Dressage critique please...

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Jericho

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Interested in peoples views on this test if you have the time to look ... it's the Novice 27 ridden by my 13 year old daughter on her 14.2hh Connie. Won't say what score she received but interested in what other people can see in the test / general comments (please do be harsh - seriously not looking for praise/compliments but honest opinions!) I have chopped out some bits mainly because I was videoing the wall, the ceiling, the ponies feet! Many thankies x

https://youtu.be/cxQ-z4SfQLQ
 
I like actually looks like a well ridden test, well done to your daughter. Moving forward there could be a bit more impulsion and softness through the back into the contact there looked like alot of weight on the front end at times and a bit of head tilting. Bit more leg into a stiller consistent contact would help but that is pretty technical tweeking. Think the percentage is pretty good maybe 67-68%
 
Nice test! I agree with ossy about impulsion and softness - he doesn't really appear to be softening/swinging through his back or really pushing himself forwards and up from his hindquarters. I'd like to see more impulsion and an overall sharper look - his transitions aren't bad but he looks to be moseying along rather than really engaging with the movements (it's all a bit "urggghhhh do i have to!?"). Like ossy said, he tilts his head at times and as a result isn't consistent in bending.
 
Very difficult to say without knowing the accuracy as didn't see the full test but I would say a 62% test, pleasing and well ridden but some improvement needed. On the forehand and although the pony appeared to be in an outline, it didn't look happy in the contact or swinging through its back, looked somewhat stiff behind. The extensions looked a bit rushed as did the walk 3-5 steps.
 
She moves her hands to get him to turn/stay to the edge a lot. Noticed them unlevel at times. She could learn how to switch a dressage whip over too as I noticed that she had it on the wrong side a few times but don't think that is overly important. Her legs could be more still as well they move a lot but that's just lack of strength and will develop. Couldnt tell about circle accuracy but maybe check at home as people often get the shape/size wrong. Loved the salute at the end.

Also what the others said but didn't feel like repeating.
 
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JennBags said:
Very difficult to say without knowing the accuracy as didn't see the full test but I would say a 62% test, pleasing and well ridden but some improvement needed. On the forehand and although the pony appeared to be in an outline, it didn't look happy in the contact or swinging through its back, looked somewhat stiff behind. The extensions looked a bit rushed as did the walk 3-5 steps.
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This, two things really stood out to me the pony looked very stiff behind especially off hind, your daughter was riding with her left hand raised suggesting she can feel something is not right and is compensating by trying to "lift" him, I would have liked to see the walk as the few steps we did see were not through, again the off hind and the canter looked stilted and rather earthbound.

Your daughter rides nicely, thoughtfully for her age but looks to be struggling with riding him as he is "making" her ride from her hands and not from her seat and legs, I say that just on the evidence of this video, it seems that the pony is dictating how he wants to go and she is becoming a passenger, not being critical of her riding but she looks stuck in a rut that she does not have the experience to get out of, a few lessons with a good trainer would be useful, if you have a trainer maybe try another to see if fresh eyes help.
 
I judge this level and I would say firstly your daughter rides very nicely but needs to work on Engaging the hind end to create more energy and activity which will improve the overall picture no end.
This is noticeable throughout but esp in canter where the pony is behind the leg and 1/4s in.
It wouldn't be too hard to make the adjustments needed.
Also to mention I saw a reply suggesting she should change her whip over which I would personally say not to do so it doesn't interrupt the flow of a test, however smoothly she can do it!
perhaps a few schoolmaster lessons may help so she gain some more feel for impulsion?
Good luck X
 
I think others have said what I would but yes I would add that I am not aware of anyone that would change a whip hand mid test unless absolutely necessary for some reason!
 
be positive said:
This, two things really stood out to me the pony looked very stiff behind especially off hind, your daughter was riding with her left hand raised suggesting she can feel something is not right and is compensating by trying to "lift" him, I would have liked to see the walk as the few steps we did see were not through, again the off hind and the canter looked stilted and rather earthbound.

