Dreadful Handing at Arab Show

[Meowy Catkin]

Apparently the handler who blew the whistle initially has a high level meeting with one of the main organising bodies in a few weeks

I really hope that this is the start of a change for the better, yet I fear that this brave person may be put under unbearable pressure.

 

[Cuffey]

Just wish I could hear what the DC with the straw hat and moustache said to handler with no 43 on his back at 1 min 10 sec and if he did hand out a red/yellow card.

Been reading up some of the rules and I find it deplorable that these rules even need to exist.
Surely all the judges need to see are good walk and full movement at trot and of course standing calm, how a judge can award marks with horses plunging round in fear is ridiculous.

''Cruelty
33. Excessive whipping or shanking, excessive stimulation by noise or intimidation, excessive circling
of the horse, use of electric shock devices or infliction of pain by any means is forbidden in all
parts of the showground or stable areas, at all times.
34. The above offences are punishable by issue of a Yellow/Red card''

http://www.ecaho.org/images/pdf/2011/2011_3_rulesforconductofshows.pdf

 

[idx]

I have followed a suggestion on another general horse forum and emailed World Horse Welfare to ask them to express an interest in the current practices in the hope that such an expression of interest from an external powerful animal welfare organisation will focus minds.

Good for you and thank you for taking action. This has opened my eyes completely I had no idea the showing of arabs was so deplorable.

 

[tristar]

most of those horses are under 3 years old, it is very bad for their backs to constantly raise their heads into that position which is causing them to dip their backs.

as i said in my earlier post i cannot imagine why they think the horses look better in that stance, horses forced to adopt an unnatural posture, funny that made think about rollur and draw reins except then the heads go in the opposite direction, i think its time to appreciate the beauty of horses normal posture.

 

[Gingerwitch]

I am amazed that these judges allow this to go on - most of them need to be fleeter of foot than the horses to stop them getting trampled on.

How did this start?
How did it become accepted
and lastly
How can it be stopped -

If any horse behaved like this when I was handling it I would be horrified - I just cannot believe what I was seeing at "top level" - god only knows what the qualifying rounds must be like, and how a horse has not had its jaw snapped or been seriously hurt is beyond me.

I think that the handler number 43 ought to be named and shamed - that poor poor terrified horse - it was barbaric

 

[amandap]

Thanks for that info cuffey. I don't think cards (whatever they mean) are enough for this type of abusive handling. I think immediate disqualification is more suitable.

 

[fburton]

Apparently the second video was posted by a groom to one of the handlers in the first video. It is however worth watching.

These horses are trained to cues. The touch to the forelock in particular strikes me as a cue to say "its okay, its over now". Having watched some of the livefeed from Aachan, sometimes this is a lie and it all starts again - depending on the stage of the class. The horse goes into anxious arousal immediately the cues change.

That is quite striking, isn't it? I completely concur with your interpretation.

Look at the licking and chewing several of them exhibit after the "its okay" cue is given. This is an autonomic nervous system response - beginning to come down from fight/flight and the adrenalin begins to drop.

Great example of L&C. As far as I know, the autonomic story is still a theory (it was my suggestion originally) but it does seem consistent with many observations.

Apparently the handler who blew the whistle initially has a high level meeting with one of the main organising bodies in a few weeks. I have followed a suggestion on another general horse forum and emailed World Horse Welfare to ask them to express an interest in the current practices in the hope that such an expression of interest from an external powerful animal welfare organisation will focus minds.

Good for you! I sincerely hope serious attention is given to this issue.

 

[SusannaF]

I'm in Germany and I couldn't watch most of those videos because the music on them was used illegally. Just a note to anyone who wants German viewers to see what's going on! Lose the music and you'll get a bigger audience.

 

[Avonbrook]

These are the contact details for ECAHO, the organisation that oversaw the All Nations Cup at Aachan (reposted from elsewhere)

E.C.A.H.O. Goethestrasse 61
CH-9008 St. Gallen
Switzerland


Coordinates
of the ECAHO Offices




Gudrun Waiditschka

Exec. Secretary


Entenstrasse 20

73765 Neuhausen a.d.F

Germany




Phone: +49 7158 67141

Fax: +49 7158 65152

email:g.waiditschka@ecaho.org

The more contacts this organisation receives from genuinely concerned individuals as well as organisations, the less isolated Erik Dorssers will be when he meets them.

 

[Perissa]

Handler 43 works for a VERY famous German Stud, and if I remember correctly he is British.

The chap witht eh straw hat is Sven Svensson.

