dying pony on dartmoor

[Patterdale]

Me neither! Never seen hill sheep??

The weak ones will die and the strong ones thrive and breed. That's no ones fault, that's nature.

Mollycoddling them will only cause more problems in the future when the weaker animals are allowed to breed and thus create more problems.

Feral horses and natural selection is 'natural horsemanship' at it's base level. It's not cruel, it's nature.

 

[Goldenstar]

Me neither! Never seen hill sheep??

The weak ones will die and the strong ones thrive and breed. That's no ones fault, that's nature.

Mollycoddling them will only cause more problems in the future when the weaker animals are allowed to breed and thus create more problems.

Feral horses and natural selection is 'natural horsemanship' at it's base level. It's not cruel, it's nature.

Exactly . It's nature and in many ways these ponies are lucky.

 

[Potato!]

It's not against the law for dartmoor ponies to not have passports while on the moor. Ponies have to be issued a passport when they leave the moors

 

[Patterdale]

Perhaps they should all be stabled and strip grazed?
They'd probably be FAR happier then.....

 

[ELFSBELLS]

Queenbee, put it better than I ever could !!!

 

[Queenbee]

If Dartmoor ponies should be checked once weekly, how often would you suggest the red deer on Exmoor should be checked?

And how far do you extend this duty of care? Surely, all animals have feelings and should therefore be treated with equal compassion? Or is it only the one's that appeal to our baser instincts that deserve our special care?

Should I be carrying out a weekly health check on the rabbits that eat my crops and demolish the banks of my ditches?

Yes, I know this is all nonsense but in the current context the logic is perfectly reasonable. Dartmoor ponies are what they are because the sick, weak, and old die (or are removed) because they can't cope with the harsh conditions. Those that survive are the tougher ones and I don't really think it makes a lot of difference whether they are coloured or not.

It is a very cruel method of selection, but that is Nature and Nature is ruthless. Frankly, I'd rather see that than a breed deteriorate and be destroyed by "The Fancy" -- and I'm sure that needs no explanation.

do you own the rabbits that eat your crops? If you do, then Im sure I can find a welfare act for rabbits... although Im pretty sure they are WILD and not owned by you... Thats where natural selection does come in. DR I think perhaps you are getting a bit petty and throwing your toys out of your cot since your views appear to be in the minority according to my poll

 

[Tinseltoes]

Ok what happens to the ponies after they have been rounded up, Are they bred for meat??

 

[guesstimation]

Ok what happens to the ponies after they have been rounded up, Are they bred for meat??

Some go through market and are sold, some rescue centres help to find homes for like HOPE, and some are for meat mainly used by the zoos.

 

[Tinseltoes]

Some go through market and are sold, some rescue centres help to find homes for like HOPE, and some are for meat mainly used by the zoos.

Thats very sad they end up in zoos or for meat.

 

[Goldenstar]

Perhaps they should all be stabled and strip grazed?
They'd probably be FAR happier then.....

And muzzled of course.

 

[Queenbee]

And muzzled of course.

Im pretty certain that that is an entirely different topic altogether, perhaps you would like to start a new thread on it?

Just a question or 2 for you?

Does someone own these ponies?

Do you think that ownership makes them responsible for the welfare of these ponies?

 

[Goldenstar]

Im pretty certain that that is an entirely different topic altogether, perhaps you would like to start a new thread on it?

Just a question or 2 for you?

Does someone own these ponies?

Do you think that ownership makes them responsible for the welfare of these ponies?

I honestly don' t know who owns these ponys I know they don't require passports until they come off the moor .
of course it's a sad story but these are feral ponies I have no idea if they can catch them do their teeth or if they try to group worm them when they pen them up to get the youngsters out the herds.
Do I think that a lot of veterinary intervention in a feral pony could cause a lot of stress and unhappiness to the pony yes .
But the foal was extremely lucky and it's is clear from the thread that are people trying to improve the management of the herds .
I was in New Mexico once the rancher had a big herd of horses which got he got here and there ,many had bad pasts many where saved from a long trip to slaughter they where turned out in huge herds on his high ranch and pretty well returned to nature they would die ,get eaten by wolves if they where lame ,all sorts of things but they ran free now and again he would round them up and pick out some to try for work but basically he collected horses .
The first time I saw the herd we had left camp early in the morning and where riding round the side I'd hill then below us in the early morning mist the herd was moving toward a watering hole before us it was magical moment the lead mare with her foal was in front , his stallion ( a TB gone native ) out a little to the side you could hear the grass cracking under their feet our horses called to them some called back but they pretty well ignored us .
DO I think it's a given that our stabled pampered horse at risk from obesity, shoe induced lameness, COPD etc etc are luckier than these feral horses as long as the feral one have enough space to roam to find food I don't think it's a question with a black and white answer.