Your daughter rides nicely, thoughtfully for her age but looks to be struggling with riding him as he is "making" her ride from her hands and not from her seat and legs, I say that just on the evidence of this video, it seems that the pony is dictating how he wants to go and she is becoming a passenger, not being critical of her riding but she looks stuck in a rut that she does not have the experience to get out of, a few lessons with a good trainer would be useful, if you have a trainer maybe try another to see if fresh eyes help.
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Actually took the words right out of my mouth!
I initially had a few moments when I wasn't sure the pony was fully sound on the off hind, but then came to the conclusion that it appears to be that he doesn't step fully under with this leg, which in turn will tilt his pelvis and throw him onto his shoulder, which is perhaps making your daughter ride him more with her hand to lift him.

Your daughters lower leg is quite busy and makes the pony look like he might be lazier than he actually is and this, combined with the moving hand, makes it appear that he is quite hard work when he actually might not be feeling that underneath her.

That said, they are a nice little partnership and iron out a few niggles with your daughters riding and she will be a tidy jockey. She looks fairly small up there, is she little for her age?
 
You want brutally honest? Very longitudinally stiff pony, head "wagging" a bit, very fixed hand/stiff wrist/forearm and loose, ineffective lower leg. Pony not through and on the forehand throughout. The unlevelness noted by others could be due to stiffness in the back and hindquarters. I could see the scores being from 58% - 60%+. What did the judge give it?
 
Pony looks obedient and your daughter focused. As others have said though she has to do a lot of riding with him. Is the pony old? He seems quite stiff and I'd be slightly worried about that canter, or at least what the canter is showing.

As for a percentage it just depends on the judge I've found some will mark up a accurate uneventful test, even if the pony is stiff and not through. Whereas others would like to see more expression, forwardness and thoroughness at that stage.
 
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Thank you so much for all your comments - it has been really useful to read through them and rewatch the video etc. Soooo... the background is and in answer to some of the questions, the pony comes from a dressage background and knows his moves up to advanced medium but didn't compete much just had a lot of schooling. My daughter is small for her age and we often get comments about ' will be nice partnership when she grows into him'. We were essentially given him about 9 months ago for a number of reasons and my daughter still competes her 13.2 very successfully at Dressage / jumping. He is a total sweetheart and very genuine, we weren't even sure if he jumped when we took him on but he loves it and is jumping 90 confidently both sj and xc which we are very pleased about. But the dressage is still a frustrating struggle - he is quite lazy and shuffles, will always tip on the forehand and not move his backend. He has regular physio and we work hard in hand and on the lunge to help him sit up more - no gadgets - just exercises to lighten the front end, transitions and forwardness all the time. We hack and gallop and work up hills anything that open him out and up. We gave him a break from any schooling to give him a chance to 'let go'. On top of this, his conformation doesn't help - he has a long back and is croup high. His old owner is lovely and often comes to see him although her approach is very different to what we do - it's very much to hold him up and she rides him In a double to lift him. I just don't think daughter can physically or mentally do this at the mkment although she is trying so hard.

Today however made me feel like we had made no progress in the dressage. Unbelievably he won the previous class - the prelim on 69% - daughter rode more forward but because he is very sensitive to aids he did some lovely but not required 2 time changes down the long side in canter. I know some of this comes from daughter as yes her lower leg moves, partly because she still isn't able to wrap her leg round him. In trying to drive him forward he often misinterprets as aids for changing legs or gets cross. And yes that hand is creeping up - a habit that has crept in over last couple of months - and now trying to correct. She has regular lessons but lots of conflicting advice. Her main instructor really gets him moving and he looks fab but then we go to other Bd clinics and they say he is rushing and to lift her hands. Poor girl just doesn't understand anymore - she scored 60% for this novice test that I posted. Judge wasn't that helpful in comments hence why I thought I would post here. After the messy first prelim test yesterday she came out and said I am going to ride the Novice more quietly and thus he shuffled...I'm not sure if I should be getting him a lameness work up, a scope for ulcers, more lessons, different instructor, put her in spurs (although reluctant to do this as her leg is wobbly) or whether it's just a case of plugging on and let her grow into him more, keeping the work varied. So frustrating as he is honestly one of nicest ponies I know and my daughter and him adore each other and she works so hard with him. She loves riding him because he is so responsive to leg and seat position although he needs a lot of leg for impulsion and she loves the challenge and is learning so much. he actually loves his work whether it is schooling or jumping and genuinely wants to please. Sorry for the essay, I hope I don't sound like a pushy mother - we keep our ponies at home so don't often get others opinions other than at lessons etc ( and we often get the remark that she should be winning everything as he is a ready made Dressage pony but the reality is so different!)

