FEI descision on AT is in..

I can't believe it. How could she not have realised?!

How can they be so daft as to believe her version! Of course she would say that!

The benefits of being a name I guess...
 
I don't think it was enough.
Whether she was aware or not and personally I don't think she was, more in a state of almost frenzy I think to finish, she should be made a massive example of.
A two year ban at least and ten fold fine would have hit where it hurts.
It has however made people more aware of injured horses.
When Chocx fell at S Lovell last week, his owner was over here from Antigue and ran like a hare down to him. She took him off the steward and went to move him a couple of steps to see just how bad he was, as at that stage all of us wondered if he had broken his leg. Instantly there were yells from the jump judge of stand still, and when the owner ignored them as the horse himself wanted to move forwards a stride, the judge was joined in her shouting by at least half a dozen spectators.
So that poor horse didn't die in vain. I think from now on spectators, judges and competitors will all be very much more aware that if a horse is injured you stop and think what you're doing.
In our case, the owner told me later, she felt the horse ask to walk forward to ease the pain he was in and she allowed him to step a couple of strides, it was also for her own benefit to see if she was going to have to make a decision to have him euthanised he looked that lame..
I'm pleased to say he is sound as a pound and fighting fit...
I tend to wonder what goes through AT mind at night, let's face it, would you want to carry that burden round the rest of your life?
 
She's basically been fined meat money for killing that horse £404.24, would have been kinder to have shot him at the start of the event if that is what the FEI thinks a horses life is worth - now we all know.
 
I am curious about the reasoning applied on these BBs, so I'd like to ask the same question here that I asked somewhere else:

Would you jump a big, wide table on a horse that was three-legged lame?

If you read the entire FEI report, you'll find that AT says she thought the horse had thrown a shoe or was losing a boot. She also says she felt the horse "right itself" (meaning, it's stride evened out and felt more normal), which she felt meant the shoe or boot had gotten thrown clear.

Now think about that a moment...You're rounding a corner, your horse feels like it has a flat tire, you debate on pulling up or circling (which is what she said in her testimony--she thought about it), but then the horse starts feeling more normal.

What do you do?

Meanwhile, if the horse DID NOT start feeling normal--if his gait got worse and worse--would you risk a fatal, rotational fall by trying to get him over that last jump? He needs both front legs to push off the ground. If you, the rider, feel one of those legs is shot to pieces, do you think he's going to get over the jump? IF IF IF you are feeling he's in bad shape, you know he could "chest" the jump and go arse-over-teakettle, don't you? So why would you continue?

AT's explanation is reasonable to me, although her judgment call was NOT. A loose shoe can cause a nail to puncture the sole of the hoof. A boot can get entangled in other legs and cause a nasty fall. Both are dangerous and thus reasons to pull up, no matter where you are on the course.

But that said, if you are determined to villify her, isn't it more rational to do so because she took an unacceptable risk in deciding on how to handle what she thought was an equipment malfunction than because she cold-bloodedly disregarded her horse's pain? When you are deciding on whether to jump a 3'6" square table on 1200 lbs of horse, the former (equipment malfunction) would be a stupid gamble, but the latter (choosing to ignore severe pain) would be insane.
 
Not quite sure about this really. Either there are legalities that we dont know about or its the establishment having too much power. Stinks of corruption to me.

But at least she HAS been suspended and fined, be it trivial. The could have let her off completely.

I hope public opinion will do more damage in the long term. If you have a good horse are you going to let someone like that ride it? I wouldnt and would hope that many others would follow suit.

The incident should be career damaging. So if the FEI wont make it so, public opinion should.
 
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I am curious about the reasoning applied on these BBs, so I'd like to ask the same question here that I asked somewhere else:

Would you jump a big, wide table on a horse that was three-legged lame?

If you read the entire FEI report, you'll find that AT says she thought the horse had thrown a shoe or was losing a boot. She also says she felt the horse "right itself" (meaning, it's stride evened out and felt more normal), which she felt meant the shoe or boot had gotten thrown clear.

Now think about that a moment...You're rounding a corner, your horse feels like it has a flat tire, you debate on pulling up or circling (which is what she said in her testimony--she thought about it), but then the horse starts feeling more normal.

What do you do?

Meanwhile, if the horse DID NOT start feeling normal--if his gait got worse and worse--would you risk a fatal, rotational fall by trying to get him over that last jump? He needs both front legs to push off the ground. If you, the rider, feel one of those legs is shot to pieces, do you think he's going to get over the jump? IF IF IF you are feeling he's in bad shape, you know he could "chest" the jump and go arse-over-teakettle, don't you? So why would you continue?

