Dunne v Frost

[bonny]

I don’t see they had any choice but to find him guilty, I just hope he gets a serious ban not a rap on the knuckles.

 

[Andie02]

He is booked to ride at Cheltenham on Saturday for his brother on a horse called 'Pretty Little Liar' .......apart from 'Pretty' ......how very apt !!!

 

[Parrotperson]

I don't doubt that this is a case of the 'princess' versus the MCP but she has had a ban for careless riding and I think this is one of his grievances. A lot of bickering could be cleared up by an outright disqualification for interference. Jockeys get a ban and lose a few days pay but the win still stands. A demotion that affected trainers , owners and the punters might focus the mind on less drifting and carelessness and more attention on actually seeing a gap.
As for the name calling, well these are Irish terms of endearment. Who can forget: You're a bum, you're a punk, you're an old slut on junk, lying there almost dead with that drip in that bed. You scumbag you maggot you cheap lousy (mixture of beef and pork with breadcrumbs and sliced onions)
Keeping it seasonal

But then make me a jockey inc dunne who hasn’t had a ban for careless riding at some point!

are you referring to fa***ts?! ????

 

[Velcrobum]

The updated report and it is very damming about Dunne.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/lat...-charges-in-bryony-frost-bullying-case/526196

 

[Velcrobum]

As he has been found guilty of all four of the more serious charges the three others of which one he had pleaded guilty to, have been set aside. The jockeys that backed him have all been criticised by the panel as well!! Awaiting to see how long he gets banned for and it will be interesting to see if he gets warned off as well.

Just seen this "The panel is set to hear submissions on penalties from the BHA and from Dunne's legal representatives after 2pm."

 

[Steerpike]

It's just been on the lunchtime news.

 

[Shilasdair]

Just read the Racing Post article, and three points stood out;

1. Dunne was clearly not believed by the panel - 'unable to accept Mr Dunne's sweep of denials, criticisms and his reasoning'
2. The panel was clearly also unimpressed by the witnesses who spoke on his behalf 'we have real concern that what was referred to by Mr Weston as the 'weighing room culture' is deep-rooted and coercive, and in itself is not conducive to the good health and the development of of modern day race-riding '.
3. In contrast Frost was found to be 'truthful, careful and compelling'

A great result for women in racing - and more widely.

 

[Rowreach]

Just read the Racing Post article, and three points stood out;

1. Dunne was clearly not believed by the panel - 'unable to accept Mr Dunne's sweep of denials, criticisms and his reasoning'
2. The panel was clearly also unimpressed by the witnesses who spoke on his behalf 'we have real concern that what was referred to by Mr Weston as the 'weighing room culture' is deep-rooted and coercive, and in itself is not conducive to the good health and the development of of modern day race-riding '.
3. In contrast Frost was found to be 'truthful, careful and compelling'

A great result for women in racing - and more widely.

BF has done more for women in sport than she will probably ever realise.

I am sickened by the women sticking up for Dunne, even now.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

As for the name calling, well these are Irish terms of endearment.

Really???? Well I don't know which part of Ireland you are from or who you mix with, but I can assure you if anyone around this way called me by the names that little gobshite of a jockey used they would have pretty soon regretted it! And not at my hand either. We do have a few Irish gentlemen you know, they don't all behave like this gobshite did to that young woman, nor do they use the language quoted from that song that is supposedly about a down and out alcoholic and his wife!

 

[bonny]

Just read the Racing Post article, and three points stood out;

1. Dunne was clearly not believed by the panel - 'unable to accept Mr Dunne's sweep of denials, criticisms and his reasoning'
2. The panel was clearly also unimpressed by the witnesses who spoke on his behalf 'we have real concern that what was referred to by Mr Weston as the 'weighing room culture' is deep-rooted and coercive, and in itself is not conducive to the good health and the development of of modern day race-riding '.
3. In contrast Frost was found to be 'truthful, careful and compelling'

A great result for women in racing - and more widely.