Again thank you for your time to watch video and make comments - if you do feel like making any other suggestions please do

Xx
 
If he is an honest pony who is more than capable of what you are asking I would be getting a lameness work up. He is very stiff, at times looks lame and he does not look willing at all and he does not look straight. Your daughter looks to be working very hard and he does not look to be forward off the leg, if he is keen to offer a change of gait or leg then I bet there is a reason as it sounds like he is avoiding working forward and through from behind.
All of the above is affecting your daughters hand and leg stability.
I would try shortening her stirrups a hole or two as they may help stabiliser lower leg.
 
From what you have said I think I would get a vets opinion before pushing on, to a certain extent I think he is trying based on all his previous schooling but only really going through the motions.
 
11 years old. I have taken some video of him working today to show how he is usually ridden at home rather than a test environment and will try and upload in a bit
 
Be interesting to get you or if you don't ride another adult to ride him in a test and see how they get on. He looks a bit porky to me, I wonder if he dropped a bit of weight he wouldn't be so wide for her to sit on which might help. Do you do much work without stirrups (and or reins) might help her sit more quietly.

Also agree swapping whip to the other hand in a competition wouldn't be my idea of a good thing to start doing.
 
Not sure you are allowed to switch whip at bd.

He looks better in the circles - to me that says he needs to be a bit softer on the straight lines with more inside bend. Could deffo be a bit more forward. As he gets sharper off the leg that will probably sort the head tilting too.

Lovely combo tho and some really good moments in the test. She rides a million times better than a lot of teenagers!

I've scored mid sixties for worse tests than that lol.
 
Just seen your reply - I have to say I wonder if he's taking the mick a bit with her little legs. I know sooo many ponies that go like this, and whilst I don't doubt his conformation doesn't help, there may be an element of energy conservation.

Can she get him truly in front of the leg at home? If she takes her leg off he should stay in the same rhythm. I think he would benefit from that. Even if you need a kind mum scootching up behind him with a lunge whip when he starts to shuffle. I find walk/canter/walk helps mine begin to think forwards, as does forward and back within the trot. You could even incorporate little jumps into your schooling sessions.
 
Pigeon said:
Not sure you are allowed to switch whip at bd.
.
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No rule about it, I tend to keep mine on the same side but as horse just upgrade to Medium, she needs a little help 'remembering' her walk piris so I have begun swapping whip at the most opportune moment so I can give her a little tickle on the outside. I'd rather disrupt one step of walk than risk having a sloppy piri.

To the OP, I agree with Cortez I'm afraid - I was expecting pony to be mid 20s tbh and therefore would chime in to say I'd get him the once over from the vet before pressing on.

Assuming all is A-OK, then I'd pick one trainer who 'gets' the pony and can get him moving through his body correctly. Stick with them until pony and daughter have got a good strategy to deliver a supple and through way of going all the time and THEN return to the competition arena. She's going to keep getting disappointed until this is improved IMO, even established ponies need ongoing correct training, just because they know the tricks doesn't make them an easy ride - as she is finding. Good luck, she looks like a dedicated rider for her age so I'm sure you will crack this.
 
What a lovely partnership. I have watched the video twice and my thoughts would be to have a little look at his hocks. There are various moments where he is saving himself and his way of going is suggesting he does not want any weight behind and if I had to guess I would say much older than 11.
 
