Follow up of numnah slipping under saddle - saddle fit pics :(

http://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/

I think you should contact them and make enquiries about how you should go about resolving your issue.

I bought my saddles second hand from the saddlers who were "master saddlers" and also encountered problems but I never pursued anything as it happened so long after they were fitted. However, it has left a rather nasty taste in my mouth when the back man and also a back lady pointed out the damage they had done. There are very few people now that I would trust with saddling my baby. One lives very far away from me and I don't mind paying her the fuel money or time for coming to fit my saddles. A good saddle that fits perfectly is priceless.

I know people who have been lucky using the same saddle on all of their horses and I think those people are few and far between.

Also, I do think its very important that owners self-educate on what a good fit is. In fact I believe this for all aspects of the horse care we are responsible for. It's easy these days with so much info at our fingertips... Literally! :D
 
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Luci07 said:
Is there such a thing as a registration for saddle fitters? Just as a general view...if someone says they are a master saddler and you don't know them, then I would ring and check with the worshipful society of master saddlers. I do know someone years ago who said they were a MS but in fact were not.

Please update us ...I find it very interesting.
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Yes the saddle fitting qualification is different to that of a Master Saddler.

A master saddler is not qualified to fit saddles - they are qualified to make saddles (very basic description)
A Saddle fitter is just that - qualified to fit saddles.

A saddle fitter is not automatically a Master Saddler and vice versa.

You can check who is qualified to do what on the SMS website and I believe you can contact the SMS if you are having bother with anyone qulaified.
 
I havent read any of the other posts but did the saddler know you were going to be putting a half pad underneath? If so then the saddle should of been fitted with your half pad in mind.
 
Well, im still in a predicament. I need someone to tell me what to do!! saddle fitter (2&3) told me to fight for it and demand a full refund, and if not try and go for 10% of the refund taken off as the saddle is brand new, has been ridden in for 5 weeks and it clearly isnt suitable. saddle fitter (2&3) wrote an email to me basically summing up yesterday, including pics of the saddle chalked on his back. The only problem is, i've had problems with my horse bending left for a long long time in many different saddle, saddle fitter (1) was aware of this as I told her, but she never fitted the saddle around this issue - he has lack of muscle on right side of wither significantly compared to left side. saddle fitter (2&3) basically wrote the email explaining that he couldnt bend left because of the saddle loading too much on the right, which yes, is very correct but I originally went to them saying about my saddlecloth issue and saddle tipping forward. Now I have no idea what to do?! saddle fitter (2&3) did say that saddler fitter (1) has every right to ask for some % to be taken off as it is no longer a new saddle and she can not sell it as new, which is understandable, but she made the mistake in the first place which is not my problem. Gahhhh!!
 
rachaelstar said:
Well, im still in a predicament. I need someone to tell me what to do!! saddle fitter (2&3) told me to fight for it and demand a full refund, and if not try and go for 10% of the refund taken off as the saddle is brand new, has been ridden in for 5 weeks and it clearly isnt suitable. saddle fitter (2&3) wrote an email to me basically summing up yesterday, including pics of the saddle chalked on his back. The only problem is, i've had problems with my horse bending left for a long long time in many different saddle, saddle fitter (1) was aware of this as I told her, but she never fitted the saddle around this issue - he has lack of muscle on right side of wither significantly compared to left side. saddle fitter (2&3) basically wrote the email explaining that he couldnt bend left because of the saddle loading too much on the right, which yes, is very correct but I originally went to them saying about my saddlecloth issue and saddle tipping forward. Now I have no idea what to do?! saddle fitter (2&3) did say that saddler fitter (1) has every right to ask for some % to be taken off as it is no longer a new saddle and she can not sell it as new, which is understandable, but she made the mistake in the first place which is not my problem. Gahhhh!!
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Exactly, it isn't your problem and now you are out of pocket and unable to ride your horse. It should be that the company take on their mistakes.

Unless you want to contact your vet and have them organise a qualified physio to do a full assessment and then send the report to the saddle company, I would accept the 10% and be done with it. Chalk it up to experience.
 
saddler has only offered 20% at the moment though. I don't suppose you get any legal advice through any policies just so that you can back yourself up RS? But I would be tempted to send a recorded letter with your request and reasons why for a full refund. Surely that mostly has to be on the basis that it is common knowledge that bates have a curvy tree and you don't have a curvy backed pony!
 
I think you need to talk to trading standards and open a case. Then contact her and set out why you want a full refund also ensuring you quote the case number and advise that all further contact must be in writing or email so that trading standards are able to add a copy to their case file. In your letter state that in you feel she has not undertaken the fitting with "reasonable care and skill" and that as a consequence the saddle has been rendered "unfit for purpose" in this case. Also include any subsequent second opinions at this point and detail the issues that mean she has not acted with "reasonable care and skill". Although it was not an equine case I have been successful using this approach.

