Faecal water syndrome ? or something else?

[MereChristmas]

I am writing this for my own reference but any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have read this thread first.

Winter faecal water syndrome

My friend and I each have an elderly cob gelding, and both cobs suffer from faecal water syndrome in the winter. Washing bottoms, tails and feathers in the depths of winter is not pleasant for man nor beast. They are kept at DIY livery with daily turn out. the herd lives well together, and we...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

Some of you may know Finan was treated successfully for ulcers this time last year.
He has always been a little messy behind but was better but not totally dry during and after treatment of injections, Sucralfate and later NAF Gastriaid.
This winter he has become more mucky.
He was fed Fast Fibre, Spillers lite and Lean balancer and a dryish haylage.
He is out either day or night winter or summer on a small area surrounded by other horses as he is a very good do-er.

We have made attempts to improve his problem by

1). Replacing the lite and lean with Spillers Ulca balancer..Made it worse

2). Removing the balancer and using Protexin Acid Ease.. He’s had this for a over month with double dose to start with. There have been occasional improved days but not many.

I think the next trial will be hay instead of haylage but am not sure what gut support if any to use with it or not. I know to do one change at a time.

I have looked at Trinity Consultants( frightened by the price!), Equibiome prebiotic and Protexin Gut sponge.

Notes…I cannot feed chaff. He has too many gaps!
He is on a straw bed and has never been seen to eat any.

Thanks if you managed to follow that and if you can help

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’m a few days into trying Gut Sponge, and so far I’m seeing a far cleaner little bum.
I can’t feed chaff. A soaked fibre seems better, but not great but it’s fab for mixing potions into.

 

[Tiddlypom]

An unexpected additional bonus of feeding oily herbs to my three is that my FWS prone mare has been much, much better.

 

[poiuytrewq]

An unexpected additional bonus of feeding oily herbs to my three is that my FWS prone mare has been much, much better.

Ohhh what’s oily herbs? Actual fresh herbs or how do you buy/feed?

 

[meleeka]

I can’t feed haylage, it has to be meadow hay and not course. I also feed Acid Ease at the loading dose and D&H Hedgerow Herbs. My mare has been pretty perfect for a couple of months now.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I was told soft fine hay, not sure if that is a thing, not tried it yet but my hay is quite coarse.
I need to find some softer stuff

 

[McFluff]

I’ve had issues with my boy. Particularly if stressed or in spring or autumn (grass change time).
I’ve had him on maxgut for a while and it helped but didn’t completely solve.
On a whim, and inspired by the oily herb thread, he’s now getting a blend of rosemary, thyme and oregano (equal parts dried), and has normal poo now (within a few days). Even when very excited (going to a show), or when hay changes, or with new grass coming through. Cautiously optimistic that it keeps working.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Ohhh what’s oily herbs? Actual fresh herbs or how do you buy/feed?

Mixed dried oregano, rosemary, thyme . Buy in bulk.

Lots more about it on this thread and some others.

Oily herbs daily amount

After reading a few threads on here, I started feeding my horses oily herbs (oregano, rosemary and thyme). Originally, I made a mix of this mixed with other herbs, but have reverted to just the oily herbs and am trying to work out a daily amount. I understand Equibiome recommend 25 - 60g per...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[poiuytrewq]

Mixed dried oregano, rosemary, thyme . Buy in bulk.

Lots more about it on this thread and some others.

Oily herbs daily amount

After reading a few threads on here, I started feeding my horses oily herbs (oregano, rosemary and thyme). Originally, I made a mix of this mixed with other herbs, but have reverted to just the oily herbs and am trying to work out a daily amount. I understand Equibiome recommend 25 - 60g per...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

Thank you! Tomorrows reading.

 

[BBP]

I’m having problems with mine for the first time this year, and it started when we started feeding wrapped hay (they seem to have decided they don’t like any hay from our local hay supplier). I started the oily herbs 2 days ago. No difference so far but keeping fingers crossed.

 

[MereChristmas]

Thanks every one

 

[MereChristmas]

I will list your suggestions and investigate them all tomorrow

 

[MereChristmas]

Keep the suggestions and updates coming please.
We know horses don’t read the rule books so every different experience will help.
Thank you

 

[Snow Falcon]

A vet recommended just straight brewers yeast to me for one of mine with suspected digestive issues. It's in most gut supplements anyway. A friend has had success with slippery elm.

