Draw reins... Who uses them and why?

[I.Camilla]

I don't really have an opinion on people using them but this saying has always stuck in my head:

"Draw reins should only be used by professionals... But professionals shouldn't need them".

The quote is something like that anyway...
I have a friend who swears by them on her ex racehorse. She says the same as some of the replies on here... 10 mins of them once a month is better than an hour battling a schooling session!

Only problem is, she put them on for the start of a lesson with her instructor. The instructor told her not to be so ridiculous, took them off and rode the horse herself. 10 mins and the horse was going like a dream without the use of the draw reins.

 

[KatB]

I use them semi regularly. I use them very loose, as an alternative to a martingale when hacking out my very sharp mare. They never come into action unless she tries to stick her ears up my nose, and work very effectively in reminding her what is acceptable. They are teamed with a nathe snaffle and a cavesson noseband! I much prefer using them to a martingale as a martingale has a much harsher action IMHO when a horse decides to throw its head. They are also entirely dependant on where my hands are, so I can soften the action even when she is being a complete moose! I hate Market harboroughs, and only use a martingale (loosely!) when jumping

 

[Wagtail]

I don't really have an opinion on people using them but this saying has always stuck in my head:

"Draw reins should only be used by professionals... But professionals shouldn't need them".

The quote is something like that anyway...
I have a friend who swears by them on her ex racehorse. She says the same as some of the replies on here... 10 mins of them once a month is better than an hour battling a schooling session!

Only problem is, she put them on for the start of a lesson with her instructor. The instructor told her not to be so ridiculous, took them off and rode the horse herself. 10 mins and the horse was going like a dream without the use of the draw reins.

Exactly!

 

[Wagtail]

Yes, I do use them for hacking on my 6 ye old ISH. She is very, very nappy - the more you tell her off, the more she will rear, and she regularly gets to the stage where she is dangerous. I hope to only have to use them for a few weeks though. I will only school for 5-10 minutes in them, and again this is to stop her silliness. She does have the ability to go very nicely on some days so she isn't in pain (everything checked ) just a bit too clever!

I do understand people who use them hacking to help control a horse that is being silly and dangerous. Though to be truthful, I never hack out a horse that is dangerous. Not any more. Life's too short as it is!

 

[Sparkles]

I do...though not in the typical way. I use them for lunging....

 

[cptrayes]

Cptrayes, how often do you use draw reins on any one horse? Is it just the once or twice to 'correct' evasive action, or do you use them on a regular basis with each/some horses?

The maximum time that I have used them for on any one horse is two weeks. I would not normally need to use them again on the same horse.

 

[cptrayes]

I do...though not in the typical way. I use them for lunging....

But they aren't acting as draw reins, there is no pulley action. You are simply using them instead of using a long rope of any other kind.

 

[Sparkles]

But they aren't acting as draw reins, there is no pulley action. You are simply using them instead of using a long rope of any other kind.

I realise that....it was meant light heartedly.

 

[cptrayes]

Of course it is not identical. One force (the draw rein) is achored and provides leverage and exerts a force that is not only stronger and less flexible than the rider's hand, but is 90 degrees different to it in direction! So competely different to a man using his core strength to influence the horse.

The whole point is that it is in a different direction. That's what makes it so effective without excessive force. It is not anchored. It is not 90 degrees, more like 30, and it is as flexible as the hand at the end of the rein.

In regards to some horse's being 'men's horses', then would you also argue that some horses are not adult's horses? Whilst it is true that some large horses can be effectively ridden by a child, many cannot.

There is a range of horses that require riders of a range of strength to manage them.

The question is, do draw reins deminish 'feel'? Personally, I think that they not only deminish it, but if used before a rider is fully accomplished, can prevent the full development of it in the first place.

Now I want to scream This whole argument has been that it is wrong to say that draw reins are never correct just because they are often wrongly used. No one has ever disputed that this kind of use is incorrect.

