Fletching ride ends in tragedy (Sussex)

alsxx

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I'm likely in the minority here, but I really struggle to understand the 'bad press' these cycle events, and cyclists in general get. I understand there has been a tragic accident involving the loss of a much loved horse, and I am sorry for that and my condolences go to the owners, but an accident is just that and accidents do happen be it with cars involved, dogs, bikes etc etc.

I live in an area that typically has 2 or 3 cycle road events (be that time-trials, road races or sportive events) in any one month. We had a Sportive ride that was routed right past my yard on Sunday and down half my usual hacking route. It is beyond me (I mean with that with good intention, I'm not trying to 'get' at anyone so please do not misinterpret me) how anyone could fail to miss the signs that get put out for these events.....they are everywhere! Bright neon orange direction signs clearly stating 'sportive events' with arrows so you can see where the riders will be heading... After reading the article in H&H on Thursday I asked my hubby (who sometimes participates in these events) if the amount of signage they were putting up in the days leading up to Sunday was usual - he said it was.

So I'm really at a loss to understand how people can say they are not well signed - ok it's not a sign on every corner that says 'Attention Horse Riders - cycle event taking place here on X date' - but surely as vulnerable road users we should be using our common sense to ensure we don't put ourselves and our horses in a vulnerable situation - if I see signs out for a ride, I either go out very early or late to avoid it. And the internet is a fantastic tool, I've never not been able to find out which events are taking place when. Most signs I see have the name of the organiser on them.... so I check their website.

As horse riders we all know we get enough 'bad press' by some road users citing horses shouldn't be allowed on the road etc etc..... I look at cyclists and their road events in much the same way as I feel about horse riders, we all have a right to use our roads. As above, my husband is a road cyclist, and so is my father who has been participating in the sport since before I was born (so 30 odd years) – I guess I am fortunate to see it from both sides of the fence.

With regards the sportive events, my Husband once showed me the advice that they give out to cyclists for how to deal with horse riders - it was well thought out, accurate advise and to be honest, I was really impressed. It talked about blind spots for horses, how approaching on a bike is often silent and the horse will not necessarily see it until the last minute. It also talked about Horses having flight instincts if scared, and to approach with caution, calling out to riders so that they are aware of the approaching bike. So whilst there is all this bad press, it seems that the organisers, in my experience as a Horse rider and through knowing 2 people who participate in these events, are actually making quite a lot of effort.

One thought I have, if these events are so well signed in my local area, but others are saying they are not in other areas – perhaps the BHS or similar should be on the case to the local council or highways or Police? These events need to be notified and approved before taking place, so perhaps it is the responsibility of the local authorities to stipulate minimum signing/notification of these events. Just a thought, as I’m baffled as to how well signed these events are in my local area, but apparently not anywhere else….
 

s4sugar

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"Originally Posted by s4sugar
Why are cyclist allowed to use racing bikes with dropped handlebars on public roads as these bikes reduce the cyclists' ability to see far ahead.

That's total rubbish. I've ridden and raced dropped handlebarred bikes for 40 years and always been able to see ahead. There is no need whatsoever to ride head-down with a dropped handlebar bike.

In timetrials and roadraces, anyone seen by an official or reported by a fellow competitor to be riding "head-down" faces an immediate ban from competition.

The bloke who hit you would clearly have been riding head-down which is a senseless thing to do."


So tell that to the ones around here. Most have heads down and no awareness of surroundings nor the sense to indicate if they are about to change direction.
Most cyclists are considerate and many have bells which horses soon become accustomed to. Like everything else the idiots spoil things for the majority.
 

criso

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I live in an area that typically has 2 or 3 cycle road events (be that time-trials, road races or sportive events) in any one month. We had a Sportive ride that was routed right past my yard on Sunday and down half my usual hacking route. It is beyond me (I mean with that with good intention, I'm not trying to 'get' at anyone so please do not misinterpret me) how anyone could fail to miss the signs that get put out for these events.....they are everywhere! Bright neon orange direction signs clearly stating 'sportive events' with arrows so you can see where the riders will be heading... After reading the article in H&H on Thursday I asked my hubby (who sometimes participates in these events) if the amount of signage they were putting up in the days leading up to Sunday was usual - he said it was.


....
Most signs I see have the name of the organiser on them.... so I check their website.

.

Unfortunately ours don't sign as well as yours.

I don't know what sort of events they are (at least one a week in winter but more in the summer) sometimes the cyclists are wearing numbers, sometime not but when I was trying to find the organisation to ask them politely maybe to give their competitors advice about how to pass horses, I looked up and down the road for signs and found no signs. I walk 1/2 mile from the station to the yard and haven't seen any. I once passed some people on the road starting the riders (this was when I first moved to the area so didn't realise what they were) but never saw them again so I guess they have relocated the start to somewhere else.

I've not been able to find anything online either.

I think once something has a competitive element be it a competition or time trial, then the will to win can take over and consideration and safety is forgotten so I do think it is questionable whether this should take place on a public road.
 