 

[MereChristmas]

An unexpected additional bonus of feeding oily herbs to my three is that my FWS prone mare has been much, much better.

Did you feed the herbs for gut problems or something else?
Did you feed any other supplements etc at the same time?
How long was it before you saw the improvement?
Thanks

 

[Tiddlypom]

Did you feed the herbs for gut problems or something else?
Did you feed any other supplements etc at the same time?
How long was it before you saw the improvement?
Thanks

Initially it was just the one horse, my homebred, on the oily herbs. She has hind gut issues, and she had become so uncomfortable and grumpy that pts was on the cards. She had scanned clear for foregut ulcers. The regular vets had no more suggestions. Chiro vet suggested running the Equibiome test on her, and the results showed that her hind gut biome was way out of kilter - far too many of some bacteria, far too few of others. There are some threads on Equibiome on here.

Oily herbs are just a natural and cheap way of encouraging a healthy diverse range of hind gut bugs in the horse. In the wild, horses browse and eat many more plants than just grass.

Seeing M respond so well to the oily herbs, I put the other two mares on them, too. The 17yo IDx, who has PPID and PSSM, is the one who is prone to FWS, and while she still gets the odd niggle, it's much, much better than it was before.

My hind gut mare lives out with the others and they are currently all being hayed in the field. Feed is:-

Half mugful soaked dengie grass pellets
Half mugful charnwoods linseed
Pro Earth Pro Balance+
50 ml mixed oily herbs (oregano, thyme, rosemary)
Riaflex boswellia
salt
25ml more dried mixed hedgerow herbs (hawthorn, dandelions, marigold, cleavers, rosehips etc).

The two PPID mares have the same plus Forageplus pea and potato protein, and the PSSM/FWS mare has extra vit E (for the PSSM).

I buy my herbs in bulk on line.

Good luck.

 

[MereChristmas]

Thanks @Tiddlypom. Lots of information to help.

So that I’m sure I understood correctly
was the homebred mare with hind gut issues, who you had tested by Equibiome, given any supplements, Equibiome or others, or only the oily herbs?

I don’t know about Finan’s hind gut. He had squamous ulcers round the lesser curvature of the stomach, grade 2.

 

[anguscat]

My horse has this (if you’re talking about FWS as being usually normal poo but with weird extra water and lots of water/mucous squirting largely devoid of poo). I tried fiddling around with feed and additives supposed to help digestion/ gut issues for many years. Clear of ulcers. Eventually got biopsies taken from hind gut (as far as could reach anyway). Gut lining was badly inflamed. Alongside a very simple diet which we religiously avoid fiddling with apart from varying amounts (he’s on Pure Veteran, meadow hay and grass…and hardly ever without access to forage) we got on top of the issue with steroids (tablet form). Once the steroids had obviously calmed the inflammation we had to very gradually decrease them. Sometimes he’d have a relapse and FWS would start again. We’d immediately up the steroids, let the inflammation resolve and then start slowly dropping down the steroids again. Took about a year to get the issue to settle and him to be fully off steroids. He’s been largely clear of it for nearly two years now. Except he has had a recent relapse. Caused we think by a slight change to his management - because of snow/storms he was kept in his stable a bit more. We’re back on top of it now: poos normal, off steroids. He’ll still get normal loose poo days like all horses when excited or grass a bit rich but thats quite different to FWS.
My horse is 15, TBxWelsh, 16h, weight spot on. That’s what worked for us.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Good luck, I hope you find something that works for your horse. What works for one, doesn't always work for another. I am still awaiting the results of an Equibiome gut analysis, and followed their advice to introduce variety into the diet, in a form that could be easily digested. Old Dobbin is losing his grinding ability, so sliced vegetables and short chopped forage (all soaked/damped) were introduced. That was back in December, and he is still dry. In his case, I think whatever he was eating was not reaching the foregut in a condition that enabled it to be digested fully by the hindgut.
I have introduced Graze On, Fast Forage and Veteran haylage in addition to his normal ration of netted haylage. This year he has held his condition and is happy.
Looking back, he has always had a tendency towards FWS. He is a greedy feeder, practically inhales anything offered, and would stuff himself with grass given the opportunity. I began to notice a difference after EMS diagnosis around ten years ago, and he started to be muzzled for turn out. FWS was then only evident in winter. It never crossed my mind that food needs to be well chewed before being swallowed, but in his case it has worked a treat.

