Fletching ride ends in tragedy (Sussex)

[Pebble101]

So sorry to hear of your loss.

I have a problem as I live on a bridleway which is a steep tarmac drive and cannot avoid them. The speed they get up is incredible and I was once shouted at when 3 came down the hill side by side and fell off because they couldn't stop (at the time the surface was a bit gravelly). They told me I didn't own the road - silly really as I do own a percentage of it!! One also killed next doors chickens.

We are having our 4th race in a row this weekend. There are different coloured signs stuck everywhere - the organisers are fast enough to put them up but don't ever seem to take them down. Why is it acceptable to litter the country in this way? That's apart from the ride 3 weeks ago - they just painted arrows along the road instead. Thing is you never know what day, or what time you are likely to encounter them.

Individually I meet a lot of regulars and they are fine. Some of the weekenders come from London based cycling clubs (neighbour asked one of the people putting up signs) and don't seem to have a clue about horses. Neither are they particularly local for me to be able to find out!

I also agree that anything timed should not be allowed on public roads or bridleways.

My BIL and nephew are keen cyclists and enter these. BIL is more law abiding and will not ride through red lights etc. Nephew is the opposite, and funnily enough hates cyclists when he is driving a car.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Imagine if horse riders decided to go out in massive clans and not think to maybe even thank you someone who passes wide

Horse riders do go out in massive clans. It's called hunting. Hunts often block lanes with the horses and hounds. I'm not saying what the cyclists have done is acceptable in any way, in fact they sound like a bunch of ar$3holes but there are a lot of posts on here about cyclists acting like they own the roads. The way some of you are talking, you seem to think that horse riders own the roads. We don't. We all have equal right to be there, and we should all be courteous road users. There are bad horse riders, bad cyclists and bad motorists. Sympathies to the owner of the horse involved.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Why are cyclist allowed to use racing bikes with dropped handlebars on public roads as these bikes reduce the cyclists' ability to see far ahead.

The "racing bikes" you refer to are actually "road" bikes. Built for cycling on the road - at speed if required. Dropped handlebars provide a level of comfort for cyclists as they give a number of different riding positions and in the dropped position it allows you to ride and reduce your body surface area into oncoming winds.

I actually have a hybrid at the moment but am getting a road bike later this year, mainly for the improved position and for speed.

But then I'm a very courteous cyclist. I even pull over for motorists if I'm on a single track road going uphill and they want to pass. And if I come up behind a horse rider, I always shout out and ask if it's ok to pass. The number of horse riders who have looked down their noses at me as if I'm a turd on a skateboard, is far higher than those who have thanked me. It's time we all improved our manners.

 

[dieseldog]

Of course there is - they're called the police.

Good Luck with that - the worse cycle road race I have ever had to endure was one organised by the West Midlands Police which went from Wolverhampton to a seaside resort in Wales. The Polices behaviour was shocking.

Our yard is on a popular road cycle race track - it is a complete nightmare, and even when you are riding through a traffic calming chicane the cyclists will not slow down even when you are waving frantically at them asking them too.

 

[Bedlam]

Do horses not have the right of way on our roads still? I was under the impression that although riders tend to make as much effort to get out of the way as possible (trotting on to a gateway for example) that they actually have the rght of way over wheeled vehicles as the law has never been changed.

Or is this an urban myth.......?

 

[Achinghips]

Horse riders do go out in massive clans. It's called hunting. Hunts often block lanes with the horses and hounds. I'm not saying what the cyclists have done is acceptable in any way, in fact they sound like a bunch of ar$3holes but there are a lot of posts on here about cyclists acting like they own the roads. The way some of you are talking, you seem to think that horse riders own the roads. We don't. We all have equal right to be there, and we should all be courteous road users. There are bad horse riders, bad cyclists and bad motorists. Sympathies to the owner of the horse involved.

But massive clans of horses and hounds don't cause cycles to spook !

