Fed up of selling my horse!

[Cowpony]

Actually, when I was looking for a horse I used to do exactly that, (ie just ask a general question about the horse) because a lot of people will babble on and tell you stuff they probably didn't intend to. So it's not necessarily a daft question from a buyer's perspective!

 

[be positive]

well i'd have thought having read the advert you may have some questions, so;

'Hi, I'm phoning about xxx, i see your advert says YYY, How are they with AAAA? I'm looking for something to do BBBBB . . . . . .'

If thats what people do thats fine, but when i'm face with 'tell me about your horse' it's like, where do you want me to start? i can babble on about her for hours but if it could turn out your looking for something to do dressage and i've been babbling on about how lovely she is to hunt! Alt east give me a starting point or i'll just read the advert back . . .

I get this and agree, if the ad is fairly extensive starting with "tell me about your horse" is frustrating and could mean you talk for 30 mins only to finally get to the sticking point that means the potential buyer is not interested.

I turn it round when selling and say "what are you looking for" or "what exactly would you like to know" that way if something is a priority we get to the point quickly, if the horse is not suitable I can usually decide after asking them a few questions and finish the conversation with something such as " he would be more suited to a low level home" if they sound ambitious beyond the horses ability or "he needs a more experienced rider" when mummy phones about the green 4 year old for her 6 year old child that is just learning to trot.

I rarely have anyone come who is not suited, they may not buy, I also rarely have long phone calls that end up without a viewing, the odd horse seems to attract the wrong people but it is usually because I have got the advert wrong, if the wording and photos are correctly balanced I find the right people are the ones that show interest.

 

[JustKickOn]

well i'd have thought having read the advert you may have some questions, so;

'Hi, I'm phoning about xxx, i see your advert says YYY, How are they with AAAA? I'm looking for something to do BBBBB . . . . . .'

If thats what people do thats fine, but when i'm face with 'tell me about your horse' it's like, where do you want me to start? i can babble on about her for hours but if it could turn out your looking for something to do dressage and i've been babbling on about how lovely she is to hunt! Alt east give me a starting point or i'll just read the advert back . . .

Or you could say to them "What would you like to know, were there any aspects of her advert that you would like me to expand on?"

From what I have read on this thread, I'm afraid the advert doesn't come across as being very honest.

I do think you need to mention the medical issues in the advert, they will be excluded from her insurance. That's something I would want to know prior to handing over money. It wouldn't necessarily stop me buying, but would be something I would have to factor into cost.

Get her out to a few different competitions, get some schooling videos on the flat and over fences and some genuine hacking videos.i think once back in consistent work, it will be easier to sell her.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I haven't read all the posts but I think £4k for a horse that has had previous health issues and naps and is suitable only for someone to have a bit of fun on is rather a high price to pay.

 

[LeannePip]

From what I have read on this thread, I'm afraid the advert doesn't come across as being very honest.

I really don't see how the advert is not honest? She does everything it says in the advert, i've disclosed the napping probably as more of an issue than it currently is. i don't think i need to recount her entire history; 'As a 5 year old she was a nappy little wotsit who used to hop up and down she did this showjumping, in indoor arenas and anywhere else you can think of but now she only does this occasionally hacking on her own' i've not seen many adverts where people disclose their horses medical history and i don't think thats just because they don't have a history, most horses will. Its not like you are reading the advert and handing over the money if the seller is disclosing it at the first point of contact with a potential buyer then that is ample i'd imagine.

 

[DiNozzo]

Personally, I don't think there's anything massively wrong in the advert.

Too long, slightly confusing/inconsistent at times re. confidence giver/nappiness.

I wouldn't mention napping at all in the advert on the basis that she does not do it now, although I would mention on first point of contact with any potential buyer that at X point in her life she did Y and Z.

Same with the soundness issues. If she is currently sound, and working at the level your advertising at, I would again mention that these things have been an issue in the past. I'd also mention any management required at this point too.

I don't think LeannePip has been dishonest at all, just fallen into the trap of familiarity.