I think she’s been incredibly brave doing this but I worry that it won’t end well for either of them. I suspect it will lead to sweeping changes both in actions and hopefully attitudes which is so clearly needed but I fear she will pay a hard price for her bravery.
Racing must be about the last industry where men get to act like they do and everybody turns a blind eye.

 

[Shilasdair]

I think she’s been incredibly brave doing this but I worry that it won’t end well for either of them. I suspect it will lead to sweeping changes both in actions and hopefully attitudes which is so clearly needed but I fear she will pay a hard price for her bravery.
Racing must be about the last industry where men get to act like they do and everybody turns a blind eye.

This result indicates that no, men don't get to act like they do - no blind eye has been turned here.
And hopefully, that's the start of change.

 

[bonny]

This result indicates that no, men don't get to act like they do - no blind eye has been turned here.
And hopefully, that's the start of change.

I think the lack of support that she got shows how everyone was turning a blind eye, it shows how backward thinking racing is that other jockeys couldn’t see that things had to change.

 

[Shilasdair]

I think the lack of support that she got shows how everyone was turning a blind eye, it shows how backward thinking racing is that other jockeys couldn’t see that things had to change.

I agree that racing needed to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.

This BBC report is even more damning of the patriarchal culture in racing - BBC news

 

[honetpot]

I think a lot of women go into the racing industry, because they love horses, and it is one of the few equine industries where you get a set rate of pay, and it's usually steady work. Even then women are routinely treated badly, my friend had to fight for her maternity pay, even though she was entitled to it, I think there is a background under currant that women are being done a favour.

 

[paddy555]

As for the name calling, well these are Irish terms of endearment. Who can forget: You're a bum, you're a punk, you're an old slut on junk, lying there almost dead with that drip in that bed. You scumbag you maggot you cheap lousy (mixture of beef and pork with breadcrumbs and sliced onions)
Keeping it seasonal

my favourite Christmas song of all time. Lets hope they never remove the F word. Your mixture of beef etc doesn't fit in very well with the tune.

 

[tristar]

they have demeaned her and dragged her down into a hearing, but i hope she feels she comes out of it with some justice and that it was worth it, how could it have gone any longer?

having known men like this it always amazes me how they go on doing their thing in full knowledge of everyone around them.

rise above it gal, well done for having the courage

 

[Shilasdair]

I see some jockeys (Geraghty, Cawley) are crawling out of the woodwork to say that THEY never had a problem in the weighing room, THEY never experienced misogynism, that the weighing room was, for THEM, a great place to be, THEY have never had a problem with men waving penises at them, either presumably.

While other jockeys (Kelleway) are saying it is '40 years too late'.

If only I could work out who were the lucky penis-owners from the above....

They can't help themselves, can they, the fools?

 

[Andie02]

18 months ban, 3 months suspended announced on Racing TV

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Definite echoes of Yorkshire Cricket Club in that witnesses simply could not see that was happening was wrong.

 

[Velcrobum]

I wonder if that ban extends to Ireland I am assuming there is reciprocity. I think he got off fairly lightly given he was found guilty of 4 separate charges. No financial penalty either!! I wonder if BHA is going to have to have a steward supervising the weighing room at all times to pull the other misogynists up on their behaviour. Perhaps they need to adopt the mindset of "would I like my mum, wife or daughter spoken to like that?"

 

[Andie02]

I wonder if that ban extends to Ireland I am assuming there is reciprocity. I think he got off fairly lightly given he was found guilty of 4 separate charges. No financial penalty either!! I wonder if BHA is going to have to have a steward supervising the weighing room at all times to pull the other misogynists up on their behaviour. Perhaps they need to adopt the mindset of "would I like my mum, wife or daughter spoken to like that?"

His legal fees will be extortionate. Agree, he got off lightly.