 

[Marydoll]

What a horrendous accident, i feel sick to my stomach at that scene.
Around my place cyclists are a real menace and will not move for anyone, they continue to ride 4-5 abreast full in the knowledge theyre taking up the whole of the single track road and dont move into single file for any traffic.
They come down the road towards us when we're in the truck, i slow right down but they dont, they just keep coming on at speed, some will shout abuse because i wont put myself off the road into the field to let them pass en masse at speed, i despise the lycra clad eejits around here, the leisure cyclists are fine and are generally very good but its time the police did something about these boy racers on bikes who feel theyre above the rules of the road .

 

[criso]

If you go on the BC website, I put a link up earlier, it will give you ALL the TT's, sportives etc that are run by BC affiliated clubs.

I went to all the links and only found one event at the end of August. Clearly there are more happening. Could it be smaller local groups not affiliated with a larger organisation.


Suechoccy

It's the Brickendon area. Seems to be every Sunday/ bank holidays and some Saturdays and early morning to mid afternoon. I've been riding in after 5/6pm in the heat so haven't seen anything that looks organised. Don't think there is much in the week but then I am less likely to be riding around that time.

I have a horse that doesn't react but incidents like this makes me realise how lucky I am.

 

[Mince Pie]

But massive clans of horses and hounds don't cause cycles to spook !

Nor do they spend the entire hunt on the road, rather they ride down it a short way or they cross it...

 

[holeymoley]

With regards to reporting to the police, I have nothing to tell me who the cyclist is or anything. All I would have is a brief description of him/her/they. Whereas If it was another vehicle as such I could get the registration plate, car make, etc Even if it was re occurring you could never be sure it's the same person as they could just change their clothing

 

[Lyle]

This sounds like a terrible accident. If the horse who kicked had missed, we most likely wouldn't have heard this storey. I send my sympathies to the mother and daughter involved as it was a clearly traumatic experience.

I can see both sides to the argument on this one, being a rider myself and having followed my OH around to road races for years now. My personal opinion is that horses and roads don't mix; for the obvious reasons of a large, unpredictable animal without any comprehension to the strife they can land us in if the decide to act on instincts! However, each to their own, but I would hope those using the roads have ensured that they and there horse can conduct themselves in a safe manner during most likely encountered scenarios.

I think people need to look a little from the point of view of these competitive cyclists. These aren't people going for a hoon on the roads to cause trouble just for kicks. They are participating in a sport, just as we do, and road racing requires the use of roads, and are entitle to use them just as horses are. While I can sympathise with the owner of the horse with the broken leg, I don't think it's fair to berate the cyclists for not stopping to help. Most likely 90% wouldn't have known what had happened, and the other 9% or so wouldn't have known how to help. Chances are too, the cyclists didn't see or know there where horses in front.

I'd suggest those who are likely to share the roads with cycling races should contact the local clubs for more information. They can get their hands on race dates, starting times and the type of event. For example anything handicapped is likely to have big bunches of cyclists starting at different times, where as a scratch race will have everyone starting at once.

I feel at the end of the day it is everyone's responsibility to keep our roads safe, and offer courtesy to everyone. I suppose I don't like the argument of 'but horses don't spook cyclists!" I think it hits the nail on the head as to why horses should use roads with discretion, if at all. They CAN and DO act unpredictably, we can never predict how they can react, and cause major trauma when they do.

 

[ATrueClassAct]

Re the hunting clans.
You can atleast hear the hunt for the small time they are on the road and they aren't travelling 20 plus mph.
Also being from a hunt yard and helping out at hunts we maybe spent 10 mins max on the road to hack to the nearest pub and we were always polite to drivers..but that's just my experience.