In the meantime if you are stuck with this saddle for riding as others have already said you could try different girths, but also an old fashioned type leather non-elasticated chest girth might help keep things more stable.
 
I agree with cyberhorse, it's a lot of stress but I wouldn't let the saddler get away with it tbh. Go for it Rachaelstar, you deserve better than to be intimidated. I feel so sorry for you. Big hugs and be brave!
 
More pics for anyone thats interested, what do you think of these?

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This one concerns me the most, very over to the right side!
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chalks from yesterday
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eta - in process of writing an email.
 
OP only you can decide how much time and effort you want to put into getting c.£200 back or whether your time is better spend finding a saddle that does fit.
It is not a new saddle, if I buy a dress from Next, wear it once then take it back, yes they'll probably give me a refund (only vouchers to spend in their shop most likely) but they certainly wouldn't sell the dress on to someone else as new - I can see both sides.
It isn't fair for you to loose money but sadly life is often not fair.
 
Rachaelstar... Awful. Omg how thin is that panel????!!! Is that all that is touching his body either side of his spine??? And it's completely over his shoulderblades? He works in that? He's an honest horse, good god my boy would have had me in a hedge if I had that saddle on. He obviously moves as you can work him in it.... Sort of.

Who is this Sadler?
 
tallyho! said:
Rachaelstar... Awful. Omg how thin is that panel????!!! Is that all that is touching his body either side of his spine??? And it's completely over his shoulderblades? He works in that? He's an honest horse, good god my boy would have had me in a hedge if I had that saddle on. He obviously moves as you can work him in it.... Sort of.

Who is this Sadler?
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When I explained this to saddle fitter (1) she said that bates saddles dont work with the chalk idea???

Do you mean the middle bit of the panel which are thin? Yes, he is very very very honest, too honest! You could put a bed of nails on his back and he'd still work for you :( I have videos of him working underneath it but I have no idea how to get them onto the comp. I will pm you tallyho x
 
wallykissmas said:
Ah ok, do they chalk the horse then out the saddle on or the saddle then place and ride. Have you thought about going via beta if the saddler is part of a shop registered with beta ?
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They did both ways, chalk on horse onto saddle, then wiped off clean, then chalk on saddle onto horse. There are so many different things to look at but havent thought of doing beta, will check that out now.
 
I had a saddler try to keep a £500 deposit for a £1000 saddle off the peg wintec as I decieded I didn't want it with 24hours. I spoke to beta and they told me as it wasn't made to order there was no reason to keep my deposit. I had a cheque arrive a few weeks after contacting them.
 
There's not much money in it and all commissioned based.

However.,,, I do feel that if you loved horses enough you would fit a well fitting saddle and looked after your customer.

I am truly flabbergasted for want of a better word!
 
I just think it is a pretty shocking situation to have been left in. I do understand that the saddle is now second hand BUT it has not changed its fit so drastically in the short time you have had it to mean it was fitted correctly in the first place! Ergo the lack of professional "reasonable care" in the fitting has caused this problem. The saddle fitter has to take the loss not the client!!! The whole point of using a saddle fitter is that they are a professional who knows what they are doing, a badly fitting saddle is therefore their responsibility not yours. This is what being a professional is all about!

If I had made someone a set of dentures that were so poorly fitting, I would pay out of my own pocket the lab costs of a brand new set, and the bad set would go in the bin (they are custom made and therefore don't even have a second hand value like the saddle would if she took it back). I would never even get to the point of charging the patient and would be apologising profusely for the time they would need to give up in further appointments to re-do the work. At the end of it I would be significantly out of pocket and would have to chalk it down to MY experience and take responsibility for not having done my job properly.

If as a professional you care about your clients and reputation you own up to your mistakes and do whatever it takes to put them right. Keep pressing for a refund and get trading standards involved if you are not getting anywhere. When I had to call them about work done in my house they were really fantastic and supportive behind the scenes.
 
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Sorry I haven't sent you photos yet. Have photos of his back but not with saddle on so will pm you them.

Hope you can get this sorted.
 
yay well done :D

What about the new leather flexEE ? I know you said someone had tried one on him and you didnt like it but the leather ones are very different as they have a gullet plate and wool flocked panels.
 
I think to start with I'm going to just go to another saddle fitter and try lots of different saddles they offer me. I think I'm going to end up having to buy a jump and a dressage as there just isn't a GP saddle that accommodates my abnormal legs!

If that fails and I can't find anything suitable I will look into different types such as flexee etc.
 
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