Friction with another livery client

[TheRedMare]

Hi,

I've been wondering whether or not to post this as I'm concerned about those involved finding the post, but I'm in desperate need of advice. I will try to be as impartial as possible and just jot down the facts so that hopefully all are shown fairly here. No names of horses or people in the post.

I have paid livery on an empty stable for a few months to hold my space as our gelding needed to move on to a new home. Livery fee has always been paid on time to the land owner (lovely gentleman). One lady is in charge of the yard as yard manager but is not employed as a YM - she is point of contact.

There's only three of us there and trouble began when I let them know I'd be bringing a new horse up there to replace my gelding (all okay as per ongoing contract for stable). There is some friction over my new horse being a mare. There are three stables with one entry door in the middle and half-walls between them. One more stable is separate on the end of the block with its own door, full wall. We were asked to move into the end stable so that there was a gap between our mare and one gelding as there were concerns about the new mare harassing the gelding - no problem. The gelding is in the pony stable (still a nice size) and she is on the end in a large stable. The stable between them is also a large one. We've set it all up and it seemed okay.

Since setting up the yard for her arrival and having her there, our stuff has been frequently moved around, items of ours have been thrown over the wall into our mare's bed and the livery client has mostly refused to speak to us. I've tried to be polite, friendly and civil throughout, but she says she doesn't like my attitude. I'd like us all to get along okay for the yard (maybe I need to say this to her as I haven't clearly said so).

She has noted a problem with our mare reaching over to her gelding when she leads him in to his stable, if she is already in (the middle stable is empty and they are on opposing ends of the three-block). I've solved this by ensuring our mare only comes in after her gelding so they are separate, although I have not seen aggressive behaviour (of course, aggressive behaviour could have happened when I wasn't there, but nobody has informed me of any either). There seems to be dislike over me using the empty middle stable for storage (rugs, hay/straw for next morning etc) but I have confirmed that she is only paying a fee for one stable and does not rent both so it is free to use for sensible storage (don't block doorways etc). My mare goes out separate to the geldings on the other side of the electric fence and seems to enjoy being near them. My mare has been left out on her own when this client has brought both geldings in together.

With this background (I hope I've given the facts clearly), we have been told that the livery client is moving into the middle stable and we need to stop the mare from getting at the gelding. I'm...a little confused. I'm assuming they want to put up some kind of barricade against the half wall and put a top door on the interior stable door so she cannot see the pony or touch him over the wall. Alternatively, they could put a wall across the middle stable, making it smaller, so she can not reach across to the gelding either...but then the middle stable will be the same size as the gelding's current stable and I'm not sure I'm seeing the logic?

As there is existing tension, I'm concerned about stirring things up more. Is there logic here that I'm missing or is there another way I could be looking at this? It kept me up last night thinking she's going to be shut in away from everything, she loves hanging her head over the wall and interacting with the pony from her own stable and they seem quite comfortable (again, this is only from what I've seen).

Is there a solution I'm missing? I've tried to be as factual as possible. I'm not sure what I've done to upset this client as I kept her in the loop with what was happening until she unfortunately blocked my contact details (then I kept in loop by texting YM so everyone was aware of horse arrival plans). I did spill some straw on the way to the muck heap on the grass this week because of the wind and we have been working on our trailer on the yard when the horses are out and no one else is there. Our mare has bitten the wood in the stable (stressed on arrival) but I have already chatted with the land owner how we're going to go about fixing it and the problem is resolved. I can't honestly think of anything else I could have done except for be there. I've fixed their fencing when the wind's been bad and left a new year's present of chocolates for each of them with a card. I keep my areas as well swept as possible and tidy, but I doubt they are completely spotless.

Does anyone have any insight on the issue I'm worried about (stabling) or anything at all on the overall situation? Is there something I'm missing that I may have done to aggravate people that I could rectify?

I appreciate all replies as I really want to put things right again.

(I really hope that this is okay to post as I'm really feeling at a loss and losing sleep over how to put this right!)

 

[ihatework]

I’m struggling to visualise the stable configuration so can’t offer any practical solutions on that.

What I would say though is that some people are just awkward! They will get a bee in their bonnet over something, usually linked to their own jealously/insecurities and it leaves the other party wondering what hell is wrong.

It sounds like you are trying hard to be nice (maybe too hard?), so I would have a chat with the yard manager and try and put you point across that you are happy to accommodate most things but that your mare being able to see out etc is non negotiable. Be nicely assertive about it. Ask livery what they propose they want to do.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the other livery to not want your horse hanging her head directly over wall into their stable though

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Has the other livery been there longer by any chance? I wonder if you've inadvertently ruffled feathers by her having to move her horse to the smaller stable and then using the other stable to store your stuff in.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Oh my goodness - my initial reaction is to tell you to tell them to take a hike! FFS!!