 

[Luci07]

So perhaps all should start to complain to the council and police when faced with inconsiderate cyclists. We are at my yard and I now know who to talk to at the council. It's also a real shame for the "proper" cyclists, who use the road correctly and dislike being seen in the same light. I was talking to a colleague who cycles a lot and said how I followed a number of cyclists going down Ranmore Hill (steep hill) near me and my speedometer was just under 40mph. He went a little white saying it had been totally irresponsible as these were racing bikes and would have been really vulnerable to rough roads, pot holes etc. glad I decided to stay well back when I realised what speed they were doing then.

 

[FoxTrotx]

I'm glad I'm not going nuts, I thought I was the only one getting increasingly frustrated at these lycra clad beings. There seem to be more and more 'road races' around by me and I've seen a wide range of behaviour by the cyclists taking part.

As a driver I am usually ignored, which I can fully deal with. I slowed down (not a great deal really as gap wasn't that small) to make it a little more comfortable for some cyclists coming the other way where the road narrowed slightly. Every single one of them (six or seven) gestured and verbally thanked me so obviously there are great examples of cyclists out there.

The one that really got me (on same day, in same area so I assume in same race) was coming up to some parked cars. Cars were on opposite side of road as was cyclist, there would have been room to squeeze by but not comfortably so he had to stop. I got a tirade of effing and blinding from cyclist as I slowed down going past parked cars but didn't stop as was my right of way. So as always two sides to every coin.

I don't ride my horse on the road for various reasons and stories like this make me glad I don't. I can't help wondering what would have happened if horse would have struck out and got a bike. Would be a very different story.

 

[Pebble101]

I think people need to look a little from the point of view of these competitive cyclists. These aren't people going for a hoon on the roads to cause trouble just for kicks. They are participating in a sport, just as we do, and road racing requires the use of roads, and are entitle to use them just as horses are.

I'd suggest those who are likely to share the roads with cycling races should contact the local clubs for more information. They can get their hands on race dates, starting times and the type of event. For example anything handicapped is likely to have big bunches of cyclists starting at different times, where as a scratch race will have everyone starting at once.

Would you say the same if it was cars 'racing' at around 30mph on country roads? Just because they are competitive, why don't they hire a track? Sorry but racing on the roads (or bridleways) should not be allowed. My brother in law has just come out from a stay in hospital with broken bones and a punctured lung which was the result of a crash when he hit a narrow pothole in one of these races.

I have had a look at one of the arrows up on my road this morning. Two of them don't have anything apart from an arrow. The most recent has an arrow with Sunday written on it. As it only went up on Monday I assume it is for this coming Sunday, but a look at SueChoccys website doesn't show anything on Sunday in this area so I wouldn't know who to contact. As I said previously some of the clubs aren't local.

And for those who say dont' ride on the roads I go back to my point that I live on a bridleway but I still have to put up with it - where else do you suggest I ride?
I do know a lot of the regulars and we are always nice to each other - I pull over where I can and they are considerate and slow down.

 

[Tinypony]

This sounds like a terrible accident. If the horse who kicked had missed, we most likely wouldn't have heard this storey. I send my sympathies to the mother and daughter involved as it was a clearly traumatic experience.

I can see both sides to the argument on this one, being a rider myself and having followed my OH around to road races for years now. My personal opinion is that horses and roads don't mix; for the obvious reasons of a large, unpredictable animal without any comprehension to the strife they can land us in if the decide to act on instincts! However, each to their own, but I would hope those using the roads have ensured that they and there horse can conduct themselves in a safe manner during most likely encountered scenarios.

I think people need to look a little from the point of view of these competitive cyclists. These aren't people going for a hoon on the roads to cause trouble just for kicks. They are participating in a sport, just as we do, and road racing requires the use of roads, and are entitle to use them just as horses are. While I can sympathise with the owner of the horse with the broken leg, I don't think it's fair to berate the cyclists for not stopping to help. Most likely 90% wouldn't have known what had happened, and the other 9% or so wouldn't have known how to help. Chances are too, the cyclists didn't see or know there where horses in front.

