Fatality at Badminton - Officials Useless

jemima_too said:
Sadly this is not the first time I've heard of serious inadequacies from fence judges at prestige events who do not know the correct procedures and cause problems.

My sympathies go to all involved, including the officials because it is pretty awful having to deal with something of this magnitude, especially if you don't know what you're doing.
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totally agree. i was at Burghley for the debacle when the crowd stopped Lucinda Fredericks on Brit, with previous rider still on the floor (right in front of me.) the fence judges were useless, she was only winded but of the 3 of them none helped her up, and they wouldn't let me duck under the rope to help her (she's a friend of mine).

I saw a similar thing happen at Burgie last year, previous rider still on floor and next rider galloping down the hill and stopped by crowd. The fence judges didn't seem to get his time for the stoppage and he was v miffed to get lots of time penalties (undeserved imho.)

There are set procedures for what to do in the event of a fall (and yes, I fence judge). First, and this is emphasised strongly at every briefing, you MUST immediately radio to tell XC Control that there is a fall of rider and/or horse at your fence, and whether the course is clear or not. IF this is followed, then other riders will NOT arrive at your fence, there's a 1.5 min or 2 min gap between them at a 1-day and 4 mins at a 4 star for goodness' sake.

I agree that someone should go to the rider immediately but someone should also go to the horse, there's no excuse for not reacting fast, that's what they're there for. they should be tried and tested fence judges who have been proven to do the right thing immediately under pressure, some people freeze and some don't, simple as that, you need the latter type. BE needs a shake-up if they are using the wrong people to fence judge at their premier events...

huge sympathies to poor Louisa and connections. Tragic.
 
yorksG said:
Well to be fair, there is always an element of who you know, after all how else are you going to persuade oeople to sit in the rain and be sworn at? It is only pressure from organisers on friends that allows any event to carry on. Working all day for a bacon buttie and a cup of coffee is somewhat less below what most of would expect for a days hard work :D
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But this results in the prestigious events having fence judges who are not necessarily the most experienced. It would work better IMHO if fence judges started at smaller competitions, initially being placed with an experienced fence judge, and then were invited to judge at larger competitions when they had experience.
 
Yes there was an element of people known to the organisers getting the more interesting fences but to be fair they were also the people who turned out nearly every week to help out. As we did more events and they got to know us we were put on more technical fences.
 
I was also watching at this fence when this horrific accident happened sarah. I was appalled at how it took 2 officials to tend to the rider who was walking around and appeared fine, and no one held the horse. If the rider was down I would say of course, tend the rider first, but the rider was walking and talking so i would have gone to get the horse and held it still.

If they had done that, the horse was still hidden behind the brush and all the kids and most of the crowd couldnt see what had happened. It was when the horse tried to canter away with its hoof dangling by a thread that everyone could see what had happened and then everyone started getting hysterical and screaming which wouldn't have helped the stricken horse at all.

I know they are volunteers and I commend them for doing that job, but they should have acted faster after realising the rider was OK.
 
Agree with someone else who posted about being a volunteer.

Im a VOLUNTEER jump judge for British Eventing, and yes I offer to give up my time so you could just tell me to stop moaning for anyone having a dig about volunteers. But for those of you that do event (and im not implying its everybody as it certainly isn't), if it wasn't for volunteers, British Eventing wouldn't be and you couldn't do what you do.

I've had riders come off at fences i've been on. It was just a log, but the rider came off and broke her leg - the horse had a few cuts and bruises. I judge with my Mum (who knows nothing about horses which does not mean she can't judge a fence) and we have an arrangement that if someone comes off, she takes the radio and goes to the rider and i go after the horse. We didn't have this arrangement for our first ever faller years ago and we both insticintively went to the rider, so if it looks a bad fall and you don't have the deal Mum & I do, you would automatically go to the rider, not the horse.

