FIELDS! A YO verses livery perspective

[Polos Mum]

Normally I'd say it's harsh to change the turnout rules once people have arrived but this years weather really has been unusual.
OP how long do you usually rest your winter paddock in spring/ summer? with extensive rolling/ re seeding you should be able to get even the worst of fields back to being usable by next winter - but clearly that will all cost money.
I'd weigh up the cost of helping it recover over the cost of loosing a few liveries if you changed the rules.
If you need the field at all over the summer I'd also keep in mind that these will be the same liveries that will leave in the spring when you still can't offer perfect turnout because of the damage done in Jan.

My opinions have changed completely since moving from being on livery yards to owning my own land. I have 1 17hh and one 14hh (both unshod currently) and my 12 acres is just about enought to cope with them (it is heavy clay), with me being comfortable I will have spring turnout and 2 acres to make their hay in the summer - I can't imagine keeping them on the 'recommended' acre each!!!!

 

[Starzaan]

It sounds like it has!

Would my wages be in cake? ..I can live with that

Definitely.

I sort of wish my liveries paid in cake.....

 

[Rowreach]

Definitely.

I sort of wish my liveries paid in cake.....

Some of mine think it's ok to pay in wine However, there is only so much wine I can drink, and you can't use it to pay the rates

 

[Natch]

Horses evolved to be out, and standing in a stable, no matter how roomy, isn't good for their physical or psychological wellbeing. I wouldn't want my horse to end up with no, or severely restricted turnout, although I think most of us completely understand the need to manage the land. Could you switch to short day turnout?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I rent my own yard and grazing-I have one horse and two Exmoor ponies, the ponies have always lived out 24/7 and the horse mostly out 24/7. I've just not been able to do it this year and nor have I wanted to. It's been too wet, I don't want them standing in water all day (none of them have mud fever), its crap for their feet. so they are all in over night-with the exception of two weekends when I had them in 24/7. They are on 4 acres of good grass. It's costing me more in hay and bedding. Its harder work. I suck it up.
people should really try managing their own land before moaning about paying £25 pw and having restricted TO in the last year.

 

[Gingerwitch]

But the whole point is... she has not closed the fields... she has asked for them to be sensible - offered them yard turnout the use of a school - it is probably only for a week or two.

 

[Cortez]

Not a livery yard owner at the moment, 'tho I have been, and my own horses are off the fields for the forseeable future. Land management is not usually a strong point of the horse owning fraternity - just look at the number of nettle, dock and ragwort infested scraps of land euphemistically called "paddocks". Liveries need to think of the land, not just themselves or their horses.

 

[DipseyDeb]

Our YO has had to close our fields because of the wet, she has, however, offered us an alternative, a paddock we can rota so we can still have some turn out. We also have an indoor school. Although my boy is a fair-weather creature and tends to stand at the gate with a 'are you having a laugh' look on his face, so there is really no point of me fretting, limited turnout has made no difference to his demeanor. He also has a stable that looks into the indoor school, so spends a lot time watching the 'telly'

 

[amandaco2]

Mine are on a concrete yard atm
I'd be very happy to use such a yard.....
I'd personally be less happy about turn out in the arena due to churning the surface, hay contamination and problems with people leaving turned out horses when others want to ride....

 

[Polos Mum]

But the whole point is... she has not closed the fields... she has asked for them to be sensible - offered them yard turnout the use of a school - it is probably only for a week or two.

But sadly they seem to be ignoring her very common sense and practical approach so they may need the law laying down if they can't be convinced that a few weeks of not ideal (in their eyes) turnout isn't worth the long term availability of the grazing.

 

[conkers]

OP. I feel for you. I think that your liveries are being unreasonable. Why do people think it is better for horses to be stood in a boggy, muddy field with little grass rather than a dry stable with a hay net.

Tell them that you are restricting turn out to half a day to save the field for future use. Or that you are increasing the cost of their livery to £50 a week to cover the cost of putting the field back in order in the spring.

You sound like a lovely, caring YO. Its a pity that there aren't more like you.

 

[L&M]

Genrally liveries do not own their own land - therefore often have little or no concept of how hard it is to manage and maintain land, especially with last years bad weather.

My fear as a YO is being left with un-useable land, and constantly have to weigh up the short term happiness of my clients, versus the long term productivity of my grazing.

It's a toughie!

 

[AmyMay]

Following on from Cortez's post, can I just add to my previous post that the yards I have been on have beautifully managed land. No ragwort, weeds or docks.

