Follow on thread: post good un-shod/barefoot pics please

[YasandCrystal]

I hope they come on the thread interested to learn more


Found this pic from last summer, taken right after a trim. Not sure why the hoove uppers above the farriers smooth off, are a different colour to now, unless they dry out more resulting in the change in colour

Your horse has fab feet

 

[CBFan]

Abitodd... I'm green with Envy! Those feet look GORGEOUS!

These are my boys feet - Posted the other day as they are due for a trim this coming week but there isn't a great deal to take off, so we're leaving it for 6 weeks. I've actually rolled his fronts a little since these pics (which he seems to need every few weeks) and I realise these aren't perfect feet - he's still telling me so occasionally! I'm currently awaiting the results of a hay analysis and diet plan to come through, so hopefully that may give me some answers, but if anyone wants to tell me how they think they can be improved, please feel free to explain! I'm still learning!

NB these feet belong to a 17hh 4.5 year old CB Gelding, who has never been shod.. he is schooled twice a week for about 45 minutes on Sand and rubber and then hacked twice on a variety of terrain for up to an hour and a half... often needing boots on for one of those hacks ... still not achieving consistent heel first landing

LF:

LH

RH
(Stood odly for this one - Sorry!)

RF

ETS... Sorry about the pooey feet! and He had horrendous flare on the outside of the hinds which we have been dealing with over the last 7 months...

 

[forestfantasy]

Sorry to invade again!
For anyone who wanted updates on Fantas feet here you go!
These are from Sunday just gone so were coming up for 3 1/2 months of no shoes - still a long way to go!

OF

NF

 

[JessandCharlie]

Not perfect, but I think these pictures show the beginnings of good barefeet They are old pictures, so will try and take some up to date ones, but I like how they show a drastic change in the new horn being grown

5yo TB, I think you can all guess the event line that marks removal of shoes Is sound on all surfaces now other than hard ground with large, loose stones on top, but I'll forgive him for that

J&C

 

[JessandCharlie]

ETA: So interesting to look back at those ^^ actually, his bars are far meatier now, as are the bulbs of his heels. Will definitely get more pictures

J&C

 

[forestfantasy]

Amazing pics J & C!

 

[Rosehip]

Oh wow J&C, they are amazing pics! That event line is so marked, I cant wait for updated piccys!
FF, the new pics do show a change in the right direction Its going to be a long, wonky road with her though isnt it! Is Fanta sound that the mo? It never fails to amaze me how feet work!! x

 

[abitodd]

Thanks CBfan. For the record here is a front foot from when this horse was 4.5 years and only 16.2!

Back to today 4years on.He has grown a hand,but his feet have shrunk!

It has not been easy and there have been many times when he was not happy over all surfaces. This was partly due to the fact he was still growing and I was expecting too much but mainly due to weak stifles,particularly the right stifle.
This is NOT a stoic horse and he can get very negative if he has a tiny 'hurty'. When his stifle troubles him,he takes more weight on the forehand and becomes sensitive to everything including stones.I percieved this as a problem with his feet,tried boots and even toyed with the idea of shoes......but farrier would not let me and said there was nothing wrong with the hooves!
For me the key has been patience,both for the feet to come right and the rest of his body to come right. Big horses like warmbloods and CBs take ages to mature,ages to get fit and that includes the feet.
Dietry tweaks may also have helped. I have removed Alfalfa from his diet and sugar beet(even the unmollassed stuff did not suit him.) He now eats rough pasture,meadow hay and Pure Easy with a bit of Pure Balance.
This recipe seems to be working for him.
If highly bred warmbloods can do it,so can Cleveland Bays!

 

[Oberon]

Not perfect, but I think these pictures show the beginnings of good barefeet They are old pictures, so will try and take some up to date ones, but I like how they show a drastic change in the new horn being grown

5yo TB, I think you can all guess the event line that marks removal of shoes Is sound on all surfaces now other than hard ground with large, loose stones on top, but I'll forgive him for that

J&C

OOh. It's YOU!

I remember those amazing photos and often wanted to refer back to them - but couldn't remember who's they were or where I'd seen them.

Truly amazing pics. I'm going to save them to my Photobucket and use them in the future

I'd LOVE to see updated pics.

 

[nikkimariet]

Really enjoying seeing everyone's pics and reading the background info - learning a lot

 

[JessandCharlie]

Glad you enjoyed like nmt, I'm loving looking through these! Some brilliantly strong, capable looking feet to aspire to

Will definitely get more photos ASAP I'll even wash them off really well first because I'm nice like that

J&C

 

[abitodd]

Will definitely get more photos ASAP I'll even wash them off really well first because I'm nice like that

J&C

Yes,point taken!
In my defense,I did mention that the horse who owns the muddy feet is very sensitive. He has a huge problem with hosepipes and buckets of water(although he will wade through rivers) Washing his feet was not worth the risk to him,me,the cars and the camera!