And believe me, there is an inquest after accidents at fences. When all the riders have boxed up and gone home, the volunteers are still there for a de-brief. Our log faller - we had the steward there before she'd barely hit the floor, the vet wanting to know how the horse fell so he could look at it properly, we were quizzed about what we considered caused the fall (rider fault / inexperience, horse fault / inexperience, fence - jumping into shadow etc), we have paperwork to fill in and we have to explain it again at the end of the day.

The volunteer fence judges in the Badminton case may just have been in SHOCK themselves at what they'd seen and not necessarily noticed how bad the horse was.

I'm pretty sure they didn't do it on purpose to p*ss people off and upset them. So please folks, cut the volunteers some slack.
 
Shouldnt the fence judges and officals be briefed prior the the event in the case of a situation like this. I am sure that a combination fence such as Huntsmans Close there would have been several officials. The horse was obviously seriously injured, the rider was up and talking, surely the horse took priority at that point. To focus soley on the rider when the overall situation should have been accessed immediately. There was not just one pair of eyes there after all. I know its easy to say in hindsight, but common sense has to be the best sense in any dreadful accident.
 
pastie2 said:
Shouldnt the fence judges and officals be briefed prior the the event in the case of a situation like this. I am sure that a combination fence such as Huntsmans Close there would have been several officials. The horse was obviously seriously injured, the rider was up and talking, surely the horse took priority at that point. To focus soley on the rider when the overall situation should have been accessed immediately. There was not just one pair of eyes there after all. I know its easy to say in hindsight, but common sense has to be the best sense in any dreadful accident.
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Fence judges are ALWAYS briefed prior to an event....
 
I know they are briefed Gazehound, but are they briefed to handle a situation such as this one, where a horse has an accident of such magnitude, if so why wasnt it handled better?
 
Sarah6 said:
i rang up to complain and they said they would not allow them to be officials again but just so so cross!!!
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Which now means that several willing volunteers who were trying their best in an awful situation (and will have learnt many things through the whole awful procedure, making them far more experienced) will not be offering their services again.

It was indeed a tragic event but I am sure these people did what they thought was best at the time - hindsight means, I am sure, there are lots of lessons to be learnt from it. People can learn from mistakes, tragic or otherwise.
 
Agree that the volunteers should be given a little more credit. I have fence jumped albeit only at Novice and given up time to be a writer as well. You give up your entire day - which is of course so precious, you are not paid, and you do not move apart from loo breaks all day. You are briefed before hand - yes I think that BE could maybe structure this better and some of the ideas were good (training days, working your way upto the big events) but its really hard to say just how you would react in that situation and I am sure the FJ's will be feeling as awful about this as anyone else watching, let alone being critisised as well. My thoughts go to poor Louisa and her owners for losing a much loved horse.
 
pastie2 said:
I know they are briefed Gazehound, but are they briefed to handle a situation such as this one, where a horse has an accident of such magnitude, if so why wasnt it handled better?
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Sorry just caught up with this. A briefing obviously cannot cover every eventuality or you would be there for several days :), so personally I have never been briefed on 'what to do if you have a serious accident at your fence' other than the clear advice to be followed if you have ANY fall/incident at your fence 'get on the radio, inform XC control, everyone else on the fence judging net to maintain radio silence (and you would be amazed how many people dont :o), and confirm which expert support teams you need to attend' (e.g. vet, doctor, fence repair)

In this case obviously I have no idea why it wasnt handled better as I wasnt there
 
fumanchu said:
Too right.

Horses are easily replaced............
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Louise was up and talking, yes the rider should be seen to first if he/she is hurt, Louise was up and talking, there is a balance and I can assure you that a horse of that callaber is not that easily replaced. I am sure that all connections will be devastated about the loss of that mare. There were enough people there to look after rider and horse.
 
There would also be a crisis management plan in place, which would involve the xc control, sector stewards, vets and medics in that sector of the course where the accident happened, as well as the Press, it isnt just down to the fence judge to deal with the situation - I suspect that you never know how this system will work until it is tested.

I am not sure how they recruite there fence judges at Badminton, but I know that other big events, such as Blenheim, like to take people who have helped out fence judging at other smaller events, so tha they not only have experience, but also help smaller events by getting more people to turn out to them- which I think is the way to go about things.