 

[JFTDWS]

I haven't read all the posts but I think £4k for a horse that has had previous health issues and naps and is suitable only for someone to have a bit of fun on is rather a high price to pay.

I'm inclined to agree.

Re health issue disclosure - there are health issues and there are health issues. I wouldn't mention in an advert for F the two times he's seen a vet other than routine stuff so far. These were a rather dramatic abscess, and a chipped radius 5 years ago - both completely resolved and highly unlikely to have an effect on future soundness.

A soft tissue injury and a locking stifle in a working horse are a different ball park for medical history. They may well impact her soundness when back in full work, or if she's not managed appropriately, and they're definitely something the new owner needs to be aware of if they're going to take her on. I think the offer of £2750 was pretty reasonable, really. She's a lovely horse, but she's a fairly high risk investment for her target market.

 

[ihatework]

She is a nice stamp.
If you hand on heart think she is over the worst of the napping and that the stifles/tendon/ulcers are not an ongoing issue then I would put your money where your mouth is. Invest 6-8 weeks in getting her back up and running and ready to show off to her full potential.
I'd aim her as a competitive teenagers horse, and not as a confidence giving middle aged ladies horse (these slightly nappy welshies can pick up nervous vibes and play up). I'd shorten the ad and cut the waffle. I'd not offer a trial upfront (but hold this as a negotiation card if the right person comes along)

 

[JustKickOn]

A soft tissue injury and a locking stifle in a working horse are a different ball park for medical history. They may well impact her soundness when back in full work, or if she's not managed appropriately, and they're definitely something the new owner needs to be aware of if they're going to take her on. I think the offer of £2750 was pretty reasonable, really. She's a lovely horse, but she's a fairly high risk investment for her target market.

^^ my thoughts.

If a horse has locking stifles, I would want to know, before calling up - time wasting for the buyer otherwise.
Yes, you can manage the LS, have have them injected etc, but it is costly and will only mask the issue. For a horse that's 8, how much further down the line is issue going to occur again and will it affect the longevity of her career as a ridden horse?

It's a rather big blemish and this would worry me far more than any napping; you can't work this issue away. Fair enough if you're disclosing this to people over the phone, but it wastes their time if they're looking for a horse with sound joints and structures.

 

[Red-1]

Oh, I didn't think to check back history on here. If the horse you are selling is the one below I do think you need to declare the medical issues to any potential buyers:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?660091-Locking-Stifle-Treatment-Nightmare

I missed the medical issues. If I were selling a horse with these issues then yes, I would declare the issues to any interested parties. I put Charlie Horse on the market and declared his sweet itch, even though it was so controlled he no longer "suffered." I also declared that he once bruised a tendon. In fact, we ended up keeping him, and he became OH's horse, but I could not have withheld information.

Jay Man will never (foreseeably) be for sale, but if he were I would declare his issues, even though I hope they will be mended by next year. It is a matter of honesty for me. TBH, with dicky stifles, and needing ulcer treatment, and nappy behaviour, and being out of proper work since these issues, I would call the person back who offered £2,750 and snap their hand off! Or, probably I would not, unless they satisfied me that they were the right home.

 

[indie1282]

For the price she is advertised for I would expect a horse that is fit and ready to go, jumping consistently and schooled on the flat. In theory I would want the horse to be able to go out and compete in an ODE the next weekend for example.

The ad is a bit disjointed as a confidence giver should not be nappy! I think if it was my horse I would spend 6 - 8 weeks riding her on and getting her going - get over any napping issues if there are still some there and get her out and about competing so people can see her. I dont know about her medical history but assume she had/has locking stifles and some tendon injury? Depending on the extent I would personally want to disclose that info to a buyer - if you dont want to put it in the ad then fair enough but I would tell people if they called.

She looks like a really lovely horse and im sure whoever does buy her will have a cracker :-D

 

[SO1]

A lot of people will read between the lines when they read an advert.

People will wonder why a confidence giving competition horse has been in a hack home for a year and even though you have not mentioned the medical history will presume there has been some sort of problem which will put people off - she is not cheap enough for people to take a risk.

The napping - some people will presume it is worse than it is.