If we go back to your example of a horse throwing its head up in the canter transition and you using draw reins to cure this, why put the horse in the position where it feels the need to throw its head up in the first place?

You have not ridden the horses which I have ridden if you think that I put them in a position where it "felt the need to do that" when it was avoidable.

If the horse is prepared properly so that it has the strength and balance to cope with the transitions and then the rider ensures that it is properly 'through' before asking for the transition, why the need for draw reins?

Because not all horses are angels. Because not many horses have had good training before they arrive with me. Because some horses are built upside down like llamas. Because I believe that is is often better to train the horse from on its back where I can feel what it is really doing. Because I do not believe that all horses taught super canter transitions with a pessoa on can automatically produce the same thing with an additional 15% of weight on its back in the form of a rider.

Now this is where I have a real problem with your use of draw reins and your argument that they do not deminish your 'feel'. Feel is about the split second sensing and reaction when a horse is going to evade and preventing it before it happens, rather than physically stopping it because you have a 'safety net' in the form of draw reins.

The one does not preclude the other. I have good feel just like you do. But I can't for the life of me see what is so great about having to suddenly move my hands on its mouth and send it on with my seat and/or legs when I sense that it is about to throw its head back in my face, when I can prevent it from happening in the first place while I concentrate on sitting quietly and using my hands softly.

I accept that in your correct use of draw reins you probably do not cause any harm to the horse's way of going. However, I still think that you would be able to cure and prevent evasions much more effectively without them as you are obviously an accomplished rider.

I disagree, the 30% change of angle on the pressure on the bit with draw reins is often spectacularly effective and it is something that a rider cannot physically achieve.

I cannot see the harm in taking help when it is available.

In an ideal world, we would not use gadgets.

You use one I would not put on a horse of mine. We have different views. I personally do not want my horses moving with their heads a foot off the floor as you have previously described. For me, that does not help the horse develop the right muscles to carry a rider with his head where it should be, it just artificially stretches muscles which the horse needs to have a lot shorter in order to hold a saddle and rider. It might perhaps be beneficial as a warm-up exercise, but as a builder of the right musculature to carry a saddle and rider? Not in my book.

However, I think that if you are lunging a horse then you need to ensure that they work the correct muscles and not many would naturally work in a beneficial outline so gadgets are necessary.

I do not believe in lunging at all. Other than to test to see if a horse is sound, or get the first minutes of fizz out of a fresh horse, I never send a horse round and round in circles on a rope.

However, when ridden, then the human rider is a much more effective tool for working a horse than any gadget can be.

In my view, a saddle and a bridle are as much a gadget as properly used draw reins. All any of them do, when properly fitted and used, is provide help to the rider in communicating what they want to the horse.

 

[cyberhorse]

They are a useful aid when used as part of an overall training regime. I don't use them for flatwork as I want him to go long and low and be in a soft flexible outline. This is my personal preference for this particular horse as it encourages him to use himself correctly within each exercise. If I was to use draw reins on the flat then I personally find it would be more difficult to prevent him from becoming too rigid in his neck and get him to relax and use his back. He was ridden by the previous novice owner in a market H and I found he had been leaning on this and not using himself properly - when I removed this "crutch" he could not carry himself in most movements.

However when on the beach and when doing small jumping exercises I do use elasticated draw reins as if excited he'll throw his head and run. He was jumped in this style for many years by a top UK showjumper, however as he is built hollow this is really not good for him in the long term. Despite many sessions for re-schooling and lessons with top UK trainers (also trying many bits and various set ups/techniques), the general consensus is that he should be jumped in draw reins schooling over small fences at home to prevent him returning to old habits. He then jumps bigger tracks and competes without them. I would point out here he is vastly improved thanks to BOTH the long and low work I do and the occasional use of draw reins.

Hence I can see both sides of the argument. They do seem to be used too readily rather than in a considered fashion, however I feel there are some instances when other options/methods cannot achieve the same results and this can also be detrimental to the horse.