 

[Cuffey]

Handler 43 works for a VERY famous German Stud, and if I remember correctly he is British.

The chap witht eh straw hat is Sven Svensson.

Thanks Perissa

Understand Sven Svensson is a Ringmaster not a DC and clearly a 'good guy''
On another Forum the suggestion for registering complaints is letters rather than emails
Letters to AHS in UK would be passed on

 

[Perissa]

Sven is most definitely a good guy

Personally I think letters are always taken more seriously than an email but that might be because I'm an older generation!

I also think that it is important for a lot of non-arab people complain because if enough do then they simply cannot ignore the public perception of the breed.

Just for the record I think there are a lot of breeds that suffer for the sake of current showing trends, not just arabs. Welsh cob stallions in this country and Tennessee Walking Horses in USA to name a couple.

 

[Petethehunt]

If anyone took a video at any equestrian event, ie racing, 3 day eventing, dressage and just selected the worst bits, horse falling, rider jagging the bit in the mouth or throwing their whip down in a temper tantrum, and we do see this at 3 day eventing ...LOL, then any of these events could be seen in a negative light.
This is my only comment after watching it. A few of those handlers are evil and need castrating but on the whole it is a video made deliberately to upset and angst the world of arab horses, I have no idea why and really couldn't care less.

 

[Tinypony]

If anyone took a video at any equestrian event, ie racing, 3 day eventing, dressage and just selected the worst bits, horse falling, rider jagging the bit in the mouth or throwing their whip down in a temper tantrum, and we do see this at 3 day eventing ...LOL, then any of these events could be seen in a negative light.
This is my only comment after watching it. A few of those handlers are evil and need castrating but on the whole it is a video made deliberately to upset and angst the world of arab horses, I have no idea why and really couldn't care less.

Why post then?

Did you read the thread? Do you realise that isn't just a video of bad bits but that the practises shown in the video far too common, as confirmed by people who have actually been to these shows?

Oh... why bother...

 

[Dirtymare]

If anyone took a video at any equestrian event, ie racing, 3 day eventing, dressage and just selected the worst bits, horse falling, rider jagging the bit in the mouth or throwing their whip down in a temper tantrum, and we do see this at 3 day eventing ...LOL, then any of these events could be seen in a negative light.
This is my only comment after watching it. A few of those handlers are evil and need castrating but on the whole it is a video made deliberately to upset and angst the world of arab horses, I have no idea why and really couldn't care less.

Sadly, this is not the worst bits - its the norm.
I say again, I have been to the Towerlands show and was absolutley horrified. I will never ever go to an Arab show again.
I have also heard that the owners who win shows, win most shows. Its not what you know in the Arab showing world, its who you know. There are some famous people out there who own studs and are very very serious about winning!!
The whole thing is corrupt and cruel.

 

[Fellewell]

H+H did cover the controversy when the seceratary of the *I think* British Arabian Society horse was 'beaten' up in the collecting ring before its class by a 'professional' handler. Does no one remember it? It was either last year or the year before thugh I can't find it on google. It might be on the archives on here. Apprantly most of the society and other professionals couldn't see a problem. I think the horse was a yearling?
Ridden Arabs looks so much nicer, I think its part of the reason why I am not an arab fan, as the inhand arabs are often such inbred scatty freaks due the obession with winning shows at all cost.
The people in the video just want to win and have lost sight of what is best for their horses, a bit like dog showing did/has.

Couldn't agree more, wouldn't be the first time fad and fashion and unscrupulous breeders have all but destroyed a breed. As for dog breeders, anyone remember pugs who can't breathe and spaniels with brains too big for their skulls? Shower of bast***s

 

[EstherYoung]

The whole thing was broadcast live over t'interweb for the three days of the show. I dipped in and out of it and sadly I can confirm that the video isn't 'just' edited lowlights

I can probably count the amount of empathetic handlers I saw on the fingers of one hand. Don't get me wrong, there were some, but they were vastly outnumbered.

 

[foxy1]

Jesstickle clearly has friends in the arab showing world that she doesn't want to upset.

Absolutely shocking footage.

 

[ABC]

Sven is most definitely a good guy

Most definately agree, perhaps people who are complaining can mention him? It would be nice for him to get some credit He is a lovely man, with horses best intentions at heart

 

[jennyf]

Speaking as an ex-show secretary (and BSJA Judge), anyone who has an issue with this kind of thing can report it to the show secretary? It is then down to the show secretary to have words with those concerned, the judges and/or the competitor.