 

[CBFan]

Thank you for the reasurance abitodd! That really means a lot and rings so familiar with my boy... in fact he's going for xrays of his stifles on Monday - hopefully just to put my mind at rest but I know he definately has a weakness there. We had a lesson on Saturday which got us moving in a much more positive manner so if we can keep that up I'm hoping his feet and action will improve I'm sure his feet are already smaller than they were this time last year too

The diet is still in the trial stages... I've made some pretty small but significant changes in the last year - he has never been on mixes or high sugar feeds but there are things we have changed and mada difference all the same - dropped alfa-alfa products for graze-on dropped graze on added magnesim, biotin and brewers yeast.. have just had frage analysed so we'll see what that shows up

 

[JessandCharlie]

! Definitely not aimed at anyone! Sorry, it did sound like I was hinting, I wasn't! Promise! in fact, I was more referring to the fact that his feet were filthy in my set of pics

Sorry, it really did sound awful in retrospect

J&C

PS your horse's feet are incredible! I did have yours in mind when I said I had some pictures of great feet to aspire to

 

[abitodd]

Thank you for the reasurance abitodd! That really means a lot and rings so familiar with my boy... in fact he's going for xrays of his stifles on Monday - hopefully just to put my mind at rest but I know he definately has a weakness there. We had a lesson on Saturday which got us moving in a much more positive manner so if we can keep that up I'm hoping his feet and action will improve I'm sure his feet are already smaller than they were this time last year too

The diet is still in the trial stages... I've made some pretty small but significant changes in the last year - he has never been on mixes or high sugar feeds but there are things we have changed and mada difference all the same - dropped alfa-alfa products for graze-on dropped graze on added magnesim, biotin and brewers yeast.. have just had frage analysed so we'll see what that shows up

It may be tough trying to figure it all out,but it's a wonderful learning curve with a host of 'right' answers,but only you can find the right one for your boy.And I think that the horse's way of going is very significant. Once they start working through with more weight behind and a lifted back,they seem to glide over any surface.
Will be interested to hear what the stifle X-rays show.Do keep us posted.

! Definitely not aimed at anyone! Sorry, it did sound like I was hinting, I wasn't! Promise! in fact, I was more referring to the fact that his feet were filthy in my set of pics

Sorry, it really did sound awful in retrospect

J&C

PS your horse's feet are incredible! I did have yours in mind when I said I had some pictures of great feet to aspire to

No offence taken. Thought it was funny.

 

[forestfantasy]

Oh wow J&C, they are amazing pics! That event line is so marked, I cant wait for updated piccys!
FF, the new pics do show a change in the right direction Its going to be a long, wonky road with her though isnt it! Is Fanta sound that the mo? It never fails to amaze me how feet work!! x

Yes, amazingly she has been sound throughout this whole process - apart from being a little footy on stones in the early stages.
It does amaze me to look at how wonky they are!
I'm just hoping she know what shes doing!

 

[laura_nash]

These are my boys front feet, taken very recently (apologies for the poor side view, I took them to get some boot advice so I was focussed on the sole's). I'm bringing him back into work after 6 months off (due to my pregnancy) and I'm pleased with how they are doing considering he has been doing no work and doesn't have ideal living conditions (standard livery with 6hrs turnout a day in the winter). He is a little footy on stony paths so is back to wearing boots in front out hacking, though that isn't easy because his feet are 2cm wider than long and he dishes! Interestingly he always had RF smaller than LF (commented on by farrier when I bought him and noticeable when I measured for boots when the shoes first came off). I measured hime again a couple of weeks ago and they are now both the same size.

http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww69/laura_Nash/Triggers hooves/

He's been barefoot two years, trimmed by my farrier.

 

[CBFan]

Just had the results of my Forage analysis through - Shows very high Calcium and Chloride and high sodium, manganese and Iodine with low Magnesium, Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Cobalt,

Just waiting for a diet plan now Exciting times

 

[JessandCharlie]

This one is interesting. If you look about halfway down, you can see (I hope) a section of wall that almost looks like it’s not as well connected as the wall above and below it. I have no idea if this is just coincidence or not, but that would correspond with the time that I had to temporarily change his feed to a higher starch alternative for a little while, as my feed order was delayed

I love how this one ^^ shows how that massive event line is growing out now

I’m aware that his heel should probably be a little lower than they are, and intend to sort that out slowly, as his feet strengthen further, to have the frogs loading a little more. Frogs are shedding, and although you can’t really see in pics, the frog below the loose bits is looking really nice I assume it’s because he’s growing a much better frog, and getting rid of the ‘old’ frog he had in shoes.