 

[Wagtail]

The whole point is that it is in a different direction. That's what makes it so effective without excessive force. It is not anchored. It is not 90 degrees, more like 30, and it is as flexible as the hand at the end of the rein.

So you must use the reins attached at the sides rather than between the front legs? Otherwise the angle would be close to 90 degrees as here (halfway down page) http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=482971&page=2

I dispute the point that they are as flexible as the hand. They cannot possibly be due to being attached at two ends (one end at the girth, the other at the hand.)

There is a range of horses that require riders of a range of strength to manage them.

now I'm confused. I thought you were disputing the point that some horses are 'men's horses'? I was simply saying that if you don't agree with that, then you must also think that all size and strength of horse can be ridden by children. It's the same principle.

Now I want to scream This whole argument has been that it is wrong to say that draw reins are never correct just because they are often wrongly used. No one has ever disputed that this kind of use is incorrect.

No my argument is that they are unnecessary, not that they are incorrect. What is the correct way of schooling any horse is down to opinion.

You have not ridden the horses which I have ridden if you think that I put them in a position where it "felt the need to do that" when it was avoidable.

My argument is that if a horse is working properly 'through' it is virtually impossible for them to throw their head up or at least it would make it harder for the horse to throw his head up than to make a clean transition. I am saying that the horses that do that are not working through properly. This can be down to not having the balance or strength as well as rider error.

Because not all horses are angels.

You think horses throw their heads up because they are naughty?

Because not many horses have had good training before they arrive with me.

Then show them the way without draw reins.

Because some horses are built upside down like llamas.

This is the worst possible reason to strap them in draw reins. They need to have their musculature changed before we demand clean changes. They have to have the 'tools' to perform correctly. Using draw reins just forces a horse that is not equipped to go correctly.

Because I believe that is is often better to train the horse from on its back where I can feel what it is really doing. Because I do not believe that all horses taught super canter transitions with a pessoa on can automatically produce the same thing with an additional 15% of weight on its back in the form of a rider.

Do you not do any groundwork at all? What about long reining? I understand very well why some people dislike lunging. I think it is invaluable, but do understand the arguments against it. I would not get on a horse to school it without working on its top line first. Maybe that is why I haven't had much of a problem with horses ears in my face? I get on it to hack or do straight lines but not schooling until I have prepared it with groundwork first.

The one does not preclude the other. I have good feel just like you do. But I can't for the life of me see what is so great about having to suddenly move my hands on its mouth and send it on with my seat and/or legs when I sense that it is about to throw its head back in my face, when I can prevent it from happening in the first place while I concentrate on sitting quietly and using my hands softly.

Personally, I think hands should be fluid and not fixed. They need to react to what the horse is doing or thinking about doing. But never busy and fiddly.

I disagree, the 30% change of angle on the pressure on the bit with draw reins is often spectacularly effective and it is something that a rider cannot physically achieve.

I cannot see the harm in taking help when it is available.

Help which I am sure you don't actually need.

You use one I would not put on a horse of mine. We have different views. I personally do not want my horses moving with their heads a foot off the floor as you have previously described. For me, that does not help the horse develop the right muscles to carry a rider with his head where it should be, it just artificially stretches muscles which the horse needs to have a lot shorter in order to hold a saddle and rider. It might perhaps be beneficial as a warm-up exercise, but as a builder of the right musculature to carry a saddle and rider? Not in my book.

I agree we will have to agree to differ on this one.

 

[cptrayes]

So you must use the reins attached at the sides rather than between the front legs? Otherwise the angle would be close to 90 degrees as here (halfway down page) http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=482971&page=2

The difference between the angle from the mouth to the hand where the rein would normally pull and the attachment to the girth where it pulls with draw reins is, when I use them, between 30 and 45 degrees. The rider in that picture has their hands very high and the horse is tense and "back at the rider". He is, in fact, being held on the draw reins and the proper reins are loose, which is exactly how NOT to use them and why his neck looks so tense and set.

