Equine flu outbreak - anyone else thinking about curtailing plans?

[Ambers Echo]

Many of the vaccinated horses who have tested positive have been symptom free. That is, to me, a great positive that is not worth minimising.

This exactly. Had an interesting chat with my vet yesterday when mine were having their boosters. He picked up one of the first cases at the beginning of the year in an unvaccinated horse and said the swab sent to the AHT was absolutely laden with flu virus and that the affected horse was a) very sick and b) spewing out shedloads of virus all over the place. That case went on his FB page which is why I have been more flu-aware for a while now. On the other hand he said that even though some infection can break through the vaccination those horses are only shedding a tiny fraction of virus in comparison with the unvaccinated horses. His overall take is that flu is on the up but remains rare and that vaccination is by far the best way to protect your own and other horses.

Food for thought: unvaccinated horses are - scientifically speaking - at far greater risk themselves and also present a far greater risk to others than vaccinated horses who are still out and about. That was true before this outbreak, remains true now and will still be true when the outbreak is over. So if people are going to worry about flu, they should logically focus their concern on the low vaccination rates and not on covered horses out and about. And it would make more sense for YO's to refuse to have unvaccinated liveries than to stop the vaccinated and non exposed horses from going out. I don't care what other people do - people can make up their own minds. But when anti or non vaxxers start criticising all movements on safety grounds then I want to bang my head against a wall.

Oh and just as a random aside - the only reason vets are able to cope with the current upsurge in demand is because they had been stockpiling vaccine for Brexit! Who said nothing good could come of Brexit.....

 

[Quadro]

The Scottish case hasn't been listed yet on the AHT website. Do the AHT cover Scottish cases, does anyone know?

It seems very unfortunate for the new owner and the yard to which it just been moved. Initial flu jab done, strangles test done, then it still gets sick.

I believe that a horse isn't clear to compete until 7 days after the 2nd jab of the initial course.

Not sure, but i assume from her statement that it has been properly confirmed?

 

[Puddleduck]

There’s a post on FB page for the Dick vets that says it’s confirmed

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2748956481796264&id=307883992570204

 

[AnShanDan]

Case in Central Scotland is 100% confirmed. The vets there are my vets and on their advice last night we are cancelling PC rallies until further notice too. So annoying as we were about to re-start after our winter break, but better to try to nip anything going round in the bud rather than have it drag on for weeks potentially.

 

[bonny]

Case in Central Scotland is 100% confirmed. The vets there are my vets and on their advice last night we are cancelling PC rallies until further notice too. So annoying as we were about to re-start after our winter break, but better to try to nip anything going round in the bud rather than have it drag on for weeks potentially.

If the horse that has tested positive has come from Ireland and bearing in mind there is no restriction on movement of horses and isn’t about to be, how is anything going to “be nipped in the bud” ? With the attitude people seem to want of not doing anything with there horses whilst random cases are being reported surely this situation could potentially carry on forever ?

 

[blood_magik]

I saw stanmores post - that what was got me wondering about wether or not we should be cancelling things.

Waiting on my vet calling me back

 

[Tiddlypom]

So if people are going to worry about flu, they should logically focus their concern on the low vaccination rates and not on covered horses out and about.

As more information emerges, then folk can probably relax a bit if their horses are indeed correctly vaccinated with a recent booster, as all mine are. I stand 100% behind my stand that, in the early days, post the McCain yard + ve result in the vaccinated horses, it was unwise to carry on competing, hunting etc as normal. Just a week's hold would have been minimal inconvenience.

ETA And, of course, there is no requirement for hunters to be vaccinated.

 

[AnShanDan]

The horse that has tested positive has come from Ireland, it came through a dealers yard then to Giorgia's last week. Other horses will have left that yard too, gone goodness knows where. We have members who will be on yards all over west central belt. We hold rallies at a big livery yard with horses coming and going all the time. So, on veterinary advice, we have cancelled our PC rallies for short term. Common sense.

According to AHT reported cases of flu were at a very low level up to Sept. 2018, now they are not, so clearly there is an issue somewhere.

 

[catkin]

As more information emerges, then folk can probably relax a bit if their horses are indeed correctly vaccinated with a recent booster, as all mine are. I stand 100% behind my stand that, in the early days, post the McCain yard + ve result in the vaccinated horses, it was unwise to carry on competing, hunting etc as normal. Just a week's hold would have been minimal inconvenience.

ETA And, of course, there is no requirement for hunters to be vaccinated.

Absolutely this.
Also, there is a time-lag whilst the new boosters are getting up to strength in the horse - that's why there is a 7 day time delay rule before competing. Those starting a course are not protected until quite a few weeks in either.

Someone put up a link on here to a very informative webpage from Lingfield Equine Vets on vaccination and how it works - well worth a read, and study of the charts.

Mine had boosters yesterday but they are not ready to go out and about yet (and on vets advice there will still be places that we are best avoiding as one of ours is a vulnerable oldie)

We also have to accept that advice for right now could be subject to change as more information comes to light.

 

[oldie48]

https://www.pcuk.org/uploads/vaccs_rule_18.pdf


What I really don't understand is why the PC does not make vaccinations mandatory for all members ponies regardless of whether they are competing at area level. Can anyone explain this, please?

 

[AnShanDan]

https://www.pcuk.org/uploads/vaccs_rule_18.pdf


What I really don't understand is why the PC does not make vaccinations mandatory for all members ponies regardless of whether they are competing at area level. Can anyone explain this, please?

