Dressage - lousy score for riding

[pepsimaxrock]

Hi there
Competed my wee mare for the first time since her difficult ( and ongoing ) recovery from colic surgery today. She did brilliantly. Every score was at least 6.5 and plenty of 7.5s and a few 8's. She totally loved it
But there was just one lower score. The collective for my riding. It was 6. So I should be happy - but am gutted.
It just says to me - nice horse lousy rider.
This judge is on the BD trainee programme.
I rode my horse to try and get those high-ish marks. She's an Irish cob not particularly gifted but is nicely forward going and can be rhythmical when asked nicely.
Am quite upset about it.
Any thoughts friends? X

 

[pennandh]

6 is, according to the judging guidelines, a 'satisfactory'. Getting a six for the collective rider mark doesn't mean they thought you were lousy. There should be comments suggesting how you could improve it, but as someone who frequently writes for unaffiliated dressage competitions (we usually use BD-qualified judges, in fairness, but it's less paperwork for the riders), it's usually just little neatness niggles that might very well be caused by you being a little out of practice from the break from competing your mare due to her colic. Sure you'll be back in the swing of things after another competition or two; so try not to let it get you down.

 

[EQUIDAE]

A 6 is better than average. 'Satisfactory'. Don't be too disheartened - I score better on rider marks the less I think about it and more I just relax and enjoy myself

 

[nato]

Gosh I thought when you said lousy you were going to say 4 or something. 6 is a satisfactory score which means you did what was required, and also it was only 0.5 lower than the others which isn't much IMO.

I usually get a 6 for riding when I'm tense or try too hard - I tip forward and legs come back. When I work on that I get a 7. But typically my riding marks are always 0.5 lower than her paces and impulsion

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Firstly, how brilliant to see that she's recovered and is out and about again. I followed your posts in the vet section, you both went through quite an ordeal.

As you said, this is her first test out since the op. She has no idea of the significance so she was probably relaxed and obliviously able to achieve her high marks. You do know the significance. You know how ill she's been and how close you've come to losing her. I don't think it would be unrealistic to expect you to be a bit tense, perhaps overly aware of accidentally hurting her or even over compensating by over-riding.

She may have been ill, but you went through all of the stress, the time off, the touch and go; this happened to you too. I don't think that being ever so slightly of your game is unreasonable.

A six really isn't bad. I'd be happy with that at the moment, and I don't have a colic op behind me.

 

[Goldenstar]

Six means you are at the standard for the level.
I would not give it another thought your horse is sound well and able to go to a competition .
The way to enjoy dressage is to learn always to look at the big picture and don't worry to much about a single mark in a single test .
If you do six tests and get a six on all of them that's the times to start making a plan to get that mark up.
However it's always worth reading the comment and seeing what you can work out from that .

 

[pepsimaxrock]

Thanks everyone. That puts it all in perspective. I'm v v lucky to have her back and competing. A 6 for my riding is more than satisfactory to me. And room for improvement ! X

 

[PorkChop]

Brilliant news that she has recovered so well

Don't be upset, a six is pretty standard as others have said.

Good luck for your next outing

 

[Lyle]

A 6 is certainly a decent score, my horse often outstrips my riding score with his paces score The riding score isn't simply how you sit the horse, but also ring craft and taking into account the training at home. It sounds like as a pair the both of you have been through a lot, which would account for a major blip in your ongoing training, which could have shown as merely a lack of 'polish'. The judge doesn't know it's first time out after a colic ordeal! Onward and Upward I say!

 

[Simon Battram]

Firstly as said well done that she is up and out again.

Although you could say a 6 is satisfactory and not that bad at all I think you have been harsh done by. If the lowest mark in the test is a 6.5 and upwards to some 8's then how can your rider mark be a 6? You were doing the riding that got the higher marks so I don't see how the rider mark can be less than any other mark in the test. Inexperienced judging springs to mind.

 

[pepsimaxrock]

Firstly as said well done that she is up and out again.

Although you could say a 6 is satisfactory and not that bad at all I think you have been harsh done by. If the lowest mark in the test is a 6.5 and upwards to some 8's then how can your rider mark be a 6? You were doing the riding that got the higher marks so I don't see how the rider mark can be less than any other mark in the test. Inexperienced judging springs to mind.

That's exactly what prompted me to post. But other replies made me feel a bit selfish and self centred. Ho hum x

 

[pepsimaxrock]

Firstly as said well done that she is up and out again.