But back to the original post, I can understand restricting TO to 4 hours a day under the circumstances - just would be unhappy about grazing being withdrawn (which I know is not). Or horse being turned out on the concrete yard.

Of course this means more work for everyone, not least Op, who would have to bring everything in. But I can't see anyone objecting to that.

 

[fine_and_dandy]

I appreciate that you need to look after the land and the weather has been awful. However, I am another that would not entertain taking my horse to a yard where turnout was restricted. 24/7 turnout is one of the things I won't budge on. Bailey likes being in but needs enough turnout to chill and just be a horse.

I've been to a couple of yards to look round recently, and none of them turnout in winter. Some of the horses don't actually go in the field for 5 months. A horse imo will not get the benefits of chilling in a field by being grazed in hand or ridden. It is not a sufficient environment for them to express themselves.

Perhaps the way forward is to explain you'll need to increase livery in order to invest in improving the fields by e.g. putting hardcore down etc.

Hope it sorts

 

[jjbarney]

Good for you Rowreach. I would not want my own horses to stay in 24/7 so very rarely say they have to stop in. To be exact they have stayed in 5 days in 22 years. Having said that 3 of those days were in one week this year. This year has been atrocious, weather wise and you are very lucky if you have fields you are not losing wellies in.
My liveries pay a set amount for haylage each week ad lib, so it doesn't cost them any extra at all. I have had one girl whose horse has been on box rest now for six weeks. She is still paying me the equivalent for very good haylage as she would for one good bale of hay a week, ie £5. She has not once offered to give me any extra for the fact that the horse must be munching its way through at least 3/4 bales per week.
My liveries pay £25 a week. For that you provide electricity, you provide storage for endless amounts of equipment, rugs, saddles, bridles, feed, keep their trailer on hard standing, provide a floodlit menage which they usually forget to turn the lights off in, until they leave for home. provide outside floodlights so they don't fall over anything getting to the stables, have the hedges cut, the fields harrowed and rolled. The list is endless. I don't care if I do get shot. I bet all you liveries if you had your own land would be the first ones to say, you are not going out and wrecking my fields

 

[Cheiro1]

My yard has restricted turnout at the moment, so horses are out about 8-1, which is similar most winters as it is very wet land.

This works for me, my girl gets out everyday and she is happy.

I wouldn't be very happy if I was told she couldn't go out at all, but we have all weather turnout pens too so that would never happen

 

[Enfys]

Sits on hands and backs out of this thread,

after I say this though ....

those same liveries will be whinging when the fields are hock deep in mud and their horse has pulled a shoe/tendon etc. Can't please all of the people all of the time, try as you will

 

[coralwings20]

im afraid us yo's can't win! :-( my winter grazing is on sandy soil, no mud in sight (seriously amazing) & thus we have no restrictions on to. most horses are still living out 24/7 & have been on winter grazing for over three months & now the whinging at lack of grass has started. so it doesn't matter what you offer - will NEVER be good enough so i ignore it now. people will vote with their feet & i have very little turnover of liveries & a huge waiting list.

 

[Foxhunter49]

I sympathise with you.

Quite honestly there are so many people owning horses now that are fixated in opinions that have become the 'fad' of natural as possible and will not budge on the idea.

This weather has been exceptional. If liveries want turn out in the summer then they have to restrict grazing with the ground being as wet as it is.

How will these horse 'chill out' if they have pulled a tendon or got a bad over reach or mud fever and have to stand in?

I do know that my horses dislike being out in the wet. They stand around in the rain looking miserable and hoping that someone will come and get them in.
When the bridleway gate was left open three of the youngsters escaped. They cam back up the road and were stood in the loose shed eating their hay. They could have gone anywhere!

 

[Moobucket]

This is true! There's been lots of long faces... and some tutting... but noone has actually left yet... or indeed even looks like they might... and if they did they'd be replaced in no time.

So whats the draw back with concrete yards. I think they are not bad. Mine has a varied surface of just concrete and an long 20x2 meter area with deep pea gravel for their hooves to dry out (like at Rockley farm). There's alot a shelter at one end with an abundance of hay. My lad prefers it to the field at the minute and gets a pal in there so he can mutual groom. It's also a different view than from his stable.