Jericho said:
Thank you so much for all your comments - it has been really useful to read through them and rewatch the video etc. Soooo... the background is and in answer to some of the questions, the pony comes from a dressage background and knows his moves up to advanced medium but didn't compete much just had a lot of schooling. My daughter is small for her age and we often get comments about ' will be nice partnership when she grows into him'. We were essentially given him about 9 months ago for a number of reasons and my daughter still competes her 13.2 very successfully at Dressage / jumping. He is a total sweetheart and very genuine, we weren't even sure if he jumped when we took him on but he loves it and is jumping 90 confidently both sj and xc which we are very pleased about. But the dressage is still a frustrating struggle - he is quite lazy and shuffles, will always tip on the forehand and not move his backend. He has regular physio and we work hard in hand and on the lunge to help him sit up more - no gadgets - just exercises to lighten the front end, transitions and forwardness all the time. We hack and gallop and work up hills anything that open him out and up. We gave him a break from any schooling to give him a chance to 'let go'. On top of this, his conformation doesn't help - he has a long back and is croup high. His old owner is lovely and often comes to see him although her approach is very different to what we do - it's very much to hold him up and she rides him In a double to lift him. I just don't think daughter can physically or mentally do this at the mkment although she is trying so hard.

Today however made me feel like we had made no progress in the dressage. Unbelievably he won the previous class - the prelim on 69% - daughter rode more forward but because he is very sensitive to aids he did some lovely but not required 2 time changes down the long side in canter. I know some of this comes from daughter as yes her lower leg moves, partly because she still isn't able to wrap her leg round him. In trying to drive him forward he often misinterprets as aids for changing legs or gets cross. And yes that hand is creeping up - a habit that has crept in over last couple of months - and now trying to correct. She has regular lessons but lots of conflicting advice. Her main instructor really gets him moving and he looks fab but then we go to other Bd clinics and they say he is rushing and to lift her hands. Poor girl just doesn't understand anymore - she scored 60% for this novice test that I posted. Judge wasn't that helpful in comments hence why I thought I would post here. After the messy first prelim test yesterday she came out and said I am going to ride the Novice more quietly and thus he shuffled...I'm not sure if I should be getting him a lameness work up, a scope for ulcers, more lessons, different instructor, put her in spurs (although reluctant to do this as her leg is wobbly) or whether it's just a case of plugging on and let her grow into him more, keeping the work varied. So frustrating as he is honestly one of nicest ponies I know and my daughter and him adore each other and she works so hard with him. She loves riding him because he is so responsive to leg and seat position although he needs a lot of leg for impulsion and she loves the challenge and is learning so much. he actually loves his work whether it is schooling or jumping and genuinely wants to please. Sorry for the essay, I hope I don't sound like a pushy mother - we keep our ponies at home so don't often get others opinions other than at lessons etc ( and we often get the remark that she should be winning everything as he is a ready made Dressage pony but the reality is so different!)

Again thank you for your time to watch video and make comments - if you do feel like making any other suggestions please do

Xx
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Nothing else to comment on as others have said it all - get him checked by the vet, I wouldnt recommend spurs just yet as her legs are too weak (not her fault she is young), but as an instructor can get him working nicely, I think he's possibly just being lazy with her as she wont be as strong as an adult.

Just wanted to say its nice to hear that a rider did a bad test and then said she would ride more quietly in the next one. A lot of kids, even adults for that matter, would become tougher on their horse after a bad test. She maybe rode too quietly, but its nice to see that attitude. I am sure she will get better and maybe it is just a case of she needs to grow a bit first. Try shortening her stirrups like someone else said, that might help. Good luck :)
 
I honestly thought you were going to say he was late teens.
Affiliated scoring I think 60% was about right at novice level.
Your daughter is still young and small on him so she naturally will need time and training to get the best out of him, she looks like she has the making of a nice jockey.
My advice would be to get a vet check, it wouldn't surprise me if he has something going on behind, he is stiff and crooked.
 
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