I'd suggest those who are likely to share the roads with cycling races should contact the local clubs for more information. They can get their hands on race dates, starting times and the type of event. For example anything handicapped is likely to have big bunches of cyclists starting at different times, where as a scratch race will have everyone starting at once.

I feel at the end of the day it is everyone's responsibility to keep our roads safe, and offer courtesy to everyone. I suppose I don't like the argument of 'but horses don't spook cyclists!" I think it hits the nail on the head as to why horses should use roads with discretion, if at all. They CAN and DO act unpredictably, we can never predict how they can react, and cause major trauma when they do.

Are you actually in Australia?

Anyway, don't you realise that most riders would be only too happy to avoid riding on roads at all? However for many the only alternative would be to remain enclosed in the arena. That's why I wonder if you're in Australia, because when I've been there I've certainly found it much easier to avoid riding on roads. When I was a kid we used to ride everywhere by nipping into a field, riding along the margin, then out again and into the next one, sadly access isn't that easy these days.

I think most riders, and other animal owners, do all they can to prepare their animals for the unexpected. However in life sometimes things don't go according to plan. There's no mistaking what's happening when you're faced with a couple of upset horses and riders struggling to deal with the situation. And yet, these horrible people just kept on riding towards them. They aren't blind, they would have had to be brain dead not to realise the implications of what they did.

I also wonder how we're supposed to know that we're likely to share the road with a race. It's not a regular thing where I am, but it has happened and from my yard I was completely clueless until I encountered it. I don't have a crystal ball sadly.

I think the cyclists who carried on racing by lacked basic human compassion. I hope if they ever find themselves in a similarly stressful and dangerous situation they cast their minds back to that day. Yes, road users need to extend courtesy to others, but in this case, the cyclists failed to do that. I can't understand why anyone would consider otherwise. My OH is a car mechanic and real petrol head for F sake, he's read this and is horrified at what they did. I hope these people realise that, even if they consider a horse unimportant enough that they'd ride by when it's leg was hanging off, they could have been faced with a dead or seriously injured person.

 

[castella]

I haven't read all the posts, but my experience of cyclists around my hacking area in herts both as a rider and car driver is they are totally ignorant and consider no one but themselves, they ride in huge groups of 20+ and ride across the whole of the road sometimes up to 4/5 abreast so you cannot get past in a car even on straight stretches, as a rider they give you no warning, they fly past even when they can clearly see a horse in in distress from them coming past so fast, they act very selfishly like no one else has any rights on the road but them.

Motorbike and scrambler bike riders however I have always found to be very very considerate.

 

[Gloi]

I once had a cyclist ride straight into the back of my pony. First thing I knew was when pony scuttered off and I looked round to see a cyclist on the floor. He had been riding head down and not seen us. Pony got off with a cut leg and the cyclist with a collection of gravel burns and broken glasses.

 

[TGM]

They are participating in a sport, just as we do, and road racing requires the use of roads, and are entitle to use them just as horses are.

There is a BIG, BIG difference! We are not allowed to race horses on the roads, just as we are not allowed to race cars on the road (for very valid reasons). The cyclists seem to be exploiting a loophole to be allowed to ride competitively at speed in large groups without it actually being called a race. (Although from your comment it is obvious that they consider it racing themselves!)

It is the pressure to achieve a certain time that makes these race cyclists dangerous as they won't give way to other road users in case it makes them less competitive. Horses aside, they are also a menace to motorists, walkers etc.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

ok, I am a rider, husband is a cyclist although he doesn't cycle in a club and the races he does are on either closed roads or main roads (A) roads where up here you wouldn't really be riding anyway. We're near the coast, lots of cyclists about. I am terribly sorry for this family and the trauma they were put through.