Condolences to Louisa Lockwood and all of Desert Islands' connections.
 
pastie2 said:
Louise was up and talking, yes the rider should be seen to first if he/she is hurt, Louise was up and talking, there is a balance and I can assure you that a horse of that callaber is not that easily replaced. I am sure that all connections will be devastated about the loss of that mare. There were enough people there to look after rider and horse.
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I think what Fumanchu meant was that you cannot replace a human life but however special, talented and loved a horse may be, at the end of the day it is an animal that CAN be replaced. You cannot go and get another wife/daughter etc. I judge at BE events every year. Fortunately although I have had falls I have never endured a fatality/serious injury at my fence and I hope I never will. I would like to think that should the worse happen I will do the right thing but until that happens who knows? The human MUST come first and decisions are made in a split second. Yes we get briefed but nothing can prepare you for the worst if it happens. I am sure we have all made decisions that, in hindsight , we should not have made with regards to our horses eg. going hunting/jumping/riding when we had a doubt that maybe they were not 100%. We are all human, we make mistakes, things go wrong.......it is not good but it is life and sh!t happens. Am sure the FJ concerned regret their actions but they acted in good faith.
 
At Bramham a couple of years ago one of the U25's fell at the double of corners and ended up on the ground with foot caught in stirrup. At least 15 seconds went by while the fat so and so of a fence judge sat comfortably in his deckchair and did nothing. Horse looking more and more spooked, and more likely to bolt off down the track dragging the rider. Fortunately the fence fixing team were at that fence, and ran to catch horse along with a spectator.

I agree that sometimes in an emergency people freeze, but at a 4* I would have thought that the briefing would be very comprehensive.

I know at Necarne for example that the fence judges briefing actually takes place the weekend before the event so that all matters can be discussed and no-one runs out of time (to ask questions etc).

Fiona
 
Ditchjumper2 I completley understand what Fumanchu meant, but as I stated in my post the human was OK. They could see that, its all about looking at the whole picture in a crisis, not ust focusing on what is in front of you.
 
To all those who are so sure they would do better and feel it is appropriate to name call FJ's (Fiona esp.) please can I suggest that you volunteer to do this task, as you will all obviously be so much better at it than the poor fat s*ds who do it now :(
 
i have not read all posts regarding this sad situation but we were at the jump very soon after and as desert island was put to sleep - please please the situation was sad enough with out pointing fingers. Hind sight is a great thing but when you have to react in a split second that is hard. I saw nothing but compassion for Louise and Desert Island was destroyed quickly. Yes no doubt the powers that be will look at how it was handled but let our thoughts be with louise, her grooms and the owners. To see Louise so distraught left me numb with tears on my face. To build a bond a relationship a trust with your horse and then have it pulled away - my heart is with Louise xxxx
 
yorksG said:
To all those who are so sure they would do better and feel it is appropriate to name call FJ's (Fiona esp.) please can I suggest that you volunteer to do this task, as you will all obviously be so much better at it than the poor fat s*ds who do it now :(
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Hear hear. How many of you who are criticising have actually FJ at a BE event? If it wasn't for volunteers like us there would be no FJ or it would all be more expensive. We sit there all day with a packed lunch, score sheets, stop watch, whistle, flags and radio staring intently at our fence for 9 hours. Our reward....a thankyou and "see you next year". Yes we do it because we want to but we are human and mistakes do happen....whether it is forgetting to write down a stop time or something more drastic. We do our best.
 
Excuse me yorksG and ditchjumper - I volunteer regularly at aff level eventing including 3 days (also compete).

I recalled this particular incident to make the point that there are fence judges who are definitely not 'on the ball' at all and should not be doing the job, the well being of the rider involved were most definitely put in jeopardy by this official, thank goodness others were paying more attention and averted an incident.

I did not criticize the fence judge at Badminton because I wasn't there. I did criticize the fence judge at Bramham because I was there. He was too busy eating his picnic and sipping his pims to react appropriately.