Interesting that he’s also a (wannabe) dressage horse with higher than textbook heels. He’s not schooling to any great level though – wonder if it’s to do with the volume of work on a surface? He doesn’t hack as much as I’d like atm (will when days are a bit longer) so most of his work is in the school. I’m sure I read that often feral horses in very sandy areas have more concave feet, with higher heels than those on harder, rockier ground, which would make sense.

Any thoughts/observations etc. more than welcome

J&C

 

[JessandCharlie]

! They're huge sorry!

 

[forestfantasy]

Bumping this back up! It keeps disappearing!
really interesting pics J&C

 

[Oberon]

This one is interesting. If you look about halfway down, you can see (I hope) a section of wall that almost looks like it’s not as well connected as the wall above and below it. I have no idea if this is just coincidence or not, but that would correspond with the time that I had to temporarily change his feed to a higher starch alternative for a little while, as my feed order was delayed

It looks like your horse is very sensitive to feed. There is still some flaring and the WL is still stretched - so I's keep an eye on that. My old boy's WL tightened up after two weeks of feeding balanced minerals, so the hooves are that dynamic.

I’m aware that his heel should probably be a little lower than they are, and intend to sort that out slowly, as his feet strengthen further, to have the frogs loading a little more. Frogs are shedding, and although you can’t really see in pics, the frog below the loose bits is looking really nice I assume it’s because he’s growing a much better frog, and getting rid of the ‘old’ frog he had in shoes.

Interesting that he’s also a (wannabe) dressage horse with higher than textbook heels. He’s not schooling to any great level though – wonder if it’s to do with the volume of work on a surface? He doesn’t hack as much as I’d like atm (will when days are a bit longer) so most of his work is in the school. I’m sure I read that often feral horses in very sandy areas have more concave feet, with higher heels than those on harder, rockier ground, which would make sense.

Any thoughts/observations etc. more than welcome

J&C

He still looks a bit weak at the back of the foot. The sulcus is still way too deep - I wonder if it's sensitive to a hoof pick back there? And there is evidence of excess wear to the toe in some pics - which indicates a toe-first landing and a heel that is not comfy enough to bear weight yet.

So if he is still weak and tender in the back of the hoof - then the higher heel is a good idea in order to protect him for now. If he was dumped onto his heel at the moment, he'd just start walking on his toes full-time and you'd never get anywhere.

It is true that horses from deserts have a higher concavity than those from firm terrain. As the horse fully loads the foot, he will compress the sole to obtain ground contact. If he is on hard ground, he will want less space to compress onto.

But in a domestic horse this should equate to the ground that he lives AND works in. One hour of work won't make the difference in concavity to a horse - it's the other 23 hours that do.

You will find that diet is also a large factor in concavity, as it's related to depth of sole and positioning of P3 in the hoof capsule.

My old boy has concavity and looked perfect in Dec 2009, Then in Jan, he had vaccines and that kicked off all kinds of problems....I started feeding him alfalfa pellets and a forage replacer diet in accordance with the vet's advice.

He never regained concavity until I overhauled the diet again in 2011 - I ditched the alfalfa and balanced minerals and then the concavity came back...

Turns out the alfalfa was too high in calcium for my grazing and it was just messing up everything minerals wise

I live and learn

 

[JessandCharlie]

Hi Oberon

I was thinking that I'd begin to (verrry slowly) lower the heels, to load the frog so they'd begin to strengthen further? I figured if I don't, they'll continue to stay as they are I won't be dumping the heels of course, it would be done very gradually so he stays comfortable he is landing heel first, btw, so I don't think he's sore. I'm pretty scrupulous about checking for thrush, and even a pretty hefty amount of prodding with a hoof pick doesn't cause a reaction, if I suspect any thrush it's treated ASAP, but I don't atm

Forage analysis would be great, but he's turned out on such a vast area, I have a feeling it would take me forever, so I've ordered some pro hoof instead. He's fed the lowest starch and sugar diet I can possibly find (that keeps weight on him) and I think you can see in the pics that the hoof is growing a bit tighter with each diet change, as I'm working out what works for him

He's turned out on pretty soft ground too, which doesn't help him wear his feet much. Bring on summer when I can hack properly!

J&C

 

[JessandCharlie]

ETA: should have made it clear that pro pod hasn't arrived yet, but I will post more pics in a few weeks when it's had a chance to work, and report back

J&C

 

[lazybee]

I've been reading this post for a few days and have been thinking........ One thing to bare in mind here. It has been mentioned a few times in this thread that the horse will grow the hoof he needs etc, also there's a quote about if you trim something off and it grows back, then horse needed it it there.
This isn't necessarily true when you think how many runners, walkers etc need Orthotic insoles in their boots or running shoes to prevent soft tissue damage and problems later in life. I currently have 4 out of 6 shoeless. There's no way the other 2 could cope without shoes (fronts only). Conformation has to be considered prior to making any choices that could cause future problems.

