Dunne v Frost

[Rowreach]

"Lewis Piper said Frost remained in the male changing room after the incident. "If she was distressed surely she would have gone to her own room and hid away?" he said."

Why the hell should she?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Ahh you have to hide away to be distressed, noted.

They couldn't have used a worse term than hid away.

My take on that would be - if she was offended by men walking around stark bullock naked then she would have swiftly left the male changing room. But the turn of phrase - Hid Away - is doing nothing for this case other than to make even more men look bad.

 

[Fred66]

They couldn't have used a worse term than hid away.

My take on that would be - if she was offended by men walking around stark bullock naked then she would have swiftly left the male changing room. But the turn of phrase - Hid Away - is doing nothing for this case other than to make even more men look bad.

Agree. BHA have a case to answer however in respect of changing facilities. If the valets were in the female changing area and men felt free to walk in and out when women were changing there would be an outcry. The valets should be in a neutral area where people visiting them should be required to display a modicum of decorum.

 

[BronsonNutter]

Agree. BHA have a case to answer however in respect of changing facilities. If the valets were in the female changing area and men felt free to walk in and out when women were changing there would be an outcry. The valets should be in a neutral area where people visiting them should be required to display a modicum of decorum.

^ This. Maybe the male jockeys don't always want women wandering in to 'their' changing rooms either!

I'm not saying Dunne is squeaky clean, but if I was on a horse that was fatally injured in a fall where I perceived another jockey to be at fault then I'd blow my lid at them too. I expect he would have spoken to a male jockey in the same way if it had been someone else perceived to be at fault. Racing is dangerous - people need to know if they're riding dangerously. They clearly don't get on (and from the looks of it, a lot of people in racing don't like Frost) - gender doesn't seem to come into it?

 

[Rowreach]

^ This. Maybe the male jockeys don't always want women wandering in to 'their' changing rooms either!

I'm not saying Dunne is squeaky clean, but if I was on a horse that was fatally injured in a fall where I perceived another jockey to be at fault then I'd blow my lid at them too. I expect he would have spoken to a male jockey in the same way if it had been someone else perceived to be at fault. Racing is dangerous - people need to know if they're riding dangerously. They clearly don't get on (and from the looks of it, a lot of people in racing don't like Frost) - gender doesn't seem to come into it?

Ah, so it’s ok to be abusive and threatening to someone you don’t like. You’d get on well with my ex-boss.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

There is a lot more in today's report than the simple line - she should have gone back to her room and hid away.

The bha guy in charge at the time, leaked loads of the issue and then quit was called in to answer questions about why a fair bit of statements made are missing or noted down rather than written to their full extent. Also questions about his relationship with Frost's father have been asked with regards to him asking for certain things - namely an apology - to be removed from the records.

There is still a lot to be said and done with this case. The bha have allocated 6 days to it in total so we are only half way through.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

In almost all weighing rooms there is a separate female changing room but yes the valets work bench is in the men's. This does need to change. They should have it sectioned off with easy access to both genders of jockeys.

 

[Steerpike]

As Mick Fitzgerald said previously on the Morning show there is a difference between giving someone a rollicking and telling them what they did wrong to hopefully learn from it and bullying, by the sounds of it Dunne has stepped over the line in the continual harassment of Frost.

 

[ester]

Was it his job to give the rollocking though (stewards?!) it doesn't matter that he would have done the same to a male jockey if he shouldn't be doing it at all.

 

[BronsonNutter]

Ah, so it’s ok to be abusive and threatening to someone you don’t like. You’d get on well with my ex-boss.

If it was a one-off, heat-of-the-moment thing I’d say shouting at someone if you perceive their negligence to have killed a horse you were riding and endangered your life isn’t that unreasonable?

Yes, it should be the stewards job to do that. Yes, he has stepped over the line by persistently hounding her.

Please re-read my post. I never said it was acceptable just because you didn’t like someone… I said they clearly didn’t like each other but gender didn’t seem to come into it?