Fiona
 
ok, firstly i am not agreeing with fiona but have had this situation from the other side. I fell off at the last fence xc once, the owner of the EC was sat on his quad next to the fence. As i came off my foot got caught in my stirrup (safety stirrups may i add, they went in the bin!!!!!)
My mum was waiting on the other side of the rope with my other horse in her hand so she was helpless. my horse, luckily stood still, but as you can imagine, she was not happy and as i lay quite helpless on the floor, terrified to move in case i spooked her and she bolted. My mum was shouting for help, 1 spectater was telling him to help. He sat there. He, may i add, has ridden at 3* level.
Eventually another spectator quietly came and took hold and helped me get my foot free. The fence judge....he was still sat on his quad!!!!
 
babymare said:
i have not read all posts regarding this sad situation but we were at the jump very soon after and as desert island was put to sleep - please please the situation was sad enough with out pointing fingers. Hind sight is a great thing but when you have to react in a split second that is hard. I saw nothing but compassion for Louise and Desert Island was destroyed quickly. Yes no doubt the powers that be will look at how it was handled but let our thoughts be with louise, her grooms and the owners. To see Louise so distraught left me numb with tears on my face. To build a bond a relationship a trust with your horse and then have it pulled away - my heart is with Louise xxxx
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Very well said. RIP Desert Island.
 
BexDavies said:
The next horse jumped the spread, and was approaching the white gates, from what I could see there was no official on the course to stop him. I believe the only reason he stopped is because the whole of the crowd was shouting at him to stop.

On a better note, once the horse had been caught she was dealt with quickly and in a very calm manner, and I was impressed by that.
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Correct.

Sadly we where there too.

RIP Dessert Ireland
 
I was at the fence too, it was the single worst thing I have seen in my entire life. We all know that it's a risk you take with the sport, but you'd like to think that at such a high profile event such as Badminton the stewards would be at least able to hold a horse. Of course the rider is the priority, she was up on her feet & walked away, there must have been five officials there, it would have only taken one of them to just go & take hold of the reins & stop the poor thing from suffering that agonising unnecessary pain.
 
I went on a Fence Judge's training course once, and it put me off completely. All that responsibility, flags, timers, radios, dealing with casulaties. After happily judging Pony Club for years. So I would be very surprised if the officials were inexperienced or unsure. At a three day event the fence judges should be very, very experienced and ready to deal with all eventualities.
 
On a different note, and sorry if it sounds grizzly, but what actually happened?

Thoughts to Louisa and of course all the connections, regardless of how well these things are dealt with, it is always going to be a horrendous situation to be part of :(
 
The thought of the horse suffering is horrific, and no rider would ever wish to see their horse hurt, the officals are doing their best and have a thankless tast - having fence judged myself at some pretty nasty fences - we are as worried for the horse and rider combination and always sigh of relief when the team get through ours and we usually get a sarni and a promise of being relieved off the fence at X time - and this seldom happens as many times folks just dont turn up !

BUT adrenaline will have kicked in and the horse possibly/probably would not have been feeling the pain - when the adrenaline would have run out the horse would have collapsed or gone into shock. Why do i say this - i have had the unfortunate experiance of breaking my ankle in 3 places, and a few years ago being crushed by a horse that fell on me - i did not walk for a year after this so it was a pretty horrific fall. In both circumstances i did not feel the full extent of the pain - in both cases i carried on functioning on "auto" even to the extent of driving to my oh's place of work before the adrenaline kicked out and i collapsed.I am not a vet or a doctor - i am simply stating that the body has a mechanism to cope with such an event - shuting down ie shock or pumping the body with adrenaline which will have negated the pain. So please please please have some consideration for everyone invlovled if we keep getting posts like this will we be facing a call for not only racing, point to point, grand national, but all eventing to be banned and all show jumping limited to a 4ft 6 max x 4ft 6- and whilst it is very very sad - the reason everyone was at badders watching is because if we were all good enough thats what we would be doing.
 
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