AmyMay

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Unfortunately ours don't sign as well as yours.

This has been my experience too. Signs are virtually non existent - and even where one has been put up, usually there is no start time.

What a devastating thing to have happened - and regardless of the circumstances - I'm sure those involved feel just terrible.
 

jrp204

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Anyone can go out and buy a top of the range carbon bike and join in these rides, just like anyone can go out and buy a 'top of the range horse' and ride it on the road. The difference being a horse with an inexperienced rider will cause a hell of a lot more damage than a bike. The horse can bolt, not usual with a bike, the horse can spook, bikes tend not to. The horse has a mind of its own and can be ridden at speed by someone with little fitness, unlike a bike. Bikes & horses, both are at mercy of cars and lorries and regardless of precautions, accidents will happen.
Most cycle clubs will have a website or FB page where rides will be advertised, click the 'like' to get posts or emails, you will then forewarned if they fail to put up signs.
I'm very sorry OP for your accident and am in no way defending the cyclists but as said before the few will spoil it for the many. And this will always extend to both sports/pastimes.
 

jrp204

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Armas

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So sad to read this my condolences go out to the owners of the poor horse that had to be PTS.
I do hope that an investigation will take place and that the cyclist will be charged with some thing.
 

jrp204

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So sad to read this my condolences go out to the owners of the poor horse that had to be PTS.
I do hope that an investigation will take place and that the cyclist will be charged with some thing.

I doubt you could 'blame' any individual rider unless you could prove who was at fault. Your best bet would be to speak to BC, their clubs, if they are affiliated will have public liability insurance.
 

holeymoley

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I remember being out for a hack and my boy suddenly took off and spun round. As I managed to stop him I looked and there was a group of about 10 cyclists behind us . Before I got the chance to speak the group split into two groups and went round both sides of us at full speed. My boy just froze but he could've very easily kicked out , reared of ran in front of them. The thing is there's no way of reporting them . I also had to go through months of bike desensitising as well after that :mad:
 

vanessarimmer

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I can't run a car race or a horse race on the public highway so for the life of me I don't understand why people can run cycling races on the roads. Its obvious to me that its just plain dangerous!
 

Mudfukkle

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I am sick to death of cycle races on the roads, we have so many round here. I can't imagine how horrible it must have been for both Willow and her owners.

Agree totally with the above. We have them nearly every weekend where I am. It's becoming impossible to hack out at the weekend now without getting caught up in one. This weekend, there were no signs up, but suddenly loads of cyclists whizzing past my place in various pelatons, obviously in a race of some sort, and it went on all morning - so no riding for me :(

I'm not sure if they have to register their race with the local council? I may look into that one, as it's just becoming farcical now. Most cycling events are signed up, but never any times, so not sure when I can hack safely? I'm sure more accidents are likely if they continue to race round the lanes, it maybe one of them and not a horse next time?

RIP Willow
 

hollyandivy123

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the problem with the pantalon in cycle road racing is that they feel they have right of way compared to other road users they are focused on the best time for them. if you meet 30 coming up from behind and barging other users whether they are riders or walkers out the way are they any different than if 2 boy racers came barging past other road users?

i agree with others the ones we have round here do not sign the route or let people know when it is happening, if they could let people know when on the route they are meant to be coming past then that would help them and other people?
 
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Tickles

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This was obviously a tragic accident and my deepest sympathies to those involved.

Would add though that there doesn't seem to have been a clear fault of the cyclists here. Within the rules they are operating under they are allowed to ride on roads at speed.

And not all will be horsey.

Same as any other road users.

It is almost always up to horse riders to ensure that their animals are as (un-horse-likely) bomb-proof as possible if choosing to ride on roads or other shared areas.
 

ATrueClassAct

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Cyclists are one thing that does bother me when I'm driving. Especially when there is a herd of them all bunched together on a big commenting 40 mph road! Imagine if horse riders decided to go out in massive clans and not think to maybe even thank you someone who passes wide, not like their bikes are gonna spook at us driving past.

Absolutely tragic accident, heart goes out to family.
 

s4sugar

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There are two issues here.

The initial incident/accident causing the horse to be kicked and then the obstruction of the highways preventing help getting to the scene.
 

Copperpot

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We had one round here a few weekends ago. Hundreds of them! They did put up signs to be fair but its the ignorance of them. I got stuck behind a "pack" riding 3 abreast across the road at about 20mph in a 60. They made no effort to move into single file and after about 10 mins of this, no thanks when I eventually got past. They think the own the road.
 

Janah

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My boy always let me know when a cyclist was coming up behind, he wiggled his bum. If I had met a large group of cyclists at speed I dread to think what would have happened.

Condolences to the ladies that lost their horse in such awful circumstances.
 