 

[Rowreach]

If it was a one-off, heat-of-the-moment thing I’d say shouting at someone if you perceive their negligence to have killed a horse you were riding and endangered your life isn’t that unreasonable?

Yes, it should be the stewards job to do that. Yes, he has stepped over the line by persistently hounding her.

Please re-read my post. I never said it was acceptable just because you didn’t like someone… I said they clearly didn’t like each other but gender didn’t seem to come into it?

But it wasn’t a one-off.

 

[ycbm]

What an interesting choice of title for the thread. It is the British Horseracing Authority taking the case against Dunne, not Frost. This is BHA v. Dunne. She is what is normally referred to as "the victim", especially when one charge has already been admitted.
.

 

[Velcrobum]

^ This. Maybe the male jockeys don't always want women wandering in to 'their' changing rooms either!

I'm not saying Dunne is squeaky clean, but if I was on a horse that was fatally injured in a fall where I perceived another jockey to be at fault then I'd blow my lid at them too. I expect he would have spoken to a male jockey in the same way if it had been someone else perceived to be at fault. Racing is dangerous - people need to know if they're riding dangerously. They clearly don't get on (and from the looks of it, a lot of people in racing don't like Frost) - gender doesn't seem to come into it?

But the stewards decided her riding was not at fault in that incident apparently.

 

[Velcrobum]

As OP apologies my bad for poor thread header. I stand corrected it is indeed BHA v Dunne.

 

[ycbm]

As OP apologies my bad for poor thread header. I stand corrected it is indeed BHA v Dunne.

I didn't mean to make you feel bad, I thought it was a reflection on how this is being seen within racing circles. It doesn't appear as if being the victim, or even just a witness, in this case is foremost in racing people's minds, if it's in them at all. I think you just picked up on that.
.

 

[TheOldTrout]

Another jockey - Hannah Welch - has now spoken out against Dunne.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...dunne-contributed-to-her-leaving-horse-racing

 

[fankino04]

Well neither of them are coming out of this looking good! I think the blowing up at her after his horse died could probably be taken out of the equation but if he has bullied and intimidated her at other times then he needs to pay the price for that, and if her riding is regularly as dangerous as him and now maybe others are staring then instead of letting rip they need to be reporting each and every occasion of this for her to be dealt with.

 

[bonny]

Well neither of them are coming out of this looking good! I think the blowing up at her after his horse died could probably be taken out of the equation but if he has bullied and intimidated her at other times then he needs to pay the price for that, and if her riding is regularly as dangerous as him and now maybe others are staring then instead of letting rip they need to be reporting each and every occasion of this for her to be dealt with.

Every single race is scrutinised by the stewards, they look into every incidence and every fall to see if blame can be attached. It’s a dangerous sport and safety is paramount, I have never been aware of Bryony being a danger to anyone and if she was the stewards would come down very heavily on her.
It seems to me that what has been going on is personal, it is bullying and I hope they throw the book at him.

 

[Andie02]

I do not think that Bryony would be getting rides in Grade 1's for Paul Nicholls if he thought that her riding is dangerous, and considering that she is booked to ride for Willie Mullins in Ireland on Sunday also a Grade 1, I would think that he must be happy enough with her riding.

 

[tristar]

She's stuck up her own backside, expects people to bow down before her and isn't a nice person when there isn't a camera pointed at her. First hand experience.

BUT

No one deserves to be bullied, no one deserves to be threatened or treated badly. No one deserves to be judged before the full story is heard.

There are 2 sides to this story. Only 1 side has been heard so far.

to be fair she is an outgoing personality.

she is in a tough game, that calls for tough thinking at the racecourse, perhaps she blocks out everything else, i know i do when i ride certain horses, its like i don`t see or hear those around me, i call it total focus, perhaps she has a dose of that, it helps with self preservation and contributes to success, because on a horse you have to go all the way and give everything to that horse and that race

and all that both sides of the story, i have often found involve a victim and a perpetrator, and sometimes the victim becomes the baddy

not saying you are wrong but i do feel the circumstances, ie. a very tense, almost unique place where in ten minutes time you could be a hero or lying on floor with a broken neck is handled by an individual in their own way, i mean its not `tele shopping`` chatter time with distraction, being nicey nicey, it really is put your mind in gear because this is as high as it gets in racing and she is a girl after all

and this is supposed to be sport, my backside, in any true sport the participants always show a sense of respect and friendliness

and who wants to see him bare yuk!