But I doubt that is very helpful so I'll try and offer something more constructive. But I do think they are walking all over you!

1). Were you told you were only allowed to replace 1 gelding with another when your gelding left? If not, well tough. They can't now complain
2) Assuming the above is a no - you have no obligation to move your mare or shut her in or leave her out till last or anything else. There is a horse who goes for Ginny as we walk past his stable. So when I lead her in I carry a rope and swing it as I pass to move him back (not hitting him just warning him to back off). Problem solved.
3) The YM should state whether empty stables can be used for storage or not. And if so how equitable access to the storage space can be arranged.
4) You can be as tidy or untidy as the YM decrees! Nothing to do with another livery. Similarly any wear and tear is between you and the YM. Nothing to do with another livery.

I don't understand the configuration of the stables either but if she does not want the mare to access the gelding from stable to stable then don;t move him!

I think you should speak to the YM and state you fail to understand the issue pr the proposed 'solutions' with your mare. That you have no intention of depriving your mare of space, company and freedom. AND you are being bullied by another livery and can she please sort it out!

Sorry you are in this situation.

 

[OldFogie]

If you are affected by this kind of thing and have no alternative to shared DIY livery - give up! It will be the same where ever you go!

I have been largely immune from such problems because 1/ I'm a bloke and 2/ I was done and dusted before anyone else was awake.

Most tackrooms are hotbeds of seething disgruntlement - you don't have to do anything to engender disapproval - breathing is quite sufficient and much of it down to the green eye of jealousy. Kit disappears, feed bins reduce, etc., I've even known the coffee sugar to be sabotaged and poo in the kettle.

Get your own place or do as many women I've known did - find a bloke who'll buy you one.

 

[AFB]

I'm also struggling to work out the layout so can't offer any practical advise, however having been on a few yards you soon come to realise that some people are just awkward, and best avoided. Tricky on a small yard.

You definitely need to speak to the YM about how this is going to affect your stable as she needs some form of access to the outside world, be it a half door to the outside, or a half wall to next door, I doubt any horse would be happy entirely shut in overnight.

Your YM sounds helpful so hopefully it can be resolved, if not, there are plenty of other yards out there once you start looking.

 

[HeyMich]

I think some people are just a bit odd with mares. There is one livery yard near us that doesn't take mares at all! That's half of their potential clients discounted immediately!! I really don't understand their attitude. My mare wouldn't say boo to a goose, and is probably the calmest and friendliest horse at the yard (ok, so occasionally when in season she can be a bit grumpy, but aren't we all?)

Maybe their gelding has only recently been done and she's worried about him catching your mare?

I would carry on as normal, but make it clear to the YM that some of the proposed changes simply are not acceptable.

 

[Damnation]

So I have 2 mares, one of which I have nicknamed "jaws". She tries to eat my other mare (who is always in last) when she comes in at night. Infact, nearly every horse that poor mare walks past tries to eat her. We tell off at the time but it isn't something easy to stop and you just get over yourself and get on with it.

Secondly, regarding the "friction", horsey people can be utter bitches. Personally? If I could cope with the atmosphere I would just be overly perky to this woman. "Good morning X! What a beautiful day!" with a big smile. It sounds like you have tried to talk to this woman and she has given no real reason to dislike you so personally I would either be overly perky or just ignore her.

If both of the stables are the same size I would personally offer to swap so that her gelding doesn't have to walk past your mare, meaning your mare won't be shut in.

 

[Ambers Echo]

If you are affected by this kind of thing and have no alternative to shared DIY livery - give up! It will be the same where ever you go!

Luckily this is not true! Sadly it is common. I moved onto a small yard and the Head Girl and her Prefects made my life miserable from day 1. Moving my horse from field to field without telling me, chucking my rugs on the floor in the drying room because I was using 'their' space (there were no allocated spaces), complaining endlessly about every last thing I or my horse did. I moved off and have been on 2 lovely yards since then. The key I think is a YM who won't tolerate it and isn't afraid to sling trouble makers off if they carry on after warnings.

 

[TheRedMare]

I’m struggling to visualise the stable configuration so can’t offer any practical solutions on that.

What I would say though is that some people are just awkward! They will get a bee in their bonnet over something, usually linked to their own jealously/insecurities and it leaves the other party wondering what hell is wrong.