 

[paddy555]

Im pretty certain that that is an entirely different topic altogether, perhaps you would like to start a new thread on it?

Just a question or 2 for you?

Does someone own these ponies?

Do you think that ownership makes them responsible for the welfare of these ponies?

yes all the ponies have owners.

the ponies are managed as semi feral herds. They are not managed as domestic horses. There is a very big difference.

A lot of the suggestions for checking them and dealing with problems are just impractical. Someone suggested a bag of feed. What on earth is a semi feral mare going to do with that except run a mile.
The mares on the more remote areas are very nervous and wild. It would take several months to even get near one if it was enclosed.
I don't think some of the people commenting have ever moved stock on the moor or have an idea of the scale of the commons.
What are you going to do when day after day the mist is so thick you can only see 100yds ahead. What about the ponies who get into the forests and live in there? how on earth are you going to check them. On many areas it is like looking for a needle in the haystack.

Go on the north moor. It may take half a day to find ponies. Even if you find a poorly one what on earth are you going to do with it?
I am afraid some die and other creatures eat them. As I ride daily on the moor I would really rather not have marksmen shooting ponies at a quarter of a mile range. Unless it was a clean fatal shot you would just be left with an badly injured pony.

 

[Dry Rot]

do you own the rabbits that eat your crops? If you do, then Im sure I can find a welfare act for rabbits... although Im pretty sure they are WILD and not owned by you... Thats where natural selection does come in. DR I think perhaps you are getting a bit petty and throwing your toys out of your cot since your views appear to be in the minority according to my poll

I am watching this thread with interest to see what you propose to do about the sheep on the uninhabited Scottish islands.

Do you intend to supply the owners with their own helicopters so they can fly out to check on their sheep once a week?

Your ideas are all very nice but I fear you are totally out of touch with reality.

 

[Potato!]

Hear hear dry rot

 

[mulledwhine]

I agree with mostly all topics :I sitting in the fence as usual

What confuses me is that most people are saying the ponies are wild and terrified of humans, have I got that right? .....

And we are not supposed to put human emotions on animals!!! I agree with that also....

So baring that in mind, why was a ' wild' pony able to have the prescence of mind to think ' ok, I am think I am not able to look after my baby for much longer, I know! I will walk for 5 days to put my baby into the hands of something I am scared of' it does not make sense

I am starting to think that that pony has had a lot of human contact, and knows where shelter and food can be found, and nice things happen there.

So I am of the opinion that this pony had had quite a lot of human contact, and would not have been scared at all, I could be wrong if course

 

[Queenbee]

*sigh* I hadn't realised this was a thread about sheep... *toddles off to look at thread title* Nope, still appears to be about dartmoor ponies.

DR I appreciate your sentiment that checking these ponies would be and inconvenience and too much effort, and actually I would agree with you but for the fact that we would then both be wrong.

Lets just agree to disagree on the importance of animal husbandry and welfare in this case.

 

[rhino]

*sigh* I hadn't realised this was a thread about sheep... *toddles off to look at thread title* Nope, still appears to be about dartmoor ponies.

Dartmoor Hill Ponies, my dear Not Dartmoor ponies at all.

 

[Queenbee]

Dartmoor Hill Ponies, my dear Not Dartmoor ponies at all.

Nope, you're right, just my lazy typo... I do know the difference

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

What a sad but amazing story, horses are such amazing creatures, rip little mare

 

[ester]

Given that these animals are herded down and some then kept on farms for the winter where they are presumably fed? It is certainly easy to think along the lines that this mare knew where home was to take her foal back there, she therefore had presumably spent sufficient time there in the past to know it as 'home' and I struggle to see that as the actions of a 'wild' pony.

The bag of feed suggestion came from me.. obviously ponies aren't as bright as sheep (sorry QB ) I also don't see the relevance of red deer either I'm afraid.. they have certainly had less negative breeding selection from humans than the dartmoor hill pony and therefore should be better evolved for their environmental niche.