Husband and I were talking recently and at the risk of massively over generalising-many of these cyclists will know nothing about horses and I mean nothing. They will be from towns/cities and will have no clue. Husband was a complete townie before me and had no clue about horses and by his own admission, didn't give them much of a thought when on the road either driving or cycling. We're talking about people who have never even had a rabbit, let alone be familiar with large animals. I would hope that even these type of cyclists could recognise someone in distress but those who didn't, are likely those who wouldn't if the injured had been a pedestrian and are lacking in basic empathy.

I agree with the sentiment we should all be working together-education is the key, the clycling authority and the BHS/BRC should all be communicating.

Every year here we have a classic car time trials-they rocket around blind bends and summits and are complete *******. We complained and were told we should have been sent a letter but never have been. It's not just cyclists.

 

[Tinypony]

I don't really care what form of racing is going on, I don't think it should take place on roads that are open to other members of the public. When you couple that with the ignorance and lack of empathy of some sad members of society it's a recipe for disaster. Horses, cars, bikes, they shouldn't be racing with the unwary public in the middle of them.

 

[Marydoll]

I don't really care what form of racing is going on, I don't think it should take place on roads that are open to other members of the public. When you couple that with the ignorance and lack of empathy of some sad members of society it's a recipe for disaster. Horses, cars, bikes, they shouldn't be racing with the unwary public in the middle of them.

Agreed ^^^^^^ its a bleeding nightmare and its not just on the roads
we took ourselves to the local forest, to get off the roads, and on a forest track one day and heard lots of revving engines then a 4wd came into view who told us we were on the track of a race that was starting in 10 minutes not a sign up anywhere, and no map of what tracks the race was taking, we entered from the main public car park fgs and not a sign to say it was on anywhere.
The woods are used by all sorts, from riders, to walkers and cyclists

 

[majors]

What a horrible experience that will live with them for a long time. The trouble is the majority of cyclist seem to think they have more rights then anybody else be that horse, lorry or cars. On a horse i always get out of the way as quickly as I can so as not to hold people up (As many are working), but cyclists don't I find them to be a certain sort of person who thinks riding bike elevates them somehow. I have no trouble with motorbikes they are always great. We have a multiuser track near us which i have ridden on for 30 years (long before people decided to ride bikes for a hobby) we get abuse and dirty looks as if we shoudn't be there, I soon put them straight! We need to stand up, shout, complain write letters, don't worry about considering them as they do not consider us. Before someone says I am tarring them all, in my experience they are all the same if I am driving my lorry, car or riding!! (rant over)

 

[_GG_]

I don't really care what form of racing is going on, I don't think it should take place on roads that are open to other members of the public. When you couple that with the ignorance and lack of empathy of some sad members of society it's a recipe for disaster. Horses, cars, bikes, they shouldn't be racing with the unwary public in the middle of them.

It is illegal for cars, motorbikes and horses and runners unless the roads are closed. Does anyone know if it is legally allowed for cyclists to race on roads when they are not closed? If they can road race just by putting up signs and sending out letters, I think it is a complete joke.

There should be no form of competitive anything on public roads unless the roads are going to be closed.

The story on here a page or two back about a cyclist going into a horse because his head was down? Bad enough it was a horse....could have been a child walking with family

 

[Suechoccy]

Does anyone know if it is legally allowed for cyclists to race on roads when they are not closed?

Timetrials are not classified legally as races, so organisers just need to inform the local police not less than 6 weeks beforehand, and put up sufficient signage according to their local cycling district's risk assessment. (It tells you where to put up signs, marshals, etc). Timetrials is where the riders go off at one-minute intervals.

Roadraces run under British Cycling or LeagueofVeteranRacingCyclist rules are classified as races legally, and are also allowed on public roads, subject to various conditions - police notification by a certain time limit, signage, marshals, other officials, plus lead cars in front of the leading riders with flashing lights/sign, plus other similarly-attired cars to go in front of riders when/if the group splits up, plus a sweep-up vehicle at the back to pick up retirees.