AT's explanation is reasonable to me, although her judgment call was NOT. A loose shoe can cause a nail to puncture the sole of the hoof. A boot can get entangled in other legs and cause a nasty fall. Both are dangerous and thus reasons to pull up, no matter where you are on the course.

But that said, if you are determined to villify her, isn't it more rational to do so because she took an unacceptable risk in deciding on how to handle what she thought was an equipment malfunction than because she cold-bloodedly disregarded her horse's pain? When you are deciding on whether to jump a 3'6" square table on 1200 lbs of horse, the former (equipment malfunction) would be a stupid gamble, but the latter (choosing to ignore severe pain) would be insane.

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You've seen her testimony - is there a link to it, or were you at the hearing?

You've obviously never seen the video footage as you would never believe the story about the horse losing a boot/shoe. Was she still trying the it locked itself on the fence line and she couldn't pull it off at the hearing?

Can I ask you a question? If you're riding a horse and it stumbles and then repeatedly tries to pull itself up, breaks to trot several times, would you continue to jump the last fence or would you let it do what it wants to do and stop?
 
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I am curious about the reasoning applied on these BBs, so I'd like to ask the same question here that I asked somewhere else:

Would you jump a big, wide table on a horse that was three-legged lame?

If you read the entire FEI report, you'll find that AT says she thought the horse had thrown a shoe or was losing a boot. She also says she felt the horse "right itself" (meaning, it's stride evened out and felt more normal), which she felt meant the shoe or boot had gotten thrown clear.

Now think about that a moment...You're rounding a corner, your horse feels like it has a flat tire, you debate on pulling up or circling (which is what she said in her testimony--she thought about it), but then the horse starts feeling more normal.

What do you do?

Meanwhile, if the horse DID NOT start feeling normal--if his gait got worse and worse--would you risk a fatal, rotational fall by trying to get him over that last jump? He needs both front legs to push off the ground. If you, the rider, feel one of those legs is shot to pieces, do you think he's going to get over the jump? IF IF IF you are feeling he's in bad shape, you know he could "chest" the jump and go arse-over-teakettle, don't you? So why would you continue?

AT's explanation is reasonable to me, although her judgement call was NOT. A loose shoe can cause a nail to puncture the sole of the hoof. A boot can get entangled in other legs and cause a nasty fall. Both are dangerous and thus reasons to pull up, no matter where you are on the course.

But that said, if you are determined to vilify her, isn't it more rational to do so because she took an unacceptable risk in deciding on how to handle what she thought was an equipment malfunction than because she cold-bloodedly disregarded her horse's pain? When you are deciding on whether to jump a 3'6" square table on 1200 lbs of horse, the former (equipment malfunction) would be a stupid gamble, but the latter (choosing to ignore severe pain) would be insane.

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I'm going to stick my neck on the chopping board and say I agree with that sentiment. I've seen the Kentucky video before you all start barbecuing me, and I can see why AT would have thought it was an equipment malfunction rather than a "broken leg"
I've been watching equestrian sport most of my life (I'm 42) and I've seen some ugly things happen to horses on cross country courses, and seen the rider get back on a carry on riding round the rest of the course (in the days before you were eliminated for a fall).
I remember watching a top international rider and horse turn a somersault at a jump and he got up and carried on despite the fact that the horse could've broken it's pelvis,
Numerous "nose dives" where the horse's face hit the ground - which could've broken it's neck - and they carried on.
I've seen a horse tread on it's overreach boot mid-way through a combination fence and the rider start thrashing with their whip because they thought the horse was refusing - no thought given to "oh has the horse hurt itself and is trying to stop?" just get over the jump
Plus the incident I mentioned elsewhere where a horse cracked his head -hard- on the second part of a bounce fence, and despite the fact that there was blood gushing from the horse's nose the rider rode on...

I've looked closely at the Kentucky video, yes Le Samurai stumbles, yes he trots awkwardly for a few strides, and I can imagine; given the undulation of the ground; that any rider might have thought "he's lost his balance" and was running on his forehand for a few strides, I can see the horse pricking his ears when he sees the jump, I can see him pop over and land using all 4 of his legs.

On the run-in he starts to seriously loose his action, and the rider pulls up and dismounts, she looks around for her ground staff to come help - she does not slap, or hit the horse, or fiddle with the tack before stomping off in the huff because the horse had ruined her chance of winning.