 

[CupKake]

This is my first winter as a livery, the previous 7 have been spent as me as the YO. With that in mind I am very careful with turn out, and on occasion have kept in when very wet etc. My YO thought I was crazy! Told me not to worry about the fields, they were hers to fuss over, not mine and was perfectly confident they would recover when we rest the for the summer. I realise I am incredibly lucky yo be on such a yard, but still side with OP and see it as pointless to turn out in mud, personally my horses would gain nothing from it!

If managed correctly, (which I can see may be difficult if owners works full time etc) then their costs shouldn't go up too much.

 

[Jesstickle]

I'd be happy to turn out onto a yard or into the school. At the moment I would rather do that than use the field as it is a bog. Sadly my only options are the field or nothing and getting on a 5yo that has been stood in all day and hates its stable at the best of times is somewhat terrifying so out she goes. Again, if someone could pull her in at 2pm that would be fine but there are no services at my yard so she has to stay out until nearly six.

I wouldn't offer them the choice. Just tell them they can have half a day out or they can turn out all day onto the yard. I am normally the first to say I couldn't go somewhere without plenty of turnout but this winter has been bloody awful.

If I buy my own place a turnout yard for winter is probably number one on my list of things that I want. Or at least a good area of hardcore with a shelter so they can choose which they prefer and not trash everything!

 

[VikkiL]

My horse lives out 24/7 as he hates being stables, and gets very anxious and stressed, for me no turn out would be a deal breaker, Id move- would much prefer to turn out in mud than no turn out at all (he's just as likely to injure himself throwing himself around a stable as in the mud- as much as Id love to stable him!).

However would be quite happy with turning out in a school, or in the gravel area youve suggested.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I've been both poacher and gamekeeper, i.e. in the past have been a "livery", now have my own yard with a DIY livery in, so can understand both sides of the problem.

In the past when I've had my horse(s) on livery at someone else's place; at two separate places I've been there was no turnout, or very little turnout, in the winter months. At one place there was virtually NO turnout offered from November through to March, period. You liked it or you lumped it. My horse was on working livery, so it didn't pose too much of a problem TBH coz he was able to get all the exercise he needed, plus some - but I think if he had not been on WL it would have been a real headache TBH and I would have been at a loss to know what to do with him.

As a YO, my fields are, like everyone else's, getting thoroughly trashed - my (DIY) livery puts hers out during the daytime; plus my own two are out (in separate fields) & in by night. Both livery & myself are turning out in a fenced-off bit of the field and letting them trash that, and keeping other pasture for spring/when the weather gets better (ha ha bleddy ha).

Other owners in the area are doing this too, i.e. fencing off a bit of pasture for "trashing". Whilst appreciating that maybe not everyone has this option, it really IS the only option at the moment.

As a YO I offer year-round turnout, in 20 years of doing it (and this isn't the first wet winter we've ever had) - I've never had to restrict anyone for turnout; tho' appreciate that our fields here, whilst we're on good old Devon clay, are not the wettest in the neighbourhood by any means, so sympathise with any YO having to make difficult decisions.

This isn't an easy time for any of us.

 

[TeamChaser]

I only wish my YO would take your approach OP!


We're on high ground in the Cotswolds so drains pretty well but still like a bog as horses have been turned out on it all year round and NO grass whatsoever now. I just wouldn't turn mine out on it to be frank - they'll just slide about on mud, with nothing to eat, and feet constantly in wet mud. I hate feeding hay in field as it's an invitation for horses to fight in my opinion, and they're mostly all shod. Would far rather mine are in the dry with ad lib haylage and they are fine. They are exercised every day (and I don't mean 10 mins in the school or round the block they are worked for an hour and a half a day - fit for hunting/team chasing) They also get turn out in outdoor school together for good roll and play or some loose jumping. For those that think this unacceptable way to keep horses, I invite you to come and meet my boys! Relaxed horses, no stable vices, never grumpy - I routinely canter them riding and leading across the common and they're chilled and sane but both have a "spark" about them and can be little monkey's To me happiness is NOT standing in fetlock deep mud all day with nothing to eat!!

Because the fields are trashed, mine will have to move in the spring for summer grazing as I do insist they live out 24/7 from Mch/Apr - Sept/Oct .... depending on conditions ... so in fact my YO will lose income as there will be no available grazing for mine in the spring!

 

[wellsat]

I have my own land to do with as I please and I've stopped turning out because we've already had one batch of mud fever and I don't want Genio injuring himself.

I've turned down liveries who wanted to keep out 24/7 all year round because I'll end up with a field of mud, they'll complain the grazing is rubbish and leave.