Anyone with a complaint can kick up enough fuss but they do need to have the guts to do it, and sometimes that is not always easy. If you feel strong enough about an issue, threaten to take it to the local paper, or take a video - believe me, that works.

 

[TallyHo123]

I think that's horrible. All the handlers seem like jumped up idiots!!

 

[joelb]

Wondered what all the fuss was about as I’ve never heard of Arab Showing but OMG I’m shocked. The fear reactions in those poor horses wouldn’t look out of place in the stunning pen at a foreign abattoir. Very sad if this is acceptable handling.

 

[Crazydancer]

Speaking as an ex-show secretary (and BSJA Judge), anyone who has an issue with this kind of thing can report it to the show secretary? It is then down to the show secretary to have words with those concerned, the judges and/or the competitor.

The problem here is that it is an international show, and the owners involved are extemely rich and powerful, and this is more about status and power than showing horses.
I read on another forum that someone who wrote an article in an Arab magazine taking a stand against all of this, is now in fear for his life. (Repeating something read, so I don't personally have facts here...)

So if you want to help to stop this, please write or email either the AHS or ECAHO, who are the organisation that oversaw the All Nations Cup at Aachan

E.C.A.H.O. Goethestrasse 61
CH-9008 St. Gallen
Switzerland

Coordinates of the ECAHO Offices
Gudrun Waiditschka
Exec. Secretary
Entenstrasse 20
73765 Neuhausen a.d.F
Germany
email:g.waiditschka@ecaho.org

ARAB HORSE SOCIETY
Windsor House
Ramsbury
Marlborough
Wiltshire
SN8 2PE

We can express feelings on here, which will change nothing, or we can stand up and be counted. There seems to be a growing feeling that things can change if enough people do make a stand, be part of it.

 

[frannieuk]

I'm not a "fluffy" horse owner by any stretch, but that video made for pretty uncomfortable viewing. I wonder how this has become acceptable in the Aran showing world?

 

[idx]

These are the contact details for ECAHO, the organisation that oversaw the All Nations Cup at Aachan (reposted from elsewhere)

E.C.A.H.O. Goethestrasse 61
CH-9008 St. Gallen
Switzerland
Coordinates
of the ECAHO Offices
Gudrun Waiditschka
Exec. Secretary
Entenstrasse 20
73765 Neuhausen a.d.F
Germany

Phone: +49 7158 67141
Fax: +49 7158 65152

email:g.waiditschka@ecaho.org

The more contacts this organisation receives from genuinely concerned individuals as well as organisations, the less isolated Erik Dorssers will be when he meets them.

Thanks I have emailed. I hope others do the same and we can perhaps force change.

 

[jennyf]

I agree Crazdancer, and I have come up against this sort of thing - International, big 'names' etc. But the fact remains that rules and regs. are there for everyone to obey. It might not do any good, but complaints should always be made to the organisers regardless. Bit like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

3 words.........

bunch.of.dicks

 

[furball]

Im glad this thread has appeared on here, there is also one running on horse gossip, may be now some thing might get done? Arabs are viewed in a very narrow fashion in the showing world because of the way they are turned out and handled as are Welsh which are hyped up as much. It is not un common for welsh stallions to be kept in a blacked out stable/ lorry then ran straight in the ring, this goes on at every Royal Welsh show. As does bottle shaking, cattle prodding, and any thing to wind up the horses.

I was unfortunate enough one year to end up next to the welsh ring at one large show, never heard such a god awful carry on in all my life, Arab showing seems to be the same.

 

[Naryafluffy]

this is why so many people have a false impression of the temperament of the Arab horse. They see showing like this and think that Arabs are highly strung flighty beasts.

My sister has an older arab that used to be an endurance horse, it's as stupid as a box of frogs, at 26yo it won't stand for the farrier, won't stand in for the vet and is just generally a bit stupid, I don't know how she tolerates because I would have probably killed it by now.
It has no manners and trying to discipline it is a waste of time as it doesn't seem to be able to learn.
Would have to say though that it's not head shy, not sure about it being frightened of a whip, but then again it's frightened of everything else so why not the whip as well.

 

[Pasha]

I replied on the other thread, but I hate the whole thing. I hate what it does to the reputation of Arabs as a breed and I hate the 'teacup features' of the horses.

The Arab is a war horse. It is a horse who will carry you from one end of the desert to the other. If you treat them with respect, they will get you home, even past the point of pain and exhaustion.

They are wonderful horses, proud, noble and beautiful.

This kind of behaviour makes them look foolish

I agree 100%