The general opinion around here seems to be that she forced Le Samurai to carry on knowing full well that he'd suffered a fatal injury because she was determined to win. How was she supposed to compete in the following day's showjumping on a dead, or 3 legged horse anyways...?

As an aside, if I was one of those animal rights activists who wants equine sports banned I'd be rubbing my hands in glee at the reactions on this board to what happened at Kentucky; a few mis-quotes and out of context references will go a long way to help their "cause" in the eyes of the non-horsey...
hells bells if the H&H set think this woman should have been hung, drawn and quartered for riding her horse in a competition... now where did I leave my pitchfork and flaming torch?? Ah they're rallying at Bandminton to protest *jump on bandwaggon*

Oh and if you're intending to scream abuse at me for expressing my opinion which is in conflict with yours, and we all know it's against all laws to have an opinion that isn't in keeping with the majority... my email addy is
me@face-not-bothered
 
2 months?! What a joke. I agree with SD, she has literally got away with murder. That poor horse was destroyed. Load of rubbish saying she didn't know it was that serious.
 
Do you know I fully respected your opionion and your right to express it until the childish email address at the end
 
I'd just like to congratulate you on one of the few well-reasoned posts on the Le Samurai topic. I've read the 30 page document on the FEI website, and watched the video, and while I think Amy's suspension could have been rather longer and/or fine heavier, I think it was a fair punishment.

While all of us who care about horses absolutely hate to see injuries and accidents to them, we have to accept that from time to time they are inevitable. I do think Amy should have pulled up sooner, but nobody is perfect, and I believe that it was a genuine mistake on her part. There are far more cases of real abuse - often caused by ignorance, or bad riding.
 
Actually, I was there. My horse placed third.

I was standing in front of the jumbotron when it happened--and you could see something flapping around the horse's leg, in fact. Indeed, when LS went so horribly off, I said to my friend, "Oh, no, he's got a loose bandage!" Three seconds later, I also said, "Why isn't she pulling up?"

Y'know, I was in such a state of confusion that I cannot remember if the camera angle changed after that. I can't remember if we saw them take the last jump on the jumbotron or if I saw it on the every-ride-of-the-day DVD I bought. I don't think it was on the jumbotron because I remember the shock in the crowd when we saw it happen, but I don't remember the horror I felt when seeing on video the horse pulling up on three legs.

Anyway, neither here nor there. I think the report is very good reading. Roycroft (I think was the name) argued most of what folks here have argued. If you don't get the chance to read the report, you should at least feel better to know that much of your concerns--your outrage--DID seem to be represented by his voice during the hearing.

Overall, I think it was a fair and balanced hearing. The FEI did not ignore any aspect of the situation--EXCEPT the public outcry, of course. I remain ambivalent about the extent of the punishment. There is no precedent. Tough call.
 
Thinking to myself what an educated and well thought out post that was until the email address at the end. 42 years of age, you say, what a shame that you felt the need to ruin it
 
Pwynnorman,

Please give me a break, something floping around the leg.

You are trying to rationalizing this decision, as you did at the coth.

The desaster started way down the track at jump 25 Normadie Bank were she started to use the whip at LS AFTER the jump.

She used the whip several times more AFTER the jump. The rersult was then the break down.

The abuse started long before the break down.

ONe more thing, since your jockey on your horse ??? was an expert vitness, I would be worried for your horse.

FEI = For Equestrien Industry
 
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For me the FEI is a spineless organisation anyway and I think the 2 month ban is a good thing. Yes its not very long but they are judging her guilty and that judgement will stay with her for the rest of her life as it deserves to be.

For me this officially and legally tarnishes her and judges her guilty. This is better than her getting away with a fine or with what I fully expected a pat on the back from David O Connor and CMP for being put through hell. Nobody can stand by now and say poor old Amy.

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As much as I think the sentence is too soft, I think I'm in complete agreement with lec. I also agree with a few others, I don't think it was ever her intention to ride the horse to its death, but she should've undoubtedly pulled up immediately.
 
I think 2 months is a pathetic sentence for what she did, no matter what she thought was going wrong, she should have pulled up to determine the exact reason, lost shoe, boot or bandage issues, hopping lame...there are no excuses. And as there were apparrent problems earlier on in the course, there was even more call for her to stop. Surely an important part of the sport is to be able to think on your feet anbd stay aware, its XC for god sake, if you can't notice and react to a problem like that you shouldn't be doing it, particularly not at that level. A brave and talented horse lost it's life, he deserves more respect
 
flintus, I'm not following you. Please explain what you mean about my age?