 

[cptrayes]

I've been reading this post for a few days and have been thinking........ One thing to bare in mind here. It has been mentioned a few times in this thread that the horse will grow the hoof he needs etc, also there's a quote about if you trim something off and it grows back, then horse needed it it there.
This isn't necessarily true when you think how many runners, walkers etc need Orthotic insoles in their boots or running shoes to prevent soft tissue damage and problems later in life. I currently have 4 out of 6 shoeless. There's no way the other 2 could cope without shoes (fronts only). Conformation has to be considered prior to making any choices that could cause future problems.

The whole point is that humans need inserts because they can't grow their own. The reason horses grow peculiar shaped feet is exactly the same reason as why athletes need inserts.

If your horses are shod on front to keep their feet "looking" right when their legs/body aren't straight then they are causing the very stresses and strains that will create the soft tissue damage that human athletes use inserts to prevent.

 

[LucyPriory]

Personally the human shoe inserts analogy doesn't work for me. Having had them inflicted on me and suffered immense pain in knees and hips I realised that my feet were doing what they needed to in order to keep my hips and knees in good order.

I get on best in plimsols......... completely flat and only serve to protect my feet from glass and dog mess.

I've seen x-rays of a horse's knees where the horse was shod to be straight and the knees were in deep trouble as a result with the joint heavily compressed on one side and wide open on the other.

I agree with CPTrayes and have found time and time again that the horse is perfectly capable of growing the foot she needs for the body she has if only we manage the horse properly. The tragedy is so few people seem to realise this.

 

[lazybee]

The whole point is that humans need inserts because they can't grow their own. The reason horses grow peculiar shaped feet is exactly the same reason as why athletes need inserts.

If your horses are shod on front to keep their feet "looking" right when their legs/body aren't straight then they are causing the very stresses and strains that will create the soft tissue damage that human athletes use inserts to prevent.

That seems be true in most cases I agree as observed with most of my own horses I just don't like to generalise. There are always some exceptions. For example, one of mine is pigeon toed and will rapidly wear out the inside edges to such a point as to make himself lame. When shod he transfers his weight more evenly through his joints and is much more balanced; this has nothing to do with simply trying to make it look right. This is demonstrated perfectly well when he's trotting on the tarmac; his footfalls are spookily silent and you'd never believe he had metal shoes on; more like carpet slippers. So summing up he can't be relied upon to grow his own as per his needs.

 

[cptrayes]

That seems be true in most cases I agree as observed with most of my own horses I just don't like to generalise. There are always some exceptions. For example, one of mine is pigeon toed and will rapidly wear out the inside edges to such a point as to make himself lame. When shod he transfers his weight more evenly through his joints and is much more balanced; this has nothing to do with simply trying to make it look right. This is demonstrated perfectly well when he's trotting on the tarmac; his footfalls are spookily silent and you'd never believe he had metal shoes on; more like carpet slippers. So summing up he can't be relied upon to grow his own as per his needs.

We'll have to agree to differ. I think he is, but perhaps you did not leave him long enough to find out. If left long enough, the areas subject to excessive wear grow much thicker horn to prevent imbalance that is wrong for the foot. I can understand why you may not have wanted to back off the work for up to a year to wait for this to happen, but it isn't to say that he cannot manage barefoot. I doubt very much, if you had a pressure analysis of his joints, that shoeing him is loading his joints more evenly than they would load if he had been allowed to develop the right foot for his wonky joints, but then that's why I'm called a barefoot evangelist


My barefoot boys make a noise like firecrackers going off when they trot on a hard flat surface. I'd say your horse's soft footfalls with metal shoes on may even indicate that he is putting his feet down softly to avoid concussion on the joints. It is not normal for a shod foot to make as much noise as if the horse was wearing slippers, it would worry me.

 

[lazybee]

We'll have to agree to differ. I think he is, but perhaps you did not leave him long enough to find out. If left long enough, the areas subject to excessive wear grow much thicker horn to prevent imbalance that is wrong for the foot. I can understand why you may not have wanted to back off the work for up to a year to wait for this to happen, but it isn't to say that he cannot manage barefoot. I doubt very much, if you had a pressure analysis of his joints, that shoeing him is loading his joints more evenly than they would load if he had been allowed to develop the right foot for his wonky joints, but then that's why I'm called a barefoot evangelist


My barefoot boys make a noise like firecrackers going off when they trot on a hard flat surface. I'd say your horse's soft footfalls with metal shoes on may even indicate that he is putting his feet down softly to avoid concussion on the joints. It is not normal for a shod foot to make as much noise as if the horse was wearing slippers, it would worry me.

I see myself more as a barefoot realist