If you think she will pass a 5 stage vetting and her pervious medical issues are cured and will not affect her performance in the future and the napping is cured then don't mention it or the previous injuries. If your nervous mum has taken her x country recently and she is fit and jumping well then mention this in the advert don't mention the time she has off in the hacking home.

Don't market her as a confidence giver if you think she would not be suitable for a nervous or novice rider as it could be confusing. Think about the type of person who she would be suitable and write an advert that you think will attract that sort of person.

 

[AmyMay]

Actually, when I was looking for a horse I used to do exactly that, (ie just ask a general question about the horse) because a lot of people will babble on and tell you stuff they probably didn't intend to. So it's not necessarily a daft question from a buyer's perspective!

Exactly

 

[ester]

I think you have found her to be a confidence giver because you had her since she was a baby, know all about her, have done a lot with her etc and also ridden her at her worse and know that you can cope with her worst.
My mum has recently had that experience riding a very bouncy chap for a friend, she knows him well enough to just ignore him and he was fab for her jumping as very bold etc but watching others come and try him she could see why some were a bit more nervous of him.
Others don't have all that information and are just going to think the ad doesn't make sense.
I too don't think £2750 was a bad offer if it was the right home (was that with passed vetting?)

I know you say people will remember the bad bits but I read the ad thinking if I didnt know what I did from here I would have been sending it to a friend of mine, as it is you have posted quite extensively about her behaviour and medical issues and how much she did when she was quite young/you were working pupil etc. You do need to take into account the sort of insurance exclusions she would now have too. - whole GI and at least one/two legs I should think atm!?

Get her fit and going yourself, let the new one take a back step if necessary while you do as you need to show people she is fit and good to go and healthy and will pass a vet.

 

[FlyingCircus]

For a bit of perspective, I got a fit and ready to go 7yr old 15hh that has scope for BE100 for £3,500.
He flew the vetting, got vetting history from his previous owner and nothing aside from routine visits.
He was £750 CHEAPER than your horse.


ETA: To be competitive at BE100. Only reason he's not is his numpty rider (me!)

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

You can't have it both ways OP. When talking about her medical and behavioural issues, its all "that's when she was 4 or 5, its in the past, she's 8 now" but when talking about her talent (which she hasn't been asked to show for a few years), its "she's still the same horse".

If you state "confidence giver" you'll attract nervous people, many of whom will be novices or ineffective riders due to nerves. If she has the tendency to be "backwards thinking" as you say, that easily deteriorates into napping, in the wrong hands.

You also say she "hops up and down" explaining past behavior. Others on here have described it as rearing. Once a horse has learned behavioural faults the potential for them to revert to that behaviour is always there and most people looking for a "confidence giver" would run a mile from something with past rearing tendencies, however small the rears.

Then there's the leg injury. You're making out on this thread that it was nothing. If that's true, why didn't you rest her until sound then bring her back into full work with a fitness plan? Why the need to have a year out in a hacking home once sound? That doesn't sound like nothing to me.

This doesn't sound like a 4k horse. Between the adverts/Facebook/YouTube/forum posts, you're coming across as inconsistent and that would put me off buying her at any price.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I'm a huge Pip fan. I think you've just given far too much information.

I'd go with:

Welsh Part Bred Mare, 8yo, 15.3hh.
Heartbreaking sale of a really fun and safe horse. Has evented, hunted and jumped up to 1m, unaff. Dressage intro through to novice. Good to catch/ clip/ shoe/ load. Please call for more information. Short trail period will be considered.

When they call, I'd talk about the sort of home she needs and any issues she's had in the past.

 

[LeannePip]

I think this needs putting to bed, general consensus is she's advertised for too much, I've explained how I came to this figure and I haven't said its the right figure or even said I won't re consider a new price.

You're all banging on as if I'm some dodgy dealer flogging a lunatic of a horse as the next grassroots champ ready for a nervous nelly to jump round Badminton! I'm not! I have been completely upfront with everyone who calls or seems interested and am now getting ripped to shreds because you think she's advertised too high. Which is fine a price can be changed, but the reaction is unbelievable!