Vanha12

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I have real issues with cyclists. Living where we do they love to come up and do their training round us but whiz part at crazy speeds and no warning. I often shout after them to please call next time - once a cyclist stopped when I did this and had an argument with me in the road about how that would be foolish as calling out behind a horse would scare it - I tried to explain not half as much as suddenly finding a lycra clad spider bearing down on it's shoulder but to no avail. Maybe I should write to a cycling mag - they definitely need re-educating and really don't believe the statement about them being advised on how to behave round horses. Very sad story - feel for the riders involved.
 

jrp204

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There are two issues here.

The initial incident/accident causing the horse to be kicked and then the obstruction of the highways preventing help getting to the scene.

I doubt they were deliberately obstructing the highway, they probably had no idea there had been an accident. On our roads, 1 cyclist would be classed as obstructing the highway the roads are that narrow. Race or not, cyclists are within their rights to use the road as much as horse riders are. Perhaps as far as the cyclists were concerned they were been hassled by an impatient car driver.
 

Armas

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There are two issues here.

The initial incident/accident causing the horse to be kicked and then the obstruction of the highways preventing help getting to the scene.

Do speed limits apply to cyclist I wonder if they were speeding ? Also I am curious what happens if a cyclist crosses over a solid white line to overtake is that an offence ? I believe its an offence if a cyclist jumps a red light.
There has to be a degree of responsibility after all they are road users, if it were my horse I would want my pound of flesh from the cyclist and more than likely would seek legal advice.
This could have turned out much much worse. Imagine if the child had been kicked or worse.
 

CobsGalore

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We have so many cyclists round us and regular road races. I try to avoid the roads when races are on, but sometimes they seem to happen with no warning!

Luckily my horse is fine with bikes, but the cyclists don't know that. Some come whizzing past at 30-40mph in big groups of 10 or so. Others come up behind my horse so close to him that they could easily be kicked.

It drives me round the bend, something needs to be done.

My heart goes out these women and their poor horse that had to be pts.
 

weebarney

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I was driving home from a show at the weekend with the trailer and 2 horses in an area with lots if bends and cyclists, I come up behind a group in single file so I sat behind for a while until I could pass on a straight and just as I'm pulling out to overtake they start to spread out across the road. just totally selfish behaviour . My brother is a road racer so I asked him why they would do that and he said quite defensively 'because we can' .
 

Suechoccy

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As horse riders we all know we get enough 'bad press' by some road users citing horses shouldn't be allowed on the road etc etc..... I look at cyclists and their road events in much the same way as I feel about horse riders, we all have a right to use our roads. As above, my husband is a road cyclist, and so is my father who has been participating in the sport since before I was born (so 30 odd years) – I guess I am fortunate to see it from both sides of the fence.

One thought I have, if these events are so well signed in my local area, but others are saying they are not in other areas – perhaps the BHS or similar should be on the case to the local council or highways or Police? These events need to be notified and approved before taking place, so perhaps it is the responsibility of the local authorities to stipulate minimum signing/notification of these events. Just a thought, as I’m baffled as to how well signed these events are in my local area, but apparently not anywhere else….

A sensible post.

Whether we are cyclists or horseriders or both, we are lucky in that Sheila Hardy is not only working for BHS but also for RTTC (cycling time trials) so she has influence in both areas. The annual RTTC handbook (and probably the British Cycling one too which covers road racing) contains a whole page of "How to cycle past horses/horseriders safely" which I believe was originated by Sheila.
 

Suechoccy

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Unfortunately ours don't sign as well as yours.

I don't know what sort of events they are (at least one a week in winter but more in the summer)

I've not been able to find anything online either.


Criso, these will be time trials, organised by a local cycling club. If you contact any of the local cycling clubs in your area, they will be able to tell you which club it is. Or if you tell me what road/area/day of the week (different clubs may use the same road on different days of the week) then I can look it up and let you know which cycling club and a contact point for them.
 

jrp204

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Criso, these will be time trials, organised by a local cycling club. If you contact any of the local cycling clubs in your area, they will be able to tell you which club it is. Or if you tell me what road/area/day of the week (different clubs may use the same road on different days of the week) then I can look it up and let you know which cycling club and a contact point for them.

If you go on the BC website, I put a link up earlier, it will give you ALL the TT's, sportives etc that are run by BC affiliated clubs.
 

Rose Folly

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Cyclists are never to blame. Didn't you know - they own the roads?

The majority are appalling around us. They have no manners, not only towards riders of horses but to car drivers and pedestrians. We are in an area of narrow, high-banked Somerset lanes, these guys whirl along at a ridiculous speed, rarely slow down, never call out or ring a bell - and some of them have the audacity to ride listening to their ipods. I had heard, but possibly it was just a wistful rumour, that all bikes HAD to be sold with bells??

and I ride a bike myself.......................
 

pip6

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Thought any kind of race on public highway that is open to public is ilegall. That is why advanced endurance races (first past post and vet wins) are called competative endurance rides, not endurance races. Think well thought out article to cycling magazine good idea, educate cyclists and race organisers.
 
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