Sportives are group rides, not races, even though many riders taking part treat them as races. There is no overall body in charge of sportive organisation - you or I could organise one. Whatever health and safety measures are put in are down to the requirements of the sportive organiser's insurance.

Pebbles and anyone else - if you let me know what roads you want to know about cycling events on, I can find out for you. I'm just doing Brickendon for Crisos.

 

[mcnaughty]

Surely permissions need to be sought before holding a road race? If this is the case - it should be - then as part of that permission, adequate notice, signage and adverts should be placed to ensure other road users are aware of the race date/time etc

 

[pip6]

I don't really care what form of racing is going on, I don't think it should take place on roads that are open to other members of the public. When you couple that with the ignorance and lack of empathy of some sad members of society it's a recipe for disaster. Horses, cars, bikes, they shouldn't be racing with the unwary public in the middle of them.

Ever heard of an accident in an endurance race where any member of the public (that is on foot, cycling or driving a form of motorised vehicle) has been involved? Answer is no. That is because, even when 'racing', which btw doesn't even mean you have to be in a race, you might be having to go quick in order to make the time on a graded ride, manners & courtesey are written into the rules. Failure e.g. to slow down when passing a walker, to adhere to the rules results in elimination.

The vast majority of problems are caused by non-members doing a pleasure ride class (where the min speed is only 8kph). I could say it's a shame you do have to write it into the rules, but you will always get the odd ignorant person in any sport, so I'd rather it was written in than left to peoples judgement, which some are very lacking of the good sort.

That there isn't a single governing body to discuss this with is a shame & will really hamper reaching all competitors. Maybe it needs to be written into their rules that they must ask before passing slower road users & obey the law of the road (just to point out the blatently obvious, being on a bike does not exclude them from this). Failure to do so will be elimination. The only way to enforce the rule is to take their 'win' or accredited time away. That is all they will care about or they wouldn't have broken the rules in the first place.

I used to live near Maidenhead, & there were regular time trials either along the A4 (pain as mainly single carriageway) & the dual CW from the M4 to M40, were it worked really well. It was easy to overtake them, no large groups, excellent visibility, well signed. It can work, but they have to be realistic about suitable venues.

 

[Suechoccy]

Answer for Crisos on Brickendon:

"North Road CC time trial is Tuesday evenings (through to end August). Lots of riders.Other events are on the LNDC site here:
http://www.lndc.org.uk/

That's timetrials only, not road races or sportives.

 

[hollyandivy123]

the trouble to us the other road users..............................there is not much difference between a time trail and a race.
it is a herd of Lycra people who are focused on the road ahead and their destination. i have met a herd of 20 once down a single track who refused to go into a single file so we could all pass each other, i was in a lorry that and they expected to ride 3-4 abreast across the road. if i had been in a car coming round the corner going faster than in the lorry i would have played skittles. they were so bunched up that some of the back ended up crashing into the ones in front. now if cars had been traveling that close and fast that would be undue care and attention.

i think the most of us as saying that everyone on the road should respect everyone else.

imagine if there was a thread about 3 horse riders riding 3 abreast down the road...........................most people would be up in arms...............................

 

[Mike007]

the trouble to us the other road users..............................there is not much difference between a time trail and a race.
it is a herd of Lycra people who are focused on the road ahead and their destination. i have met a herd of 20 once down a single track who refused to go into a single file so we could all pass each other, i was in a lorry that and they expected to ride 3-4 abreast across the road. if i had been in a car coming round the corner going faster than in the lorry i would have played skittles. they were so bunched up that some of the back ended up crashing into the ones in front. now if cars had been traveling that close and fast that would be undue care and attention.

i think the most of us as saying that everyone on the road should respect everyone else.

imagine if there was a thread about 3 horse riders riding 3 abreast down the road...........................most people would be up in arms...............................

Dont you meen 3 horse riders abreast ,galloping flat out down the road.That is far more a comparable situation.