If anyone is in the area and wants to come and see her for yourself then do, I'm not hiding anything about her or her past, come in a guise if you really want to prove me wrong!

I have always tried to be a fair and honest poster, don't get involved in the nasties on the forum and offer any small bit of advice I can. yet the reception I get in here is similar to being a troll out to cause trouble, but I think I've had enough now, the advice from some posters has been great and been taken on board but the anxiety it causes to post in here isn't worth it.

 

[touchstone]

I think you've received some good advice, I agree with LadyGascoyne, keep the advert short and to the point and let the horse sell herself if they decide to try her out.

Selling is never any fun, but hopefully the right person will come along.

 

[ester]

You're all banging on as if I'm some dodgy dealer flogging a lunatic of a horse as the next grassroots champ ready for a nervous nelly to jump round Badminton! I'm not! I have been completely upfront with everyone who calls or seems interested and am now getting ripped to shreds because you think she's advertised too high. Which is fine a price can be changed, but the reaction is unbelievable!

I think you are reading things that aren't there. And yes I was presuming you were being upfront with people that call but you can't then call them time wasters if they are put off by the information they are told. The price point doesn't suggest issues to me so as a buyer I would likely feel the timewasting had been in the other direction!

I have always tried to be a fair and honest poster, don't get involved in the nasties on the forum and offer any small bit of advice I can. yet the reception I get in here is similar to being a troll out to cause trouble, but I think I've had enough now, the advice from some posters has been great and been taken on board but the anxiety it causes to post in here isn't worth it.

I don't think you have had that sort of that reception at all. I think you have been given sound and constructive crit to your post that you perhaps disagree with. I would have thought that you had been round here long enough to expect a practical opinions response rather than a poor you dealing with all those annoying potential purchasers post?
I brought up the health issues because I assumed you would be telling people about them on the phone, in which case it was pertinent for others to know that when you are saying that people are time wasting.


I have seen the advert several times over (IIRC it was lwvtb to start with but presume no takers on that) and every time think it doesn't quite fit with my understanding of the horse and been shocked by the subsequent price point and it is me/my friends sort of standard (RC, hunting, bit of dressage, fun rides etc) sort/type of horse, although all of us also enjoying disappearing for hours on hacks too.
Frank would just about be a schoolmaster (although not really for jumping) he has never, ever removed or threatened to remove his front legs from the floor. I am a pretty confident rider but would never choose to purchase something that knew how to do that/knew that it could be used as an evasion.

 

[LeannePip]

I think you are reading things that aren't there. And yes I was presuming you were being upfront with people that call but you can't then call them time wasters if they are put off by the information they are told. The price point doesn't suggest issues to me so as a buyer I would likely feel the timewasting had been in the other direction!



I don't think you have had that sort of that reception at all. I think you have been given sound and constructive crit to your post that you perhaps disagree with. I would have thought that you had been round here long enough to expect a practical opinions response rather than a poor you dealing with all those annoying potential purchasers post?
I brought up the health issues because I assumed you would be telling people about them on the phone, in which case it was pertinent for others to know that when you are saying that people are time wasting.


I have seen the advert several times over (IIRC it was lwvtb to start with but presume no takers on that) and every time think it doesn't quite fit with my understanding of the horse and been shocked by the subsequent price point and it is me/my friends sort of standard (RC, hunting, bit of dressage, fun rides etc) sort/type of horse, although all of us also enjoying disappearing for hours on hacks too.
Frank would just about be a schoolmaster (although not really for jumping) he has never, ever removed or threatened to remove his front legs from the floor. I am a pretty confident rider but would never choose to purchase something that knew how to do that/knew that it could be used as an evasion.

Sorry I never called any one a time waster, my complaint was I had written a very comprehensive add which I had thought answered a lot of questions but I still had had some odd and surprising conversations. Like i'v said I haven't sold before so didn't realise this was the done thing and apparently it is, I actually quite like chatting to people but regardless of this having the same conversation 3 times back to back is wearing, I know it needs to be done but still.