 

[ArklePig]

I don't doubt that this is a case of the 'princess' versus the MCP but she has had a ban for careless riding and I think this is one of his grievances. A lot of bickering could be cleared up by an outright disqualification for interference. Jockeys get a ban and lose a few days pay but the win still stands. A demotion that affected trainers , owners and the punters might focus the mind on less drifting and carelessness and more attention on actually seeing a gap.
As for the name calling, well these are Irish terms of endearment. Who can forget: You're a bum, you're a punk, you're an old slut on junk, lying there almost dead with that drip in that bed. You scumbag you maggot you cheap lousy (mixture of beef and pork with breadcrumbs and sliced onions)
Keeping it seasonal

Yeah, no that song was about a miserable emigrant couple who hated each other and their situation.

Referring to most Irish people by those words, myself included, would earn you a shoe up the hole.

As for today's judgment- I am delighted. I don't care if Bryony Frost is a thundering b*** or the nicest person in racing. It doesn't matter. What happened to her is never okay, despite some people on this forum seeming to think she had it coming for... *checks notes* being enthusiastic about her job, getting the job done and not taking any sh1t.

 

[Andie02]

I see some jockeys (Geraghty, Cawley) are crawling out of the woodwork to say that THEY never had a problem in the weighing room, THEY never experienced misogynism, that the weighing room was, for THEM, a great place to be, THEY have never had a problem with men waving penises at them, either presumably.

While other jockeys (Kelleway) are saying it is '40 years too late'.

If only I could work out who were the lucky penis-owners from the above....

They can't help themselves, can they, the fools?

Maybe THEY didn't have problems, or see anything occurring.

Clearly Gay Kellaway DID have problems.

 

[Sanversera]

Banned for 18 months, good news

 

[ycbm]

I see some jockeys (Geraghty, Cawley) are crawling out of the woodwork to say that THEY never had a problem in the weighing room, THEY never experienced misogynism, that the weighing room was, for THEM, a great place to be, THEY have never had a problem with men waving penises at them, either presumably.

I've tried to find out who these jockeys are because I had never heard of them and assumed therefore that they had never ridden top flight horses, so were no threat to the men, and their experiences weren't as relevant as a woman who had.

But I can only find male jockeys with those names. Why do they think their experiences are of any relevance, when they were part of the very culture that was so ingrained that it never even noticed how toxic it was, and presented its own ingrained toxicity as a defence when finally challenged in a tribunal?
.

 

[ester]

It's the male jockeys

it's on the radio 4 hourly news.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

She’s a tough, resilient cookie to take all this on and be riding a winner while the decision was imminent.

 

[Andie02]

I've tried to find out who these jockeys are because I had never heard of them and assumed therefore that they had never ridden top flight horses, so were no threat to the men, and their experiences weren't as relevant as a woman who had.

But I can only find male jockeys with those names. Why do they think their experiences are of any relevance, when they were part of the very culture that was so ingrained that it never even noticed how toxic it was, and presented its own ingrained toxicity as a defence when finally challenged in a tribunal?
.

I cannot believe that you haven't heard of Barry Geraghty, one of the top Irish jockeys, though he has been retired now since July 2019, having last ridden at Cheltenham March 2019 (due to covid). 2nd to Ruby Walsh in the winning most Cheltenham Festival Jockeys table with 43 victories. Alan Cawley is still riding though mainly in the north.
Gay Kellaway has been training for many years.

 

[Old school]

I wonder if that ban extends to Ireland I am assuming there is reciprocity. I think he got off fairly lightly given he was found guilty of 4 separate charges. No financial penalty either!! I wonder if BHA is going to have to have a steward supervising the weighing room at all times to pull the other misogynists up on their behaviour. Perhaps they need to adopt the mindset of "would I like my mum, wife or daughter spoken to like that?"

I think that type of man speaks to all women like that. Once it gets one snigger from an onlooker, they believe that they have support. They are stupid enough to think it is amusing. There are plenty like him, unfortunately. And the racing industry has always fallen short in calling out this behaviour. I wonder how many times Bryony was told 'not to make a fuss'.

 

[Velcrobum]

A quote from the chair of the independent panel a damming observation!!

"In the course of the days of this hearing you have adopted an aggressive attack on her personality in order to seek to justify your actions"