It sounds like you are trying hard to be nice (maybe too hard?), so I would have a chat with the yard manager and try and put you point across that you are happy to accommodate most things but that your mare being able to see out etc is non negotiable. Be nicely assertive about it. Ask livery what they propose they want to do.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the other livery to not want your horse hanging her head directly over wall into their stable though

Hi, there's actually one full stable between them currently. She has said she's moving into the middle stable, which will put only one half-wall between them and then, yes, would allow my mare to put her head over into his stable.

 

[DabDab]

Sounds like a very silly situation and I feel for you.

Personally I would speak to the YM-type person and just say that you are a little confused and are wanting to get stuff sorted this weekend for the stable change so could she just run through what needs doing with you so that you can make notes.

That's what nice me would do anyway... Cynical me on the other hand suspects that this other livery is getting a power trip on making you bend to her every whim and will keep pushing and pushing with ever more ridiculous demands until you tell her to rack off.

 

[TheRedMare]

Has the other livery been there longer by any chance? I wonder if you've inadvertently ruffled feathers by her having to move her horse to the smaller stable and then using the other stable to store your stuff in.

I think she moved there in October and she helps out the YM in the afternoons/evenings with her own gelding. She chose her own stable though as he's only a little pony and then stored her belongings in the middle (large) stable. I used to have the middle stable as my gelding would also bite the wood (monster boy...) but was asked to move to the end.

 

[ihatework]

Hi, there's actually one full stable between them currently. She has said she's moving into the middle stable, which will put only one half-wall between them and then, yes, would allow my mare to put her head over into his stable.

Maybe say if she feels the need to move the horse into middle then she will need to make the wall full height (I assume there is a stable door your horse can still look out over?)
Maybe suggest metal bar dividers? Take a look at American barn internal dividers, they can still see around them but cannot hang head over.

 

[meleeka]

Hi, there's actually one full stable between them currently. She has said she's moving into the middle stable, which will put only one half-wall between them and then, yes, would allow my mare to put her head over into his stable.

Do you know why she wants to move stables?

 

[TheRedMare]

Oh my goodness - my initial reaction is to tell you to tell them to take a hike! FFS!!

But I doubt that is very helpful so I'll try and offer something more constructive. But I do think they are walking all over you!

1). Were you told you were only allowed to replace 1 gelding with another when your gelding left? If not, well tough. They can't now complain
2) Assuming the above is a no - you have no obligation to move your mare or shut her in or leave her out till last or anything else. There is a horse who goes for Ginny as we walk past his stable. So when I lead her in I carry a rope and swing it as I pass to move him back (not hitting him just warning him to back off). Problem solved.
3) The YM should state whether empty stables can be used for storage or not. And if so how equitable access to the storage space can be arranged.
4) You can be as tidy or untidy as the YM decrees! Nothing to do with another livery. Similarly any wear and tear is between you and the YM. Nothing to do with another livery.

I don't understand the configuration of the stables either but if she does not want the mare to access the gelding from stable to stable then don;t move him!

I think you should speak to the YM and state you fail to understand the issue pr the proposed 'solutions' with your mare. That you have no intention of depriving your mare of space, company and freedom. AND you are being bullied by another livery and can she please sort it out!

Sorry you are in this situation.

1.) My contract is applicable to a mare or a gelding with no exclusion and I checked this before confirming that I wanted to buy my mare.
2.) I'm perfectly okay with them telling my mare to "BACK" or reinforcing the aid with a swinging rope or push on her chest (whatever sensible) as she has plenty of space to move into. I don't mind bringing her in last though.
3.) I should ask about this at the weekend - thank you. I only confirmed with the land owner.
4.) I haven't had any comments from YM about my tidiness and she very kindly puts my mare out next door to the boys in the morning so she goes through my area or where my mess would be.

Unfortunately the YM is good friends with this livery so I'm hesitant to raise it with her... But I am going to once I can find the right words (in person at weekend). I don't want to sound like I'm stirring trouble but rather trying to find a positive solution so everyone is happy.

 

[Charlie007]

Not quite the same but I used to have two horses on livery. Each livery had a stable for their horse and a spare stable for storage. So I had four stables , 2 for the horse's and 2 for storage. There was one livery who kicked up a stink saying I should only have 3 stables as all m stuff could
Go in one spare stable. Yes it could but as I was paying for 2 horses then I used what I was paying for!! Hope you can resolve thus and enjoy your new horse x

 

[TheRedMare]

If you are affected by this kind of thing and have no alternative to shared DIY livery - give up! It will be the same where ever you go!