If the rider dropped their hands to somewhere nearer normal and the horse was walking forwards calmly with his head in a more natural place, the angle would be around 30 and certainly not more than 45 degrees.

I dispute the point that they are as flexible as the hand. They cannot possibly be due to being attached at two ends (one end at the girth, the other at the hand.)

They are as flexible as the hand at the end. Ordinary reins and draw reins are both attached at one end - one to the bit and the other to the girth or girth or saddle d's. Draw reins allow the horse to move his mouth just as fixed reins do. I do not understand why you do not think the arrangement is flexible.

now I'm confused. I thought you were disputing the point that some horses are 'men's horses'?

Of course not. I was simply explaining how bemused I am that you think it is OK for a man to use his additional strength on a "man's horse" but not acceptable for a woman to use draw reins, properly, to achieve a very similar result.

No my argument is that they are unnecessary, not that they are incorrect.

And we disagree on exactly that point. I do accept that they may not be strictly "necessary" but I fail to see why people want to make a job harder than it needs to be when help is available.

My argument is that if a horse is working properly 'through' it is virtually impossible for them to throw their head up or at least it would make it harder for the horse to throw his head up than to make a clean transition. I am saying that the horses that do that are not working through properly. This can be down to not having the balance or strength as well as rider error.

But you don't accept that there are other reasons than lack of balance, lack of strength and rider error for a horse to behave that way.

And there we have a fundamental disagreement which we can never resolve.

You think horses {sometimes} throw their heads up because they are naughty?

You don't?????????

Then show them the way without draw reins.

Why?

I have already explained that the positioning of the pull on the bit makes is much easier for the rider to do this with draw reins; often kinder on the horse's mouth and always with more ability for the rider to stay balanced and sensitive and in harmony with the horse.

I take help when it helps me.

This is the worst possible reason to strap them in draw reins.

Here you go again! I don't "strap" any horse into draw reins.

They need to have their musculature changed before we demand clean changes.

And again, you are back on your old argument that no horse misbehaves for any reason than lack of training and/or physical ability. We fundamentally disagree on this point.

Using draw reins just forces a horse that is not equipped to go correctly.

No it does not. Yes again you make the assumption that draw reins are only being used on horses which are not physically able to do what is being asked of them.

Draw reins, properly used, stop a horse from taking an outline that we find undesireable, which is EXACTLY what you are doing when you lunge you horses in a pessoa in preparation for taking a rider.

Maybe that is why I haven't had much of a problem with horses ears in my face?

The horses whose ears I have had in my face have always been the ones which someone else ruined before I got them. The ones I break myself don't do it. I can happily accept that you are a better rider than me, but that is no reason for ME to make life harder for myself if there is help available which does not damage the horse.

Personally, I think hands should be fluid and not fixed. They need to react to what the horse is doing or thinking about doing. But never busy and fiddly.

Aggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really am screaming now. Why on earth do you assume that the hands are fixed just because the rider is holding two pairs of reins??????

 

[Wagtail]

I really am not trying to annoy you, Cptrayes. But to answer a couple of your points:

No, I do not believe that a horse throws its head up during transitions because it is being naughty, ever. I believe horses can be naughty in hand, can be naughty when napping (sometimes, but not always), but never naughty when throwing its head up during transitions.

I think that 99% of ridden schooling problems and evasions are due to the horse either not understanding (rider error), pain, imbalance,or lack of strength.

You query the fact that I seem to think they are used on horses that are not physically able to perform correctly, yet the main example you gave was an off the track thoroughbred throwing its head up during the canter transitions.
Of course it will do that if someone gets straight on without preparing them through groundwork so that they can cope with basic stuff like circles without the weight of a rider first.