I do hope some are selling well at market if they are pretty colours... we only seem to hear when they are not..

I think the crux of my problem is that we are keeping them on the moor at all for our own convenience/ecological requirements and given that this is the case why should all ponies not be accorded the same basic welfare standards (philosophically speaking ) it gets a bit close to suggesting that semi-feral ponies don't matter so much.

Am also wondering exactly what happens elsewhere.. are foresters never checked? although presumed much much easier with the terrain.. presumably they are dealt with if an accident occurs?

As I said before perhaps everything had been done to keep and eye on this mare, its hard to tell because we only have the daily fail

 

[Queenbee]

Given that these animals are herded down and some then kept on farms for the winter where they are presumably fed? It is certainly easy to think along the lines that this mare knew where home was to take her foal back there, she therefore had presumably spent sufficient time there in the past to know it as 'home' and I struggle to see that as the actions of a 'wild' pony.

The bag of feed suggestion came from me.. obviously ponies aren't as bright as sheep (sorry QB ) I also don't see the relevance of red deer either I'm afraid.. they have certainly had less negative breeding selection from humans than the dartmoor hill pony and therefore should be better evolved for their environmental niche.

I do hope some are selling well at market if they are pretty colours... we only seem to hear when they are not..

I think the crux of my problem is that we are keeping them on the moor at all for our own convenience/ecological requirements and given that this is the case why should all ponies not be accorded the same basic welfare standards (philosophically speaking ) it gets a bit close to suggesting that semi-feral ponies don't matter so much.

Am also wondering exactly what happens elsewhere.. are foresters never checked? although presumed much much easier with the terrain.. presumably they are dealt with if an accident occurs?

As I said before perhaps everything had been done to keep and eye on this mare, its hard to tell because we only have the daily fail

A really good post Ester, although why your apologising to me, I don't know... I never bought sheep or red deer into it for obvious reasons *whispers: they aren't ponies*

 

[Goldenstar]

Well it's definatly true that allthe facts in this case are not clear.
Perhaps she got separated from the herd and headed in the direction of a place where she knew they collected , I would love to think she came down from the hill to protect her foal and leave it with people .

 

[rhino]

I do hope some are selling well at market if they are pretty colours... we only seem to hear when they are not..

Some are selling. I wouldn't say 'well' though. You don't often see them advertised in the open market, although there is a broken and ridden on 2 year old on horsequest ATM However, the reserve pony for the GB Pony European event team last year was out of a DHP mare

I'm not sure the Longleat lions are too fussed what 'colour' their dinner is however

 

[tallyho!]

Lets also not forget why these ponies are on Dartmoor. To keep it pretty and attract tourists so they stay in my cottage in the summer

 

[mulledwhine]

Still interested why a pony who is scared of humans would choose to take her baby to one???? Makes no sense unless she was not feral ?

 

[tallyho!]

Still interested why a pony who is scared of humans would choose to take her baby to one???? Makes no sense unless she was not feral ?

Well, if she has been used to going to the farm for vetting, drifts, winter hay etc then she probably knows that the farm is "basecamp" and not somewhere to be feared. She knows her herdmates won't take on her baby, so she is just following her instincts and it has evidently told her the best chance baby would have is back where there is food and water and humans.

Who knows. Clever pony nonetheless.

The ponies are left to roam most of the time but have "events" throughout the year back where her "commoner" lives. If winters are truly bleak, many herds make their way back to farms where they will be fed.

So, no, I guess these ponies are not feral. They just get really awesome turnout!

 

[Dry Rot]

Still interested why a pony who is scared of humans would choose to take her baby to one???? Makes no sense unless she was not feral ?

It makes complete sense if one understands animal behaviour. Lots of wild/feral/and semi feral animals and birds are quite happy to take a hand out from man when conditions are bad -- and often when they are not! What is scared with a full belly may be very bold with an empty one. And I think she had a foal, not a baby!

 

[tallyho!]

It makes complete sense if one understands animal behaviour. Lots of wild/feral/and semi feral animals and birds are quite happy to take a hand out from man when conditions are bad -- and often when they are not! What is scared with a full belly may be very bold with an empty one. And I think she had a foal, not a baby!

My bad

 

[mulledwhine]

And there lies the argument!!!

She was brave enough to find help, but shied away from help???

Contradiction ?