I have been largely immune from such problems because 1/ I'm a bloke and 2/ I was done and dusted before anyone else was awake.

Most tackrooms are hotbeds of seething disgruntlement - you don't have to do anything to engender disapproval - breathing is quite sufficient and much of it down to the green eye of jealousy. Kit disappears, feed bins reduce, etc., I've even known the coffee sugar to be sabotaged and poo in the kettle.

Get your own place or do as many women I've known did - find a bloke who'll buy you one.

Haha oh bless you! You did make me giggle and I needed that! Unfortunately it's been me who's been paying for the trouble with our lovely gelding and my partner who's mostly been doing the labour while I earn the extra money to do right by our boy.

I am there before everyone else in the morning so that is something at least and it is possible for me to minimise our interaction (beyond cheery/happy "hi, nice weather!" as I bustle about doing jobs in the evening. This is one reason I enjoy the otherwise peace of the yard so, so much.

 

[ester]

I would also say it could be all turned around, she is the one moving a horse, so she is responsible for modifying the stable to prevent contact with your mare.

It seems to me that this livery has only been there when you have not had a horse, and therefore has gotten used to having this block of three, and the spare stable to herself, and has decided she doesn't like sharing.

Regardless of their friendship I would certainly speak to the YM about this was it she who told you that you had to sort something to prevent contact after the move?

 

[TheRedMare]

I'm also struggling to work out the layout so can't offer any practical advise, however having been on a few yards you soon come to realise that some people are just awkward, and best avoided. Tricky on a small yard.

You definitely need to speak to the YM about how this is going to affect your stable as she needs some form of access to the outside world, be it a half door to the outside, or a half wall to next door, I doubt any horse would be happy entirely shut in overnight.

Your YM sounds helpful so hopefully it can be resolved, if not, there are plenty of other yards out there once you start looking.

She would still have a small window to look out, but it is quite small for her size horse. I wish I could show a drawing of the stable layout.

You enter from the yard on the middle stable (large). There is one large one on the right accessible through a half-door in the dividing wall of the middle stable. There is one small one on the left accessible through another half-door. The left and right stables are only accessed through the middle stable. All have small windows. Middle stable has top and bottom doors.

 

[TheRedMare]

I think some people are just a bit odd with mares. There is one livery yard near us that doesn't take mares at all! That's half of their potential clients discounted immediately!! I really don't understand their attitude. My mare wouldn't say boo to a goose, and is probably the calmest and friendliest horse at the yard (ok, so occasionally when in season she can be a bit grumpy, but aren't we all?)

Maybe their gelding has only recently been done and she's worried about him catching your mare?

I would carry on as normal, but make it clear to the YM that some of the proposed changes simply are not acceptable.

Is there any way you can think to put it that I'm not happy with those proposed changes? I'm trying to get the language right without coming off over the top.

The gelding has not recently been gelded, although I'm not sure how old he is. I believe he was previously on a mixed yard, but I don't know what that yard looked like.

 

[ester]

that does make sense, I've know a few old stables set like that, and would mean I would be very reluctant to make any alterations!

 

[Ambers Echo]

Then surely the middle stable can only be for storage? Or kept clear for access. Or only used by someone with a herd of 3 to they can always move them in and out to suit themselves. I would not want to have to lead my horse THROUGH another horse's stable to get to my own? That's ridiculous.

 

[Caramac71]

So there's 3 stables together with half walls, and a 4th stable that is separate from these? Would it be an option to swap and put your mare in the stable on her own, as presumably the 2 geldings would be ok next to each other if they are turned out together?

 

[TheRedMare]

So I have 2 mares, one of which I have nicknamed "jaws". She tries to eat my other mare (who is always in last) when she comes in at night. Infact, nearly every horse that poor mare walks past tries to eat her. We tell off at the time but it isn't something easy to stop and you just get over yourself and get on with it.

Secondly, regarding the "friction", horsey people can be utter bitches. Personally? If I could cope with the atmosphere I would just be overly perky to this woman. "Good morning X! What a beautiful day!" with a big smile. It sounds like you have tried to talk to this woman and she has given no real reason to dislike you so personally I would either be overly perky or just ignore her.

If both of the stables are the same size I would personally offer to swap so that her gelding doesn't have to walk past your mare, meaning your mare won't be shut in.

Jaws is such a funny nickname! Cheered me up a bit! <3

Unfortunately her stable is the smallest (as it's the pony stable) and it's not possible for us to swap. As I do everything before anyone else is there in the morning, I only see her after work if we happen to be there at the same time and I try to be as pleasant as possible between doing my evening chores.