I say strapping them into draw reins because draw reins are straps which force the horse to keep its head within the limits required by the rider.

 

[siennamum]

I am a bit confused. Surely when you ride in draw reins and you know what you are doing you can have the horse working in an uphill frame, a long frame or whatever, they don't affect the communication with the mouth unless you really take hold, which would only happen if the horse is pratting about. They are a bit like a flash, more to prevent an evasion and so not in effect unless the horse is evading, which happens on occasion with most mortal and non superhuman riders. The rest of the time they are doing nothing.

A pessoa on the other hand is pretty fixed. You can during a session work the horse in the frame you decide at the start biut cannot respond in an instant while the horse is working in response to how the horse is going (in the way you could with draw reins) In effect - surely out of the 2 gadgets a pessoa is the most fixed and will set the horse in a false outline.

Incidentally it is entirely possible to get a horse working properly with just a lunge rein and no gadgets at all, you just have to have them properly forward and attentive.

 

[Wagtail]

I am a bit confused. Surely when you ride in draw reins and you know what you are doing you can have the horse working in an uphill frame, a long frame or whatever, they don't affect the communication with the mouth unless you really take hold, which would only happen if the horse is pratting about. They are a bit like a flash, more to prevent an evasion and so not in effect unless the horse is evading, which happens on occasion with most mortal and non superhuman riders. The rest of the time they are doing nothing.

A pessoa on the other hand is pretty fixed. You can during a session work the horse in the frame you decide at the start biut cannot respond in an instant while the horse is working in response to how the horse is going (in the way you could with draw reins) In effect - surely out of the 2 gadgets a pessoa is the most fixed and will set the horse in a false outline.

We are not comparing the same thing. For about the tenth time, riding and lunging are competely different. When riding, the rider acts upon the horse to acheive the impulsion and shape required. Not so possible on the lunge.

Incidentally it is entirely possible to get a horse working properly with just a lunge rein and no gadgets at all, you just have to have them properly forward and attentive.

With some horses, yes. Especially those that are already well schooled and muscled correctly, but not your average off the track race horse!

 

[siennamum]

We are not comparing the same thing. For about the tenth time, riding and lunging are competely different. When riding, the rider acts upon the horse to acheive the impulsion and shape required. Not so possible on the lunge.


With some horses, yes. Especially those that are already well schooled and muscled correctly, but not your average off the track race horse!

Maybe that's where we disagree. I think the objectives when riding and lunging are very similar (with the key difference being the riders weight).

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Whats the big deal in arguing over draw reins? Either use them or dont?

 

[cptrayes]

No, I do not believe that a horse throws its head up during transitions because it is being naughty, ever.

And the Princess kissed the frog who turned into a handsome Prince, they got married and lived happily ever after

I get the problem with this argument now. You live on a different planet from me

I think that 99% of ridden schooling problems and evasions are due to the horse either not understanding (rider error), pain, imbalance,or lack of strength.

So do I, except for a fair proportion of feisty fives and silly sixes who evade from sheer high spirits a fair bit more often than that. But even if it was only 1% I still fail to see why I shouldn't take a helpful hand when it's available with the 1%

You query the fact that I seem to think they are used on horses that are not physically able to perform correctly, yet the main example you gave was an off the track thoroughbred throwing its head up during the canter transitions.

Exactly. And I dispute that all those OTT TB's that do throw their heads up in a canter transition during correct retraining lack the physical ability to do it properly. Because when I put draw reins on the ones that I think ARE capable, but which are choosing not to out of lack of understanding that they can, or out of wilfulness, then lo and behold - they CAN do it. And it is with great ease that one can persuade them permanently of their ability to do it and stop using the draw reins.

I say strapping them into draw reins because draw reins are straps which force the horse to keep its head within the limits required by the rider.

So are reins, in bad hands or on a wilful horse. I don't see you saying that no-one should use reins?

