For Welshie fans...

[palo1]

It seems to be a bit of a feature, having a Welshie, that one participates in the niche sport of discussing hugely lengthy and convoluted pedigrees with anyone prepared to listen...I never thought I was that sort of person but have just had that conversation with a great friend As most Welshies share similar common ancestors it is essentially a family affair to identify how your/my Welshie is related to my/your Welshie. Then everyone goes home happy that they have the family tree clarified. As I was delving into my mares family later on this morning I found out two really lovely bits of information - 1 that both of my horses (A Welsh D and an Arab x Appaloosa) both go all the way back to Godolphin Arabian (my Arab x also has Darley Arabian in his line on both parents side) and 2) That my mare's line includes horses whose names were 'Cauliflower' , Brussels and Sprouts (in fact Cauliflower was out of Brussels and by Sprouts lol). One of my most admired breeds (an early improver) in my mare's line was an imported Arab/Barb horse. (Crawshay Arabian). I don't really expect anyone to reply to this but I was really tickled by these nuggets of breeding information and wanted to share!!

 

[milliepops]

how funny
I just went back picking random names in Kira's and quite a few dried up with Arabians, including the Darley and Godolphin and the Byerley Turk, lol! found them via a hackney included in the 1880s.
Until I got her I'd never had a horse with a properly recorded pedigree. TBH I'm useless at breeding knowledge but it's fun to click around

 

[milliepops]

I've got Sprouts, Broccoli and Cauliflower too

 

[Blanche]

I love the weird names that pop up in old pedigrees. The Yellow Dwarf is one of my favourite names.

https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/the+yellow+dwarf

 

[palo1]

I've got Sprouts, Broccoli and Cauliflower too

Does that make us 'cobs-in-law' then?!! There is just a whole line of Welsh horses now needing to be re-registered with vegetable based names....Avocado anyone??!

 

[milliepops]

Does that make us 'cobs-in-law' then?!! There is just a whole line of Welsh horses now needing to be re-registered with vegetable based names....Avocado anyone??!

ahh i know a spanish nicknamed avocado i think that's taken. I'm saying that we've done the brassicas, time to go for the root veg.

 

[palo1]

ahh i know a spanish nicknamed avocado i think that's taken. I'm saying that we've done the brassicas, time to go for the root veg.

Mmm well it is a running joke in this household that whilst my horse's name is formally M Alw, due to her current figure we should take the translation not from the Welsh but from Hindi where Alw - pronounced Aloo of course means potato. I have always wanted a horse called parsnip though as I love them Beans is nice...

 

[HashRouge]

I didn't have the patience to delve into mine's pedigree too much, but looking him up on Allbreedpedigree has just reminded me how many times he has Nebo Black Magic in his family tree. No wonder he's an absolute fruit loop - he's incredibly inbred!

 

[palo1]

I didn't have the patience to delve into mine's pedigree too much, but looking him up on Allbreedpedigree has just reminded me how many times he has Nebo Black Magic in his family tree. No wonder he's an absolute fruit loop - he's incredibly inbred!

I really don't know enough about Welsh cob breeding - nor what the recommended co-efficient is for horse breeding generally!! Perhaps your chap is lacking cauliflower, brussels and sprouts!!

 

[conniegirl]

Just looked up my lad, who is suprisingly not very inbred at all for a welsh.
Most amusing name i have found so far was a mare called Brown

eta also found cauliflower and Darley arabian.

 

[palo1]

Just looked up my lad, who is suprisingly not very inbred at all for a welsh.
Most amusing name i have found so far was a mare called Brown

eta also found cauliflower and Darley arabian.

'Brown'' s line is interesting actually - it seems that through both her dam-line (through Currycomb (a TB) and his granddam (Curiosity) and her sire's line (Herod et al) she had Byerly Turk, Godlophin Arabian and Darley Arabian as well as several imported Barb horses in her ancestry. It's a plain name for a fancy family We have her too . She was pretty important at the time!

 

[milliepops]

We have Brown too,bless her and her plain name ?

 

[conniegirl]

'Brown'' s line is interesting actually - it seems that through both her dam-line (through Currycomb (a TB) and his granddam (Curiosity) and her sire's line (Herod et al) she had Byerly Turk, Godlophin Arabian and Darley Arabian as well as several imported Barb horses in her ancestry. It's a plain name for a fancy family We have her too . She was pretty important at the time!

You can very definitely see the arab in my lad, have been asked if he were a partbred a few times

 

[DirectorFury]

Mad has a Brown, a Bay Mare, and one called Poll about 15 times . Plus one called Gin! She should share a fair of bit ancestry with yours Palo as she's got Maesmynach lines (not the prefix, long story) and grew up in their herd.

 

[conniegirl]

Love the name Gin!

this is my lads breeding if anyone is Interested.
https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kirkhamgate+mr+cool

 

[HashRouge]

I really don't know enough about Welsh cob breeding - nor what the recommended co-efficient is for horse breeding generally!! Perhaps your chap is lacking cauliflower, brussels and sprouts!!

Genuinely gutted I can't find those three! He does have "Brown" quite a few times though - clearly more important than the name suggests! I've also found the brilliant named "Trotting Railway I" and "Trotting Railway II".

Has anyone else found quite a few hackneys when you go back a bit?

ETA I just found Cauliflower et al - I wasn't going back far enough!