The Pony Club is a law unto itself , think you'd need to direct this question to Stoneleigh

Guess you could ask the same of riding clubs, do they all require full vac. history?

We have told all our members to make sure their vacs. are up to date for when we resume rallies, but it's a tricky one insisting without any actual rules. We use a big livery yard for rallies, we have no idea if the horses and ponies there are vaccinated or not.

When you go to BS no one checks your passport let alone vaccinations. At BE events there are very occasional random checks, but mostly not.

 

[Quadro]

It is really hard to know what to do for the best. Was meaning to take a horse to a schooling night tonight but now am unsure. She had her yearly vacc in Jan so well covered. Maybe worrying too much, but am near dealers who are very very friendly with the dealers the infected horse came from!

 

[Tiddlypom]

The AHT has updated its flu listings since first thing this morning. Dated 12/12 (yesterday) there were 3 new cases, in Central Scotland (as discussed upthread), Kent and Derbyshire. All these new cases seem to have Irish connections.

 

[Ambers Echo]

ETA And, of course, there is no requirement for hunters to be vaccinated.

That's bonkers! I've never hunted but I assumed that hunting would require vaccination? What about pleasure rides? Maybe the solution is to tighten up vaccination policy?

In my table of risk from low to high risk, I reckon it is:

Vaccinated horses no movement
Vaccinated horses moving and mixing with other vaccinated horses (ie competitions and clinics)
Unvaccinated horses no movement (it's airborne so they are still vulnerable.)
Unvaccinated horses hacking alone
Unvaccinated mixing with other unvaccinated horses.
Unvaccinated mixing with other unvaccinated horses while completely knackered & immuno-supressed. ie HUNTING!!!

And worst of all: Unvaccinated mixing with other unvaccinated horses while completely knackered in an outbreak area.

If that is what is happening near you I am not surprised you are furious.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Thanks, AE, yes, that is what is happening near here. The most local pack to McCains yard did not appear to go out yesterday, but two neighbouring packs did, each about 13 miles from McCains.

Additonally, it is not as simple as the landowner or tenant farmer witholding permission for the hunt to cross their land if they want to protect their unvaccinated or sick equines. Round here, the big sporting estates including Cholmondeley, of whom D.McCain is a tenant, still require tenants to allow the hunt to cross their land as part of the tenancy agreement.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Now confirmed in Kent and also Sussex Mayes and Scrine posted earlier to confirm that it's in their catchment area in Sussex and warning of events might need cancelling. Seemingly it's on the march.

 

[Puddleduck]

Markfield EC in Leicestershire have posted on their FB page confirming they have a case. Yard is now on lockdown

 

[meleeka]

Now confirmed in Kent and also Sussex Mayes and Scrine posted earlier to confirm that it's in their catchment area in Sussex and warning of events might need cancelling. Seemingly it's on the march.

I read that all cases were from recently imported horses or horses closely linked to recently imported, so it still seems to be fairly contained.

 

[DressageCob]

Thanks, AE, yes, that is what is happening near here. The most local pack to McCains yard did not appear to go out yesterday, but two neighbouring packs did, each about 13 miles from McCains.

Additonally, it is not as simple as the landowner or tenant farmer witholding permission for the hunt to cross their land if they want to protect their unvaccinated or sick equines. Round here, the big sporting estates including Cholmondeley, of whom D.McCain is a tenant, still require tenants to allow the hunt to cross their land as part of the tenancy agreement.

There is that...and also the fact that a certain local hunt don't care whether they have permission or not and just cross whichever land they fancy.

It's not just the hunts though. Even the local venues which attract racehorses aren't closing or even asking for proof of vaccination. That's a surprise to me.

 

[Tiddlypom]

There is that...and also the fact that a certain local hunt don't care whether they have permission or not and just cross whichever land they fancy.

That too, regardless of whether there are horses and ponies (or other animals) turned out on that land...

 

[MagicMelon]

I went to a local unaffiliated SJ event today, they said all horses were to remain in boxes until passports had been checked by the entry secretary, I believe one person didnt take their passport so they were told to leave. There's always flu around, my horse ia vaccinated (just had usual annual booster a few days ago) and I would always keep her away from other horses anyway so I felt it was very low risk, no more so than at any other time.

I wont be hacking past/near other horses at the moment though, just in case they weren't vaccinated (none near me anyway).

 

[Bernster]

Feeling conflicted - lots of events still on and people are out as normal, but also lots getting cancelled. Yard in Norfolk has a case and they had a dresssage comp there recently

I’m on self imposed lock down as sorting out his update flu vaccine and lorry now getting tested, so we won’t be out for a few weeks. I’m glad really as I feel like a few weeks to let this settle down does make sense.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have had all of mine given an extra booster .
From Monday I am carrying on as normal .

 

[Britestar]

"Oh and just as a random aside - the only reason vets are able to cope with the current upsurge in demand is because they had been stockpiling vaccine for Brexit! Who said nothing good could come of Brexit...."

I hope they continue to stockpile, as next feb there are going to be 1000's of horses needing their boosters at the same time!!

 

[Ambers Echo]

"Oh and just as a random aside - the only reason vets are able to cope with the current upsurge in demand is because they had been stockpiling vaccine for Brexit! Who said nothing good could come of Brexit...."

I hope they continue to stockpile, as next feb there are going to be 1000's of horses needing their boosters at the same time!!

If the rules stay as they are (ie 6 months being required in many places) they will all need re-doing again in August! He said he really does not think vets will have enough vaccine available for August.