 

[MereChristmas]

Thank you @anguscat
I think my pony is not as bad as yours. He doesn’t squirt but has dried poo-ey black water round his bum and occasionally down his legs.
I will remember your treatment.

 

[MereChristmas]

Thank @Highmileagecob
I have read the Equibiome information. It’s interesting and informative

 

[MereChristmas]

Thank you for all the replies.
I am beginning to have some ideas about what to do next.
I am going to work out possible options and may list them here.
If you can see any that in your experience would be a better way or which option to choose or even which order to try the options I would be very grateful.

 

[spotty_pony]

I would try the NAF haylage balancer supplement - I’ve seen it work well in other horses with similar symptoms. Other than that, I’d change onto hay - haylage just doesn’t seem to agree with some, whatever you try.

 

[SantaVera]

I'd change into hay,do it slowly mixing 10percent with the haylage and increasing it to 100 per cent over a period of a month to six weeks. I would not add any supplements herbs or anything else during this time and give it another month after the horse is on 100 per cent hay to monitor what is going on in his gut. If there is still rws then I would try a b vitamin supplement in the first instance.

 

[MereChristmas]

Thank you
I hope I can find the diet that works for him.

 

[meleeka]

If you can see any that in your experience would be a better way or which option to choose or even which order to try the options I would be very grateful.

I’d change the forage next and feed the herbs. You won’t know which it is if he improves, but you can always then remove one of them and see, or just carry on the same if it works. I’ve found a combination works (forage and supplements) rather than just one thing.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Thanks @Tiddlypom. Lots of information to help.

So that I’m sure I understood correctly
was the homebred mare with hind gut issues, who you had tested by Equibiome, given any supplements, Equibiome or others, or only the oily herbs?

Post Molly's Equibiome results in May 2021, I followed the recommended Equibiome treatment protocol with their numbered supplements in the suggested order, which took about 5 or 6 months. These are relatively cheap supplements designed to help the horse improve its own hind gut biome for itself. It is recommended to feed oily herbs alongside the supplements, and I did.

For a while now, she has not been on any of their supplements but I will be keeping up the oily herbs and extra hedgerow herbs permanently. Previously, she had been (at vet's suggestion) on Succeed supplement, which is very expensive (£3/day?) and only manages symptoms without treating the condition. In any case, it was no longer working for her. Equishure is another very expensive hind gut supplement which treats symptoms only and the symptoms return unabated as soon as it is stopped.

It is a vet who recommended the Equibiome test to me, as she had seen good results in client's horses. Molly is now her poster girl of horses whose life has been turned around by it .

After seeing how well Molly did, I put my other 2 mares on oily herbs + hedgerow herbs too. This is when I noticed that my FWS mare improved. It's not wacky science, it is helping the horse to heal itself.

 

[MereChristmas]

Thanks @meleeka
I am getting far more replies than I expected.
I think I might wait a few more days to weigh up all the suggestions

 

[MereChristmas]

Post Molly's Equibiome results in May 2021, I followed the recommended Equibiome treatment protocol with their numbered supplements in the suggested order, which took about 5 or 6 months. These are relatively cheap supplements designed to help the horse improve its own hind gut biome for itself. It is recommended to feed oily herbs alongside the supplements, and I did.

For a while now, she has not been on any of their supplements but I will be keeping up the oily herbs and extra hedgerow herbs permanently. Previously, she had been (at vet's suggestion) on Succeed supplement, which is very expensive (£3/day?) and only manages symptoms without treating the condition. In any case, it was no lo ger working for her. Equishure is another very expensive hind gut supplement which treats symptoms only.

It is a vet who recommended the Equibiome test to me, as she had seen good results in client's horses. Molly is now her poster girl of horses whose life has been turned around by it .

After seeing how well Molly did, I put my other 2 mares on oily + hedgerow herbs too. This is when I noticed that my FWS mare improved. It's not wacky science, it is helping the horse to heal itself.

View attachment 108393

Thanks for such a detailed response. More to consider.

 

[anguscat]

I think in humans glutamine is supposed to help heal the gut. Might be worth a Google.
I have much sympathy for my horse as I suffer with gut ‘issues’ autoimmune and structural. I deal with it by avoidance of trigger foods (but takes a lot of time to work them out and as I get older I suspect new triggers are creeping in), varied but simple foods, as much homegrown as I can manage but that’s easier in the summer.