And, gnoib, I think you are misreading me. Nothing I wrote excuses her. Please notice that there is a difference between an EXPLANATION and an EXCUSE. I accept her explanation because it makes sense when no others that have been offered do. I have NEVER said anything to the effect that I excuse her for what she did.

And I have absolutely no reason to lie about what I saw and said in front of the jumbotron that day. That accusation, too, is a fairly irrational response on your part, IMO, and I remain curious as to why (why some folks resist being rational about this, that is).
 
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I'm going to stick my neck on the chopping board and say I agree with that sentiment. I've seen the Kentucky video before you all start barbecuing me, and I can see why AT would have thought it was an equipment malfunction rather than a "broken leg"
I've been watching equestrian sport most of my life (I'm 42) and I've seen some fugly things happen to horses on cross country courses, and seen the rider get back on a carry on riding round the rest of the course (in the days before you were eliminated for a fall).
I remember watching a top international rider and horse turn a somersault at a jump and he got up and carried on despite the fact that the horse could've broken it's pelvis,
Numerous "nose dives" where the horse's face hit the ground - which could've broken it's neck - and they carried on.
I've seen a horse tread on it's overreach boot mid-way through a combination fence and the rider start thrashing with their whip because they thought the horse was refusing - no thought given to "oh has the horse hurt itself and is trying to stop?" just get over the jump
Plus the incident I mentioned elsewhere where a horse cracked his head -hard- on the second part of a bounce fence, and despite the fact that there was blood gushing from the horse's nose the rider rode on...


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Doesn't make any of it right. And maybe this is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe this is the time and place we say that riders need to get over the push 'em on and hope for the best mentality. I had hoped this descision would but a serious stop to some of the riding we see XC these days - as this was caught on tape and too difficult to hide. Just because others have behaved poorly and gotten away with it doesn't make it right. I was so hoping that this would be the beginning of real change.

Samurai was seriously off - way off. And continuing on to that jump just was dangerous riding. They weren't in the middle of a combination where the only options were to jump out with power or crash. She had time to decide.

If the horse had "lost the supporting structure" of the left front in that one step, would that not competely change the how the horse FELT when that leg landed and pushed off? Would it have not lost the normal elastic give of the other three? What about that would like losing a bandage, boot or shoe? For a couple of strides, maybe - but after that? And if it was only a partial tear, then yes, continuing on did him in. But, oddly enough, the Tribunal did not support the partial tear theory.

SCFarm
 
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flintus, I'm not following you. Please explain what you mean about my age?


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flintus was not responding to you, but to Lobelia_Overhill, I believe.

SCFarm
 
PW,

Your explanation and your understanding for her explanation is not very understandable.

This is not a bow, or a pulled shoe or a torn boot etc.

Boots, bells and shoes get torn of all the time and you hardly notice it or not at all. A bow will be felt only if they are massiv, it is rather difficult to feel that in a gallop at high speeds.
But this was a massive break down and you feel those as a rider, you know the instant it happened. I speak out of experiance because it happened to me twice.
You know the moment it happened.

A slipped or torn boot, or a lost shoe you hardly or never notice.
A shoe feels like a stumbel thats it, one or maybe two strides.

Her explanation and the explanations of the top riders are just plain rubbish and they know it.

She knew and if she realy did not than that puts a question mark behinder her reputation as a first class Horsewoman and you can only wonder how she did become an international rider with all those medals, titels and ribbons.
 
I've just slogged through the whole report, and AT is almost believable until this section. (I can't remember the section number, and it takes too long to scroll back through)

The competitor testified that she did not realise where the finish line had been, stating that;

''I had no idea where I was. It was not a conscious thought of where I was versus where the finish was. I was more concerned of pulling him up in a straight line. It definitely took me quite a few strides to pull him up, but I was trying to pull him up in a straight line, quietly, without causing any harm.''

There is not a competitor in the world who doesn't know where the end of the XC course is. Especially when it is staring her in the face.
And as for trying to pull him up....she patently rode to the line and jumped off as soon as she crossed it.

The minimal ban is a joke, but sadly testament to the nepotism that exists in the sport. At least Wayne Roycroft was true to form and spoke his mind and the truth.
I'm apalled at Lucinda, although I might surmise that she's doing it for damage control to the sport. I expect if AT got the sizeable ban that most of us seem to think she deserves, it would have made detrimental headlines outside the sport.
I think that by ostensibly brushing the magnitude of what she did under the carpet, in the long run the sport will suffer.
I hope what goes around comes around, in her case.
 