And not only that, but you are happy to put yours into a contraption that encloses their whole body, whilst having no feel as a rider (because you are not on it) for what the horse is doing, and only able to see one side of it. Your dual standards are beginning to baffle me, they really are.

 

[cptrayes]

Whats the big deal in arguing over draw reins? Either use them or dont?

Yes but Badgermyers so far those of us who believe that they can be a useful tool have been told that we only need them because we are all overhorsed and because we don't know how to train a horse properly.

So we continue the argument until Wagtail agrees to differ, as I am happy to do at any time she stops effectively accusing me of either abusing the horses I train or being a useless rider

Besides, it's been a foul day and I have nothing better to do

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Yes but Badgermyers so far those of us who believe that they can be a useful tool have been told that we only need them because we are all overhorsed and because we don't know how to train a horse properly.

So we continue the argument until Wagtail agrees to differ, as I am happy to do at any time she stops effectively accusing me of either abusing the horses I train or being a useless rider

Besides, it's been a foul day and I have nothing better to do

Haha fair enough. I use them too in training

 

[annaellie]

I have am not a major fan but used them in my complete t@t of a horse on advice on my instructor for a few weeks. He trained with mark and sandy Phillips and knew his stuff so I used them.
I also used them for my straight off the track ex racer on advice from another instructor who was an international event rider.
They have there places but it's the same as any equipment it's the hands there in.

 

[Wagtail]

And the Princess kissed the frog who turned into a handsome Prince, they got married and lived happily ever after

I get the problem with this argument now. You live on a different planet from me

No, but you are anthropomorphising rather a lot.

So do I, except for a fair proportion of feisty fives and silly sixes who evade from sheer high spirits a fair bit more often than that. But even if it was only 1% I still fail to see why I shouldn't take a helpful hand when it's available with the 1%

I don't think they are helpful if you could do it without. Unless you cannot?

Exactly. And I dispute that all those OTT TB's that do throw their heads up in a canter transition during correct retraining lack the physical ability to do it properly. Because when I put draw reins on the ones that I think ARE capable, but which are choosing not to out of lack of understanding that they can, or out of wilfulness, then lo and behold - they CAN do it. And it is with great ease that one can persuade them permanently of their ability to do it and stop using the draw reins.

And what you are missing is the fact that they have no other choice and therefore using draw reins on those horses that aren't physically able will cause muscle damage as they come against the rein.

So are reins, in bad hands or on a wilful horse. I don't see you saying that no-one should use reins?

So you admit that using draw reins is equivalent to a person with bad hands?

And not only that, but you are happy to put yours into a contraption that encloses their whole body, whilst having no feel as a rider (because you are not on it) for what the horse is doing, and only able to see one side of it. Your dual standards are beginning to baffle me, they really are.

The way I use the pessoa does not force a horse to remain in a higher outline or overbend like in draw reins. You yourself admit to using them to put a horse in hyperflexion. On the contrary, they are stretched over their backs with the lines loose and their noses vertical to the ground. When working through in this way they do not throw their heads up. However, the pessoa is not good for all horses. If they dislike it, then I don't use it. I prefer to longrein most horses in any case, but the pessoa is invaluable for developing top line. It is what most specialist vets prescribe for horses with kissing spines. I have yet to hear a vet prescribe draw reins

 

[PapaFrita]

No offence, but I can't think of a single good reason why anyone would attempt to justify the use of draw-reins to someone who, by their own admission, hates them. That goes for any piece of tack.

 

[Wagtail]

Yes but Badgermyers so far those of us who believe that they can be a useful tool have been told that we only need them because we are all overhorsed and because we don't know how to train a horse properly.

So we continue the argument until Wagtail agrees to differ, as I am happy to do at any time she stops effectively accusing me of either abusing the horses I train or being a useless rider

Besides, it's been a foul day and I have nothing better to do

Firstly, I am simply arguing the points as you raise them. Secondly, I have never ever thought of you as a bad rider. How many times have I told you that you don't need them? I also do not think you are abusive, but that does not mean I think that draw reins are good for your horses. And thirdly, why can you not admit that you could ever be over horsed? I know I can be.