Although you could say a 6 is satisfactory and not that bad at all I think you have been harsh done by. If the lowest mark in the test is a 6.5 and upwards to some 8's then how can your rider mark be a 6? You were doing the riding that got the higher marks so I don't see how the rider mark can be less than any other mark in the test. Inexperienced judging springs to mind.

That's exactly what prompted me to post. But other replies made me feel a bit selfish and self centred. Ho hum x

 

[Mike007]

Me and Bob the nota cob dream of getting scores like that!Bet you havnt had your test stopped on safety grounds! I am not sure if it was Bob chasing the photographer up onto a bank or his attempted "pitch invasion" of the next arena. Think your self lucky to have a talented horse.

 

[Goldenstar]

Firstly as said well done that she is up and out again.

Although you could say a 6 is satisfactory and not that bad at all I think you have been harsh done by. If the lowest mark in the test is a 6.5 and upwards to some 8's then how can your rider mark be a 6? You were doing the riding that got the higher marks so I don't see how the rider mark can be less than any other mark in the test. Inexperienced judging springs to mind.

At the lower levels the tests are simple the natural movement of the horse makes up a larger amount of the mark therefore it's not illogical that the marks can outstrip the rider mark .
Had the mark been below a 6 I would have agreed with you but 6 is mark for you riding at the standard for the level
ETA OP don't dwell on one mark in one test just get out and about and see what happens in future tests

 

[Fuzzypuff]

BD doesn't really have a proper "programme" for trainee judges. There is a pilot one, sort of, in the North I believe, but not in all regions. In most cases you sign up to be a trainee and then you choose when to go on courses. They may have been on every training available or on none, you have no way of knowing. So definitely don't take it too much to heart when they aren't even a listed judge. In the training that I've done I've been taught to only use marks in the collectives that are on the sheet, and that the collectives should reflect the sheet - so if the sheet was all 7s but for one 5, you can't give all 5s in the collectives, it should really be all 7s.

 

[Batgirl]

From a judges perspective it could be looked at that the horse could be getting 8's and the rider could hold it back to a 7. Theoretically and bluntly you could be pants (I wasn't there and didn't see it), the horse could be doing it in spite of you rather than because of you. HOWEVER I would suggest that this was rather low considering - what was the overall percentage of the test? honestly the only way of knowing is to ask that particular judge!

FEI Judges handbook ahs interesting things to say:
8,9,10 - Harmony, lightness and mutual understanding (beautiful partnership). Aids are nearly invisible and the horse reacts to them. Accurate and an appearance of elegance.
7 - Rider can direct an obedient horse with no visible tension, mostly in front of the aids. One or 2 misunderstandings and a little lack of effectiveness in aids.
6 - Rider is not able to influence the horse effectively, exaggerated aids, very inaccurate and not performing some of the key movements effectively.
5 - Rider constantly disturbs the horse or rider is unable to present most of the movements in a satisfactory way or the rider is too rough with the aids.

Those of you who are training I highly recommned it, those of you who are riding I highly recomend it! Worth the £40!

 

[milliepops]

FEI Judges handbook ahs interesting things to say:
8,9,10 - Harmony, lightness and mutual understanding (beautiful partnership). Aids are nearly invisible and the horse reacts to them. Accurate and an appearance of elegance.
7 - Rider can direct an obedient horse with no visible tension, mostly in front of the aids. One or 2 misunderstandings and a little lack of effectiveness in aids.
6 - Rider is not able to influence the horse effectively, exaggerated aids, very inaccurate and not performing some of the key movements effectively.
5 - Rider constantly disturbs the horse or rider is unable to present most of the movements in a satisfactory way or the rider is too rough with the aids.

Those of you who are training I highly recommned it, those of you who are riding I highly recomend it! Worth the £40!

that's fascinating, I didn't know such a thing existed, though now you've mentioned it, it's so obvious! What other kind of things are covered?

 

[Batgirl]

All the movments required and what they should look like and be judged, what each pace should look like, a full section on collectives and how they interrelate with each other and hte marks given - for example if a horse has it's tongue out consistently submission cannot be above a certain mark etc etc

I love it!