The weather this year is exceptional, its not unreasonable to restrict turnout.

 

[ester]

Genrally liveries do not own their own land - therefore often have little or no concept of how hard it is to manage and maintain land, especially with last years bad weather.

My fear as a YO is being left with un-useable land, and constantly have to weigh up the short term happiness of my clients, versus the long term productivity of my grazing.

It's a toughie!

But oddly the only people I know that do have their own land are continuing to turn out and will also manage and maintain their own land (we graze and take a hay crop off of ours so not dock/ragwort infested . (this comment does come with the proviso that people's fields in different parts of the country are different!... though those I know are mostly on the somerset levels or flat lincolnshire ).

Our winter paddock number one got very wet so they moved at christmas, onto a paddock that hasn't been grazed since the hay crop was taken in July (so a good foot or so of grass cover to protect the ground).

and whoever said that in a dry stable with a haynet was better than horses than a muddy field I really cannot get my head round that as a concept!

fwiw though OP if I was at yours I'd likely walk to the other field to bring in, or would use the concrete yard.. but only if that was for a limited time (ie not until spring) only because my lad needs to be moving about as much as poss.

 

[TeamChaser]

and whoever said that in a dry stable with a haynet was better than horses than a muddy field I really cannot get my head round that as a concept!

QUOTE]


Fair enough - your opinion but I cannot get my head around how standing in a wet bog for hours on on end with nothing to eat is preferable to a dry stable and ad lib hay We'll have to agree to differ. Neither of mine exhibit any stressed behaviour and yet whilst hacking out I frequently see horses up to their knees in mud, stood looking miserable, chewing and wind sucking on fence posts and pacing relentlessly up and down a fence line! I know which ones I feel sorry for

 

[trickivicki]

I have 16 acres for 7 horses so I'm not overstocking by any stetch of the imagination. 7 horses are on 5 acres over winter because they come in at night and "they don't want to bring in from the other field in the dark".

Also, my liveries are contractally obliged not to overgraze or poach the fields so I'm also not ripping people off.

Its been really interesting reading peoples responses. It was my understanding that leaving horses in mud wasn't good for their legs. Essentially, I understand wholeheartedly that turn out is important and I am not advocating leaving the horses in their stables, I was just looking for another option from the mud! I don't turn my horse out because he doesn't want to go and when I did put him out he started with mud fever.

I'm bamboozled by some of my liveries responses. Apparently the dry yard is no good as the concrete may damage the horses legs .

it is your yard and land, be happy that you have made the right decision for your livieries and livelihood and stick to it!!

what you are offering is more than fair (although, as a sweetener if it wont break the bank you could offer a limited amount of free forage for horses during the day that would be (not) munching grass??).

my yard owner does not restrict turnout as such but sometimes they go in the field, sometimes they go on the hardcore area, sometimes go in the arena and sometimes don't go out- the result, happy non-mudfever horses with well adjusted horses that don't throw their toys out of their pram if they don't get exactly the same treatment everyday.

my horses is recovering from an operation in October, so YO has some fields she wont put him in (on a slippy bank etc) for his own welfare, if his mates went out on their and he couldn't, I certainly would not complain.

on the whole YOs have the best intentions but liveries seem to think you are all out to get us!!!

V x

(put some extra biccies in the tea room!!)

 

[Archina]

I think you are too nice !

Put a notice up to say the rain fall this winter has been unprecedented - you are doing your best to ensure you do not have to take the option of CLOSING the fields - and would appreciate if your liveries will WORK WITH YOU - to overcome the current situation - you REALISE this is inconvinent - and appreciate the additonal costs - but some yards close by HAVE CLOSED TURN OUT FOR THE FORESABLE...if any client wishes to discuss the matter then PLEASE BRING YOUR ISSUES TO ME DIRECTLY and I will be happy to discuss them further.

I appreciate your custom, but have only asked you to help me to help you, if you cannot then I appreciate that you will be looking for alternative livery - if you could let me know as soon as possible then I can contact the people on the waiting list.

thank you for all your help

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly this! I have had to restrict grazing this winter for my liveries. Last winter they where out from 8am - 4pm, this winter its 11am - 2pm. I have even taken the majority of my own horses of the land completely and am turning out in my school aswell as riding. Luckily the liveries I do have dont ride so never use the school.

My fields are so bad that I am going to have to get them ploughed later this year.