 

[milliepops]

Genuinely gutted I can't find those three! He does have "Brown" quite a few times though - clearly more important than the name suggests! I've also found the brilliant named "Trotting Railway I" and "Trotting Railway II".

Has anyone else found quite a few hackneys when you go back a bit?

ETA I just found Cauliflower et al - I wasn't going back far enough!

Yep it was the hackneys that led me to the holy grail arabs

 

[TwyfordM]

Genuinely gutted I can't find those three! He does have "Brown" quite a few times though - clearly more important than the name suggests! I've also found the brilliant named "Trotting Railway I" and "Trotting Railway II".

Has anyone else found quite a few hackneys when you go back a bit?

ETA I just found Cauliflower et al - I wasn't going back far enough!

Yep, Darley, godolphin and byerly turk, along with some barbs, hackney's etc... In Welsh a pedigree ?
Obviously shrunk down the Arab overtime ?

 

[McFluff]

Thanks for sharing another way to spend time!
I’ve found TB, Arabs, Hackney and trotters.
Some of the names are amazing, but the broccoli sprouts and cauliflower combo is the best.
Also found that Nebo black magic is there six times in his fifth gen...

 

[ester]

It's interesting to see how chunky some of the old hackney lines were.

 

[BeckyFlowers]

Mine not only has Trotting Railway I and Trotting Railway II, but also Old Trotting Railway! There's a Fanny in there somewhere too.

He's so terribly inbred - Parc Welsh Flyer got around a bit. It explains a lot.

 

[palo1]

You can very definitely see the arab in my lad, have been asked if he were a partbred a few times
View attachment 48669

He is lovely!! I was quite surprised too to find as many barbs in the Welsh lines I looked at. I don't know a lot about Welsh breeding especially not the distant history but I had always thought that the early improvements were almost entirely arab and I didn't know about the injection of TB or Barb blood. I am clearly being sucked into Welsh cob breeding nerd-dom

 

[palo1]

Genuinely gutted I can't find those three! He does have "Brown" quite a few times though - clearly more important than the name suggests! I've also found the brilliant named "Trotting Railway I" and "Trotting Railway II".

Has anyone else found quite a few hackneys when you go back a bit?

ETA I just found Cauliflower et al - I wasn't going back far enough!

Yes, the hackney lines are interesting and I know literally nothing about Hackneys which means I will now be on a quest to find out about where they came from. I wonder if they may have originally come from something Welsh, then improved then put back to Welsh lines but that is just speculation...something to do with their action!!

I like the Trotting Railway names too. Clearly the names Comet and Flyer were popular over many years and there are some fantastic names in there. It's fun....!!!

 

[palo1]

Yep it was the hackneys that led me to the holy grail arabs

I found the arabs through the Brown line...but I also found 2 brilliant horses in Browns history: Dee Doo Lady - an Andalusian from 1799 and Rumbleford Mister Meaner (1790) who has no parentage recorded but he must have been well thought of to have such a fab name. (It still sounds like it could be used today ) Thank goodness I have an arena and instructor booked this morning or I could lose hours today...

 

[Errin Paddywack]

My sister bought a 3/4 tb filly back in the mid 60's. She got really into researching the pedigree and managed to trace her back to all three foundation arabs. It was fascinating. She was out of a mare by Warwick who was either a son or grandson of Hyperion. Hyperion was only a small horse (like her mare) and had a habit apparently of stopping to gaze at the view. Her mare did exactly the same. Pedigrees are fascinating.

 

[blodwyn1]

Hackneys had a lot of their ancestry from norfolk trotters a breed long gone. The prince of wales cup was introduced at the royal welsh to try and encourage pure welsh breeding. The welsh stud book only opened in 1901 so a lot of early cobs were registered as hackneys. After the second world war the no of cobs were dangerously low so the foundation stock scheme was introduced to identify true to type mares which were entered in the stud book appendice. FS,FS1 and FS2 and then could go in the main studbook if they bred a filly so it took 3 generations. I had a FS2 mare foaled in 1986 her grand sire on the dams side was a tb called embarkation . You will find nebo black magic etc multiple times in pedigrees as the gene pool was limited after the war. Also up to about the early fifties section c went up to 14.2hh.

 

[J&S]

My coloured mare's Great great grandfather was Hyperion and Great great great grandfather was Gainsborough.
I think Gainsborough was the prettiest little TB ever.

My sister bought a 3/4 tb filly back in the mid 60's. She got really into researching the pedigree and managed to trace her back to all three foundation arabs. It was fascinating. She was out of a mare by Warwick who was either a son or grandson of Hyperion. Hyperion was only a small horse (like her mare) and had a habit apparently of stopping to gaze at the view. Her mare did exactly the same. Pedigrees are fascinating.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I love the weird names that pop up in old pedigrees. The Yellow Dwarf is one of my favourite names.

https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/the+yellow+dwarf

Jeff's dad was Le Nain Juane - The Yellow Dwarf! Not the same one as above but a French horse.


My Welsh Cob isn't actually very inbred at all - amazingly gor a D!

Neither is GrayMo. You need yo go back 5 generations to find Native Dancer twice but that's it.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

Mine has ......

x4 Nebo Black Magic
x3 Brynymor Welsh Magic
x3 Mathrafal
x2 Derwen Black Magic

Never fails to make me wonder what they were thinking whether I look through it all Oh & he goes back to 'Brown' too.

 

[ester]

Frank has a few 2x 4th generation back which is fairly outbred for a welsh