Indeed. How does she explain the fact that the horse broke into a trot between the final jump and the finish line and was kicked back into a canter until they'd crossed the line and the fact that as soon as she stopped riding him on the horse stopped dead (sorry, bad choice of words there).
 
"A slipped or torn boot, or a lost shoe you hardly or never notice. A shoe feels like a stumbel thats it, one or maybe two strides."

gnoib, I have been a serious rider for 35 years. I know what a loose shoe can feel like and what a boot or wrap can feel like when they are coming off. And I'm reasonable enough to use the word CAN, not absolutes, like you. The world is not black and white, whether you want it to be or not. A shoe can be coming off, coming off, coming off...for quite a few strides, especially if it has clips and the horse has a good foot. They don't all just rip off. Same with boots.

If you want to question her veracity about this, though, I'd look at the video for yourself and examine the horse's rhythm. I have NOT done this myself, so while I still hold that what she said is a reasonable explanation, you might be able to justify your position by checking to see if the horse DID more-or-less "right" himself after the initial awful scramble. Me, I haven't the heart to keep looking at that video.

And let me remind you, gnoib, as I said elsewhere, my comments in this area are directed at the central question we were asking: "What was she THINKING?" That's what was so inexplicable, until now. And, please, don't leap to another irrational conclusion by reading what I just read as an excuse or justification for her actions. I, and everyone watching that day I think, was just dumbfounded as to why she didn't pull up. Between AT and the FEI, we now have two explanations, BOTH of which, IMO, are acceptable: AT thought it was an equipment malfunction; the FEI concluded it was inexcusable ignorance. Neither admitted, nor accepted any INTENT on AT's part--and that, too, is fair, IMO, since anything else would have been crazy.

Lastly, when it comes to AT continuing to deny that what she did was abuse, well, that's nothing more than semantics, IMO. She can define abuse however she wants for as long as she wants, but it won't change the FEI's definition so that whole issue seems moot to me.
 
Statement from Amy Tryon Regarding FEI Ruling

I would like to express my appreciation to the Tribunal of the Federation Equestre Internationale (FEI) Judicial Committee for its consideration and determination in this matter. I am prepared to accept the Tribunal's decision for the good of the sport. I would also like to thank my husband Greg, the Broussard family, Captain Mark Phillips, Karen O'Connor, and the hundreds of people that have written letters to me over the last two and a half months. Your support has helped to get me through this very difficult time. I also want to reiterate my unequivocal apology to the Tribunal, the FEI, the USEF, the Broussards, and Eventers and horsepeople everywhere for the mistake I made during the cross country at the Lexington Three-Day Event. I misperceived the situation and acted incorrectly. Had I known that Le Samurai was injured in any way, I would have pulled up immediately. In the sport of Eventing, the welfare of the horse must be paramount at all times. I firmly believe in this principle, and to the extent that my actions on April 28, 2007 appeared inconsistent with it, I again want to express how truly sorry I am. Most importantly, I want to again express my devastation at having lost Sparky as a friend and a partner, and how much I miss him.


http://www.useventing.com/aboutus.php?id=1041
 
Apology - too little too late IMO.

I am disgusted at this ruling, in some way even more so because they recognised the abuse and then only had a paltry 2 month ban. It makes me feel like crying, two months is no time at all.

I sincerely hope that she gets heavily booed if she dares to show her face here.
 
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but PLEASE dont boo her when she is riding... theres a horse that deserves better and we shoould admire that

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Le Samurai deserved better...even his owner isn't standing up for him.

As for booing her, hopefully, if nothing else comes of this, the owners must think twice before giving her another horse, and if they don't , they are knowingly chancing a lot of negative reaction. Doesn't matter who the horse is, Amy T is going to create controversy and negative reaction, you put her on your horse, you take what comes. It's again, very sad for the horses..
If the FEI won't make the loss of a horse into a big enough deal that riders will err on the side of caution, then perhaps the public's outrage and subsequent negative consequences will make them sit up and take notice.
As for me, I've got a whole list of sponsors from her website that I will no longer be buying from and the emails letting them know how I feel about their having her representing them start now. Pathetic. The FEI takes pains to make it clear in their decision that the publics feelings were not taken into any sort of account. Do they think we have no voice whatsoever?? Maybe not with the FEI (obviously) but the businesses that sponsor her will bloody well sit up and take notice if a big lot of consumers are no longer purchasing their products...so very sad all around but I refuse to lie down and do nothing
 
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