't see that the time delay of not using draw reins is of benefit to either the horse or the rider.

And I don't see that anything in that use is "incorrect" training. It's just taking a little help when it is offered.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. If there is an easier way for them to 'get it', then i find it perfectly fine!

I do not however agree with their use in the collecting ring where "pro" SJ'ers strap down noses to chests to look flashy and get bigger flying changes..

 

[guido16]

Don't use them myself, never have had the need (so far)

One thing queen bee, you say both horses you rode have their ears in your face. Do you think it might be the way you ride? As you are the common denominator?

Not trying to offend you at all, just curious and wondered what you thought?