I actually had a lot of interest in her as a Loan, but unfortunately circumstances change and I am now not in the position to have her back at the drop of a hat again so have made the decision to sell, should this not work out I actually have the perfect loan home who are happy to have her but like I say at this point in time I need to sell.

Yes I agree a lot has been good constructive advice but some posters have the tact of a brick through a window, I think people forget that there is a person the othersise of the screen who has made the heartbreaking decision to sell a much loved horse who they thought they'd be able to keep forever.

 

[touchstone]

I know it can seem harsh when people are picking at your much loved horse, but remember that this is exactly what a prospective buyer will be doing, they don't have the emotional bond that you have and are probably wary about being sold something that isn't as described so will interrogate the seller and quite rightly. It can be hard though as you may feel your horse is being rubbished, which isn't true.

I'd advertise her as suggested and just see who comes along, you can always reduce her price if needed and I'm sure that she will sell, I think once people can see a horse and what it can do in the flesh then selling is much easier. You've just got to word your advert to attract the right person.

 

[stormox]

I know it can seem harsh when people are picking at your much loved horse, but remember that this is exactly what a prospective buyer will be doing, they don't have the emotional bond that you have and are probably wary about being sold something that isn't as described so will interrogate the seller and quite rightly. It can be hard though as you may feel your horse is being rubbished, which isn't true.

I think this is why sometimes its easier to put your horse on sales livery, or a yard that specialises in getting horses up and running and selling them for people, rather than selling yourself. A good, trusted professional yard with great facilities for showing her off might be a good idea.

 

[ester]

Yes I agree a lot has been good constructive advice but some posters have the tact of a brick through a window, I think people forget that there is a person the othersise of the screen who has made the heartbreaking decision to sell a much loved horse who they thought they'd be able to keep forever.

Well that's the internet for you, though fwiw I would say the same in real life and had said the same to friend who is looking when I saw the ad. I wouldn't have randomly brought it up but since you started a post thought it appropriate to comment in order that selling her might become easier for you. I perhaps didn't realise quite how cut up you were about it given that you have a replacement rather than selling because a change in circumstances mean you cannot keep her and she has been elsewhere for a year.

Sorry I never called any one a time waster,

sorry you did, otherwise I wouldn't have said it

She's been up for sale for about 10 days and already I'm fed up of potentials and time wasters!

Against some peoples opinions, wrote a huge comprehensive add to hopefully answer a lot of questions and just get some serious enquiries. nope . . . i have had;

- 'Hello, could you tell me about your horse please . . .' this really bugs me because the add has so much detail in so what do you want to know . . .

It has been discussed why people do this, to see what information gets given up.

- have had huge conversations with people think they seem perfect and look forward to a viewing, for them to say at the end would you be happy to loan for a year or so first . . . my add does say potential trial short loan period as horse is just coming back into work but a year is taking the biscuit.

I suspect they have seen the for loan ad too and presume that might still be an option.

- people getting annoyed with me over the phone when i am honest and say i'm selling because i want to event seriously (Grassroots plus) and i don't think thats what she wants to do - as if i've mis advertised her in some way! I'm selling her as a 'fun, safe, confidence giver' and have in no-way implied that she is a serious top level competition prospect for any particular discipline!

For a lot of people grassroots/novice eventing is not eventing seriously and you would expect most prospects of her type and age to be able to do BE90/100.

If you are struggling with it all too much perhaps sales livery would be the best option, they can get her up, going and competing and deal with all the strange phone calls.

 

[Farma]

I don't know if I am alone in thinking I would be more interested with all of this info available, every time I buy a horse I have to second guess why its being sold, try to read through the stories being told, and often find out along the lines after buying numerous issues that may have been in its history, normally after 1 or 2 viewings you still know so little you have to take a gamble, having read all this I would be thinking well at least I know exactly what I am getting into (assuming the horse would pass a vetting!).

 

[The wife]

On the other hand, sellers that change the goal posts and change their minds as per my most recent post!

Pony for sale, offer accepted, supposed to be arriving this morning. Got a phone call last night, they now want to loan it with a view to buy.