 

[HeyMich]

She would still have a small window to look out, but it is quite small for her size horse. I wish I could show a drawing of the stable layout.

You enter from the yard on the middle stable (large). There is one large one on the right accessible through a half-door in the dividing wall of the middle stable. There is one small one on the left accessible through another half-door. The left and right stables are only accessed through the middle stable. All have small windows. Middle stable has top and bottom doors.

So, let me get this right... You would have to take your horse THROUGH the other livery's stable to reach yours? That's mental. And absolutely not acceptable, seeing as she is the one with the no-contact requirement. I'd tell her to (politely) jog on...

 

[TheRedMare]

So there's 3 stables together with half walls, and a 4th stable that is separate from these? Would it be an option to swap and put your mare in the stable on her own, as presumably the 2 geldings would be ok next to each other if they are turned out together?

No, the gelding in the separate stable has been there for many, many years and belongs to the YM. He's a lovely lad.

 

[ihatework]

So, let me get this right... You would have to take your horse THROUGH the other livery's stable to reach yours? That's mental. And absolutely not acceptable, seeing as she is the one with the no-contact requirement. I'd tell her to (politely) jog on...

Mental! Stand your ground. If the YO is approachable have a quiet word with them

 

[emfen1305]

Sorry you are going through this, I appreciate how stressful it can be, especially when other parties are being awkward. I am on a medium sized DIY yard and in an awkward stable (it is in a corner and the stable next to it is also in the corner meaning if you can't open both doors at the same time). He's had mares and geldings next to him and all have been fine until last year a new livery bought a new horse, a huge chestnut mare with a neck the size of a giraffe who lived up to aaaaalll of the stereotypes and made my poor gelding's life hell, he couldn't even approach his door without her attacking him and everyday I would come down and there would be another bite mark on his face or a cut from where he had pulled back quickly and hit his head. I asked the girl to get a weave grill to stop her from coming so far over and she refused, I asked non-horsey YO and she told me I would have to buy one too to make it fair, I was annoyed but willing to compromise and then when I kept asking when the other livery was going to get one, she rang YO and said I was bullying her (I would not say boo to a goose so got quite upset). I ended up putting up a tarp in the corner and she moved the horse out a day later. Luckily I have been there long enough now to feel like I can have a bit more of a say in who goes in there, Toby adores the little gelding that is in there at the moment but I do worry constantly about what will what will happen if she moves out!

I guess what I am trying to say is, as a lot of others have, are some liveries are just damn awkward, I have known liveries to constantly harass people, making wild accusations and demands for someone else to do something until they got so fed up and left, and then do it again with the next person, which sounds a bit like what she is trying to do.. I hope you manage to resolve it!

 

[TheRedMare]

There's been so many replies so quickly - I really appreciate all the thoughts.

I do love the yard otherwise, the grazing is lovely and it's peaceful and secluded. The stable configuration is a bit odd, but I'm used to having to go through another horse's stable from the yard where I started working when I'm a lot younger, it doesn't worry me. If it can be avoided though, that's ideal in all situations. There is a house right behind the stables and the people there keep an eye on them and the land owner also lives on site. There's space to store tack and feed and a yard kettle to use. Also a hay barn to store hay and straw nice and dry, access to hacking across a field.

I think I'd be okay with bars on the stable wall to extend it up (still leaves the problem of the half-door between stables) as then she'd still be able to see and be stimulated/have company, but I have gotten the impression that they want me to do something to "keep the mare away from him". I could be wrong here.

You're all right and I need to speak to the YM... Just the right words as I don't want to come off as if I have an attitude, but I'm struggling to try and keep everyone happy while I feel like I'm in the dark on what is wanted/needed or well...maybe doing a bit too much?

 

[WandaMare]

The problem with this sort of dispute is that as soon as you resolve the stable issue (having spent nights awake with your brain in overdrive) the grumpy woman will find another big issue to throw at you. She sounds very territorial, and maybe jealous of your new horse? Does she have some inappropriate opinion / disapproval about why your gelding has moved away? She sounds like a bully and the only way to stop that going on is to confront her and ask her what her problem is. She won't like that because she will know that her answer is going to sound silly.

I think if you are doing anything wrong it sounds as though you are being way too nice and accommodating, she is feeling in control of you and you need to bite back, set some boundaries with her and stand your ground. Is there anywhere else you could move your mare to, the combination of a bully livery who's friends with the YM doesn't sound a pleasant set-up.