 

[milliepops]

It's going on the christmas list

 

[Batgirl]

I put exerpts of it on my random blog on facebook - Arnie & Laura - Musings of an amateur dressage enthusiast and her steed

If you go to the beginning I have put what it says for each of the collectives in a 4 part series

 

[nato]

I put exerpts of it on my random blog on facebook - Arnie & Laura - Musings of an amateur dressage enthusiast and her steed

If you go to the beginning I have put what it says for each of the collectives in a 4 part series

Amazing, thank you batgirl! You have a new follower now

 

[milliepops]

Amazing, thank you batgirl! You have a new follower now

make that 2 :wink3:

 

[Batgirl]

Lol, it is very random jsut be warned!

 

[Simon Battram]

So, a score of: "6 - Rider is not able to influence the horse effectively, exaggerated aids, very inaccurate and not performing some of the key movements effectively."
Means that the movements, scoring between 6.5 and 8, shows that the horse was influenced, to a degree, correctly and that the movements were not inaccurate and as I said, poor judging in my opinion.

 

[Batgirl]

So, a score of: "6 - Rider is not able to influence the horse effectively, exaggerated aids, very inaccurate and not performing some of the key movements effectively."
Means that the movements, scoring between 6.5 and 8, shows that the horse was influenced, to a degree, correctly and that the movements were not inaccurate and as I said, poor judging in my opinion.

Possibly, and generally I would agree but pardon the pun but it is impossible to judge from a riders account of marks alone whether the judging was poor or not - there are a lot of factors that have to be taken into account - for example if there was clicking or use of voice the rider mark must be no more than a 6. The comments should reveal all, not just the marks.

OP was anything underlined - this is often a good indicator of the issue - what does the collective comment say, this should tell you what you need to improve.

The one thing that I always advise people on dressage is that the comments are WAY mroe important than the marks once the actual competition is over and done with.

 

[_GG_]

I can't see that it's been asked yet, but OP - did the comments written on your sheet actually say, "nice horse, lousy rider"?

If that is what the judge had written on your sheet, I would absolutely send it into BD whether it was affiliated competition or not.

Criticism should, without exception, be constructive and for a judge in training to call a competitor a lousy rider is the height of rudeness in my opinion and highly unprofessional. Any judges and officials should be trying to encourage people into the sport, not shaming them out of it and I would think those at BD would very much want to know about a judge telling people that they are lousy riders.

If the above is relevant, then I am genuinely angry on your behalf...it's a disgraceful comment and if you want to write to them, let me help as I know exactly what I would say in a polite, but emphatic manner.

 

[pepsimaxrock]

I can't see that it's been asked yet, but OP - did the comments written on your sheet actually say, "nice horse, lousy rider"?

If that is what the judge had written on your sheet, I would absolutely send it into BD whether it was affiliated competition or not.

Criticism should, without exception, be constructive and for a judge in training to call a competitor a lousy rider is the height of rudeness in my opinion and highly unprofessional. Any judges and officials should be trying to encourage people into the sport, not shaming them out of it and I would think those at BD would very much want to know about a judge telling people that they are lousy riders.

If the above is relevant, then I am genuinely angry on your behalf...it's a disgraceful comment and if you want to write to them, let me help as I know exactly what I would say in a polite, but emphatic manner.

Haha no she didn't write that!! That's my interpretation of great marks for the horse nothing below 6.5 until she had to mark my riding. Then it was a 6.
Maybe I did click - it's a bad habit - but shouldn't she have said? How otherwise do you learn?
One word underlined 'consistent'.

 

[pepsimaxrock]

I am in the North

 

[EQUIDAE]

Haha no she didn't write that!! That's my interpretation of great marks for the horse nothing below 6.5 until she had to mark my riding. Then it was a 6.
Maybe I did click - it's a bad habit - but shouldn't she have said? How otherwise do you learn?
One word underlined 'consistent'.

It is assumed that if you are competing that you will already know the rules - talking and clicking is a no-no. Once thing you can do though is train the horse to a hum instead of a click - this can then be done discretely. Not that I'm advocating cheating of course

 

[Mooseontheloose]

I've done a lot of writing over the years for judges from list 6 to two, and one thing I've found is that new judges tend to be harsher than some higher up the list. I thought it would be the other way round, but I think sometimes new judges are filled with evangelical fervour and like to be very judgemental and judge from the bottom mark up, whereas the higher list judges tend to see where the rider/horse has lost marks and judge from 10 down, if that makes sense.
This is a generalisation, and I've never written for higher than medium tests, but this is how it appears to me.