No thank you

 

[LeannePip]

Well that's the internet for you, though fwiw I would say the same in real life and had said the same to friend who is looking when I saw the ad. I wouldn't have randomly brought it up but since you started a post thought it appropriate to comment in order that selling her might become easier for you. I perhaps didn't realise quite how cut up you were about it given that you have a replacement rather than selling because a change in circumstances mean you cannot keep her and she has been elsewhere for a year.

Ester, i get it, she's not suitable for your friend! that's absolutely fine - shes not going to be suitable for everyone but she will be perfect for some one out there! None of your posts have made it easier to sell her, much the opposite.

Its rather callous of you to think or say I wouldn't be cut up because i have a replacement which is 100% not the case. We are still talking about a horse whom i have owned since a yearling and been through alot with! how you'd imagine there isn't an emotional attachment to the horse regardless of the fact shes been out on loan for almost a year is beyond me!

As if i need to explain myself, we bought a second horse to come along side her, unfortunately this all fell around a time where she had a few medical problems as has been pointed out. And as we ended up buying a horse younger than planned she needed a lot more time/ work dedicating to her for the time being so i was going to leave Pip out for the summer to chill however a friend asked if they could have to her hack out so it seemed like a nice compromise as living in a field with no work didn't agree with her waist line! So off she went. Last month they unfortunately gave notice to end the loan due to a change in their circumstances and i am no longer in the position to keep two on a long term basis, hence the reason for the sale. I have only ever tried to do the best by this horse sought medical and other advice when it is needed and probably followed some bad advice for too long as well but my interests have and always will be what is best for this special horse.

 

[ester]

It is more that I just wasn't aware that we needed to take your emotional attachment into account when pointing out some solutions to the very practical issues you are going to encounter when selling her. Sorry that you have apparently found none of mine helpful even though I think they also mostly reiterate what others have said buy hey, we must all be wrong. I still maintain no one has treated you like a troll selling something to a novice that will go round badminton and I think you are being over sensitive because it isn't the response you wanted. I wouldn't sell mine if I was that attached to them.

It is not just my friend it is the many people I know who are the market she would be aimed at, and me when Frank finally goes, and they would not want something that naps out of a start box! You surely have to agree that an advert that reads confidence giver that naps seems a bit of an oxymoron and likely to confuse?

Yet you are the one that then pulls me up and says you didn't call anyone a timewaster when it is there, in your very first post!!

 

[Lammy]

I think for this current market, she is overpriced - I could find something like her with her quirks for around the 3k mark. She might be more suitable to sell as a hunter or for a competitive teen/young rider who wants a fun riding club horse. I think with the napping, however minor, discredits her from being a confidence giver - personally I wouldn't expect a confidence giving type to do this on any occasion. I would also mention the previous medical issue but state that this no longer affects her.

I've read the whole thread and can't see that anyone has outright attacked you, some blunt posts but nothing worse than that - though I do see it would be hard to take people pointing out all the negative attributes of your horse. I hope you manage to get a nice home for her.

 

[The wife]

OP, I am really sorry but i got bored reading your advert. It's about 4 paragraphs too long and is, to be brutally honest, boring.

I may be being callous here but as a potential buyer, I don't need to know her whole history and I also would not call her a confidence giver, given that she naps. I also don't want to be reading through lots of jumbled text to find out she is an excellent all-rounder, mannerly to hunt and can do a bit of everything - see I summed her up in a sentence then.

Shorten it and put the basics in. Yes the napping is important but I personally would not put it in an advert, I would word it perhaps, not 100% to hack on her own.

Remove the word 'Flashy', it is subjective. I am going to be mean now and it is only a personal view so don't take it the wrong way. I would not call her flashy in the slightest. She is pretty but flashy springs up mental images of Valegro, top class dressage horses and such and also will not be aiming her at your target market.

In summary, cut your advert by 75% put the necessary stuff in and word it better. There has been alot of advice on here about re-wording the advert and using better images and think more about your target audience - fun teenagers horse, amateurs dream etc. Get people on the phone and then you can explain about the napping and tell people she is your best friend, that you have owned her from a yearling etc etc.