 

[Velcrobum]

This testimony is fairly damming and some of the jockeys do not appear to be doing themselves any favours either.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/lat...st-out-of-the-ordinary-fence-attendant/525045

 

[ycbm]

if her riding is regularly as dangerous as him and now maybe others are staring then instead of letting rip they need to be reporting each and every occasion of this for her to be dealt with.

I find it very difficult to believe that they wouldn't already have done that if she rode dangerously.
.

 

[Parrotperson]

If it was a one-off, heat-of-the-moment thing I’d say shouting at someone if you perceive their negligence to have killed a horse you were riding and endangered your life isn’t that unreasonable?

Yes, it should be the stewards job to do that. Yes, he has stepped over the line by persistently hounding her.

Please re-read my post. I never said it was acceptable just because you didn’t like someone… I said they clearly didn’t like each other but gender didn’t seem to come into it?

But it wasn’t a one off thing that’s the problem. He has carried on amusing himself by being a bully for several years…..

 

[Keep Trying]

What ever both sides of this situation are, they clearly highlight just how insular and backward the industry still is. Maybe there will be a positive outcome here and racing will be forced to drag it's sorry arse into the 21st century once and for all.

 

[Mule]

He sounds like a nasty piece of work. Can't believe what female jockeys have to put up with.

 

[Rowreach]

I'm doing a fair amount of work at the moment for Women in Sport, and not only my own experiences, but all the others I'm hearing, shows that this type of behaviour is alive and kicking. It's aided and abetted by those who choose to overlook it, see it as the way it's always been, are too scared of the bullies to call them out, or too scared (usually other women) of becoming the next target.

And the women who do stand up, do expose the bullies, do call into question the integrity of their organisations and their whole sport, they are never considered a victim, they are just gobby opinionated entitled females who are only out to cause trouble and attention seek. Been there, lost my job over it.

 

[TheOldTrout]

I'm doing a fair amount of work at the moment for Women in Sport, and not only my own experiences, but all the others I'm hearing, shows that this type of behaviour is alive and kicking. It's aided and abetted by those who choose to overlook it, see it as the way it's always been, are too scared of the bullies to call them out, or too scared (usually other women) of becoming the next target.

And the women who do stand up, do expose the bullies, do call into question the integrity of their organisations and their whole sport, they are never considered a victim, they are just gobby opinionated entitled females who are only out to cause trouble and attention seek. Been there, lost my job over it.

There's a lot of ignorance over it too. Just yesterday I was reading a post on LinkedIn with someone complaining about a girls only go-karting session, claiming it was discrimination. Although one or two people (white and male, no surprises there) agreed with the post, there were more people arguing against it and saying about the need for safe spaces in which people can practise sport (or do other things). You'd think the racism in cricket scandal would have shown that poster why some people might prefer segregated spaces, but apparently not...

 

[planete]

And another sportswoman on the receiving end https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...judo-stars-coach-cleared-of-domestic-violence.

 

[Parrotperson]

I'm doing a fair amount of work at the moment for Women in Sport, and not only my own experiences, but all the others I'm hearing, shows that this type of behaviour is alive and kicking. It's aided and abetted by those who choose to overlook it, see it as the way it's always been, are too scared of the bullies to call them out, or too scared (usually other women) of becoming the next target.

And the women who do stand up, do expose the bullies, do call into question the integrity of their organisations and their whole sport, they are never considered a victim, they are just gobby opinionated entitled females who are only out to cause trouble and attention seek. Been there, lost my job over it.

yep. this. 100%. well said. and argued.

 

[Parrotperson]

And another sportswoman on the receiving end https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...judo-stars-coach-cleared-of-domestic-violence.

this is awful! Poor girl. she's living in terror now of what he might do next.