 

[cptrayes]

And what you are missing is the fact that they have no other choice and therefore using draw reins on those horses that aren't physically able will cause muscle damage as they come against the rein.

And you are missing the fact that I know the difference between a horse who can't and a horse who won't.

But of course in your fairytale land there are only horses who can't and none who won't.

So you admit that using draw reins is equivalent to a person with bad hands?

Please don't get stupid Wagtail . I am saying that just because people with bad hands misuse reins, you don't say that we should do without reins. And before you say that's not possible I know two people who have hunted without them.

Yet you want draw reins never to be used just because some people misuse them. But then you do not accept that they can ever properly be used, so that's a lost cause too.

The way I use the pessoa does not force a horse to remain in a higher outline or overbend like in draw reins.

The way I use draw reins does not, (with the exception of one minute a week ago when my horse threw a complete teenage boy paddy), do that either. You seem completely incapable of imagining anyone using draw reins without hauling the horse into an outline.

You yourself admit to using them to put a horse in hyperflexion.

Correct. Once, to ensure that I could stay stable and continue to give the horse instructions where to go and at what speed, for a minute or two. At that point in time it was very handy too

the pessoa is invaluable for developing top line.

Use what you like Wagtail, I wouldn't dream of telling you that you are wrong to use something which works for you and does not hurt the horse. I wish you would accord me the same respect.

You may find it "invaluable" but a pessoa is no more "essential" to create a top line than a pair of scissors. I've never used one and I've always been able to create correct top line.

 

[cptrayes]

Firstly, I am simply arguing the points as you raise them. Secondly, I have never ever thought of you as a bad rider. How many times have I told you that you don't need them? I also do not think you are abusive, but that does not mean I think that draw reins are good for your horses. And thirdly, why can you not admit that you could ever be over horsed? I know I can be.

Oh come on Wagtail, this is getting stupid

One, please don't tell me what I do and don't need. You don't know me and you've never seen me ride.

Two, you have written and repeated that EVERY person who ever uses draw reins uses them because they are overhorsed.

That's a damned long way away from me not being able to admit that I have occasionally been overhorsed myself.

What you have written has been insulting and patronising, to me and others.

Can we just leave it that you are completely unable to see a good use for draw reins and other people are not, without you banging on and on and on with these arguments telling us where we are all going wrong?

 

[Goldenstar]

I just still can't my mind around saying draw riens are unnecessary while lunging the horse in a Pessoa!!!!

 

[cptrayes]

No offence, but I can't think of a single good reason why anyone would attempt to justify the use of draw-reins to someone who, by their own admission, hates them. That goes for any piece of tack.

Other people read these threads too

It's giving some people enjoyment and it's letting some others know that, in the opinion of many people, there is a time and a place for draw reins.

I am happy at any time to accept that Wagtail does not believe that, but she keeps on and on and on coming up with arguments (always the same ones ) why I am wrong.

 

[cptrayes]

I just still can't my mind around saying draw riens are unnecessary while lunging the horse in a Pessoa!!!!

Me neither!

 

[Hollywood]

I agree that the pessoa is a useful training aid - it was recommended by one of the top equine back vets for a friends warm blood that was recovering from back injury. It has proved extremely useful and helped very much in its rehabilitation. However, like any gadget, it was used in the proper way by a professional person.

Having had some experience with racehorses - they are taught to race in a flat outline with their heads stuck out, so most have physically developed to that way of going. To put draw reins on an exracehorse that throws its head around during transitions would be counter productive in the long run and I would say it is probably finding the transitions too difficult because it is not physically capable, IMO. I would think that more time would be needed to encourage it to work long and low (with a pessoa) to develop topline so there would be no use for draw reins.